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The Swiftboating of John McCain - Page 2

post #41 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawnJ View Post

Tell that to Americans.

In all the latest polls from Time, Gallup, Bloomberg, ABC, and CBS, a solid majority of those polled want to get out within the next year or two regardless of whether we "win" or whether Iraq is "stable." Only the NBC poll shows just a plurality of voters wanting to get out. If Americans had a choice between losing the war and staying to fight, they roundly choose getting the hell out.

This polling needs to focus on the swing states. States that aren't in play don't matter to some extent.
post #42 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by mydo View Post

This polling needs to focus on the swing states. States that aren't in play don't matter to some extent.

Good point.

It would be interesting to see the breakdown among the states in play.
post #43 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawnJ View Post

I understand what you mean. It would just be nice if we stopped defining "winning" as what plays best to the prejudices of the Beltway press corps. My point is that regardless of how McCain personally feels about sending troops into battle, he is the chief supporter of a war Americans hate. They disagree with him on his plan to keep troops in Iraq. So who cares about how much of a heavy heart he has? Americans think he's wrong. How that plays in the media aside, I don't see what's any less potent about that argument

If you want people to stop thinking in bumper stickers, you need to stop writing in them yourself.

This is what bugs me so much recently about the utopian element Obama supporters keep playing to with their rhetoric and supposed plans.

Obama would not pledge to have the troops out before the end of his first term. He also has not pledged to have them out even if Iraq or the region becomes unstable. So how has Obama pledged to do anything to fulfill what the majority of those polled support? Oh wait... we asked them if they wanted cake, pie and pretty ponies and they said yes so John McCain hates America and lusts for blood.

So really what is gained by pointing at polls that ask people if they want utopia and they say yes?

How is McCain the "chief" support of this war? Are there wars we love versus wars we hate? I hate war but I hate being attacked and having our own people killed more. Thus there are TRADE OFFS. You know... trade offs... those things utopians like yourself never have to consider or ponder.

Where are the poll questions along the lines of would you end the war now even if it increased the likelihood of an attack on American soil?

Show me the poll questions where there is a negative consequence or concern for ending the war and then we can talk. Those polls reflect real considerations.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #44 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Is it really to a greater extent? Did I miss the McCain 'Tour of Duty' book that should be out about right now to help roll us into the convention and have him report for duty?

Again I think McCain, Republicans and pretty much anyone who is not for Obama would not only welcome the points you mention, they are probably dreaming of them.



Note to BRussell, this example above is why Republicans will be having wet dreams of Democrats bring up the issues you mentioned. Get an Addabox into some sort of large public mainstream forum and have him say he is for Obama. You can watch the hords run in the opposite direction.

BTW, Adda, shouldn't you be working much harder to make these points known? I suggest you start a blog on the Obama website, submit it to the Huffington Post, get this view of yours out there.


Please.... pretty please.... with sugar on top.... really... please..please...please.

Quote:
Note to BRussell, this example above is why Republicans will be having wet dreams of Democrats bring up the issues you mentioned. Get an Addabox into some sort of large public mainstream forum and have him say he is for Obama. You can watch the hords run in the opposite direction.

Dream on!
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #45 of 192
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Is it really to a greater extent? Did I miss the McCain 'Tour of Duty' book that should be out about right now to help roll us into the convention and have him report for duty?

Yeah you must have missed it.



Original release date: 1999, during first presidential run.
Re-release date: March 2008, during second presidential run.

Quote:
Again I think McCain, Republicans and pretty much anyone who is not for Obama would not only welcome the points you mention, they are probably dreaming of them.

In the same way that Kerry and his supporters were dreaming of the swiftboaters?
post #46 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post

Yeah you must have missed it.



Original release date: 1999, during first presidential run.
Re-release date: March 2008, during second presidential run.

Publishers re-release books when there will be interest. His book is about family and since his family happens to have served for multiple generations (including his own children serving in Iraq.) This is not the same as the Kerry book which has this as the opening line of the Amazon Editorial Review...

Historian Douglas Brinkley's insightful Tour of Duty covers John Kerry's heroic Vietnam service (where he won the Silver and Bronze Stars and three Purple Hearts) and the fervent antiwar campaign it eventually spawned.

