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Study suggests most of Japan not bonkers over iPhone - Page 4

post #121 of 164
As a resident of Japan, I had long been looking forward to the iPhone being released here.

That said, I am uncertain about whether to change providers and go to SoftBank in order to get one.

Changing providers doesn't bother me so much. And with number portability I would be able to keep the same number.

What I am uncertain about is the balance between the features I would lose vs what I would gain with the iPhone.

To be sure, the browser on the iPhone is the best mobile browser by far. It definitely beats any mobile browser on any other cell phone here. And having the iPod features is nice.

But there are things that the existing cell phones here do, which are very useful, that I am not sure I want to give up. For example:

(1) My cell phone has a built in chip that lets me use the phone for all sorts of daily payments. I can use it to get on the train, subway and buses. I can use it to buy stuff at convenience stores and a lot of other places too, including vending machines. It would be a nuisance to not be able to do that any more.

(2) The cell phone camera I currently have is much better than the one in the iPhone. It has higher resolution, auto-focus and it takes videos, which I like doing.

(3) MY cell phone has built-in "one-seg", which is a digital TV broadcast receiver. I don't watch TV much on my cell phone, but it's nice to have when you need it.

I could live without (3). But (1) and (2) would actually be giving up important features that I use all the time.

Plus I really like having a keyboard - though I suspect composing English messages will be easier on the iPhone than it is on the Japanese cell phone keypads. Composing Japanese messages right now is pretty quick and easy. But the phones here are really not designed for composing English messages, and they are actually harder to type in than Japanese messages right now. That would be a plus for the iPhone.

I think I might at least have to wait until the iPhone at least supports the payment chip and a better camera before I make the leap.

And if there is a two year minimum contract required, the thing better be guaranteed for two years!

doug
post #122 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cbswe View Post

The Symbian platform (wich Nokias smartphones use)is probably the most advanced non-asian mobile platform there is, you can install tons and tons of apps, games and emulators, with a very flexible variety of UI, while the iPhone has at least for all apps a rather limited set of UI wich makes all the iPhone apps look the same in a genetic kind of way.

This is a fairly narrow way to define "most advanced platform". You cannot create apps for Symbian like the ones that will soon be available for the iPhone.
post #123 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cbswe View Post

It is bounded to set of UI frameworks

This is so vague as to almost mean nothing. Are you saying the UI is too consistent?


Quote:
Popularity≠Quality

I would say usability which comes from quality software. It is easy to shoot and post pictures from the iPhone.


Quote:
The majority of the current worldwide web content is probably not Flash9-only

Probably not, but Flashlite is basically flash 6/7. Two generations behind.


Quote:
It is still a signature feature of the 3G technology, but I know what you mean

Apple's philosophy is to make a phone that features the most used tools and makes them easy to use. Not to stick in every possible feature you can. Which makes the device less usable over all.


Quote:
I can see how you would find it strange, but once you get started on multi-tasking and using your phone as a laptop you will keep at it and use your RAM memory to the max

My iPhone has mostly taken over all the mobile communications that I used to carry my laptop for. I still don't know a situation that I would need multiple apps on at the same time. Its easy to switch from app to app.
post #124 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cbswe View Post

The Symbian platform (wich Nokias smartphones use)is probably the most advanced non-asian mobile platform there is, you can install tons and tons of apps, games and emulators, with a very flexible variety of UI, while the iPhone has at least for all apps a rather limited set of UI wich makes all the iPhone apps look the same in a genetic kind of way.

The picture quality is better then the iPhones, it is in higher resolution and the Nokia phones come with a flash and Carl Zeiss lenses. I do not own a iPhone so unfortunately I can't take two fotos of the same object with the different cameras, but if I bump into my iPhone-owning friend I'll be sure to do so.

The battery lasts great, I bought my Nokia N95 when it came out over a year ago and it works like it was new, even any battery life shortage is unnoticeable.

The only thing Nokia phones lack is optical zoom, perhaps a little more RAM (for stuff like Quake 2 with Open GL enabled wich only the 8GB version of Nokia N95 can run (however the original N95 can run Quake 1 with Open GL and Quake 2 with software rendering)) and a Nvidia tegra graphics card to top it all off and it'll be perfect.

