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AT&T announces iPhone 3G plans, 8 a.m. launch time on July 11 - Page 7

post #241 of 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4metta View Post

Welcome to the wonderful world of a strong WiFi signal. It's faster and will serve you better in the end. AND all iPhones can use it.

Where it's available and when it's not private. It does have the advantage of using less power than the 3G or even 2G radio, but it's not ubiquitous. I'd rather have 3G and use WiFi when applicable as opposed to have EDGE and WiFi. In many cases I won't even use WiFi because it's not secure enough.
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post #242 of 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Where it's available and when it's not private. It does have the advantage of using less power than the 3G or even 2G radio, but it's not ubiquitous. I'd rather have 3G and use WiFi when applicable as opposed to have EDGE and WiFi. In many cases I won't even use WiFi because it's not secure enough.

Oh it's a nice little bonus to have, if/when it works well enough to make a difference and that remains to be seen. And it would be better if you are not getting raped by AT&T and then having to deal with their customer service (among the lowest in the industry) in the process. No thanks. Wifi and Edge suit me better for now.
post #243 of 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4metta View Post

Sure it is because they won't be guaranteeing even that. Wait and see the speeds that occur. They won't be fast enough to make dealing with AT&T's ripoff rates feel any better. I can assure you this pricing issue will not die down. Unlocking is the way to go.

As previously stated, they can't possibly guarantee a minimum speed. There are too many factors they can't control to make such a statement. And I've also noted that my 3G speeds with AT&T are usually faster than they have stated, but that a personal avaerage and shouldn't be taken as a guarantee either.

As for unlocking, do you mean "non-contractual"? There is currently no known unlocking for the v2.0 firmware in the US. The full retail price only gets you free of a contract, not an unlocked iPhone. On top of that, there is no other major carrier in the US that can utilize UTMS. The only valid reason for having a 3G iPhone that is unlocked is for international travel.
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post #244 of 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

As previously stated, they can't possibly guarantee a minimum speed. There are too many factors they can't control to make such a statement. And I've also noted that my 3G speeds with AT&T are usually faster than they have stated, but that a personal avaerage and shouldn't be taken as a guarantee either.

As for unlocking, do you mean "non-contractual"? There is currently no known unlocking for the v2.0 firmware in the US. The full retail price only gets you free of a contract, not an unlocked iPhone. On top of that, there is no other major carrier in the US that can utilize UTMS. The only valid reason for having a 3G iPhone that is unlocked is for international travel.

Use your favorite search engine.
post #245 of 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4metta View Post

Use your favorite search engine.

Known wasn't a good word choice. It can be done, but it's the same simple method as the v1.x unlockign software; there is no simple method to unlock v2.0 right now. Regardless, what exactly is the point you are trying to make about an unlocked iPhone to stick it to AT&T. You are either paying the full retail price for a 3G iPhone or paying AT&T for a 3G iPhone and one month of service plus activation fee before canceling (this saves you $124 on the full retail price). In the end you have phone that can not use T-Mobile's 3G network (when they get it up) or the CDMA2000 networks of Verizon and Sprint. What exactly is your point about unlocking it? You have not made a sensible point yet. Even a simple paragraph alluding to buying a used 2G iPhone to use on T-Mobile's network would have made sense.
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post #246 of 263
[sigh] Please use the net. You are asking questions that the unlocking community already have answered.
post #247 of 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Known wasn't a good word choice. It can be done, but it's the same simple method as the v1.x unlockign software; there is no simple method to unlock v2.0 right now. Regardless, what exactly is the point you are trying to make about an unlocked iPhone to stick it to AT&T. You are either paying the full retail price for a 3G iPhone or paying AT&T for a 3G iPhone and one month of service plus activation fee before canceling (this saves you $124 on the full retail price). In the end you have phone that can not use T-Mobile's 3G network (when they get it up) or the CDMA2000 networks of Verizon and Sprint. What exactly is your point about unlocking it? You have not made a sensible point yet. Even a simple paragraph alluding to buying a used 2G iPhone to use on T-Mobile's network would have made sense.

I've heard that if you cancel your contract within 30 days then you have to give the iPhone back to AT&T. If this is true then you will actually pay another month by if you want to keep your iPhone so the saving might drop to $50.
post #248 of 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4metta View Post

[sigh] Please use the net. You are asking questions that the unlocking community already have answered.

So you have no answer as to how "unlocking is the way to go" to avoid AT&T's raping?


Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

I've heard that if you cancel your contract within 30 days then you have to give the iPhone back to AT&T. If this is true then you will actually pay another month by if you want to keep your iPhone so the saving might drop to $50.

They moved the trial period from 14 days to 30 days, that means you can have 'backsies' within that period and not pay the contract cancelation fee. However, you do have to return the equipment to get that option.

You can always say you broke it, lost it or whatever and get the option to cancel it for $175, which is $124 cheaper than the non-contracted 8GB and 16GB price. After that the fee apparently falls by $5 per month; I've found that it's usually more financially more sound to accept the contract when there is heavily subsidized HW involved.
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post #249 of 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4metta View Post

Sure it is because they won't be guaranteeing even that. Wait and see the speeds that occur. They won't be fast enough to make dealing with AT&T's ripoff rates feel any better. I can assure you this pricing issue will not die down. Unlocking is the way to go.

AT&T has been tested as having the fastest 3G network.

"In tests, AT&T's network left its competitors (Verizon, Sprint) in the digital dust, with average download speeds of 755Kbit/sec. and average upload speeds of 484Kbit/sec. The peak download speed was 1.6Mbit/sec. It connected in just 3.0 seconds and loaded the test Web page in 0.228 seconds."

Review: Which 3G network is the best?

In your allegations of AT&T "rip off rates", exactly who offers better unlimited 3G rates than what AT&T is offering?
post #250 of 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

AT&T has been tested as having the fastest 3G network.

"In tests, AT&T's network left its competitors (Verizon, Sprint) in the digital dust, with average download speeds of 755Kbit/sec. and average upload speeds of 484Kbit/sec. The peak download speed was 1.6Mbit/sec. It connected in just 3.0 seconds and loaded the test Web page in 0.228 seconds."

Review: Which 3G network is the best?


Were those tests done on an actual iPhone? Nope. And it's still not faster than Wifi.

Quote:
In your allegations of AT&T "rip off rates", exactly who offers better unlimited 3G rates than what AT&T is offering?

Irrelevant when I already discussed WiFi is a better option and easily accessed option for myself and most others and 2G speeds are not that significantly slower (just watch the demo, it's not even a minute difference). Thereby making paying additional charges that AT&T is charging for 3G data plan (while also removing the included text messaging in the 1st gen plan) unnecessary and excessive. My unlocked iPhone will be used on TMobile like many of my friends. And there's no need to deal with AT&T's lousy customer service in the process.
post #251 of 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4metta View Post

Were those tests done on an actual iPhone? Nope. And it's still not faster than Wifi.

WiFi is fine if you have access to it at a given location.

Quote:
Irrelevant when I already discussed WiFi is a better option and easily accessed option for myself and most others and 2G speeds are not that significantly slower (just watch the demo, it's not even a minute difference).

It is relevant to some people that aren't yourself, you're quite deft in ignoring the fact that open WiFi coverage is generally poor to nonexistent in many areas.

It's curious that you'd wave off the load time being twice as long as if it's not important. The difference is a lot greater than the difference between WiFi and 3G, which you're quite happy to honk about that. That looks quite hypocritically biased if I might say so.
post #252 of 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

WiFi is fine if you have access to it at a given location.




It is relevant to some people that aren't yourself, you're quite deft in ignoring the fact that open WiFi coverage is generally poor to nonexistent in many areas.

I am fortunate enough to live in a city where it abounds. But I am also astounded at how little people know about the available Wifi hotspots where they live.

Quote:
It's curious that you'd wave off the load time being twice as long as if it's not important. The difference is a lot greater than the difference between WiFi and 3G, which you're quite happy to honk about. That looks quite hypocritically biased if I might say so.

Because many people will not even have 3G in their area but will still be charged the 3G data plan rate by AT&T. That is my understanding. If I am wrong someone please correct me. If they didn't get charged it wouldn't be as much as an issue but then you go back to the fact that Wifi is also available in many areas where people will be using their 3G phones. So why bother?
post #253 of 263
Its available now online on O2.

http://o2.co.uk/iphone/paymonthly
post #254 of 263
Just a matter of time before Zibri and others work their magic...
post #255 of 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4metta View Post

Just a matter of time before Zibri works his magic...

That is the first sensible thing you've said. I'm figuring an offical zero-day Jailbreak and a SW unlocking within 7 days.
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post #256 of 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4metta View Post

Were those tests done on an actual iPhone? Nope. And it's still not faster than Wifi.

Yes a notebook is going to process a 3G signal faster than the iPhone can. That's more a limitation of iPhone hardware and not 3G itself. But the same principle applies to WiFi, its much faster on a notebook than the iPhone.

