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Will Apple respond to the new California "Hands Free" Law with the iPhone?

post #1 of 33
Thread Starter 
There are already signs everywhere on the freeways..

Starting July 1st, 2008, it will become illegal to drive and use any phone that is not completely hands free.. This of course means that it will become illegal to operate and make any calls on an iPhone in the state of California while driving...

Anyone think that Apple plans to respond by offering hands free dialing as an update for iPhone owners.. Afterall, Cupertino, California is Apple's hometown and as a state probably has more iPhone owners than any other in the US...
post #2 of 33
I sure hope so.

I've seen those signs all over the freeway as well. I mean, what's the point of having "hands free," if you're still using your hands to operate the phone?
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post #3 of 33
My Blackberry has voice dialing but it basically just doesn't work.
post #4 of 33
my moto v551 has voice dialing and works pretty well, best car kit so far for me is the blueant
would like to try jawbone

this is such a no-brainer why why why iphone won't have this. it to me is absolutely necessary for me to buy an iphone
period end.
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post #5 of 33
it is a good law for California and a major miss on Apple's part to not have voice dialing as a feature of the phone it touts as more advanced. I own the iPhone but I miss voice dialing as a feature because it really does help. Also, the iPhone is very much specific touch oriented. I don't mean to constantly knock the iPhone as I do enjoy the experience of it but there are practical components that need attention. I am a loyal Apple guy but it would not be insulting to the Apple mantra to listen to consumers at least some of the time!
post #6 of 33
I'm curious as to why everybody thinks this is Apple's fault? Maybe Apple is simply leaving it up to the customer as to who's voice recognition software will be the best when the new App store opens? Lets not be shortsighted by thinking that voice dialing is the only situation where voice recognition software would come in handy on the iPhone.

So, be patient, this is obviously a huge feature need (especially as other states follow California's lead) and easily added with a simple software upgrade or App store purchase. There is no built-in voice recognition in OS X so it leaves the door wide open for companies like MacSpeech and Dragon.
post #7 of 33
California doesn't lead in hands free driving. New York/
New Jersey have had the law since 2003. There are three other states to pass the law before California.

There are many who believe people should not be on the phone at all while driving.
post #8 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbwi View Post

I'm curious as to why everybody thinks this is Apple's fault? Maybe Apple is simply leaving it up to the customer as to who's voice recognition software will be the best when the new App store opens? Lets not be shortsighted by thinking that voice dialing is the only situation where voice recognition software would come in handy on the iPhone.

So, be patient, this is obviously a huge feature need (especially as other states follow California's lead) and easily added with a simple software upgrade or App store purchase. There is no built-in voice recognition in OS X so it leaves the door wide open for companies like MacSpeech and Dragon.

Having voice dialing on the iphone doesn't exclude the market for voice recognition software on App store.

If I follow your theory --- then Apple should kill the Google mapping app because they would want to foster the app market for turn by turn navigation.
post #9 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

Having voice dialing on the iphone doesn't exclude the market for voice recognition software on App store.

If I follow your theory --- then Apple should kill the Google mapping app because they would want to foster the app market for turn by turn navigation.

Samab, I agree with your last point. While the App Store can be the answer for all things not done, it is simply a bad miss on Apples part. Voice dialing has been around for years now. Apples user interface is the best on the market right now but ultimately things will boil down to apps that the consumer needs. it is great that Apple has provided a great platform and it is interesting to see how long it will take other phone makers to come up with a better designed product than they current present. If Nokia designed a beautiful phone with a great interface, it would be a much closer competition.
post #10 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

Having voice dialing on the iphone doesn't exclude the market for voice recognition software on App store.

If I follow your theory --- then Apple should kill the Google mapping app because they would want to foster the app market for turn by turn navigation.

What? Your first remark reinforces my opinion. I said Apple could release a simple software upgrade or 3rd party App store purchase so solve the issue. Sounds exactly like what you just said.