Actually, Symbian is the least advanced of the phone OS's. Even Nokia understands this, as their best smartphones will be using Linux.
post #125 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

This is so vague as to almost mean nothing. Are you saying the UI is too consistent?

Yes, exactly, its a lot of white-blue-grey or white-black (as in the apple TV menu)


Quote:
I would say usability which comes from quality software. It is easy to shoot and post pictures from the iPhone.

That is true, however Flickr is not nearly as popular worldwide as it is in the US.
Also it is butt-easy to send away your newly taken pics with bluetooth/e-mail/serverupload/nearby wireless printer/mms in symbian as well.

Quote:
Probably not, but Flashlite is basically flash 6/7. Two generations behind.

Flash6/7 > Flashlessness


Quote:
Apple's philosophy is to make a phone that features the most used tools and makes them easy to use. Not to stick in every possible feature you can. Which makes the device less usable over all.

I use the majority of the N95 features, with exeption for some small and unsignifigant tool-apps.


Quote:
My iPhone has mostly taken over all the mobile communications that I used to carry my laptop for. I still don't know a situation that I would need multiple apps on at the same time. Its easy to switch from app to app.

An example where you are more or less required to is when when you have to retrive a new password when you lost yours for a forum login or similar. Without the possibility of multiple apps running, you'd have to close the web app, open the e-mail-app, writhe down the new pass on a pice of paper (since iPhone didn't have copy-paste?), close the mail-app, open upp the web app, return to the same site, login and throw your pice of paper into a nearby trash can.

But that is not a too common situation :P I use it for example to chat with friends on MSN while playing a GBA game or surf or whatever
post #126 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Actually, Symbian is the least advanced of the phone OS's. Even Nokia understands this, as their best smartphones will be using Linux.

Well, Linux is more stable there's no doubt about that, but I still havn't seen any Quake port to iPhone, hah :P

Though I must admit I don't know about the complexity of developing apps and the actual range of features you can put into them when programming for symbian respectively iPhone
post #127 of 164
I hate these seriously compelling article topics and headlines that are ultimately based on completely flawed information.


How is any substantial percentage of Japanese consumers supposed to want this if the phone (a) the phone is not sold there and (b) does not work at all in the country if imported.

Zero word of mouth, zero fascination with the foreign Steve Jobs. Why would you buy the downspec/feature one if you can't see it?

oh and uhhh survey was done BEFORE any 3G announcement.
post #128 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

This is a fairly narrow way to define "most advanced platform". You cannot create apps for Symbian like the ones that will soon be available for the iPhone.

Please back this up with a fact and not an opinion.

Maybe I better dump my Geo-tagging app, or my VoIP apps, Internet streaming radio app,Geo caching app, MSN messenger app, and QUITE a few others to name a few just because, well according to you they will not exist once they "might" be available for the iPhone. Talk about a myopic view of things.
post #129 of 164
When Jobs intro'd the iPhone last year, it was in almost every newspaper in Japan the next day. Even the paper in my tiny little speck of collected dust had a rather large article on it, photo and all.

Now that it has been readied for release here, I'm waiting for Softbank to start its promo. They use Brad Pitt and Cameron Diaz so the ads could be pretty nice. My local Softbank shop knows that it is in the wild, but has not officially heard anything from their home office.

The MacBook Air was on TV here hours after Steve's Keynote this past spring, so Apple had made an effort to get plenty of air time for it. I suspect they'll do the same for iPhone.

 

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post #130 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cbswe View Post

Well, Linux is more stable there's no doubt about that, but I still havn't seen any Quake port to iPhone, hah :P

Though I must admit I don't know about the complexity of developing apps and the actual range of features you can put into them when programming for symbian respectively iPhone

You are confusing the lack of processing power that all phones have with the OS.

Besides, the new iPhone hasn't even come out yet. What are you expecting?

The iPhone is the only phone at this time that has what is essentially a complete computer OS. What was removed has to do with the requirements of the hardware (which has also called for additions), as well as its necessary restrictions.

The only OS's that comes close are Linux phone OS's. Even those are more stripped down than OS X on the iPhone is, with little of the goodies that Apple has.

Also Apple's development environment is far better than any of the others, which you can read about in many places if you want.

I'm willing to bet that after some reasonable time, we will see as much development on the iPhone as we've seen for the other two most developed for platforms so far, the Palm OS, and Windows Mobile.