If you want to argue that a book covering several generations of the McCain family, a family memoir is the same as a book proclaiming John Kerry a one man hero during Vietnam and the aftermath, then please do so as loudly and as publically as possible. Again I PREFER these comparisons. They might be analogous in your mind, but I do not think they would be in the mind of the voters.

Quote:
In the same way that Kerry and his supporters were dreaming of the swiftboaters?

Kerry was running under a false pretense and it was exposed. Clinton was running as the most experienced by being the wife of the president and it didn't hold. I don't think McCain is running as a one man Rambo wrecking crew. If you think I am wrong that is fine, but try to tar him with it and it will come closer to the truth than being a smear and would help him so I say bring it on.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #47 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by mydo View Post

This polling needs to focus on the swing states. States that aren't in play don't matter to some extent.

Take a look at the aggregate state by state poll data at pollster.com.

Obama leads by wide, and widening, margins in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Michigan. Smaller but growing leads in Ohio, Virginia and New Mexico, the latter two with a massive swing over the last six months. Basically a dead heat in Indiana, but also with recent big swings toward Obama.

Obama is leading but trending downward in Iowa and Colorado.

McCain has a narrow lead, for the moment, in Florida and Missouri, but the long term trend is all Obama. The one place McCain has unambiguously improved is Nevada, where he has a widening lead.

Of course, all of that is subject to change, but it is interesting to note that all of Obama's gains come squarely within the period that "the surge has been working."

If the "improvement" in Iraq actually puts Obama in a tough spot, it's only showing up in a few states, and for the vast majority of swing states it seems to have done just the opposite.
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post #48 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post

Yeah you must have missed it.



Original release date: 1999, during first presidential run.
Re-release date: March 2008, during second presidential run.

Ahhhhhahahahahaha. You pwn3d his ass and it probably took you, what, three minutes on Amazon?

My god the bullshit is running high. "But...but...but...Kerry did it too. McCain's is sooo totally different."

I absolutely love how arrogant these wingnuts can get. They somehow believe that McCain's positions, policies, and character as somehow unassailable and then go off on rants of mockery wrt to Kerry.

I just looked at some comments at Red State where they're all going off "didn't Kerry run on his war record in 2004? Hypocrits!" Well, yeah. And Republicans beat his ass down for doing so. So don't get all hot and bothered when we beat your candidate down too.

And has anyone noticed that EVERY SINGLE BANNER AD for McCain uses the photos of him on the cover of that book? Yeah, he's not running on his war record at all. Not at all.

Assholes. All of them.
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post #49 of 192
And could someone please tell the McCain camp to get it's "outrage" consistent please.

In one breath they say they're outraged by a statement from Wesley Clark that isn't all that offensive. And then they roll out a Swift Boat Vet to slam Clark for....wait for it....attacking a vet. LOL! So they're mad that they're getting supposedly "Swift Boated" while they actually employ a Swift Boater on their payroll.

And no one sees the irony here?

And now they're sending out other vets who are actually attacking Clark's record of service. Something Clark NEVER DID. He simply said serving the military and fighting a war are NOT necessarily prerequisites to be president. OMFG!

Could someone please tell me what's so goddamned offensive about that statement?
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #50 of 192
Looks like we're drifting into "buh, buh, the Swiftboat attacks on Kerry were true, and therefore righteous, whereas to suggest that flying a plane doesn't necessarily qualify one to be president is an outrageous attack on the sanctity of the military and all it stands for!" territory.

Objective reality supports my bitter, irrational prejudices is the last refuge of the douchbag.

Unfortunately, this all dovetails with the lazy media's preset narrative (Republicans are always stronger on national defense, liberals are always obliged to be apologetic for being pussies), so they'll go with it without a moment's thought. Obama, or anyone perceived as being in his camp, simply won't be allowed to say a single word about McCain's self presentation as having accrued "qualifications" for "being ready" by spending time in a prison camp, even though that actually makes no sense.

The psychedelically weird conversation they're having right now, as if Clark had sneeringly dismissed McCain as a coward or pissed on a flag, attests to that.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #51 of 192
A sensitive bunch aren't they?

