Originally Posted by addabox
As this thread demonstrates, the right doesn't really have anywhere to go with their "liberal" scare rhetoric, this election.
They've had the dial at 11, at "OMFG!!!Most!Liberal!Ever!Commie!Socialist!Mostest !Ever!Evar!!!!!", for so long that it's just background noise at this point.
Uh, except he's shown he's exactly that liberal. It's reality, not noise. This goes to my point as well...that being any criticism of Obama is automatically dismissed as a right wing smear. So now we can't talk about who he is, NOR his political beliefs. The Fairy Tale continues.
Trouble being, the American people agree with Obama,
No, they don't. They agree with the marketing campaign of Change! They don't agree with him at all.
and all the Republicans have is trying to convince them that he's something far more sinister than "liberal", that is, a black liberal with some kind of kill whitey secret agenda.
There it is! The race card. Congrats. Tell me..which Republicans are campaigning on race, and how?
What I believe we have here is an extremist, minority ideology that managed, post 9/11, to convince itself that it was mainstream.
You might as well be talking about the Democrats. They did exactly that...by lying about what they really stand for, just like they have for 30 years.
Now they've lost the knack for toning it down a bit, when speaking to the country at large, and the American people are being treated to a lot of highly unflattering shrieking and gibbering that is manifestly at odds with reality.
Well, you know what the antidote to that is, don't you...CHANGE!
SDW, is there anyway we could take up a collection to send you on a nationwide tour, explaining your misgivings? You, and any of your like-minded friends? Nothing will ensure Obama's election more surely than a full-on dose of "Can you believe it? The American worker deserves better? What a bunch of liberal crap! What a bunch of commies! Or fascists! Both! Everything bad! Stop laughing!"
Or maybe we could actually explore Obama's beliefs, record and proposals instead of giving him a free ride by just about the entire MSM.
Originally Posted by Flounder
SDW, the point is when you quote without giving the link, people have to go hunting if they want to read the whole story, and context that may be left out of your snippets. Since you had the quotes, clearly you could have provided the actual links, with minimal to no extra effort. It leaves the impression that you're intentionally making it more difficult for people to access the entire story.
In a way, giving the source but not the link is more annoying than if you hadn't given the source at all.
Right...because those quotes don't convey the true meaning? I think what you really mean is "please post the quote in context so I can take it OUT of context, twisting the meaning into exactly the opposite of that which was intended. And don't act like I don't post links, either. I didn't this time. I often do.
Originally Posted by BRussell
First, it was Bush and the Republicans who passed the law making Bush's tax cuts expire so they didn't look as bad on the books.
That's true. Additionally, it gave them an issue to run on next time.
Obama had nothing to do with that. Second, Obama is only going to let the tax cuts on people making over $250,000 expire, which is only about 1% of the population. Third, yeah, it's great to have a free lunch like we've been doing, but sometimes the adults have to come back and put things in order. And only a conservative would consider tax cuts "love."
I'll bet you $100 right now that tax cuts for people like me will expire. "Middle class" will become "those who need it" and the cutoff will be at about $30,000 a year. Just watch.
That's just not accurate. I've been following things pretty closely, and Obama is most definitely not running as a centrist. Sure, a uniter, but that doesn't imply he's not a liberal. Bill Clinton ran ads in 1992 calling himself a new kind of Democrat, saying that he supported the death penalty and the 1991 Iraq war. That's not the campaign Obama is running.
So he's running as a liberal then? He's claiming he wants middle class tax cuts, which of course he doesn't. He's claiming he doesn't support runaway government program spending, which of course he does. What is he running as?
Originally Posted by midwinter
Please show me where Barack Obama has said he is going to raise taxes on the middle class. That was the claim. Ending the Bush tax cuts (which we're just going to have to pay back, eventually) does not necessarily mean that tax rates on the MC will the altered.
Originally Posted by midwinter
Indeed. Salient points:
1) The tax cuts are set to expire in 2010. Period. It is not a question of raising or lowering.
2) Obama wants to let them expire for individuals making over $250K, such as Jube and his middle class pockets.
3) Obama wants to give the MC tax breaks.
4) Obama wants to raise cap gains and dividends taxes.
1. Intellectually dishonest in the extreme. If they expire, my rate goes up...at lot. Certain deductions go away. My taxes (and I am definitely middle income) will go up dramatically. Don't sit there and tell me "it's not really an increase." Shit, you might as well run for office. You sound like the Dems we already have.
2. I'll bet you $100 as well. If Obama gets elected, my taxes as a middle income person WILL go up. I won't; even get into the stupidity of raising the rate on those making that much money.
I won't count my chickens. Bill Clinton campaigned on the same thing. Guess what he did to the middle class?
4. Ohh...an awesome idea. I'm sure no one who is middle class will be affected by that.
What's funny about this is that we're arguing about Obama being a liberal Democrat? Really? You just pointed out that he wants to raise taxes. That's what Democrats do. It's all they know. He's publicly said we need to redistribute wealth in a more equitable way. I mean...not a liberal?
Originally Posted by jimmac
When you don't like the replies you get personal which is just so laughable!
So Obama is a champion of change and the middle class. Given how things are out there I'm still waiting to hear how that's bad.
As for Obama...that's the point: He's not a champion of the middle class. He says he is. He may be a champion for the poor lower middle class...at least that's what he proposes. The proposals won't work, but we'll discuss that another time.