Given some more time, I'm pretty confident that the iPhone will see more development than either one would ever have. Palm development has slowed down drastically, while Win Mobile has kept to a steady pace. Symbian is well behind those two, and RIM has just opened up the Blackberry to useful development, though the word is that it is nowhere as open or robust as that from any of the others.
post #131 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

Please back this up with a fact and not an opinion.

Maybe I better dump my Geo-tagging app, or my VoIP apps, Internet streaming radio app,Geo caching app, MSN messenger app, and QUITE a few others to name a few just because, well according to you they will not exist once they "might" be available for the iPhone. Talk about a myopic view of things.

Symbian has development, but the number of programs available for it is well behind what is available for Win Mobile and Palm. Of course, here in the US, where Symbian isn't popular, there is just about nothing.
post #132 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I'm willing to bet that after some reasonable time, we will see as much development on the iPhone as we've seen for the other two most developed for platforms so far, the Palm OS, and Windows Mobile.

If I recall correctly, one of the regulars on this board pointed out that Nokia's app store has about 4000-5000 apps already, across about 400-500 developers. Then we hear complaints from people who are not one of the 4000 green-lighted developers for the iPhone.

To me, that is a lot of developers to okay in 12 weeks. If they continue with their same pace there should be just under 6000 developers okayed for the App Store. Within 6 months, I see no reason why App Store won't have a larger selection of 3rd-party apps than all the others mobile platforms combined.
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post #133 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Symbian has development, but the number of programs available for it is well behind what is available for Win Mobile and Palm. Of course, here in the US, where Symbian isn't popular, there is just about nothing.

You might have a point. Considering (I think), that Palm, and WinMobile (in its various incarnations) had a pretty big jump on Symbian, but to say as was posted by TenoBell
Quote:
You cannot create apps for Symbian like the ones that will soon be available for the iPhone.

is just plain wrong. Right now, my Symbian based phone out performs my current iPhone in almost every task. Sooooo, I guess when these applications that only TenoBell seems to know about, all Symbian apps will cease to exist.

Symbian is not popular in the US for the shear short sighted-ness of Nokia. They have admitted not really effectively targeting the US market to their detriment. We will see how things pan out within the next few months. Either way, things should be very promising from a consumer standpoint.
post #134 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

If I recall correctly, one of the regulars on this board pointed out that Nokia's app store has about 4000-5000 apps already, across about 400-500 developers. Then we hear complaints from people who are not one of the 4000 green-lighted developers for the iPhone.

To me, that is a lot of developers to okay in 12 weeks. If they continue with their same pace there should be just under 6000 developers okayed for the App Store. Within 6 months, I see no reason why App Store won't have a larger selection of 3rd-party apps than all the others mobile platforms combined.

I had no idea that there were these many apps for Symbian. Are these S60 v2, or S60 v3?
post #135 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

I had no idea that there were these many apps for Symbian. Are these S60 v2, or S60 v3?

I'm not sure. I think it was JeffDM taht counted them up, but I honestly can't recall.

edit: Here is the store. It's not easy to count the apps or developers as you have to choose your country and then your phone and your carrier before seeing the apps hat are available. I'm sure most are crossover apps but it's too much work to count. I checked the Netherlands and "Norwegia", I can't see ther being 4000 unique apps or 400 developers available so I must have remembered it incorrectly.

Unless there are non-Nokia sanctioned apps that can be installed since it does require you to connect it to a PC first (PITA). Are there really apps that can't be used on certain networks or is the network info just for data collecting?

http://www.download.nokia.com PS: Your comment about S60 v2 and v3 and the different phones on the site makes me wonder which device has the most apps and how much. I also wonder which BB or WinMo or Palm device has the most apps available and how many.

Anyone want to start Wiki pages on the apps avaialble for these different mobile OSes. I'll do the iPhone.... next month.
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post #136 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I'm not sure. I think it was JeffDM taht counted them up, but I honestly can't recall.

edit: Here is the store. It's not easy to count the apps or developers as you have to choose your country and then your phone and your carrier before seeing the apps hat are available. I'm sure most are crossover apps but it's too much work to count. I checked the Netherlands and "Norwegia", I can't see ther being 4000 unique apps or 400 developers available so I must have remembered it incorrectly.