Quote:
Irrelevant when I already discussed WiFi is a better option and easily accessed option for myself and most others and 2G speeds are not that significantly slower (just watch the demo, it's not even a minute difference). Thereby making paying additional charges that AT&T is charging for 3G data plan (while also removing the included text messaging in the 1st gen plan) unnecessary and excessive. My unlocked iPhone will be used on TMobile like many of my friends. And there's no need to deal with AT&T's lousy customer service in the process.

You are the one who called ATT a rip off. How is it irrelevant to compare their rates to the rates of other carriers?

WiFi is only a better option if you actually have access to it.

I know how slow EDGE is, I use it everyday. EDGE is fine if you are downloading largely text based web page, painfully slow for downloading pages with heavy graphics and pictures, and useless for downloading media.

So far having been with AT&T for a year I've never dealt with customer service. I've never actually walked into an AT&T store in relation to my subscription.
post #257 of 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4metta View Post

I am fortunate enough to live in a city where it abounds. But I am also astounded at how little people know about the available Wifi hotspots where they live.

I live in NYC. There are a bounty of WiFi hotspots everywhere. There are enough hotspots that I am on WiFi a great deal of the time. But they still are not as reliable or ubiquitous as mobile broadband.

Quote:
Because many people will not even have 3G in their area but will still be charged the 3G data plan rate by AT&T. That is my understanding. If I am wrong someone please correct me. If they didn't get charged it wouldn't be as much as an issue but then you go back to the fact that Wifi is also available in many areas where people will be using their 3G phones. So why bother?

AT&T 3G will cover 270 of the largest US markets. Which is where the far majority of the US population lives. Its mostly the far exurban and rural areas that are left out.
post #258 of 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

That is the first sensible thing you've said. I'm figuring an offical zero-day Jailbreak and a SW unlocking within 7 days.

The question is how do you actually get the phone to unlock it.
post #259 of 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keda View Post

I did read the text fully, and think it is horse shit.

If I were move to an iPhone form my current phone, it would 100% benefit ATT. My monthly cost would jump and I would need to start my 2 years of servitude from scratch. While this might not be bait and switch (thanks counselor), it sure seems shady.

Apple's site lists the base price as $199 w/ a 2-yr plan. It says nothing about upgrade eligibility or costs. Both Apple and ATT have publicized the $199 price...again w/no mention of a subsidy. Who are the "we" that has know of the subsidy? I searched Apple and CNN--nada. The only mention of cost that I found was $199 & $299.

There has been no publication of the "eligibility" periods. I am a reluctant ATT customer, and have been putting up w/their crap service/coverage for a while now because I'd like to get an iPhone. My old phone died in December, and I was forced to buy a replacement. There was no mention of this action adding $200 to my future iPhone purchase. I bought the most basic model, so that I could minimize my financial hit. I also specifically told the ATT rep of my plan to replace the phone, and was told it wouldn't be a problem.

Jason Chen of Gizmodo spoke with AT&T a couple times today and got a logical answer that me and others had been telling you.

It looks like our the rep at AT&T gave us the wrong info despite double-checking the situation. If you recently sold your phone but haven't purchased another phone through AT&T with a subsidy and renewed a contract, then you're still eligible for a subsidized iPhone 3G at $199/$299. Even if you shoved your SIM into a temporary phone while you wait out the launch. If you have purchased a new phone with a subsidy, you're not eligible for another subsidy. Glad we cleared this up! Sorry for the scare. Our original post is after the jump, struck out.

http://gizmodo.com/5023575/people-wh...one-3g-upgrade This is common sense, I hope you had your new AT&T phone less than 30 days and returned it, because that $200 premium or near-$175 cancelation charge will be in effect. I can only hope you understand why you have to pay more with an ineligible contract and why "2-year contract" appended with the price of the device states the the basic terms of the subsidy without necessary saying the word subsidy.
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post #260 of 263
This is why you should get everything in writing. Had the agent wrote and signed that you could get the cheep phone without screwing up the iPhone price you would have at least had a leg to stand on. They may have said the agent was not allowed to do that but chances are they would let you win rather than go to court.
post #261 of 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4metta View Post

Welcome to the wonderful world of a strong WiFi signal. It's faster and will serve you better in the end. AND all iPhones can use it. I'm sorry your net connection at work is slow. Hopefully you will gain more hotspot access. For many of us there are fast hotspots everywhere. I have a fast one at work, campus and home as well as the malls, etc.




Didn't say "don't want" I said "don't/won't need".



