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Apple allegedly sanctioning Rogers for iPhone rates

post #1 of 130
Thread Starter 
After raising the ire of its customers with what are believed to be overly expensive iPhone 3G plans, Canadian provider Rogers Wireless is allegedly being punished by Apple with fewer shipments.

Blogger Daniel Smith claims multiple sources, including a senior Rogers representative, claim that Apple has diverted a significant amount of its initial iPhone 3G Canadian deliveries to Europe in retribution for the carrier's steep rate plans, which at similar prices offer a third fewer minutes and limited data compared to AT&T.

Stores may be getting just 10 to 20 iPhones each and are being told to "exercise caution" not to promise ample stock on launch day, according to the rumors.

At the same time, Rogers is also claimed to be promptly firing the part-time staff that had been hired to handle an expected deluge of customers at some stores.

With the story breaking on the weekend, neither Apple nor Rogers officials have commented on the allegations. However, the provider in recent days has faced a steadily mounting backlash against its planned rates with approximately 42,000 would-be iPhone buyers signing a highly-publicized petition for lower rates that they plan to deliver to Rogers in person.

Rogers itself has already made an about-face regarding some of its plans. A statement issued to the press clarified that customers will now be able to pick and choose from separate voice and data plans as well as to order extras such as caller ID a la carte rather than as part of mandatory $15 and $20 value packs.

A separate statement from Rogers has also alluded to "tweaking" data plan sizes, although it stops short of offering the unlimited data demanded by some of the company's critics.

While readers should take caution in accepting the rumor at face value, at least one other carrier has been forced to loosen its Internet access restrictions after facing similar criticism: TeliaSonera has been pushed into extending its Swedish iPhone plans with an unlimited data option after previously giving even its highest-end iPhone plan just 1GB of data per month.
post #2 of 130
Sounds like Apple deserves a pat on the back if true.
post #3 of 130
The last paragraph is just not true. The option to add unlimited data for 199SEK more was always there, and charges for using more than the allocated amount of data were and are capped at 9SEK per day ($1.5). The prices are still awful compared to the Netherlands, Hong Kong and Switzerland, however.

/Adrian
post #4 of 130
They need one of those sanctions in Australia. Our plans are no better.
post #5 of 130
What really must be bugging Apple is that they have now completely and utterly failed to transform the Canadian market in any way -- Canadian users looking for unlimited data plans will be buying Samsung and RIM/Blackberry devices, because not only has Rogers dropped the ball, they have managed to deftly drop-kick it into a giant cesspool of their own making. Personally, I'm very glad not to have waited for an iPhone -- Rogers can actually be a half-decent company, but it will probably be a long, long wait until they fire the tremendous idiots who prevented the iPhone from making any inroads in Canada.

On the plus side, what's good for RIM is good for Canada :-)
post #6 of 130
One thing that should be clarified is that it has since become clear that the firings were not company wide. Instead, it appears that only certain dealership channels (a type of franchisee division) hired additional help for the launch, mostly in urban areas. And then only some of the principals of these dealerships decided to let their new staffers go before they even started, because of whatever stock reductions have come down the lines. AI might want to change the text to reflect this as well, as one thing Rogers corporate can't be blamed for is firing people it never hired.

(Unless of course your line of reasoning = Rogers gouges customers>Apple pulls units and funding for extra help>Rogers corporate pulls funding for extra help to Dealerships>Dealerships fire extra help. In that case, carry on

Daniel Smith
Smithereens Blog
post #7 of 130
As much as I would like to believe this rumour (since it's what canadians have hoped for), it sounds pretty unlikely to me. This is just not the way business works AFAIK.

If Apple made a contract with Rogers to sell the iPhone and unlimited data was important to Apple, then they would have put it in the contract. If that was true, then Rogers would be in violation of contract, and the "punishment" would be a lot more than this. Lawyers would already be involved because Rogers would have essentially already broken the contract.

If Apple didn't make a contract with Rogers that forced them to offer unlimited data (the most likely case), then Apple's "punishment" of Rogers for following standard business procedures and executing a valid, legal contract, is not only childish, but likely to get Apple into hot water for failing to hold up *its* end of the contract.

This whole thing sounds like a fantasy to me.
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post #8 of 130
The word "sanction" has a different meaning depending on how it is used in a sentence.