Unless there are non-Nokia sanctioned apps that can be installed since it does require you to connect it to a PC first (PITA). Are there really apps that can't be used on certain networks or is the network info just for data collecting?

http://www.download.nokia.com PS: Your comment about S60 v2 and v3 and the different phones on the site makes me wonder which device has the most apps and how much. I also wonder which BB or WinMo or Palm device has the most apps available and how many.

Anyone want to start Wiki pages on the apps avaialble for these different mobile OSes. I'll do the iPhone.... next month.

Hey solipsism,

If they combine both the S60 v2 and S60 v3, you might get 4000 or so. There are some pretty crappy apps out there. I know for sure that there are plenty of apps no longer developed. When Nokia went to S60 for the E90, all the faxing and several biz apps simply went away. 3G does not support faxing and the E90 does not have a fax capable G3 fax modem installed, so this would take away from the app base. My original statement regarding Symbian was in response to the completely nebulous and inherently wrong statement from TenoBell (
Quote:
You cannot create apps for Symbian like the ones that will soon be available for the iPhone

). All of my apps on my Symbian based phone operate as well as their iPhone counterparts. For the most part, I have more apps on my Nokia than on my iPhone (it is jail broken) and I do not see why Symbian development will not continue to meet the demands of the market.

Also, there are other download sites for Symbian apps. www.handango.com is a leading site as well.
post #137 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

My original statement regarding Symbian was in response to the completely nebulous and inherently wrong statement from TenoBell. All of my apps on my Symbian based phone operate as well as their iPhone counterparts.

The pre-SDK apps for jailbroken iPhones are not a good measure here for comparison and in TenoBell's defense, he did say "soon to be offered on the iPhone. Also, he doesn't not quantify the "like"; he could be referring to the ease of use of the SDK or that they may be higher-quality because they can tap into the power of OS X and it's easy to use UI.

I think the best thing is to do is ask TenoBell to be more specific, but he is replying to Cbswe who is calling it the most advanced platform, so the gist of his post is pretty self evident. Even you wouldn't call Symbian the most advanced platform.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

This is a fairly narrow way to define "most advanced platform". You cannot create apps for Symbian like the ones that will soon be available for the iPhone.

Can you please more specific?
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post #138 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The pre-SDK apps for jailbroken iPhones are not a good measure here for comparison and in TenoBell's defense, he did say "soon to be offered on the iPhone. Also, he doesn't not quantify the "like"; he could be referring to the ease of use of the SDK or that they may be higher-quality because they can tap into the power of OS X and it's easy to use UI.

I think the best thing is to do is ask TenoBell to be more specific, but he is replying to Cbswe who is calling it the most advanced platform, so the gist of his post is pretty self evident. Even you wouldn't call Symbian the most advanced platform.



Can you please more specific?


Thanks dude. I agree. Symbian is great for what it does but I also think that it is running on underpowered hardware. Nokia needs to beef up the processors a bit more. Calculating GPS data, camera data, etc..... is processor intensive. Just for fun, I had my N82's Geocaching app, Nokia Maps, camera, and Geotagging apps open as well as a few other and then I decided to snap a pic. I thought the damn thing would explode. You could almost hear it crashing. Imagine driving in a car, zooming up to 200 and then slam the breaks as you hit a wall. This is almost how it sounded. I truly felt sorry for it. I had to remove the battery to reset it so it would start. Nokia, are you listening out there?
post #139 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

Nokia, are you listening out there?

They did buy that software company in January.

Your anecdote is a perfect example as to why Apple isn't allowing more than one 3rd-party app to run at a time and is using a unified push notification service for users.
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post #140 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

They did buy that software company in January.

Your anecdote is a perfect example as to why Apple isn't allowing more than one 3rd-party app to run at a time and is using a unified push notification service for users.

I think the iPhone could handle this much better do to the processor. I am sure if my N82 had a bit more juice this would not have been an issue. I am not too convinced that Apple will not use your info coming through their servers eventually until they get caught. Do you remember the fiasco they had with iTunes copping user data? Personally, I do not trust anyone that says "hey, I've got a great idea, send me your data, and I will take care of it for you". This is just me though. Must be the biz I am in.
post #141 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

Please back this up with a fact and not an opinion.

