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Apple allegedly sanctioning Rogers for iPhone rates - Page 3

post #81 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drizzx View Post

Here is an analysis done on iPhone consumption that is based on real-world usage. 400MB just isn't going to cut it.

It is not real world. It is full of assumptions.

Again, if AT&T is offering unlimited data plan, it is because nobody could comes near to exceeding the cost. Or otherwise, why do they charge for receiving text messages.

Why would any carrier lie about how much data is being used. Read the fine print. AT&T can at anytime change the prices. AT&T has already stated that data usage is twice what they originally projected. Unfortunately we don't know what the figures are, but according to reliable sources, the way that data comes and goes on the iPhone is not the same as projected by a bunch of wannabe analyists.

So far, nobody has posted a breakdown of their $95 average iPhone bill. How did they get being so significantly higher than listed if their prices are so far cheaper than the Rogers plan?
post #82 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Naturally, everybody would like to see wireless prices lowered and in particular, get unlimited data plans. However,…

Rogers has said that the Canadian Data Plans are not out of line. Unlimited Data Plans are, and as such, Americans are paying for something they or the majority of customers are not using.

Now before some of you go ballistic, note the difference between the US and Canadian plans.
  • Text messages are only charged to the sender in Canada
  • Calls from a Rogers to another Rogers phone are free
  • AT&T Data Plans are unlimited
Now, on the last point I have to admit that I lean to Rogers on this one. Unless somebody can prove to me how we can come near the Monthly Data Usages.

For example
  • The $60 400MB Data Plan gets you up to 200,000 text emails, or 3100 web pages or 1360 photo attachments.
  • For $15 more, you get basically double the amounts.
For the life of me, I cannot see how I could, or have the time, to utilize even the lowest Monthly Data Usage.

The majority of their customers on data plans have complained on blogs, forums and to the media about being limited on how much they can use their smartphone to it's full potential due to Rogers capping data and high overage rates. This has become increasingly frustrating since Telus and Bell started to offer unlimited data plans for smartphones that are less costly than what Rogers wants consumers to swallow as being good value for their money. The response from Rogers has been that they believe the average user will only use 100 MB on the iPhone. Well sorry to disappoint them but I've used 200 MB on the current model which will increase significantly when I use the iPhone 3G (HSPA), MobileMe and the App Store. The latter of which does not let the user know how much the data size will be when downloading. Also MobileMe is a constant data sync service for push calendar, push email and push contacts which will significantly increase data usage, a service that Rogers hasn't taken into consideration when estimating average data usage for their customers who purchase this service from Apple. I've been limiting my usage due to concern for high overage rates. I have friends and family using the current iPhone (EDGE) that have gone over 400 MB. They've accomplished this all before using HSPA, the App Store or MobileMe.

As for the Rogers to Rogers calling that's not included in any of the iPhone 3G Voice & Data plans. It's only an option if you choose to get a separate voice plan that has Rogers to Rogers calling and add on a smartphone data plan. Though doing this will mean no free WIFI at pay per use Hotspots as well increased cost when you add on the $7.00 early evening calling, $7.00 call display, $10.00 2500 text messaging and $8.00 Visual Voicemail.

Reference unlimited data plans from competitors: http://www.telusmobility.com/bc/plan...mail_all.shtml and http://www.bell.ca/shopping/en_CA_BC/UNPDA_OP.details and http://www.bell.ca/shopping/en_CA_BC/BISEI_OP.details
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post #83 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Via your source (to a quoted link on their article): http://www.unstrung.com/document.asp...unstrung_gnews

Yeah, you can't IMAGINE how to use 400MB/month. Whatever.

No. But it sure beats paying $34 when you want to download a movie when you're nowhere near a hotspot. Even at 2G/3G speeds.

If it starts being a burden then new iPhone data plans will be more than $30 for unlimted next year.

Get your facts straight.

Jobs said right from the beginning, video can only be gotten via Wi-Fi.