I'm no English teacher, but the first time I read the headline, I read it as "Apple approves of Rogers for iPhone plans".

Here's the definition of "sanction" from the OS X Dictionary:

sanction
noun
1 trade sanctions penalty, punishment, deterrent; punitive action, discipline, restriction; embargo, ban, prohibition, boycott. antonym reward.
2 the scheme has the sanction of the court authorization, consent, leave, permission, authority, warrant, license, dispensation, assent, acquiescence, agreement, approval, approbation, endorsement, accreditation, ratification, validation, blessing, imprimatur; informal go-ahead, OK, green light. antonym prohibition.
verb
1 the rally was sanctioned by the government authorize, permit, allow, warrant, accredit, license, endorse, approve, accept, back, support; informal OK. See note at approve . antonym prohibit.
2 the penalties available to sanction crime punish, discipline someone for.
post #9 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by ct77 View Post

The word "sanction" has a different meaning depending on how it is used in a sentence.

I'm no English teacher, but the first time I read the headline, I read it as "Apple approves of Rogers for iPhone plans".

Here's the definition of "sanction" from the OS X Dictionary:

sanction
noun
1 trade sanctions penalty, punishment, deterrent; punitive action, discipline, restriction; embargo, ban, prohibition, boycott. antonym reward.
2 the scheme has the sanction of the court authorization, consent, leave, permission, authority, warrant, license, dispensation, assent, acquiescence, agreement, approval, approbation, endorsement, accreditation, ratification, validation, blessing, imprimatur; informal go-ahead, OK, green light. antonym prohibition.
verb
1 the rally was sanctioned by the government authorize, permit, allow, warrant, accredit, license, endorse, approve, accept, back, support; informal OK. See note at approve . antonym prohibit.
2 the penalties available to sanction crime punish, discipline someone for.

@ct - lol That word is part of the exclusive club of English words which have synonyms that are antonyms of each other.

Other prestigious members include original (new and unique... or same old standard), and dust (to apply a dust to crops...or remove it from the mantle)

Who invented this darn language anyway?
post #10 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by smithereensblog View Post

Who invented this darn language anyway?

I don't know but I admire anyone who has learned it as a second language!
post #11 of 130
Sanction has a few definitions that are variant but this definition is applicable.

"A penalty, specified or in the form of moral pressure, that acts to ensure compliance or conformity."


The language is quite clear
post #12 of 130
Looks like we are getting an English lesson here as well At least the rest of the world are getting their iPhones. I am an expat currently based in Malaysia and this country isn't even on Apple's 'Coming To Countries Everywhere' list. Looks like I shall have to get mine from back home.
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post #13 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by ct77 View Post

I'm no English teacher, but the first time I read the headline, I read it as "Apple approves of Rogers for iPhone plans".

Then you read it wrong. The way it was used in this particular headline should not have been ambiguous to anyone who correctly understands the word. There is no possible way it could mean "approval" in this context.

No offense intended (honestly); I blame English, not you.
post #14 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormchild View Post

No offense intended (honestly); I blame English, not you.

None taken. As I mentioned, I'm not an English teacher. Actually, I teach Mathematics.
post #15 of 130
More than likely, Apple found out about Rogers' price plans, realized they weren't going to sell that many iPhones because of the phone plans, and diverted the shipment to Sweden or whereever. There are sellers markets and Canada isn't one of them.
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post #16 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by ct77 View Post

None taken. As I mentioned, I'm not an English teacher. Actually, I teach Mathematics.

I could use a mathematics lesson or two Actually I always liked it but hated my teachers. As boring as you can imagine. ZERO personality. iPhone will debut here in Japan this week! Funny thing is, ZERO news or ads. ZERO.
post #17 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by success View Post

iPhone will debut here in Japan this week! Funny thing is, ZERO news or ads. ZERO.

I think the iPhone sells itself -- no advertising necessary, at least at this point.

Except in Canada, where Rogers completely messed things up.
post #18 of 130
Excuse my morning sarcasm. I'm an Australian.

All these issues that have been brewing up since less than two weeks ago simply shows how companies/resellers are taking advantage of the guaranteed success of the iPhone. When the first iPhone was launched and ultimately jailbreaked, the units were selling here (in Malaysia) for astronomical prices. Most of the resellers themselves were as dumb as a lamp post - possessing about 1% knowledge of Apple products. Prices soared as high as USD1,200.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormchild View Post

Then you read it wrong. The way it was used in this particular headline should not have been ambiguous to anyone who correctly understands the word. There is no possible way it could mean "approval" in this context.