A bit hair trigger too.

And all over what exactly?
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #52 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

A sensitive bunch aren't they?

A bit hair trigger too.

And all over what exactly?

I think they've lost the concept of content, even amongst themselves. "Outrage" is just something you do. If nothing substantiative presents itself, you just get outraged by whatever comes along, even if it's bland as toast.

I wonder if there's a point that this hand gets overplayed-- where most people conclude that Republicans are shrill hysterics with malfunctioning bladders.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #53 of 192
It now appears the McCain campaign is going into complete hysterics over Jim Webb's appearance on MSNBC last night. Jim Webb said McCain needed to "calm down".

That's right. He actually said the explosive and controversial words CALM and DOWN. Together in a sentence.

And now McCain's released some pretty funny statements. LOL!

Man, I thought McCain was a hero of war. I thought he was a man's man. He can't take a couple shots at his qualifications without losing it? He's running for fucking President for god's sake. He's this thin skinned?

Really?
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post #54 of 192
Okay, okay, okay. I'm going to pretend to be a Republican right now. Ready?

"You guys are so full of it. Obama can't even take a few shots at his race without becoming a whiny titty baby. Obama isn't a CHANGE™ candidate after all, is he? Just a regular politician. He gets all whiny when Fox refers to his wife as Baby Mama. Which isn't offensive at all.

Hello! God DAMN America!"
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post #55 of 192
Let's see, so the line is "If Obama can't control his "surrogates" (from saying common sensical, non-controversial things), how is he going to run the country?"

The well must be bone dry over there, at McCain HQ. I guess they know the "liberal media" will happily run with this.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #56 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

Ahhhhhahahahahaha. You pwn3d his ass and it probably took you, what, three minutes on Amazon?

My god the bullshit is running high. "But...but...but...Kerry did it too. McCain's is sooo totally different."

Dude you are totally hilarious. What is even more funny is how your blinders allow you to believe that normal actions can be given some sort of evil political motive due to the person being discussed belonging to those evil Republicans.

How much money would you care to bet that any previously published books by Barack Obama are being reissued this year?

Oh wait... that is... da eval!!!

No it isn't. People toss out the copies when the interest is high and stop the presses on them when there isn't any interest. No evil additives required.

Hey Barack Obama has published a few books as well. Some of them are clearly about his family and growing up where as others merely proclaim him as the savior.

If some Republicans go after Obama and prove he is not in fact our messiah or savior, I DO believe his campaign will fail. He does run on that premise and it is a false one.

Quote:
I absolutely love how arrogant these wingnuts can get. They somehow believe that McCain's positions, policies, and character as somehow unassailable and then go off on rants of mockery wrt to Kerry.

McCain is unassailable? What planet are you from?

Quote:
I just looked at some comments at Red State where they're all going off "didn't Kerry run on his war record in 2004? Hypocrits!" Well, yeah. And Republicans beat his ass down for doing so. So don't get all hot and bothered when we beat your candidate down too.

They beat his as with his record, with his commanders, with his medical officers, with the people who signed or refused to sign the forms for his medals, etc.

If Democrats can pull the same thing off with McCain I say do it. I say bring it on. I've said this about three times and from it you get unassailable which is just ridiculously stupid.

Quote:
And has anyone noticed that EVERY SINGLE BANNER AD for McCain uses the photos of him on the cover of that book? Yeah, he's not running on his war record at all. Not at all.

Assholes. All of them.

Can you save a few and post them? I'm personally a little tired of the smiling Obama pictures with halos of light around his head or as I personally highlighted... no fewer than 5-10 instances of the words change and hope somewhere in the photo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

And could someone please tell the McCain camp to get it's "outrage" consistent please.

In one breath they say they're outraged by a statement from Wesley Clark that isn't all that offensive. And then they roll out a Swift Boat Vet to slam Clark for....wait for it....attacking a vet. LOL! So they're mad that they're getting supposedly "Swift Boated" while they actually employ a Swift Boater on their payroll.

And no one sees the irony here?

And now they're sending out other vets who are actually attacking Clark's record of service. Something Clark NEVER DID. He simply said serving the military and fighting a war are NOT necessarily prerequisites to be president. OMFG!