How do you derive that theory from what I said? Apple has their own Calculator, does that mean they should ban others from making additional Calculators? I don't get your logic. There is a basic set of features on the iPhone and Apple turned to a couple trusted partners to develop a few of those features. That in no way implies that they need to kill those partnerships now to foster the App store.
post #11 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbwi View Post

What? Your first remark reinforces my opinion. I said Apple could release a simple software upgrade or 3rd party App store purchase so solve the issue. Sounds exactly like what you just said.

How do you derive that theory from what I said? Apple has their own Calculator, does that mean they should ban others from making additional Calculators? I don't get your logic. There is a basic set of features on the iPhone and Apple turned to a couple trusted partners to develop a few of those features. That in no way implies that they need to kill those partnerships now to foster the App store.

If it is just a simple software upgrade --- Apple should have put it in at firmware 1.01. We are looking at firmware 2.0 --- and still no voice dialing.

When you see the iphone going from 1.0 to 1.01 to 1.02 to 1.1.1 to 1.1.2 to 1.1.3 to 1.1.4 to 2.0 --- then it's Apple's fault for not including it.
post #12 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

If it is just a simple software upgrade --- Apple should have put it in at firmware 1.01. We are looking at firmware 2.0 --- and still no voice dialing.

When you see the iphone going from 1.0 to 1.01 to 1.02 to 1.1.1 to 1.1.2 to 1.1.3 to 1.1.4 to 2.0 --- then it's Apple's fault for not including it.

FYI: Simple software upgrade does not mean simple development of an iPhone Operating System upgrade.

Simple software upgrade means the process to upgrade my iPhone is simple... just plug in, download, and upgrade. It does not mean the process of developing voice recognition software is simple. We've heard from two people in this posting that the companies that build their voice software is less than what they expected. So the development of voice recognition must be more difficult than we think. Be patient
post #13 of 33
Also don't forget that for voice dialing to work the iPhone would have to constantly be monitoring the microphone for sound and then process each sound it intercepts to determine if a voice dial command was issued... if you don't think a complex process such as that... if not done in a very very efficient manner, would be an enormous battery drain then you better think again.

I'm all for voice dialing and think it better dam well come sooner rather than later but i can also see valid reasons why Apple chose not to include it right out of the gate.

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post #14 of 33
One last post and then I promise I'll move on...

Voice recognition is different than hands-free. There are more and more cars that have built in bluetooth and I think some responsibility needs to be put on the auto manufacturers to continue to include hands free dialing on more cars.
post #15 of 33
And voice dialing is different from voice recognition.

Voice dialing --- the computer only needs to know a few hundred words (the 10 digits and a bunch of proper names).
post #16 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

And voice dialing is different from voice recognition.

Voice dialing --- the computer only needs to know a few hundred words (the 10 digits and a bunch of proper names).

Okay but the concept still remains the same...

1 - Mic has to be constantly monitored
2 - Audio has to be captured
3 - Audio has to be 'compared to' the 100 or so voice enabled names you setup.
4 - Match = dial the phone
5 - No match go to line 1

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post #17 of 33
voice dialing doesn't need the "mic" to be constantly monitoring....when you use a car kit, you press a button and this starts the sequence .....i don't know of any car kit that doesn't require the user to initiate the call in some way.

what we should be discussing are the best car kits and best headsets
i have a blueant, and a plantronics voyager.... wished the voyager had better noise cancellation i quess the jawbone is best but lets give people info they can use, hopefully provide some reviews and prices

i like the blueant because it's thin, easy to transfer has wonderful battery life
the plantronics headset also has great battery life but looking for replacement if i can find reasonable quality close to jawbone. samsclub has the plantronics 815 for $48
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post #18 of 33
I guess I too this too literally?

Quote:
illegal to drive and use any phone that is not completely hands free

Believe it or not I've never used voice dial on any of my cell phones so I just assumed it was a feature that was always active when turned on... but I guess the points I listed above it wouldn't be too practical for it to be always active...

