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First shots of Mac OS X Snow Leopard show desktop web apps

post #1 of 53
Thread Starter 
Although announced less than two weeks ago, screen captures of a Mac OS X Snow Leopard test build show the ability to create web apps in Safari 4 and an update to Address Book with hooks into Microsoft Exchange.

The new test build, documented by German website Apfeltalk (with translation by Engadget), offers a "Save as Web Application" menu item in Safari that creates a complete version of the website that can potentially be used offline and without the overhead of normal web browser.

Similar to web app icons for the iPhone's home screen, the feature is intended to improve access to online productivity apps like Google Docs or Photoshop Express, which can substitute for some dedicated programs on the desktop.

The web browser is also expected to implement a few additional changes including SquirrelFish, a new Javascript engine that promises much faster performance than the current Safari 3.1 engine and will be key to web app support.

Snow Leopard also already includes a test upgrade to Address Book, dubbed Address Book Exchange Preview in the early build, that adds a connection to the Microsoft collaboration format. Once the user is logged in, contacts stored on an Exchange server are synchronized with the Mac at user-set intervals.

Few other changes are immediately evident and are often only visible through different version numbers; the latest iteration of Snow Leopard currently uses QuickTime 7.6 rather than the QuickTime X overhaul promised for the final release.

More changes are expected to surface before Snow Leopard is released in mid-2009.
post #2 of 53
I have to say that I am already anxious for Snow Leopard. The new Safari icon is brilliant.
post #3 of 53
How will this Save As Web App compare to what Fluid provides now--aside from not being free?
post #4 of 53
this just basically seems like an update to leopard, why not just do this as like 10.5.5
or instead of os x, when not os 11 if this will be faster and the Intel era with no power p.c. support
post #5 of 53
For some reason, this article neglects to mention that you can test Safari 4 without Snow Leopard whether you're on Tiger, Leopard or Windows XP or Vista, by downloading it from ADC with a free online account.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CREB View Post

I have to say that I am already anxious for Snow Leopard. The new Safari icon is brilliant.

I'm assuming you mean the icon from the site-specific browser. Safari's icon hasn't changed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post

How will this Save As Web App compare to what Fluid provides now--aside from not being free?

What do you mean by not free? Safari is, and always has been, a free download. Given that the Safari 4 preview has been available for free download as well, I expect that to be the case for the final version, too.
post #6 of 53
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post #7 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdhockeyfan424 View Post

this just basically seems like an update to leopard, why not just do this as like 10.5.5
or instead of os x, when not os 11 if this will be faster and the Intel era with no power p.c. support

Frankly, I don't see an OS 11 happening for decades. "OS X" is now the brand name, not "Mac OS." In my mind, the 10.x.x designation only exists to make the OS X brand name make more sense.
post #8 of 53
Yeah, I'm sorry....if this is basically just a performance upgrade, this needs to be either a free or low-cost upgrade.

Sure, the features being implemented are nice...performance upgrades are always welcome, but comeon Apple...

The sad thing is...even if it is just a performance upgrade...I'd still buy it. Gotta stay on top of things....It'd just be nice if it didn't cost the usual 130 bucks...
post #9 of 53
People Buy into hypes like WinFS, DirectX 10, etc.....
None of these are user features.
Grand Central , QuickTime X, OpenCL, and other underlying technolgy are huge update compare to Leopard.
I dont see why apple would charge less this time. If you dont want the new release dont buy it. In terms of work being put into Mac OSX snow leopard will properly worth every penny.
post #10 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbradley67 View Post

Yeah, I'm sorry....if this is basically just a performance upgrade, this needs to be either a free or low-cost upgrade.
Sure, the features being implemented are nice...performance upgrades are always welcome, but comeon Apple...

Don't confuse the bug fixes and optimizations of point releases with the Snow Leopard version release. I bet there is more R&D going into Snow Leopard than went into Leopard. This isn't a simple update, this is going to be a completely reworked system from the bottom up.