Could someone please tell me what's so goddamned offensive about that statement?

He said getting shot down isn't a prerequisite for being president. Serving in the military, well it certain appeared to make him a leader when he was running now didn't it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Looks like we're drifting into "buh, buh, the Swiftboat attacks on Kerry were true, and therefore righteous, whereas to suggest that flying a plane doesn't necessarily qualify one to be president is an outrageous attack on the sanctity of the military and all it stands for!" territory.

Objective reality supports my bitter, irrational prejudices is the last refuge of the douchbag.

Unfortunately, this all dovetails with the lazy media's preset narrative (Republicans are always stronger on national defense, liberals are always obliged to be apologetic for being pussies), so they'll go with it without a moment's thought. Obama, or anyone perceived as being in his camp, simply won't be allowed to say a single word about McCain's self presentation as having accrued "qualifications" for "being ready" by spending time in a prison camp, even though that actually makes no sense.

The psychedelically weird conversation they're having right now, as if Clark had sneeringly dismissed McCain as a coward or pissed on a flag, attests to that.

What we are drifting into is you now ranting about weird phantoms attacking your rant.

I've begged for you to broadcast it as widely and clearly as possibly Addabox. I mean I don't know what more you can want. If your view is objective reality and everyone that is supposedly standing against it is just bitter douchbags, then what are those of us what are begging you to please spread your views far and wide.

I want Addabox as the guest columnist on Huffington Post. I want his blog to be the highlighted one at Obama's website. I want your views to be well known.

Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I think they've lost the concept of content, even amongst themselves. "Outrage" is just something you do. If nothing substantiative presents itself, you just get outraged by whatever comes along, even if it's bland as toast.

I wonder if there's a point that this hand gets overplayed-- where most people conclude that Republicans are shrill hysterics with malfunctioning bladders.

Can you at least beam be a feed from your planet because I am not seeing this hysterics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

It now appears the McCain campaign is going into complete hysterics over Jim Webb's appearance on MSNBC last night. Jim Webb said McCain needed to "calm down".

That's right. He actually said the explosive and controversial words CALM and DOWN. Together in a sentence.

And now McCain's released some pretty funny statements. LOL!

Man, I thought McCain was a hero of war. I thought he was a man's man. He can't take a couple shots at his qualifications without losing it? He's running for fucking President for god's sake. He's this thin skinned?

Really?

Links please... pretty please... with sugar on top.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #57 of 192
It also occurs to me that the McCain people must think "war hero" is literally all their candidate has going for him, if they're willing to get this jacked up about even the faintest trace of questioning the relevancy of that designation.
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post #58 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Dude you are totally hilarious. What is even more funny is how your blinders allow you to believe that normal actions can be given some sort of evil political motive due to the person being discussed belonging to those evil Republicans.

How much money would you care to bet that any previously published books by Barack Obama are being reissued this year?

Oh wait... that is... da eval!!!

No it isn't. People toss out the copies when the interest is high and stop the presses on them when there isn't any interest. No evil additives required.

Hey Barack Obama has published a few books as well. Some of them are clearly about his family and growing up where as others merely proclaim him as the savior.

If some Republicans go after Obama and prove he is not in fact our messiah or savior, I DO believe his campaign will fail. He does run on that premise and it is a false one.



McCain is unassailable? What planet are you from?



They beat his as with his record, with his commanders, with his medical officers, with the people who signed or refused to sign the forms for his medals, etc.

If Democrats can pull the same thing off with McCain I say do it. I say bring it on. I've said this about three times and from it you get unassailable which is just ridiculously stupid.



Can you save a few and post them? I'm personally a little tired of the smiling Obama pictures with halos of light around his head or as I personally highlighted... no fewer than 5-10 instances of the words change and hope somewhere in the photo.



He said getting shot down isn't a prerequisite for being president. Serving in the military, well it certain appeared to make him a leader when he was running now didn't it.



What we are drifting into is you now ranting about weird phantoms attacking your rant.