So I gather that takes care of your argument
post #84 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Fido's site says about 7 times faster (peak) so ideally about 13 minutes.

I think your math is way off.

Isn't 3.6Mbps the base signaling speed, and not the actual payload transmission speed? To illustrate what I mean, that's why 54Mbps WiFi can't exceed 20Mbps practical capacity.

Even assuming you actually do get 3.6 Mbps, that is 2.4x the minimum bitrate of of an iTunes video. A 1.5 hour movie would be 38 minutes.
post #85 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I think your math is way off.

Isn't 3.6Mbps the base signaling speed, and not the actual payload transmission speed? To illustrate what I mean, that's why 54Mbps WiFi can't exceed 20Mbps practical capacity.

Even assuming you actually do get 3.6 Mbps, that is 2.4x the minimum bitrate of of an iTunes video. A 1.5 hour movie would be 38 minutes.

3.6mbps is what Fido mentions repeatedly on their site as the max peak speed, so it is obviously what they are promoting as the potential.

You are right about my math. I took the 1.5 hours of the movie instead of the 4.5 hours of download you mentioned, so you are correct, about 38 minutes, best case. Still, using Fido's promoted peak speed, this is much less than 4.5 hours. Being peak, you will never see these speeds, but it should still be fast enough to be usable and potentially within the capacity of a battery charge.

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post #86 of 130
I doubt there are seriously 42,000 would-be iPhone buyers signatures on that petition.

I suspect some of them are from other countries, some wouldn't have bought it anyway, some are multiple "signatures" from the same people, and some of those who sign it are going to buy it anyway.

I doubt the petition will have much effect. What will have an effect is if not very many people buy the iPhone when it's released, but I'm guessing Rogers will still sell lots in spite of all the noise.
post #87 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

It is not real world. It is full of assumptions.

It was full of assumptions of low data usage. I did a quick check on my work email. Since June 16 (3 weeks), I have 403 emails in my inbox with an average size of 115 KB. I don't get a ton of attachments and those I do get are not exceptionally large. I also checked my archived work emails from the last 3 years or so. The average email size was also about 100KB. Let's say I get about 500/month (very low assumption), then we are at 50000KB. Divide by 1024 and I am at 49 MB/month, just for work email. Add in personal email addresses and it climbs even higher. While my numbers are a little lower than those mentioned in the linked analysis, they show that his numbers are close to the mark.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Again, if AT&T is offering unlimited data plan, it is because nobody could comes near to exceeding the cost. Or otherwise, why do they charge for receiving text messages.

What does them charging for messages have to do with data usage? Text messaging is very low in terms of data. They charge for them because it is an easy cash grab.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Why would any carrier lie about how much data is being used. Read the fine print. AT&T can at anytime change the prices. AT&T has already stated that data usage is twice what they originally projected. Unfortunately we don't know what the figures are, but according to reliable sources, the way that data comes and goes on the iPhone is not the same as projected by a bunch of wannabe analyists.

Why would a carrier lie about how much data is used? Um, I don't know, maybe to make it look like they are providing fair value? Because it make it look like customers are getting more than they are? Just the fact that Rogers numbers are so obviously skewed shows they have an interest in presenting the numbers in their best interest. I notice that Rogers main iPhone packages page no longer includes their interpretation of the number of webpages or emails, which it used to. I wonder why that is.

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post #88 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigKingFun View Post

I doubt there are seriously 42,000 would-be iPhone buyers signatures on that petition.

I suspect some of them are from other countries, some wouldn't have bought it anyway, some are multiple "signatures" from the same people, and some of those who sign it are going to buy it anyway.

I doubt the petition will have much effect. What will have an effect is if not very many people buy the iPhone when it's released, but I'm guessing Rogers will still sell lots in spite of all the noise.