Maybe I better dump my Geo-tagging app, or my VoIP apps, Internet streaming radio app,Geo caching app, MSN messenger app, and QUITE a few others to name a few just because, well according to you they will not exist once they "might" be available for the iPhone. Talk about a myopic view of things.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Where did I say these apps would no longer be available for Symbian once they are available for the iPhone.
post #142 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by douglerner View Post

(1) My cell phone has a built in chip that lets me use the phone for all sorts of daily payments. I can use it to get on the train, subway and buses. I can use it to buy stuff at convenience stores and a lot of other places too, including vending machines. It would be a nuisance to not be able to do that any more.

Sure, that's kind of nice, but it's no big deal to just stick a Suica in your wallet and pull that out instead of your phone when entering or leaving the train station or making a payment at a コンビニ.

I carry both a Japanese phone (no Mobile Suica) and a 2G iPhone, using the latter basically as a PDA and for email and browsing if I happen to find free WiFi. My biggest frustration is not being able to type in Japanese on the iPhone, so I am very much looking forward to the 2.0 software update.

東京持夢
post #143 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I have no idea what you are talking about. Where did I say these apps would no longer be available for Symbian once they are available for the iPhone.

Start at your post #122, then spin forward to my reply of post #128. Then we can go forward. This way it saves us alot of going back and forth.
post #144 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Can you please more specific?

Sure. Symbian was being called the most advanced platform because of the simple fact that you can build 3rd party apps for it.

My refernce is to the sophistication of OS X development tools and API's which are unarguably better than Symbian's efforts.

For evidence of this one only needs to look at the demo apps. Devlopers porting console level gaming graphics that are more common to the Nintendo DS or PSP. These types of games generally aren't on mobile phone platforms. The most impressive were the medical imaging apps. Unless I've missed them I haven't seen anything like that on any mobile phone platform.
post #145 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

Start at your post #122, then spin forward to my reply of post #128. Then we can go forward. This way it saves us alot of going back and forth.

I know what I said. I was asking how you came to your conclusion from it.
post #146 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Sure. Symbian was being called the most advanced platform because of the simple fact that you can build 3rd party apps for it.

I hope you were not referring to me, because Symbian isn't the most advance platform. It is a pretty good mobile platform for what it does though, and has the ability to become more robust. I am sure with the advent of Mac OS X Mobile (or whatever you want to call it), Symbian will have to adapt or die. The Symbian foundation has too much invested in it let it slip away so, I am guessing that they should step up their game a bit in the very near future.

Quote:
My refernce is to the sophistication of OS X development tools and API's which are unarguably better than Symbian's efforts.

If this is what you meant, you did not say so. Could be a matter of posting on the run, and not filling in all the details. I do this often.

[/quote]For evidence of this one only needs to look at the demo apps. Devlopers porting console level gaming graphics that are more common to the Nintendo DS or PSP. These types of games generally aren't on mobile phone platforms. The most impressive were the medical imaging apps. Unless I've missed them I haven't seen anything like that on any mobile phone platform.[/QUOTE]

Very good point. I expect to see a plethora of similar apps for Symbian. It would be advantageous for software houses to develop a sort of "base" app that can be ported where ever they want (please no Java), and satisfy several markets at one time.
post #147 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I know what I said. I was asking how you came to your conclusion from it.

Okay. You said>
Quote:
You cannot create apps for Symbian like the ones that will soon be available for the iPhone.

My response was to this quote that I took at face value. For me it means that once these new iPhone apps, seen and unseen, hit the market, Symbian will not be able to create them. I went further to say that there are currently apps running on Symbian that can rival the ones that may or may not appear for the iPhone. Your statement about not being able to create apps for Symbian is quite a bit myopic as you nor I have any idea of what and what can not be created for either platform. If you can, then you are clairvoyant and can you advise me on Apple shares over the next few years?

Also, I hope I cleared this up here and now so we do not have to go back and forth. While I do not mind debating you, I have a bit of cello practice I need to get to, but I do not want you to think that I am ignoring your points.
post #148 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I'm not sure. I think it was JeffDM taht counted them up, but I honestly can't recall.

edit: Here is the store. It's not easy to count the apps or developers as you have to choose your country and then your phone and your carrier before seeing the apps hat are available. I'm sure most are crossover apps but it's too much work to count. I checked the Netherlands and "Norwegia", I can't see ther being 4000 unique apps or 400 developers available so I must have remembered it incorrectly.