I've begged for you to broadcast it as widely and clearly as possibly Addabox. I mean I don't know what more you can want. If your view is objective reality and everyone that is supposedly standing against it is just bitter douchbags, then what are those of us what are begging you to please spread your views far and wide.

I want Addabox as the guest columnist on Huffington Post. I want his blog to be the highlighted one at Obama's website. I want your views to be well known.



Can you at least beam be a feed from your planet because I am not seeing this hysterics.



Links please... pretty please... with sugar on top.

Dude, what's with your obsession with "evil". Because no one around here has used the word evil once.

I think the word you're looking for is "stupid". Maybe "lame". Hell, even "hilarious" does the trick.

And go find your own links. I'm not your Google slave.
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post #59 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

He said getting shot down isn't a prerequisite for being president.

And? I'm still looking for the "attack". Can't seem to find it. Please help. Because there's certainly nothing to go apoplectic over like McCain has.

It's the over-reaction to, well nothing, that I find particularly amusing.
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post #60 of 192
Ahhh...this is frickin' hilarious.

When McCain accused Tammy Duckworth, an Iraq war veteran who lost both of her legs, of "cutting and running" he was asked whether or not he felt military service should be a part of politics he said, "Absolutely not."

Really?

Quote:
More pointedly, McCain himself has downplayed the role that military backgrounds play in election seasons. In February 2003, the Arizona Republican said "Absolutely not," when asked whether "military service inherently makes somebody better equipped to be commander-in-chief."

"Harry Truman was in the artillery in World War I, which was magnificent," he continued. "Ronald Reagan did most of his active duty in the studio lots in California. It might be a nice thing, but I absolutely don't believe that it's necessary."

One day it's cool.

The next day it's an "attack."
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post #61 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

Dude, what's with your obsession with "evil".

Somebody's been reading too much Hannity:

http://www.amazon.com/Deliver-Evil-D.../dp/0060582510

 

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post #62 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

Dude, what's with your obsession with "evil". Because no one around here has used the word evil once.

I think the word you're looking for is "stupid". Maybe "lame". Hell, even "hilarious" does the trick.

And go find your own links. I'm not your Google slave.

You are my google slave. Go fetch now if you want me to believe your claims.

Additionally if you want an editing job go apply at shawnjrulestheworld.com. ShawnJ will consider whether you are self-righteous enough to ignore the points people make, but still desire to pick at their word selection all while adding snarky, semi-drunken points periodically.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

Ahhh...this is frickin' hilarious.

When McCain accused Tammy Duckworth, an Iraq war veteran who lost both of her legs, of "cutting and running" he was asked whether or not he felt military service should be a part of politics he said, "Absolutely not."

Really?

One day it's cool.

The next day it's an "attack."

I think you should keep reading sources that keep comparing things that are not alike to make you feel better about this.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #63 of 192
Oh look, thankfully someone is making the same point as me, and additionally, makes it better. (It is almost like they are paid to write for a living.)

Quote:
Third, there were about 200 members of Swift Boat Vets for Truth. Maybe some of them had faulty memories, or were down-the-line Republicans, or just plain didn't like Kerry. But all of them? Many Americans looked at the sheer volume and detail of their stories of Kerry, and concluded that where there was smoke, there was most likely fire.

If we see hundreds of men who served with McCain come out and denounce him, the American people will reconsider their opinion of him, as well. But I would not hold my breath waiting for that to happen...

Exactly! If the Democrats can find similar statements, from similar people, I say bring it on. I doubt the likelihood of it though and so does everyone with more than half a brain.

Then we can ask...who is smearing whom?

Quote:
There have been only two incidents in which people officially associated with McCain have done anything approaching what Thomas and Wolfe predicted those dastardly, conniving Republicans would inevitably do. In February, a conservative talk radio host speaking at a McCain rally made reference to “Barack Hussein Obama.” McCain immediately condemned the statement, leading the embittered and embarrassed professional yacker to complain that McCain “threw me under the bus.” The only other smear-worthy episode occurred in March, when the McCain campaign suspended a low-level aide who provided a link on his Twitter account to a video featuring the rants of Obama's former pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright. Heavy stuff, to be sure.

Versus....