You are probably, unfortunately, completely correct. As far as impact on sales by people who disagree with the plans, I am hoping there will be a sizable impact. I know 5 or 6 other people that were planning to buy an iPhone. Three of them are waiting for at least a few weeks, to see if prices will come down. A couple other were not planning to rush out anyway. The only person I know who is still planning to get one immediately is my brother, but that is because his work is paying for it and any plan he gets. If it was his money, he agrees it would be foolish to get one right away.

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post #89 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Talking of which, can those of us with Saxon blood apply for a gaming license and reparations yet?

We should. I come from a long line of people who have been persecuted by wealthy land owners. I'm going to get my DNA mapped this year to determine my Haplogroup. 23 and Me seems like the most throughout choice, but the $1000 price tag is still too high for my liking. Although the mDNA will also give a tree for my mother and siblings, so that is something to consider.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

3.6mbps is what Fido mentions repeatedly on their site as the max peak speed, so it is obviously what they are promoting as the potential.

I couldn't get the iPhone using 802.11g to DL at a rate faster than about 2.4Mbps connected to a 15Mbps/1.5Mbps internet connection, so I don't see the speed getting better until the processor speed is increased and perhaps more RAM is added. For comparison I have gotten slightly better than 15Mbps using that same WiFi connection and internet connection.
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post #90 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by clyde_turkey View Post

The thing is you can't download movies/songs from the iTunes WiFi Music store while on the cell network, so there's never going to be a charge for that. Directly from the Apple site.

Buy music over the air from the iTunes Wi-Fi Music Store on iPhone. Find a Wi-Fi hot spot and tap the iTunes button. Then take your pick from more than 6 million songs.

My bad, but as Tulkas pointed out, YouTube is available.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Get your facts straight.

Jobs said right from the beginning, video can only be gotten via Wi-Fi.

So I gather that takes care of your argument

No it doesn't. He was listening to streamed audio via one of many radio stations that provides a feed on HIS CELL PHONE. As you've convienently clipped out.

"I used 100 MBytes in an hour and a half listening to Internet radio on my phone the other day."

Of course, that's likely a windows phone with WMP aboard. However, iRadio is available for jailbroken phones.

Video over 3G is possible via YouTube and there's video downloads and quicktime streams elsewhere. Movies via iTunes not at the moment but seems like a no brainer to add in the near future. NBC streamed 30 Rock and The Office which were low quality but worked on the iPhone.

In any case, its silly to say that 400MB is more than enough given that some cities have really bad wifi coverage.
post #91 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

It was full of assumptions of low data usage. I did a quick check on my work email. Since June 16 (3 weeks), I have 403 emails in my inbox with an average size of 115 KB. I don't get a ton of attachments and those I do get are not exceptionally large. I also checked my archived work emails from the last 3 years or so. The average email size was also about 100KB. Let's say I get about 500/month (very low assumption), then we are at 50000KB. Divide by 1024 and I am at 49 MB/month, just for work email. Add in personal email addresses and it climbs even higher. While my numbers are a little lower than those mentioned in the linked analysis, they show that his numbers are close to the mark.

This was posted at http://www.bravehound.com/rogers-fid...hone-criminal/

***Question to Current iPhone users in the US*** how much data are YOU using per month? Theres a setting on your phone that shows the usagetoss it in the comments, let us in the Great White North know what were in for.

So far the numbers are low. Perhaps we can get a better response from here.
post #92 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigKingFun View Post

I doubt there are seriously 42,000 would-be iPhone buyers signatures on that petition.

I suspect some of them are from other countries, some wouldn't have bought it anyway, some are multiple "signatures" from the same people, and some of those who sign it are going to buy it anyway.

I doubt the petition will have much effect. What will have an effect is if not very many people buy the iPhone when it's released, but I'm guessing Rogers will still sell lots in spite of all the noise.

Read the facts before you run your mouth off spouting off assumptions and opinons, here's a excerpt from http://www.ruinediphone.com/blog/ since you were to lazy to reasearch the facts before you spouted off your opinion.