As for charging you, don't buy it if it's too much. Apple has included the name "Leopard" within and stated that there are no new features, despite having many new features. Those are not by accident! By the time Snow Leopard is released as 10.6.0 Leopard will probably be on 10.5.7 or .8. Which do you think will be more stable? Free or not, why would you consider a new OS that is less tested and has no features? You wouldn't, but you've read that it's going to have a lot of new code that does some remarkable things. That stuff doesn't made for free. There is no government funding for adding performance to an OS.

PS: It makes me sick how many people think that no matter how much time and effort a developer puts into software it should be free if it doesn't have plenty of extra bells and whistles they can brag about to their friends. If you only care about having extra buttons to clock and not better performance then don't buy it, Leopard will be supported well after Snow Leopard is out.
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post #11 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Don't confuse the bug fixes and optimizations of point releases with the Snow Leopard version release. I bet there is more R&D going into Snow Leopard than went into Leopard. This isn't a simple update, this is going to be a completely reworked system from the bottom up.

As for charging you, don't buy it if it's too much. Apple has included the name "Leopard" within and stated that there are no new features, despite having many new features. Those are not by accident! By the time Snow Leopard is released as 10.6.0 Leopard will probably be on 10.5.7 or .8. Which do you think will be more stable? Free or not, why would you consider a new OS that is less tested and has no features? You wouldn't, but you've read that it's going to have a lot of new code that does some remarkable things. That stuff doesn't made for free. There is no government funding for adding performance to an OS.

PS: It makes me sick how many people think that no matter how much time and effort a developer puts into software it should be free if it doesn't have plenty of extra bells and whistles they can brag about to their friends. If you only care about having extra buttons to clock and not better performance then don't buy it, Leopard will be supported well after Snow Leopard is out.


I'm a Mac Guy from years back. I had to switch to Windows to do Business in the corporate world.

This ALL JUST SEEMS A LITTLE TO FAMILIAR TO VISTA. THE ALL SAVING UPGRADE.

WE'RE STILL WAITING FOR WINDOWS X.X TO FIX IT BUT I'M STILL ON XP.
post #12 of 53
the information in the Console.app is quite interesting.
post #13 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by phlake View Post

frankly, I Don't See An Os 11 Happening For Decades. "os X" Is Now The Brand Name, Not "mac Os." In My Mind, The 10.x.x Designation Only Exists To Make The Os X Brand Name Make More Sense.

Vista 0sx
post #14 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksec View Post

people Buy Into Hypes Like Winfs, Directx 10, Etc.....
None Of These Are User Features.
Grand Central , Quicktime X, Opencl, And Other Underlying Technolgy Are Huge Update Compare To Leopard.
I Dont See Why Apple Would Charge Less This Time. If You Dont Want The New Release Dont Buy It. In Terms Of Work Being Put Into Mac Osx Snow Leopard Will Properly Worth Every Penny.

Vista Osx.
post #15 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by WidnowsGuy View Post

I'm a Mac Guy from years back. I had to switch to Windows to do Business in the corporate world.

This ALL JUST SEEMS A LITTLE TO FAMILIAR TO VISTA. THE ALL SAVING UPGRADE.

WE'RE STILL WAITING FOR WINDOWS X.X TO FIX IT BUT I'M STILL ON XP.

I have no idea what part sounds like Vista. Leopard is faster than Tiger is faster than Panther et cetera. Vista added a plethora of spec sheet features to compete with OS X Tiger, but still had legacy code making up the foundation of VIsta, while Snow Leopard is trying to reduce legacy code so modern computers can perform better. I've also not read about mass migration back to XO from Vista on newly purchased machines.