No offense intended (honestly); I blame English, not you.
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post #19 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by min_t View Post

More than likely, Apple found out about Rogers' price plans, realized they weren't going to sell that many iPhones because of the phone plans, and diverted the shipment to Sweden or whereever. There are sellers markets and Canada isn't one of them.

that's what I'm thinking.

if they prove wrong, there's always the restock shipment. but why waste units on an area that might not sell them when you have folks already lining up in the US
post #20 of 130
Joy of Tech SLAMS Ted Rogers

Canucks deserve to be treated like iHumans

http://www.joyoftech.com/joyoftech/j...ives/1123.html
post #21 of 130
when an iphone isn't sold who hurts the most apple, rogers or consumers. apple is trying to make a platform tie ins are critical to apple ok so rogers loses a 3 year contract, but maybe they did it for nationalism, maybe rim made them a better deal to blunt iphone sales. geeee that sounds more like it, see who is on rim's board and roger's board, the iphone is hot, but not that hot in canada, for every non iphone sold that customer may be a 2year contract for rim.....hmmmm
maybe apple sees this as an afront anticompetitive and went to the canadian agency. rim is the target, rim got to roger's first.
it's a rim ploy against apple.....now that makes more sense to me.
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post #22 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOFEER View Post

when an iphone isn't sold who hurts the most apple, rogers or consumers. apple is trying to make a platform tie ins are critical to apple ok so rogers loses a 3 year contract, but maybe they did it for nationalism, maybe rim made them a better deal to blunt iphone sales. geeee that sounds more like it, see who is on rim's board and roger's board, the iphone is hot, but not that hot in canada, for every non iphone sold that customer may be a 2year contract for rim.....hmmmm
maybe apple sees this as an afront anticompetitive and went to the canadian agency. rim is the target, rim got to roger's first.
it's a rim ploy against apple.....now that makes more sense to me.

I think we can fairly assume that while Rogers may operate that way, neither Apple nor RIM are anywhere near that dirty a competitor, since both actually value their public image (Rogers' public image varies from very bad to something on par with the antichrist, depending on which Canadian you happen to ask -- they used to be primarily a monopolistic cable TV provider... enough said?)
post #23 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

While readers should take caution in accepting the rumor at face value, at least one other carrier has been forced to loosen its Internet access restrictions after facing similar criticism: TeliaSonera has been pushed into extending its Swedish iPhone plans with an unlimited data option after previously giving even its highest-end iPhone plan just 1GB of data per month.

I hope this happens to Vodafone in New Zealand. We're charged $49.95(NZ) for 1Gb traffic on a plan.

Also it pretty much looks certain that we won't get the iPhone on PrePay either or apparently visual voicemail but then that requires a reworking of the backend so I'll forgive that.

Vodafone NZ are awesome but their dataplan is a complete and utter joke.
post #24 of 130
As Canadian Alanis Morissette might say, "Isn't it ironic?"

Rogers went from rogering their Canadian customers to getting rogered by Apple!

Thanks to all my British mates who tipped me off to some of their great slang!
post #25 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by spiritkid View Post

Joy of Tech SLAMS Ted Rogers

Canucks deserve to be treated like iHumans

iROTFL
post #26 of 130
Most of our current plans end at 1Gb and many of them will cost you about $129 or so + your phone repayment.

Telstra has a pay as you go data option for $2 per MB yes thats right $2000 per GB. My home internet plan includes 15GB so the equivalent in telstra mobile pay as you go would cost $30 000.

I suppose they are just trying to make up the cost of not having to lay all of those cables and not having to come to your home to connect the phone but you come to them :P

Apparently they must have switched their copper network for gold

or maybe they now build their exchanges from diamonds and unicorn horns

or maybe their call centers are now employing the entire Indian population. So they can now have 1.1 billion people saying yes to every question you ask regardless of whether they can or will do what your asking or not.