RuinediPhone.com Acquisition FAQs Answered
July 6th, 2008

QUESTIONS FROM OILCHANGE.COM TO YOU

We have received many comments from supporters saying we have to do more than just send the petition to make a difference.

#1 Some have suggested there be a peaceful and organized rally / protest when we deliver the petition to Rogers.

#2 There have since been other offers from Rogers competition that are more competitive and some have suggested people cancel their Rogers contracts and that we start a separate petition that keeps count of how many people have canceled their Rogers contracts.

What are your thoughts?

There are a number of questions and concerns from supporters that Oilchange.com would like to address. Below you will find frequently asked questions and answers.

Q: Are you affiliated with any telecommunications company?

A: No, we are full service web design and Internet marketing company that has no affiliation with any telecom company. We do however advertise Oilchange.com on 680 News, a Rogers owned radio station and we do pay for some other Rogers services and none of those services involve cell phone plans.

Q: Why are you taking over a grassroots movement?

A: When we found out about this petition and heard about the data plans Rogers was offering for the upcoming launch we were as disappointed as everyone else. Our executives used to be on Rogers wireless plans and they were too expensive so we then switched to Telus and they too ended up being too expensive. We now use Verizon cell phones and save a significant amount of money and can travel all over Canada and the US and not pay extra for roaming fees or long distance charges.

When we saw the site go down under control of the original site owner we felt strongly enough about this issue to acquire it and make sure the petition continues to grow without interruptions especially when momentum was building. As a corporate entity we have more resources to manage this website and take it to higher levels. The Paypal donation button has been removed because Oilchange.com is taking on the cost of this website. We have added video content to Youtube, accelerated the petition sign ups and are making adjustments to the website on a daily basis.

We are behind this petition 100%.

Q: What did you do with all the Paypal donations?

A: Oilchange.com has not received any payment from Paypal Donations. We are taking on all the costs associated with this website. The previous owner has told us to notify everybody that he used the funds to market the site and did not use any funds for himself.

Q: Whats your motivation?

A: The Rogers pricing of their iPhone 3G data plans is just one example of many in this country where Canadians are being overcharged. There are countless examples in every sector. We have created a platformCanadians.com to expose all of these price differences to make a difference here and obtain more competitive pricing on goods and services, more choice and ultimately put more money back in Canadian pockets.

Q: There have been some duplicate entries in the petition, what are you going to do about this?

A: We scrub the site once a day for duplicates and other spam posts.
post #93 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince View Post

Read the facts before you run your mouth off spouting off assumptions and opinons, here's a excerpt from http://www.ruinediphone.com/blog/ since you were to lazy to reasearch the facts before you spouted off your opinion.


RuinediPhone.com Acquisition FAQs Answered
July 6th, 2008

QUESTIONS FROM OILCHANGE.COM TO YOU

We have received many comments from supporters saying we have to do more than just send the petition to make a difference.

#1 Some have suggested there be a peaceful and organized rally / protest when we deliver the petition to Rogers.

#2 There have since been other offers from Rogers competition that are more competitive and some have suggested people cancel their Rogers contracts and that we start a separate petition that keeps count of how many people have canceled their Rogers contracts.

What are your thoughts?

There are a number of questions and concerns from supporters that Oilchange.com would like to address. Below you will find frequently asked questions and answers.

Q: Are you affiliated with any telecommunications company?

A: No, we are full service web design and Internet marketing company that has no affiliation with any telecom company. We do however advertise Oilchange.com on 680 News, a Rogers owned radio station and we do pay for some other Rogers services and none of those services involve cell phone plans.

Q: Why are you taking over a grassroots movement?

A: When we found out about this petition and heard about the data plans Rogers was offering for the upcoming launch we were as disappointed as everyone else. Our executives used to be on Rogers wireless plans and they were too expensive so we then switched to Telus and they too ended up being too expensive. We now use Verizon cell phones and save a significant amount of money and can travel all over Canada and the US and not pay extra for roaming fees or long distance charges.