Unless there are non-Nokia sanctioned apps that can be installed since it does require you to connect it to a PC first (PITA). Are there really apps that can't be used on certain networks or is the network info just for data collecting?
http://www.download.nokia.com PS: Your comment about S60 v2 and v3 and the different phones on the site makes me wonder which device has the most apps and how much. I also wonder which BB or WinMo or Palm device has the most apps available and how many.

Anyone want to start Wiki pages on the apps avaialble for these different mobile OSes. I'll do the iPhone.... next month.

The 4,000 number sounds more than a bit high.

Also, as you sort of point out, Nokia is restrictive in which apps they allow. It really does seem as though they are much more restrictive than Apple is.
post #149 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

The 4,000 number sounds more than a bit high.

Depends if we are talking all Symbian versions, to include UIQ as well.

Quote:
Also, as you sort of point out, Nokia is restrictive in which apps they allow. It really does seem as though they are much more restrictive than Apple is.

WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you just making stuff up now? Do you even own an Nokia S60 v1, or v2, or v3 phone? Have you ever? Can you point out (make it easy on yourself) one, just one application that Nokia does not allow. Just one. One tinsy, winsy app.

By all means please explain this, with a link if possible. This is by far the funniest, and wrongest thing I have seen in this forum to date.
post #150 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

Depends if we are talking all Symbian versions, to include UIQ as well.



WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you just making stuff up now? Do you even own an Nokia S60 v1, or v2, or v3 phone? Have you ever? Can you point out (make it easy on yourself) one, just one application that Nokia does not allow. Just one. One tinsy, winsy app.

By all means please explain this, with a link if possible. This is by far the funniest, and wrongest thing I have seen in this forum to date.

Im just repeating what I've read in a number of places.

Sasly, I'm getting problems like this with several of the links I've saved about this:

http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/featu...ia_N95_8GB.php

And while I know this article will get you annoyed, I'll poost it anyway:

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM...AF3BD8B30.html

A short quote from it which is to the point we're talking about:

Quote:
For S60 version 3, they have introduced a new security model where it's necessary to sign all apps with VeriSign to even get them to run. Something that costs several hundreds of dollars per year, just for the certificates, and makes shareware and hobby programming almost impossible from now on.

Some operators are requiring the phones to be locked for any apps not carrying a Symbian Signed certificate. Which means, you have to pay for a certification process where you are checked by Symbian, why you developed the application and why you want to use certain capabilities on the phone, e.g. read and store user data, using the telephony APIs, or the WIFI capabilities etc.

All in the name of security, but of course it will be very tough to make programs, independently, that use functionality that's not in the interest of the operators, such as non-operator controlled Voice over IP.

So much for independently third-party software development on Symbian compared to the closed model used on iPhone. In practice the difference is not that big. Apple will, of course, allow close partners to develop apps like they do with iPod Games today.

Check out that cost again. It's much cheaper to develop programs for the iPhone. That leads to less restrictiveness. Apple isn't requiring a Verisign certificate, among other requirements.

But, read the entire article.

Here's a fun Symbian/Nokia thing:

http://www.jacco2.dds.nl/networking/...rt_import.html

Old, but from when this mess started:

http://www.newlc.com/Unsigned-Symbia...ations-to.html

This isinteresting though not directly related:

http://www.symbian-guru.com/welcome/...should-be.html

A little bit of info you may want to know;

http://www.mydigitallife.info/2007/0...l-phone-virus/

A bit more about signing:

http://symbianwebblog.wordpress.com/2007/11/27/8/


My wife came home, so it's going to be us making dinner now, so I'll see you, metaphorically, later.
post #151 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Im just repeating what I've read in a number of places.

Sasly, I'm getting problems like this with several of the links I've saved about this:

http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/featu...ia_N95_8GB.php

And while I know this article will get you annoyed, I'll poost it anyway:

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM...AF3BD8B30.html

I saw the first article the other day. I think the guy was a bit biased against the iPhone. The second article was good as well and I agree. Symbian is okay for what it does but as he said, Nokia would have a hard time dumping it now, and Linux is way to complicated for the masses. I had a Nokia N800, and N810 tablet. Cool devices but not ready for prime time.