Quote:
It’s curious how anyone could argue that a man with such visceral understanding of the capacity for what America’s enemies will do to our men and women in uniform doesn’t fully appreciate the cost of war. But even more troubling is the unmistakable pattern of these smears, all of them unsubtly alleging that McCain is an unhinged, mentally unstable warmonger who would deploy soldiers capriciously because he hasn’t truly experienced the horrors of ground battle. Indeed, the claims of these four men — and the short period of time in which they were all uttered — are so similar in tone that one would be foolish not to at least consider the possibility they were coordinated by the Obama campaign.

Nevertheless, the fears of Obama supporters that their candidate lies eternally vulnerable to GOP smears exists only in their fevered imaginations. The evidence of dirty Republican tricks has been utterly absent this campaign season. And if anyone has tried to smear Barack Obama in the way that Thomas, Wolfe and other Democratic partisans allege, it was not the Republican National Committee, but rather Hillary Rodham Clinton and her surrogates. In February, the Drudge Report claimed that the Clinton campaign circulated photos of Obama in a traditional East African turban and robe, with the message that the images showed him “dressed.” Asked if there was any truth to the smear that Obama is a Muslim, she infamously replied, “As far as I know,” it wasn’t the case. After the Indiana and North Carolina primaries, she said the results showed that "Sen. Obama's support among working, hard-working Americans, white Americans, is weakening again.”

The belief that “the Republican Party has been successfully scaring voters since 1968” is a comforting salve for Democrats. After all, it’s much easier for them to demonize conservatives than consider that the reason for their electoral defeats may lie with liberal ideas. Please don’t take that as a "smear.”

Read'em and weep.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #64 of 192
Again. What is it exactly that Clark said that was so goddamn offensive?
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #65 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Oh look, thankfully someone is making the same point as me, and additionally, makes it better. (It is almost like they are paid to write for a living.)



Exactly! If the Democrats can find similar statements, from similar people, I say bring it on. I doubt the likelihood of it though and so does everyone with more than half a brain.

Then we can ask...who is smearing whom?



Versus....
Read'em and weep.

I'm going to channel SDW here...

The National Review? Politico? Please.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #66 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

I'm going to channel SDW here...

The National Review? Politico? Please.



Mitt Romney, reduced to the cruise line circuit. continue...
post #67 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

I'm going to channel SDW here...

The National Review? Politico? Please.

You do realize that about a third of your posts in this thread are you caricaturing people. Clearly you prefer strawmen to reality.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #68 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Oh look, thankfully someone is making the same point as me, and additionally, makes it better. (It is almost like they are paid to write for a living.)



Exactly! If the Democrats can find similar statements, from similar people, I say bring it on. I doubt the likelihood of it though and so does everyone with more than half a brain.

Then we can ask...who is smearing whom?



Versus....



Read'em and weep.

"Weep"? For that pathetic exercise in ludicrous equivalency? How about "snort derisively"?

Things like "Obama is a Muslim" doesn't count because the McCain camp can claim innocence while the party hacks fan the flames-- standard Republican operating procedure.

Meanwhile, simply asking if a military background means you are the better candidate apparently borders on depravity.

It's a fact that McCain is the candidate that seems most comfortable with military solutions to international problems (and by "most comfortable", I mean "appears to be champing at the bit").
It seems perfectly reasonable to then wonder if his military experience has actually made him loath to reach for that option, as he claims, or not.

Is it your contention, Nick, that wondering aloud about McCain's reluctance to exercise force is some kind of beyond the pale slur?

As far as Kerry goes, you must know by now that the idea that "200" guys who "served with" Kerry had direct, observational things to say about his performance is simply a stupid lie, yeah? That, given the animosity and bitterness that surrounded and surrounds the war in Viet Nam, rounding up 200 vets who were in Viet Nam at the same time as Kerry who would be willing to say mean things about him isn't exactly rocket science?

Oh yeah, you could care less what's true or not, you just like to spin your little webs on teh internets. Crow, cock man, crow!
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #69 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

You do realize that about a third of your posts in this thread are you caricaturing people. Clearly you prefer strawmen to reality.