When we saw the site go down under control of the original site owner we felt strongly enough about this issue to acquire it and make sure the petition continues to grow without interruptions especially when momentum was building. As a corporate entity we have more resources to manage this website and take it to higher levels. The Paypal donation button has been removed because Oilchange.com is taking on the cost of this website. We have added video content to Youtube, accelerated the petition sign ups and are making adjustments to the website on a daily basis.

We are behind this petition 100%.

Q: What did you do with all the Paypal donations?

A: Oilchange.com has not received any payment from Paypal Donations. We are taking on all the costs associated with this website. The previous owner has told us to notify everybody that he used the funds to market the site and did not use any funds for himself.

Q: What’s your motivation?

A: The Rogers pricing of their iPhone 3G data plans is just one example of many in this country where Canadians are being overcharged. There are countless examples in every sector. We have created a platformCanadians.com to expose all of these price differences to make a difference here and obtain more competitive pricing on goods and services, more choice and ultimately put more money back in Canadian pockets.

Q: There have been some duplicate entries in the petition, what are you going to do about this?

A: We scrub the site once a day for duplicates and other spam posts.

Woah, let's not get so hostile so quickly. The poster was simply speculating that signers might be international and that some people were posting twice. There isn't anything in that FAQ you posted that says this is not the case, other than duplicates. And if all they are scrubbing for is duplicate email addresses, they will not be getting all of the potential duplicates cleared.

Edit: in fact there is no doubt that some of the people signing are not Canadian. I have read comments there from people that clearly said they were not canadian and were in fact signing to support Canadians. I also saw SuperMan and Snoopy as signers.

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...sometimes it's both
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...sometimes it's both
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post #94 of 130
For some perspective:

http://arstechnica.com/journals/appl...r-21-countries

Note that Rogers actually has the longest contract length.
post #95 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmas View Post

For some perspective:

http://arstechnica.com/journals/appl...r-21-countries

Note that Rogers actually has the longest contract length.

And by far, not the most expensive by a long shot, particularly when you factor in the price of the iPhone itself.

And again, to all current iPhone users, how much data are you really using. It is not hard to find out. Here are the step-by-step instructions to Monitoring Usage, which is built right in the iPhone.

http://safari.ibmpressbooks.com/9780...7/ch11lev1sec3
post #96 of 130
As a fido customer for the past 3 years I just want to be able to buy an iphone and keep my current contract, simple. Even if the phone costs more that way.
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post #97 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecking View Post

As a fido customer for the past 3 years I just want to be able to buy an iphone and keep my current contract, simple. Even if the phone costs more that way.

That would be the cheapest solution, but watch out, Rogers, like AT&T may require this new contract type for iPhone users. The way around it is to wait for SW unlock so you can use your current grandfathered Fido plan with the iPhone. I'm still debating waiting to see if that will allow me 3G access or if AT&T can disallow that knowing you should have an EDGE iPhone.
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post #98 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

And by far, not the most expensive by a long shot, particularly when you factor in the price of the iPhone itself.

And again, to all current iPhone users, how much data are you really using. It is not hard to find out. Here are the step-by-step instructions to Monitoring Usage, which is built right in the iPhone.

http://safari.ibmpressbooks.com/9780...7/ch11lev1sec3

This point will be valid as soon as anyone using a 3G iPhone posts their usage. Until then it is meaningless. I keep seeing this argument everywhere but until the new phone with the new features and capabilities is in the marketplace it's pointless.

But let me ask you this. If Bell and Telus are now both able to provide unlimited data for their upcoming releases why should it be so difficult for people to ask for the same from Rogers? I know what I would have used the iPhone for and 400MB doesn't even come close to meeting my needs. And I certainly don't want to have to sit there and monitor my usage minute by minute to make sure I don't have to shell out for incredibly high overage fees.
post #99 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by MomentsofSanity View Post

This point will be valid as soon as anyone using a 3G iPhone posts their usage. Until then it is meaningless. I keep seeing this argument everywhere but until the new phone with the new features and capabilities is in the marketplace it's pointless.