Sure it is because they won't be guaranteeing even that. Wait and see the speeds that occur. They won't be fast enough to make dealing with AT&T's ripoff rates feel any better. I can assure you this pricing issue will not die down. Unlocking is the way to go.

The reviews say you're wrong.

Mossberg:

Quote:
In my tests, in Washington and New York, I got data speeds mostly ranging between 200 and 500 kilobits per second. By comparison, the original iPhone, tested in the same spots at the same time, mostly got cellular data speeds between 70 and 150 kbps on AT&T’s old EDGE network. The new iPhone typically was between three and five times as fast as the old one.

Baig:

Quote:
]Apple's claims that 3G speeds are twice as fast as Edge were confirmed by my own download tests. It generally took 10 to 30 seconds to load popular websites through 3G, a lot zippier than when I accessed the sites on Edge. Oddly, parts of the pages sometimes showed up first on the older iPhone screen. But pages always finished loading on the 3G device first, often by a half minute or more. Wi-Fi, if available, is still the fastest method for downloads.

Those are real-world tests. 30 full seconds? That's nothing minor in terms of speed. And don't tell us about hotspots. They're out there, but they are far from ubiquitous (especially free ones).
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post #262 of 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Those are real-world tests. 30 full seconds? That's nothing minor in terms of speed. And don't tell us about hotspots. They're out there, but they are far from ubiquitous (especially free ones).

Even if it's just 5 seconds, that adds up to a lot more viewed webpages and faster streaming of video.

As for WiFi, the cheap routers used at coffee shops can get bogged down quickly. Now with so many phones with WiFI coming out this problem will continue to get worse. While there are routers designed specifically for commercial hotspots, there are very few places with free WiFi that seem to use them.
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post #263 of 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Jason Chen of Gizmodo spoke with AT&T a couple times today and got a logical answer that me and others had been telling you.

It looks like our the rep at AT&T gave us the wrong info despite double-checking the situation. If you recently sold your phone but haven't purchased another phone through AT&T with a subsidy and renewed a contract, then you're still eligible for a subsidized iPhone 3G at $199/$299. Even if you shoved your SIM into a temporary phone while you wait out the launch. If you have purchased a new phone with a subsidy, you're not eligible for another subsidy. Glad we cleared this up! Sorry for the scare. Our original post is after the jump, struck out.

http://gizmodo.com/5023575/people-wh...one-3g-upgrade This is common sense, I hope you had your new AT&T phone less than 30 days and returned it, because that $200 premium or near-$175 cancelation charge will be in effect. I can only hope you understand why you have to pay more with an ineligible contract and why "2-year contract" appended with the price of the device states the the basic terms of the subsidy without necessary saying the word subsidy.


Many consumers who are interested in buying their first iPhone (me) have not been dissecting the finer points of ATT/Apple's sales pitch. Since the iPhone was introduced, the price (199/299) has been listed in nearly every press release, news article, ad, and keynote. No amount of quotes or explanation will change the fact that a significant number of people have been surprised by reality of the 3G's pricing. I see the posts here, other forums, and stories on other sites. Go no further than AI to read about some of the mainstream press coverage: http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...users_407.html . While this may not constitute false advertising in legal terms, I'd say that the ads have been intentionally misleading.

As I mentioned, I did not "upgrade" my previous phone. The thing died, and I had to get a replacement (big f'u Chris_CA...use some sense). The year is 2008, and cell phones are part of our daily lives. So, knowing that the new iPhone was just around the corner, I called ATT and asked about the best way to replace my dead phone. What I was told, apparently, had no bearing on reality, and I am penalized for being a long-standing ATT customer.

Those that have responded to my earlier posts seemed to think people like myself are whining or confused. No, we really get it, and are irritated.

ATT should hire some of you, as I think it is you who are confused and too accustomed to the taste of Koolaid. Lets be clear about the situation that myself and others are in:

- We have a contract with ATT
- Despite our relative level of satisfaction with the company and because of a 3rd party's product, we would like to extend and increase the monthly cost of this contract
- Because of our status as existing customers, we are told that we must pay a $200 premium over those who walk in off the street (Why do I say premium? Because the advertised price was not advertised as a subsidized cost. Therefore, the ATT customer has a perceived base-price increase of $200)
- In some cases, this directly contradicts the buying advice that was provided by ATT

This is pretty straight forward. If the model were applied to almost any other industry, people would be outraged. I will vote with my dollars and not buy an iPhone. Again, I understand...and still think it is horse shit.
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