The new Nokia's, well the last few that I have owned have the ability to accept the application, signed or not. This was not there before. So, if I create a crap app and someone wants to install it, they still can. In fact all the S60 v3 themes are now installed rather than copied. Some of them are not signed, and are just accepted.

Quote:
A short quote from it which is to the point we're talking about:

Check out that cost again. It's much cheaper to develop programs for the iPhone. That leads to less restrictiveness. Apple isn't requiring a Verisign certificate, among other requirements.

If this is the basis of your argument, then while not very robust, you can say "well Verisgning" makes it more expensive and makes it more restrictive." I can counter with, "just accept the app unsigned". So we are at plus/minus = zero.

Quote:
But, read the entire article.

Here's a fun Symbian/Nokia thing:

http://www.jacco2.dds.nl/networking/...rt_import.html

Old, but from when this mess started:

http://www.newlc.com/Unsigned-Symbia...ations-to.html

This isinteresting though not directly related:

http://www.symbian-guru.com/welcome/...should-be.html

A little bit of info you may want to know;

http://www.mydigitallife.info/2007/0...l-phone-virus/

A bit more about signing:

http://symbianwebblog.wordpress.com/2007/11/27/8/


My wife came home, so it's going to be us making dinner now, so I'll see you, metaphorically, later.

I have seen the other articles. I am dumbfounded why they use DER certs as opposed to using CER's which everyone uses.

Bon appetite.
post #152 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cbswe View Post

Yes, exactly, its a lot of white-blue-grey or white-black (as in the apple TV menu)

I really don't understand at all what you are talking about here.


Quote:
I use the majority of the N95 features, with exeption for some small and unsignifigant tool-apps.

There have been studies that show most people don't use most of those features, and generally find the N95 difficult to use.

Quote:
An example where you are more or less required to is when when you have to retrive a new password when you lost yours for a forum login or similar. Without the possibility of multiple apps running, you'd have to close the web app, open the e-mail-app, writhe down the new pass on a pice of paper (since iPhone didn't have copy-paste?), close the mail-app, open upp the web app, return to the same site, login and throw your pice of paper into a nearby trash can.

Copy and paste would pretty much alleviate that dilemma. The problem with what you describe is that you risk maxing out the CPU and RAM, possibly crashing both apps, and using a fourth of the battery life. Not a very good solution.
post #153 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

I hope you were not referring to me, because Symbian isn't the most advance platform.

No it was a respose to Cbswe.




Quote:
Very good point. I expect to see a plethora of similar apps for Symbian. It would be advantageous for software houses to develop a sort of "base" app that can be ported where ever they want (please no Java), and satisfy several markets at one time.

That is essentially what I am saying. Its not simply the hardware its the software. Symbian is not OS X. Symbian does not have API's as sophisticated as Cocoa Touch and the Core API's. Developers won't just suddenly be able to make more advanced apps without serious improvements in the development code.
post #154 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

That is essentially what I am saying. Its not simply the hardware its the software. Symbian is not OS X. Symbian does not have API's as sophisticated as Cocoa Touch and the Core API's. Developers won't just suddenly be able to make more advanced apps without serious improvements in the development code.

I'm sure many will disagree with me but Androidwhile still in it's infancyis the best option I've seen for competing with the OS X iPhone. A few power frameworks and more solid and well tested core and I think it will be used by most manufacturers, sans Apple. The software is free, it appears to be easy to develop for, and they can make it their own in any way they want. What i think will help Android gain ground more quickly is the iPhone as manufacturers are being made aware just how stunted their software platform really is. (speculation)
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #155 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I'm sure many will disagree with me but Androidwhile still in it's infancyis the best option I've seen for competing with the OS X iPhone. A few power frameworks and more solid and well tested core and I think it will be used by most manufacturers, sans Apple. The software is free, it appears to be easy to develop for, and they can make it their own in any way they want. What i think will help Android gain ground more quickly is the iPhone as manufacturers are being made aware just how stunted their software platform really is. (speculation)

It'll be interesting to see.

The iPhone began as a closed platform from the start and Apple is slowly opening and relaxing rules as they figure their way around problems and performance.

Google seems to be coming from the other direction. At first announcing Android as completely open and over time adding some restrictions as they discover potential future problems with being too open.
post #156 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I really don't understand at all what you are talking about here.