Who knows?? but what ever you do dont use the PAYG browser package to email them and find out or you might need to extend your home loan

I wonder if this is the most expensive in the world/universe, I’m really curious to know

Oh… PS That’s sent and received….. even worse

Most affordable or included data plans will have just enough to able for me to view at least 4 or 5 erectile disfunction emails

-------------------

Oh and get this.... OPTUS sells the iPhone on a network where in the majority of places you CANT access 3G!!!! but you have to read some very small print in their plans to find that out.

Looks to me with aussie telco's sucking so much all they are going to do is sell a lot more wifi routers so you wont have to access thru the mobile network.

Looking forward to an article on how to set up a wifi mesh network using your iphone
post #27 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by aestival View Post

What really must be bugging Apple is that they have now completely and utterly failed to transform the Canadian market in any way -- Canadian users looking for unlimited data plans will be buying Samsung and RIM/Blackberry devices, because not only has Rogers dropped the ball, they have managed to deftly drop-kick it into a giant cesspool of their own making.

It is amazing how Rogers have turned this huge opportunity into a massive own goal. They could have scored big against their competitors and instead they have pissed off their customers and potential customers no end. Somebody should get fired, indeed. Canadian customers are just beginning to vent their anger and I hope it continues and ripples through the industry. In Canada, no matter who you sign up with, you need to pay what's called a 'system access fee'. Sounds like a tax, no? A government imposed fee? It is not. Instead it is a fictional tax, or fee, that is just that, fictional. It is just a way of pretending that part of the fee they are charging is "beyond their control" So a 30 dollar package is actually a 37 dollar package as every subscriber must pay the made up "access fee". Underhanded or what? There is a big class action lawsuit happening and I hope all the companies get nailed for it. Bunch of crooks.
post #28 of 130
wow paxman - thats like a supermarket saying there is a $5 entry fee if you want to come in and spend money here. I can't believe they get away with it.
post #29 of 130
Why couldn't it just be due to iPhone 3G shortages? This story is just pure speculation. Anyway if the Canadians are whining about paying too much in carrier fees, they might as well pass up on buying an iPhone and get something else with lower carrier fees. Bless them if they think that complaining is going to do anything to reduce the rates. Maybe I should just stand in front of some gas stations and start screaming that gasoline costs too much so they'll take pity on me and reduce the price. Yeh, fat chance.
post #30 of 130
market pressure works for some products in this case you don't really need this iphone so chose something else, less iphone sales apple hurts then they put pressure on roger maybe not
time will tell imagine no one buys a rogers iphone for two weeks while other countries have 5 day waiting lines who does that reflect on rogers or apple. i'd wait with the protest list. i may wait a while any way . i want to look at the apps store first then see what AI forums say
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post #31 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

As much as I would like to believe this rumour (since it's what canadians have hoped for), it sounds pretty unlikely to me. This is just not the way business works AFAIK.

If Apple made a contract with Rogers to sell the iPhone and unlimited data was important to Apple, then they would have put it in the contract. If that was true, then Rogers would be in violation of contract, and the "punishment" would be a lot more than this. Lawyers would already be involved because Rogers would have essentially already broken the contract.

If Apple didn't make a contract with Rogers that forced them to offer unlimited data (the most likely case), then Apple's "punishment" of Rogers for following standard business procedures and executing a valid, legal contract, is not only childish, but likely to get Apple into hot water for failing to hold up *it's* end of the contract.

This whole thing sounds like a fantasy to me.

But your argument would only matter if Apple had agreed to ship a minimum number of phones. If the contract between Apple and Rogers had neither a requirement for an unlimited data plan or a required minimum shipment of iPhones, then this IS the way business works. Just look at the iTunes Store as an example. They have contracts with most of the studios and yet they still only have a limited selection of movie rentals. Think maybe the studios are dragging their feet making movies available as a way to "control' Apple's sales of movies??

Quote:
Originally Posted by funkylovebunny View Post

wow paxman - thats like a supermarket saying there is a $5 entry fee if you want to come in and spend money here. I can't believe they get away with it.

Do you think all of the "fees" listed on your local phone and mobile bills in the US are government mandated? Nope.
post #32 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post

Why couldn't it just be due to iPhone 3G shortages? This story is just pure speculation. Anyway if the Canadians are whining about paying too much in carrier fees, they might as well pass up on buying an iPhone and get something else with lower carrier fees. Bless them if they think that complaining is going to do anything to reduce the rates. Maybe I should just stand in front of some gas stations and start screaming that gasoline costs too much so they'll take pity on me and reduce the price. Yeh, fat chance.