PS: I wish I had seen your "Vista Osx" and "Vista 0sx" posts before I replied as you are coming off as a troll.
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post #16 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slewis View Post

Because while it won't be immediately noticeable to the end user, OpenCL and Grand Central are HUGE changes,

It is important to highlight this. While Snow leopard is being passed off as not delivering anything new from the user perspective it looks to be pretty significant to developers. If they are successful in even a modest amount the user should realize a faster less memory hungry system. Even then I'd expect just about every app to get more than modest tweaks.
Quote:
besides that most new "end user" features are usually show cases for developers for what's possible using the new APIs and frameworks in each release.

I don't see the basic apps as being show cases. For one some of them use Apple private API's. Second many Apple apps lag with respect to what they could be.
Quote:
The showcase this time will be the apps already in the current release like iChat.

I tend to see it differently, what will be showcased in Snow Leopard will be things that users seldom see. Some things such a stability regressions users shouldn't see. Improvements to things such as threading and API's supported, the user only sees in passing as a quicker more stable system. In other words Snow leopard promises a lto of under the hood clean ups.
Quote:

Sebastian

Dave
post #17 of 53
That is what just came to mind, I mean really why worry about Snow leopard at this point. What ever one sees of it now is not guaranteed to be there upon release. Further such a product is always subject to revision.

The only really glaring item that I see here is that Apple was very confident about being able to speed up leopard to go public with any sort of comment related to performance at this early stage. It looks like they have been doing a lot of research, probably in conjunction with iphone, and have identified significant improvement possibilities.

Dave
post #18 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by WidnowsGuy View Post

I'm a Mac Guy from years back. I had to switch to Windows to do Business in the corporate world.

This ALL JUST SEEMS A LITTLE TO FAMILIAR TO VISTA. THE ALL SAVING UPGRADE.

WE'RE STILL WAITING FOR WINDOWS X.X TO FIX IT BUT I'M STILL ON XP.

Do a little background before making such a statement. There is no parallel. If you're going to be a troll, at least be an interesting one. Are you 12?
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post #19 of 53
They'll have to charge for Snow Leopard because some people like me will likely skip Leopard and go straight onto it. I was a bit disappointed with Leopard. I expected the performance to be much improved over Tiger. IMO Snow Leopard will be what Leopard should have been on Intel.

But I guess the legacy PPC support dragged them down and they couldn't avoid making Leopard for PPC. Plus the whole focus on the iphone didn't help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdrifmeyer

the information in the Console.app is quite interesting.

Which parts? The shared Finder preview panel? ExtendedTouchSwitch doesn't refer to touch displays. Changes to the Apple displays software could hint at updated Apple displays though.

SingleSignOnTools is a server log - is this OS X Server he's running? I've never really understood why Apple even have two products. OS X comes bundled with Apache, Kerberos etc so why not just have it as a configuration option on a single installer disc?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AI

More changes are expected to surface before Snow Leopard is released in mid-2009.

Is mid-2009 confirmed or just speculated? I guess they shouldn't have to delay it like last time. 10.5 previewed in June 2006 and scheduled for Spring (March-May) 2007 release. It didn't actually arrive until October 2007.

If it's just an optimization release with few new features and less legacy support required then I don't see why they couldn't release in January 2009.
post #20 of 53
It isn't a "few new features and less legacy support" though. It is probably the biggest overhaul to Mac OS X it seems. Think of OS X as a building, and the fact is, everyone is speaking about the paintwork. "Oh, my that looks different." That is what people want - a building that looks different.

What is Mac OS X Snow Leopard? Its gutting the building, and redesigning the interior and the structure.

Apple is doing a major rework of OS X if the reports are to be believed. This in my view is impressive, and exactly what OS X needs. Leopard is brilliant, but buggy. Its gone way too far in supporting too many platforms, and its spread too thin. It needs to be consolidated, and cleaned to a shine.

In my view, this affords them more than 6 months to develop it. They need more.