But let me ask you this. If Bell and Telus are now both able to provide unlimited data for their upcoming releases why should it be so difficult for people to ask for the same from Rogers? I know what I would have used the iPhone for and 400MB doesn't even come close to meeting my needs. And I certainly don't want to have to sit there and monitor my usage minute by minute to make sure I don't have to shell out for incredibly high overage fees.

I have consistently used a couple GBs per month with my EDGE iPhone. I rarely watched any YouTube videos and didn't have access to WiFi after the first couple months of its use. I assume that my usage will increase by at least 50%, by assuming that I will be able to load pages faster than before. But as you stated, we will need to wait for the new iPhone to really see. Of course, the first month should be discarded as there will likely be many App Store apps downloaded and the many users who waited until the 3G version will still probably be using it more than normal as it's still a novelty.

As for Rogers, they have no financial reason to compete with the other carriers as the iPhone can only work on their network. All the other non-MVNO carriers in Canada are CDMA/CDMA200.
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post #100 of 130
Petitioning does work. Norwegia now has an unlimited data plan, albeit an expensive one, after receiving 3,500 complaints from customers. This unlimited/unlimited plan does not include any phone minutes or SMS but if you are like me this would be option.
https://netcom.no/iphone.html
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post #101 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

And by far, not the most expensive by a long shot, particularly when you factor in the price of the iPhone itself.

Kinda of like saying the guy that raped you in prison wasn't the biggest, so it is OK.

While not the most expensive, it isn't near the cheapest either. And I would like to know how many of those carriers clawed back basic functionality like call display, or made evenings and weekends start at 9PM. Certainly none of the listed plans require a 3 year contract.

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post #102 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Kinda of like saying the guy that raped you in prison wasn't the biggest, so it is OK.

The glaring difference is that you have a choice with the carriers.
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post #103 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The glaring difference is that you have a choice with the carriers.

And that the other involves actual rape.

Point still holds though, just because it isn't the worst, does not make it good.

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post #104 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by MomentsofSanity View Post

This point will be valid as soon as anyone using a 3G iPhone posts their usage. Until then it is meaningless. I keep seeing this argument everywhere but until the new phone with the new features and capabilities is in the marketplace it's pointless.

But let me ask you this. If Bell and Telus are now both able to provide unlimited data for their upcoming releases why should it be so difficult for people to ask for the same from Rogers? I know what I would have used the iPhone for and 400MB doesn't even come close to meeting my needs. And I certainly don't want to have to sit there and monitor my usage minute by minute to make sure I don't have to shell out for incredibly high overage fees.

Why wait for 3? Those few that have posted their usage with there current iPhone are using significantly less than 400MB a month.

http://forums.ilounge.com/showthread.php?t=201887
http://forums.macnn.com/103/ipod-iph...ne-data-usage/
http://forums.macworld.com/thread/102763?tstart=0
http://www.fluther.com/disc/16717/wh...ne-data-usage/
http://johnbiehler.com/2008/06/27/a-...ata-plan-math/
http://www.iphone24-7.com/the-iphone...le-data-usage/
http://wirelessfederation.com/news/i...s-at-t-mobile/

The following has been posted as a quote from a Rogers spokesperson. If true, is would appear that 'unlimited data plan is superfluous. It should be noted that the 100MB per month had been reported by AT&T. Although some here will say that this information isn't worth a grain of salt, the links above are from those that have posted actual usage, which supports AT&T's declaration.

"Something else to note: if you look at previous media reports, the average usage for iPhone was less than 100MB per month, so Rogers has quadrupled the data bucket for the entry level plan at $60 for 400 MB and is offering our customers 20 times the data on our most comprehensive plan."