Dave
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post #19 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

Starting July 1st, 2008, it will become illegal to drive and use any phone that is not completely hands free.. This of course means that it will become illegal to operate and make any calls on an iPhone in the state of California while driving...

Holding a phone next to your ear while driving, that is the issue. I doubt very much you will get pulled over for dialing a number. Come on...
post #20 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPeon View Post

Holding a phone next to your ear while driving, that is the issue. I doubt very much you will get pulled over for dialing a number. Come on...

All the human factors studies i've seen, indicate that the act of holding a conversation with someone (who is not in the vehicle) is the real problem, not the physical act of holding an object.

Meaning... hands-free is really a red herring. All the data shows that hands-free talking is nearly as dangerous as holding the handset to your head.

I'm not trying to advocate one way or the other, but I fully anticipate phone calls to eventually be prohibited completely while driving. The hands-free laws going into effect in the states and around the world are only the beginning. There is conclusive empirical data that shows talking on the phone to be roughly as impairing as driving while drunk. Calling while driving is just so damn convenient that people aren't wanting to pay attention to the data. Legislating a ban would be political suicide at the moment... but societal norms change. Within a couple decades, there will probably be just as big a negative stigma for phone calls while driving as there is for drunk driving.

With that said, i'm not looking forward to the ban. I'm not as obsessed with safety as perhaps most people are, and am comfortable with the current accident rate.
post #21 of 33
I've used a Bluetooth earpiece for so long that I feel uncomfortable driving and talking on my iPhone without my earpiece. I really do believe I can concentrate more on the road while talking through an earpiece, although I think there are studies that show otherwise.

I really miss voice dialing. I had it on my RAZR, and I'm hoping Apple includes it in a future iPhone update pretty soon.
post #22 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler View Post

All the human factors studies i've seen, indicate that the act of holding a conversation with someone (who is not in the vehicle) is the real problem, not the physical act of holding an object.

Meaning... hands-free is really a red herring. All the data shows that hands-free talking is nearly as dangerous as holding the handset to your head.

I've never had a problem multitasking, but you are right, I have seen many that can't think and drive at the same time. We should definitely pass more laws to defend us from those who can't. That will fix us all nice and solid. Let's just stop everything.
post #23 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

There are many who believe people should not be on the phone at all while driving.

Count me in that camp. Any distractions while driving, including talking to your passengers and listening to the radio contribute to an already dangerous situation. It only takes a fraction of a second to harm or kill another person.

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post #24 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler View Post

All the human factors studies i've seen, indicate that the act of holding a conversation with someone (who is not in the vehicle) is the real problem, not the physical act of holding an object.

Meaning... hands-free is really a red herring. All the data shows that hands-free talking is nearly as dangerous as holding the handset to your head.

I'm not trying to advocate one way or the other, but I fully anticipate phone calls to eventually be prohibited completely while driving. The hands-free laws going into effect in the states and around the world are only the beginning. There is conclusive empirical data that shows talking on the phone to be roughly as impairing as driving while drunk. Calling while driving is just so damn convenient that people aren't wanting to pay attention to the data. Legislating a ban would be political suicide at the moment... but societal norms change. Within a couple decades, there will probably be just as big a negative stigma for phone calls while driving as there is for drunk driving.

With that said, i'm not looking forward to the ban. I'm not as obsessed with safety as perhaps most people are, and am comfortable with the current accident rate.

All of this will be moot in about 10-12 years as "auto-pilot" for cars will become commonplace. I've always wanted to have a robo-chauffeur.

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post #25 of 33
The main issue is that Voice Dialing is NOT required to meet the hands-free requirment of the law. See for example http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2038109/posts. I've found nothing to contradict this.

The iPhone is fully ready for the Ca. law. Just buy a BT headset.
post #26 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Count me in that camp. Any distractions while driving, including talking to your passengers and listening to the radio contribute to an already dangerous situation. It only takes a fraction of a second to harm or kill another person.