No. Clearly you prefer to supporting silly "outrage" over... absolutely nothing. Far more telling than the good time I'm having mocking you guys.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #70 of 192
Trumptman won't let his eyes view this revelation, so I'll post the whole thing anyway...

What Gen. Clark Actually Said

Quote:
Media Falsely Claim Clark Attacked McCain's Service

Clark Praised McCain's Service, While Saying it Wasn't a "Qualification to be President"

Washington, DC -- Today Media Matters for America called on members of the media to set the record straight concerning the remarks of retired Gen. Wesley Clark on Sen. John McCain's military record -- a record Clark praised while also saying that it wasn't a "qualification to be president." Many in the media have falsely claimed that Gen. Clark attacked McCain's military service in comments made during the June 29 edition of CBS' Face the Nation.

Few have reported the entirety of what Clark actually said, including his praise of McCain's service, or that his comments actually repeated CBS Face the Nation host Bob Schieffer's own words in response to Schieffer's statement that unlike McCain, Obama has not "ridden in a fighter plane and gotten shot down."

"The media driven notion that Gen. Clark somehow attacked Sen. McCain's military service is patently false. In fact, the opposite is true -- he praised it. This controversy was created and fueled by a media unwilling to live up to the basic journalistic standard of accuracy and thoroughness," said Karl Frisch, a spokesman for Media Matters. "It is a fact that Gen. Clark praised Sen. McCain's military service while also saying that such service is not a 'qualification to be president.' The media have a duty not only to Gen. Clark but the public to correct the record."

What did Clark actually say?

Many in the media have cropped Clark's June 29 Face the Nation interview to the short soundbite: "I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president." Those cropping the interview make two serious errors. First, they ignore that Clark was repeating Face the Nation host Bob Schieffer's words in response to Schieffer's statement that, unlike McCain, Obama has not "ridden in a fighter plane and gotten shot down."

Second, they ignore that shortly before that part of Clark's exchange with Schieffer, Clark praised McCain's service: "I certainly honor his service as a prisoner of war. He was a hero to me and to hundreds of thousands of millions of others in the Armed Forces as a prisoner of war. He has been a voice on the Senate Armed Services Committee, and he has traveled all over the world."

Clark continued: "But he hasn't held executive responsibility. That large squadron in Air -- in the Navy that he commanded, it wasn't a wartime squadron. He hasn't been there and ordered the bombs to fall. He hasn't seen what it's like when diplomats come in and say, 'I don't know whether we're going to be able to get this point through or not. Do you want to take the risk? What about your reputation? How do we handle it publicly?' He hasn't made those calls, Bob."

But it's Media Matters, what the fuck do they know.
post #71 of 192
This is the quote from McCain spokesman Brian Rogers:

Quote:
If you didn't think this was a coordinated attack on John McCain's credentials before, it's clear now that it is. Barack Obama's surrogates are telling the McCain campaign to "calm down" about attacks on his military record? Seriously? Now somehow Wes Clark's attacks are John McCain's fault? It's absurd. If Barack Obama can't control his own surrogate operation, how can he be trusted to run the country?

This is from the comments at TPM, and it's pretty funny.


Quote:
Quote:
If you didn't think this was a coordinated attack on John McCain's credentials before, it's clear now that it is.

OK. The Obama campaign is controlling what Wes Clark and Jim Webb are saying about McSame.

Quote:
If Barack Obama can't control his own surrogate operation...

OK. The Obama campaign is not controlling what Wes Clark and Jim Webb are saying about McSame.

Huh???

It's like "making sense" has become an actual liability, over on the right.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #72 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

You do realize that about a third of your posts in this thread are you caricaturing people. Clearly you prefer strawmen to reality.

The Strawman here is someone trying to make basically nothing into something and then attempting to run with it.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #73 of 192
Man, these guys have really gone of the range into looney land. Here's another statement from them...

"Apparently Barack Obama now thinks that smear attacks on John McCains military service are fair game."

Smear? Attacks?

AGAIN, CAN SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME HOW CLARK'S STATEMENT WAS A SMEAR OR AN ATTACK?