As to your question, Bell and Telus don't have 3g or the iPhone. And the relatively little that all the other cell phones are being used to surf the net, I would offer the same deal because nobody will have a phone to take advantage of it.

After all the hullbaloo about limited or costly data plans, it is interesting that there wouldn't be an onslaught of supportive information to verify high Data Usage. The lack of response suggests that those that have an iPhone are embarrassed by their findings, or most likely, very few have an iPhone or they don't know what they are talking about.
post #105 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Kinda of like saying the guy that raped you in prison wasn't the biggest, so it is OK.

While not the most expensive, it isn't near the cheapest either. And I would like to know how many of those carriers clawed back basic functionality like call display, or made evenings and weekends start at 9PM. Certainly none of the listed plans require a 3 year contract.

Look at what it cost for the iPhone itself. Most are above $250 and as high as $377.

As far as I could find out 'evenings and weekend' plans, even from AT&T, all start at 9 PM; but you can get from 6 or 7 PM for an additional charge, (even from AT&T).

And AT&T didn't claw back on text messaging, it removed it entirely. But you can get it back for a price.
post #106 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Look at what it cost for the iPhone itself. Most are above $250 and as high as $377.

$377 for the phone and $24/month for the plan, which gives 500 minutes and 500MB. Sounds like a better deal to me.

No one is claiming Rogers is the worst. But they are not the best and compared to ATT or their Canadian competition, they are unreasonably high and limited.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

As far as I could find out 'evenings and weekend' plans, even from AT&T, all start at 9 PM; but you can get from 6 or 7 PM for an additional charge, (even from AT&T).

And AT&T didn't claw back on text messaging, it removed it entirely. But you can get it back for a price.

And lots of people did not like this, either.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

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post #107 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Why wait for 3? Those few that have posted their usage with there current iPhone are using significantly less than 400MB a month.

http://forums.ilounge.com/showthread.php?t=201887
http://forums.macnn.com/103/ipod-iph...ne-data-usage/
http://forums.macworld.com/thread/102763?tstart=0
http://www.fluther.com/disc/16717/wh...ne-data-usage/
http://johnbiehler.com/2008/06/27/a-...ata-plan-math/
http://www.iphone24-7.com/the-iphone...le-data-usage/
http://wirelessfederation.com/news/i...s-at-t-mobile/

The following has been posted as a quote from a Rogers spokesperson. If true, is would appear that 'unlimited data plan is superfluous. It should be noted that the 100MB per month had been reported by AT&T. Although some here will say that this information isn't worth a grain of salt, the links above are from those that have posted actual usage, which supports AT&T's declaration.

"Something else to note: if you look at previous media reports, the average usage for iPhone was less than 100MB per month, so Rogers has quadrupled the data bucket for the entry level plan at $60 for 400 MB and is offering our customers 20 times the data on our most comprehensive plan."

As to your question, Bell and Telus don't have 3g or the iPhone. And the relatively little that all the other cell phones are being used to surf the net, I would offer the same deal because nobody will have a phone to take advantage of it.

After all the hullbaloo about limited or costly data plans, it is interesting that there wouldn't be an onslaught of supportive information to verify high Data Usage. The lack of response suggests that those that have an iPhone are embarrassed by their findings, or most likely, very few have an iPhone or they don't know what they are talking about.

And given that no one has the iPhone 3G, no ones knows what they are talking about for usages on that either. With a faster connection, AppStore availability, Exchange and MobileMe support, it is only reasonable to expect higher data usage, whether on 3G or Wifi. So, it is very disingenuous, at the least, to bring original iPhone usage into the argument. Any intelligent person expects data usage to go up when using iPhone 3G compared to the original. Faster page loads alone will encourage more browsing. Just as people use more data when they move their home ISP from dialup to cable or DSL. Faster pipes result in more usage.