This is the one of the most sensible articles I've read on the subject:

The truth about driving and talking on the cell

Lots of good scientific stuff there. One interesting point is that the act of using one's phone hands-free while driving doesn't make one safer, but it's the enactment of "hands free" laws which decreases the usage of cellular phones on the road (not the many people have headsets; and voice dialing is a usability nightmare), thereby reducing the number of accidents/fatalities involving cell phone use.
post #27 of 33
"Studies" have shown that Earth is flat.

"Studies" have shown that man evil.

"Studies" have shown that red causes people to go blind.

"Studies" have shown that hiccups distract drivers, any driver found hiccuping while driving will be fined.

"Studies" have shown that driving causes cancer.

Studies have shown that people will believe anything they are told.



Too funny. It really is funny the amount of bullshit that people buy into. Do you know how much the human mind can process in one second? Having a conversation while driving is enough to make you go blind to your surroundings? Huuuhhh, r-i-g-h-t.

Hey, I have an idea. Let's have a study that shows having children in the car while driving increases the divorce rate. I can prove it, all I have to do is hire a couple of "experts" on the subject, dump some money into the right pockets and there we go. We have successfully violated the human rights of children.

Pathetic.

post #28 of 33
An amazing and rude display of anti-science. (even though your examples are BS)

This isn't just one crack-pot study. There is a near consensus among scientists about the danger of driving while talking on a phone.
post #29 of 33
oh no there is that "consensus" word again....uh oh,

government should require no kids in the car, single passenger vehicles, and if others are in the car.. lets have congress adopt the "cone of silence"......AROUND THEM.
hey i want a phone made to look like a creasy double hamburger, that hasn't been outlawed yet? no better yet that taco bell crunch wrap, hey you can eat it with one hand... how about a tax credit for placing a noise suppression screen between the driver and the passengers. who needs social interaction.
politicians should be made to wear headsets so they can hear the dribble they tell us.
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post #30 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPeon View Post

Too funny. It really is funny the amount of bullshit that people buy into. Do you know how much the human mind can process in one second? Having a conversation while driving is enough to make you go blind to your surroundings? Huuuhhh, r-i-g-h-t.

You also have to look at the fact that in the US around 48,000 people a year are killed or severely injured in automobile accidents. This is multiple times more than the number of fatal accidents for every other mode of transportation combined (planes, trains, bus, boats).

You also assume that most everyone in the general public are good drivers which is not necessarily the case. Mediocre to bad drivers don't need more distraction.
post #31 of 33
There is a consensus about the relative danger, not about if that danger merits legislation of phone usage restrictions.

It appears that some people are so opposed to possible legislation that they are in denial about the data at hand. A more reasoned approach is possible. It is possible to be anti-ban yet still acknowledge the danger evidenced by study after study. The key is to not try and deny the overwhelming majority of scientific data, but rather to claim that the danger is acceptable given the tradeoffs involved.

Rather than tracking down all those studies via a google crusade, a quick visit to wikipedia will point one in the right direction...
Mobile phones and driving safety
post #32 of 33
So then airplane Pilots, Police, Fireman, Taxi drivers, Truckers and so on that have a need to use radio communication devices are also at risk of doing harm to others because they are talking to other parties outside of the vehicle they are currently operating.... So maybe we should also create laws to band that also....

I agree I see many people on the road that can't seem to drive well while they are on the cell phone but at the same time I have not seen them drive off while not talking on the cell phone maybe they still suck at driving when not on the phone also.
post #33 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizmo-xl View Post

So then airplane Pilots, Police, Fireman, Taxi drivers, Truckers and so on that have a need to use radio communication devices are also at risk of doing harm to others because they are talking to other parties outside of the vehicle they are currently operating.... So maybe we should also create laws to band that also....

Yes, those other people driving while distracted also pose an increased risk over driving while not distracted. We know this for a fact.

What is disputable is the exact magnitude of the increased risk, along with whether it is worth the trade-off, and finally whether bans are justified.
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