No one seems to be able to really answer this question other than...John Kerry, John Kerry, John Kerry.
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post #74 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Obama would not pledge to have the troops out before the end of his first term. He also has not pledged to have them out even if Iraq or the region becomes unstable. So how has Obama pledged to do anything to fulfill what the majority of those polled support? Oh wait... we asked them if they wanted cake, pie and pretty ponies and they said yes so John McCain hates America and lusts for blood.

Barack Obama's plan is to bring every combat brigade home within 16 months.

His plan squarely aligns with what the American people want. Whatever McCain's plan is for bringing most of our troops home, it taint anytime within two years.

Quote:
Bring Our Troops Home
Obama will immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq. He will remove one to two combat brigades each month, and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

So really what is gained by pointing at polls that ask people if they want utopia and they say yes?

Bringing most of our troops home from Iraq within 1-2 years isn't Utopian.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

How is McCain the "chief" support of this war?

Excuse my imprecise language:

"Supporter of this war" meaning supportive of a continued presence in Iraq of most of our troops, a position expressly opposite to the desires of the American people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Where are the poll questions along the lines of would you end the war now even if it increased the likelihood of an attack on American soil?

Show me the poll questions where there is a negative consequence or concern for ending the war and then we can talk. Those polls reflect real considerations.

What?

Why are the only reliable poll questions those that assume ending the war is a bad idea?

Let's have a question that asks "would you end the war if the sky would rain freaking skittles?"
post #75 of 192
Statement from a McCain surrogate:

Quote:
“General Clark probably wouldn’t get that much praise from this group. I can’t speak for them, but we all know that General Clark, as high-ranking as he is, his record in his last command I think was somewhat less than stellar.”

We've all learned that when a Republican is critical of a Democrat it's perfectly fine. I'm sure that bitch-cunt Andrea Mitchell will be hyperventillating all over the news tonight for this comment....wait....sorry, I was living in an alternate universe there for a second.

I love this quote from John Cole:

Quote:
At some point I am going to internalize the notion that you can’t be patriotic unless you are a Republican, and unless your military service is used to elect Republicans, your opinions don’t matter. Right now, though, I just don’t understand it.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #76 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

Statement from a McCain surrogate:



We've all learned that when a Republican is critical of a Democrat it's perfectly fine. I'm sure that bitch-cunt Andrea Mitchell will be hyperventillating all over the news tonight for this comment....wait....sorry, I was living in an alternate universe there for a second.

I love this quote from John Cole:

Jesus. This does get tedious. You'd think even our debased punditry might be a little embarrassed, at this point.

I wonder how many people watching this side-show on the cable gab fests even know or care what Clark said, originally? Your left with the impression he tore into McCain like a madman. Does anyone ever stop and review actual words, or is it just off to the races?
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #77 of 192
We won the toddler vote!
post #78 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

He gets all whiny when Fox refers to his wife as Baby Mama. Which isn't offensive at all.

Spin on, my left coast friend. Faux outrage to match Faux news.

You did catch the part where Michelle Obama referred to the baby mama/ baby daddy thing, right? You know, in her own voice. With her own words?

Thought so.
"Stand Up for Chuck"
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post #79 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

Spin on, my left coast friend. Faux outrage to match Faux news.

You did catch the part where Michelle Obama referred to the baby mama/ baby daddy thing, right? You know, in her own voice. With her own words?

Thought so.

So you have no opinion on the matter of McCain's hissy fit over...well...I'm not sure exactly...but he sure is huffing and puffing like a Democrat 7 years ago. Maybe you can explain the controversy to me. No one else around seems to be able to tell me what exactly is so offensive about Clark's remark?

I understand that you're absolutely obsessed with Reverend Wright and Michelle Obama's patriotism, but "my babie's daddy" and "Baby Mama" are two completely different things. And you know it. The later refers to black single mothers who don't know who the father is. That's the street definition anyway.

But please. Spin away. And I'm looking forward to WHY I'm supposed to be troubled by Wes Clark's "attack" or "smear" or whatever it is at this hour.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #80 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

My babies daddy and Baby Mama are two completely different things. And you know it.

Oh, the great Northgate, all knowing arbiter of the black street lexicon.

Here you go. VIDEO.

Please, Northgate. You can do better than splitting hairs over ebonics.
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