I don't know what the hell it is called, but the interface, like Aqua is in OS X, is making the phone UI look rather limited and repetitive. Since you don't use windows (as in computer windows, not microsoft windows) it feel as if you use a computer but can only see one window at a time and at the same time you can only use one app at a time etc. Concept-wise it feels unsatisfying. But this note is just a personal opinion, not to take as some eccentric statement, heh.

Quote:
There have been studies that show most people don't use most of those features, and generally find the N95 difficult to use.

depends how you count the features I guess, by numer of apps or actual functions. It doesn't hurt to have potential access to function you just might occasionally use

Quote:
Copy and paste would pretty much alleviate that dilemma. The problem with what you describe is that you risk maxing out the CPU and RAM, possibly crashing both apps, and using a fourth of the battery life. Not a very good solution.

Haven't have those kind of problems, because I know the phones limitations and haven't have problems with battery life ether
post #157 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cbswe View Post

I don't know what the hell it is called, but the interface, like Aqua is in OS X, is making the phone UI look rather limited and repetitive. Since you don't use windows (as in computer windows, not microsoft windows) it feel as if you use a computer but can only see one window at a time and at the same time you can only use one app at a time etc. Concept-wise it feels unsatisfying. But this note is just a personal opinion, not to take as some eccentric statement, heh.

Probably personal taste. A UI does need to be consistent to some degree. Its bad design to have every app designed too differently. That has been a big complaint about Windows apps that Apple and its developers have been better at.


Quote:
depends how you count the features I guess, by numer of apps or actual functions. It doesn't hurt to have potential access to function you just might occasionally use

Its been shown in numerous surveys that email, sms/mms, and voice are the top used functions on the smartphone. The problem is as you add more functions you begin to compromise the usability of all of the apps. Especially attempting to force every app to work with a fixed key board.

Quote:
Haven't have those kind of problems, because I know the phones limitations and haven't have problems with battery life ether

Which is another key Apple design philosophy. They don't want people to have to learn how to allocate CPU cycles and manage RAM. They just want users to freely use the phone with little thought for its internal functions.
post #158 of 164
Just visited a SoftBank shop. No info yet, but the rep said lots of people had been in asking about the iPhone.

When asked about features, he said video recording and TV would be a plus, but did not seem to be deterring interest.

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply
post #159 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

I saw the first article the other day. I think the guy was a bit biased against the iPhone. The second article was good as well and I agree. Symbian is okay for what it does but as he said, Nokia would have a hard time dumping it now, and Linux is way to complicated for the masses. I had a Nokia N800, and N810 tablet. Cool devices but not ready for prime time.

The new Nokia's, well the last few that I have owned have the ability to accept the application, signed or not. This was not there before. So, if I create a crap app and someone wants to install it, they still can. In fact all the S60 v3 themes are now installed rather than copied. Some of them are not signed, and are just accepted.



If this is the basis of your argument, then while not very robust, you can say "well Verisgning" makes it more expensive and makes it more restrictive." I can counter with, "just accept the app unsigned". So we are at plus/minus = zero.



I have seen the other articles. I am dumbfounded why they use DER certs as opposed to using CER's which everyone uses.

Bon appetite.

There's a lot more stuff out there, but I didn't want to overdo it. Signing is just part of the problem, but it is a big part. The costs are also several times what it costs for an iPhone developer, and I'm not sure if those giving away free programs can do it for free as they can do for the iPhone.

We get people here complaining that $99 is too much.
post #160 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I'm sure many will disagree with me but Androidwhile still in it's infancyis the best option I've seen for competing with the OS X iPhone. A few power frameworks and more solid and well tested core and I think it will be used by most manufacturers, sans Apple. The software is free, it appears to be easy to develop for, and they can make it their own in any way they want. What i think will help Android gain ground more quickly is the iPhone as manufacturers are being made aware just how stunted their software platform really is. (speculation)

I agree with you here. Symbian is not in the same league to compete against the iPhone, however it does work quite well on the devices that utilize it. I think with a bit more horse power under the hood, hardware wise, Nokia Symbian phones would really be stellar. They are feature packed and perform very well in most tests, as well as user satisfaction. The biz community seems to embrace Symbian quite well also. Android should shake up things quite a bit though. From a consumer stand point my loyalty does not simply fall in line behind Apple but with where my wallet will see the best performance for price.
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