Maybe we will only get two more dot releases like 10.6.2, because it will be that optimum. 10.5.3 was the first livable upgrade. 10.5.2 was simply horrible.
post #21 of 53
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Þ & þ are called "Thorn" & þey represent þe sound you've associated "th" wiþ since þe 13þ or 14þ century. I'm bringing it back.
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post #22 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

They'll have to charge for Snow Leopard because some people like me will likely skip Leopard and go straight onto it. I was a bit disappointed with Leopard. I expected the performance to be much improved over Tiger. IMO Snow Leopard will be what Leopard should have been on Intel.

But I guess the legacy PPC support dragged them down and they couldn't avoid making Leopard for PPC. Plus the whole focus on the iphone didn't help.



Which parts? The shared Finder preview panel? ExtendedTouchSwitch doesn't refer to touch displays. Changes to the Apple displays software could hint at updated Apple displays though.

SingleSignOnTools is a server log - is this OS X Server he's running? I've never really understood why Apple even have two products. OS X comes bundled with Apache, Kerberos etc so why not just have it as a configuration option on a single installer disc?



Is mid-2009 confirmed or just speculated? I guess they shouldn't have to delay it like last time. 10.5 previewed in June 2006 and scheduled for Spring (March-May) 2007 release. It didn't actually arrive until October 2007.

If it's just an optimization release with few new features and less legacy support required then I don't see why they couldn't release in January 2009.

Look for the API calls and specifically the ObjC syntax calls. Lots of references to deprecated behavior being replaced in a future version.
post #23 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

the information in the Console.app is quite interesting.

Yup. Lots of deprecated calls, even in use by Finder!

I also noticed there's a YahooSync Framework mentioned in System Profiler. So, it looks like it'll sync with more than just Exchange.

Apple saying 'no new features, just performance/stability' is clearly wrong - they seem to be adding in all the iPhone 2.0 enterprise features and changes they made in the iPhone OS.
post #24 of 53
come on, AppleInsider! You're making it seem as if Safari 4 is only for Snow Leopard. Get a developer account and download it off the Apple website!

http://theunixgeek.blogspot.com/2008...-4-review.html

and I'm on Leopard
post #25 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

I also noticed there's a YahooSync Framework mentioned in System Profiler. So, it looks like it'll sync with more than just Exchange.

YahooSync was introduced with 10.4.10. Your Address Book can already do that.
post #26 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Changes to the Apple displays software could hint at updated Apple displays though.

hasnt almost everything hinted at that.. for far too long
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post #27 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucker View Post

YahooSync was introduced with 10.4.10. Your Address Book can already do that.

I'd not noticed that. Cool. I hope they're spreading it further than just Address Book though.
post #28 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by CREB View Post

I have to say that I am already anxious for Snow Leopard. The new Safari icon is brilliant.

I'd love if that was the new icon.
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post #29 of 53
What?- a whole new OS just to make the iPhone compatible with Windows Exchange?
Whatever.
post #30 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by WidnowsGuy View Post

Vista 0sx

or "XP forever, baby!"

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post #31 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

What?- a whole new OS just to make the iPhone compatible with Windows Exchange?
Whatever.

How in the world did you come to *that* conclusion??

No, nevermind, I don't want to know.

To the non-programmers in the crowd: this is not a 'performance tweak'. This is a rewrite.

Consider you've written a book for sale. It gets published, and over time, it needs some updates as typos and small grammatical errors are found. Those are bug fixes, like 10.5.2 -> 10.5.3. Every so often, you write a new chapter and stick it on the end. Those are feature releases, like 10.4 -> 10.5.

Now your editor comes to you and says "This is great, but you've lost the flow of the book completely with all these new chapters on the end - the beginning chapters no longer make sense. You're going to have to rewrite the entire book to make it cohesive and understandable." You're looking at probably the same amount of work ahead of you now, as what you put in to write the entire book in the first place.

That's what Apple is doing in 10.6.

So... should you give away your completely rewritten book for free, given that there's 'no new content'?
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post #32 of 53
You can choose 32-bit mode if you wish


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post #33 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

That is what just came to mind, I mean really why worry about Snow leopard at this point. What ever one sees of it now is not guaranteed to be there upon release. Further such a product is always subject to revision.