What a pinhead response. Yes there is whining. It could also be called protest. And nothing works like withholding money. Also, Rogers, the carrier, is getting some terrible press in main stream media. At the moment some 48 000 Canadians have signed a petition against the ridiculous charges. www.ruinediphone.com I hope Canadians don't buy the iPhone. I know I wont much as I would love to own one. As I mentioned, there is also a large scale class action against the carriers in regards to the obligatory 'made up' tax.
Your juvenile cynicism, ignorant arrogance and hostile tone makes you seem immature. Why don't you head over to cnet and comment there. More your style, I think.
post #33 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by smithereensblog View Post

@ct - lol That word is part of the exclusive club of English words which have synonyms that are antonyms of each other.

Other prestigious members include original (new and unique... or same old standard), and dust (to apply a dust to crops...or remove it from the mantle)

Who invented this darn language anyway?

There are plenty of words like that. I'd say most of these stem from using different english roots that eventually converge into the same spelled word. The list below has many more than I though there were; I I can't contend for it's accuracy as I haven't had time to look it over. I didn't even know contronym/contranym was word. I'm curious when that was coined.
http://www.rinkworks.com/words/contronyms.shtml
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post #34 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by ct77 View Post

I think the iPhone sells itself -- no advertising necessary, at least at this point.

I wonder if it's because Apple Japan doesn't know what they are doing? Apple almost doesn't need to do advertising in the US anymore because of the coverage in the press and web sites, but Japan probably isn't like that, they need to push the word out, even if it means paying for advertising.

Of all the developed countries, the iPod's presence is among the weakest in Japan.

If you ask, forum members Bergermeister or Umijin will explain their in-country views on why Apple does so poorly in Japan.
post #35 of 130
I hope this is true.

Rogers has clusterfckd itself quite nicely.

It's one thing to fork out $400 dollars for a new piece of hardware - but another entirely to fork out 500 every quarter to be able to even use it!, and be locked in for 3 years!!!

From what I've seen, I think demand for Canadian iPhone is dying, so its not so much a sanction on Apple's part but a business case on demand (as in Apple's sending phones to where they will actually sell: ROGERS, FYI, this magical place is called UNLIMITED DATA at a valid price world....)

I went into a Rogers store yesterday for about 10 min on something unrelated to iPHone (aghast!), and two 'customers' approached the desk soley to tell the guy simply that they would't be getting an iPhone as the the rates were too hi...

I couldn't help but play dumb and ask the rep for clarification...he was basically apologetic showing me 400MB for $60 and dowright sheepish for 2GB @ $115, calling them "sub-par". I asked him what was I going to do with 13MB of data a day for $60, he replied that Rogers figured if people would spend hundreds on the phone, they'd spend upwards of a hundred on their plan. There's no way enough Canadians are going to spend $150+ after tax and call display on cell phone bills every month.


Rogers will be remembered as the one which flopped the iPhone. 'waytogobuddy' indeed.
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post #36 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by spiritkid View Post

Joy of Tech SLAMS Ted Rogers

Canucks deserve to be treated like iHumans

http://www.joyoftech.com/joyoftech/j...ives/1123.html

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post #37 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by funkylovebunny View Post

Telstra has a pay as you go data option for $2 per MB yes thats right $2000 per GB.

You think you have it bad? If you don't have a data plan with Rogers, it costs ¢5 per KB, that's $51.20 per MB, or $52 428.80 per GB. How they can get away with those prices is beyond me.
post #38 of 130
If you think the iPhone doesn't need advertising in Japan you are out of your iMind.

It will BOMB. 10 days till D-Day.
post #39 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by macFanDave View Post

As Canadian Alanis Morissette might say, "Isn't it ironic?"

Rogers went from rogering their Canadian customers to getting rogered by Apple!

Thanks to all my British mates who tipped me off to some of their great slang!

The written equivalent of fingernails on a blackboard.
post #40 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilco View Post

The written equivalent of fingernails on a blackboard.



To pick up on the Morisette reference... she did indeed use those words but she completely mis-used (mis-understood) the meaning of the word ironic. There are no ironies in her song, just a series of unfortunate incidents. Ironic, huh?
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