The only really glaring item that I see here is that Apple was very confident about being able to speed up leopard to go public with any sort of comment related to performance at this early stage. It looks like they have been doing a lot of research, probably in conjunction with iphone, and have identified significant improvement possibilities.

Dave

MacWorld just had a podcast round table (http://www.macworld.com/article/1340...odcast124.html) with a group of Mac developers who are developing iPhone apps. They were all in agreement that writing iPhone apps was changing the way they were writing MacIntosh apps. For the better. It would be no surprise that Apple is finding the same lessons with the OS.

Maybe last years delay while the OS developers were pulled off the OS to work the iPhone is coming back to the benefit the OS.
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post #34 of 53
I don't think we should get hung up too much on whether their are new features or not, Whether we have to pay or not, whether it is €130 0r €50 or whatever.

The main purpose of Snow Leopard 10.6 is to make the OS so much better going into the future. I don't think Apple are trying to hide anything and are being up front and honest. I reckon a lot of people won't need the update at all. Many buy Macs and never update to the newer systems, unless they need to as a requirement for new software.

Those that need the performance increases for certain tasks will probably buy 10.6 as part of the necessary/natural evolution of their setup. It will be like an everyday expense. I think that users who really require these improvements in the system appreciate the hard work being done and are willing to pay for that.

I don't think Apple will care if we don't all run out to get 10.6. What their focus will be mainly on will be seeing 10.6 pre-loaded on new Macs where it will really impress. The next OS where Apple will be looking for a rush to purchase will be 10.7 (or whatever its called) when they get back to adding features. Apple have indicated that they are slowing down in the frequency of OS releases. Give them a break. They can't always be churning out great ideas.

The one thing I wish Apple would do though is re-introduce one or two things that disappeared from the system going from Tiger to Leopard. And I would like them back in this OS, not one we have to pay for.
post #35 of 53
What is grand central, and where r these screenshots?
post #36 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickaha View Post

To the non-programmers in the crowd: this is not a 'performance tweak'. This is a rewrite.

If this is true, then exactly what is being rewritten? All of the frameworks? Wouldn't a rewrite on this scale take quite a while?
post #37 of 53
The save as a Web App, on this version at least, only saves the current page in my tests, not the entire web site.
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post #38 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoughBoy View Post

If this is true, then exactly what is being rewritten? All of the frameworks? Wouldn't a rewrite on this scale take quite a while?

It's not a rewrite but a reimplementation that has been developed, in parallel, and ready to be put in when business markets deem it right.
post #39 of 53
I can report Safari 4 does work in some web based text editors that previous versions didn't. I still get the old warning that the text editor doesn't support my web browser but whereas Safari 3 failed Safari 4 is fine.
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post #40 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

You can choose 32-bit mode if you wish


Oh shiii...SEKRIT APIS. 64-bit Carbon shouldn't exist. Yet the Finder can be launched in 32-bit mode? NO! This is utter bullshit.

This is either:

a) Fake
b) A bug that shows 32-bit mode even though the Finder actually is running in 32-bit mode (yet Activity Monitor says it's running in 64-bit mode)
c) Secret APIs that nobody has access to except Apple
d) a Cocoa Finder (which suspiciously looks exactly like the Carbon Leopard Finder)

I know Apple...I know the Finder team is composed of retarded monkeys...this isn't a Cocoa Finder, the Finder team isn't competent enough to produce a Cocoa Finder in such little time that looks and feels like the current Finder (and why would they copy something when they have a chance to start with a clean slate) so we can safely rule d out. The screenshot is most likely not fake...so it's either b or c. Which is it? Is Apple really flexing their 64-bit Carbon APIs in front of Adobe and MS's faces or has Apple actually written an exact replica of the Carbon Finder in Cocoa? Either answer would disappoint me to no end.
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