You comment about Bell and Telus is telling. You are right, they don't have 3G or iPhone, so Rogers is free to act without direct competition here. But in the overall cell market, they are competitors and they both have better data plans than Rogers. With the HTCTouch and Instinct, while they aren't iPhones, for many, they might be enough.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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post #108 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Why wait for 3? Those few that have posted their usage with there current iPhone are using significantly less than 400MB a month.

http://forums.ilounge.com/showthread.php?t=201887
http://forums.macnn.com/103/ipod-iph...ne-data-usage/
http://forums.macworld.com/thread/102763?tstart=0
http://www.fluther.com/disc/16717/wh...ne-data-usage/
http://johnbiehler.com/2008/06/27/a-...ata-plan-math/
http://www.iphone24-7.com/the-iphone...le-data-usage/
http://wirelessfederation.com/news/i...s-at-t-mobile/

The following has been posted as a quote from a Rogers spokesperson. If true, is would appear that 'unlimited data plan is superfluous. It should be noted that the 100MB per month had been reported by AT&T. Although some here will say that this information isn't worth a grain of salt, the links above are from those that have posted actual usage, which supports AT&T's declaration.

"Something else to note: if you look at previous media reports, the average usage for iPhone was less than 100MB per month, so Rogers has quadrupled the data bucket for the entry level plan at $60 for 400 MB and is offering our customers 20 times the data on our most comprehensive plan."

As to your question, Bell and Telus don't have 3g or the iPhone. And the relatively little that all the other cell phones are being used to surf the net, I would offer the same deal because nobody will have a phone to take advantage of it.

After all the hullbaloo about limited or costly data plans, it is interesting that there wouldn't be an onslaught of supportive information to verify high Data Usage. The lack of response suggests that those that have an iPhone are embarrassed by their findings, or most likely, very few have an iPhone or they don't know what they are talking about.

You are again missing the simple point that 3G offers significantly FASTER experience meaning that people are now more able to take advantage of those functions which were more limiting with the old iPhone. If you think that is not a factor in all of this you are missing (or conveniently ignoring) the principle point that people have been trying to make. I have seen numerous posts where low data iPhone users have all said they expect their usage to increase exponentially with the new 3G given it's enhanced capabilities.

I WANT to be able to use YouTube without concern and I WANT to be able to stream online radio at any time I choose but I would be afraid to touch these applications on top of my normal usage for fear of going over my cap. I'm sure you are aware of the bandwidth usage of these types of applications. That is where people seem to be the most annoyed. The fact that they would have to watch every byte they use.

I use a lot of graphically intensive websites. I moderate on some forums where people are more apt to be posting large detailed photos for our shared hobby. One page load can be countless MB in size and I want to be able to do what I want to do without fear of having to take out a second mortgage to do it.
post #109 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Petitioning does work. Norwegia now has an unlimited data plan, albeit an expensive one, after receiving 3,500 complaints from customers. This unlimited/unlimited plan does not include any phone minutes or SMS but if you are like me this would be option.
https://netcom.no/iphone.html

And a small point to add to that - The rates may be too high in Norway (Scandinavia) but the average wage there is $70 000.- God know what it is for the target audience.
post #110 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Point still holds though, just because it isn't the worst, does not make it good.

Prison rape involves forceful action against your will. There is no one forcing you on Friday to stand in line, bend over, and grab your ankles. You don't have to get an iPhone.
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post #111 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by MomentsofSanity View Post

You are again missing the simple point that 3G offers significantly FASTER experience meaning that people are now more able to take advantage of those functions which were more limiting with the old iPhone. If you think that is not a factor in all of this you are missing (or conveniently ignoring) the principle point that people have been trying to make. I have seen numerous posts where low data iPhone users have all said they expect their usage to increase exponentially with the new 3G given it's enhanced capabilities.

I WANT to be able to use YouTube without concern and I WANT to be able to stream online radio at any time I choose but I would be afraid to touch these applications on top of my normal usage for fear of going over my cap. I'm sure you are aware of the bandwidth usage of these types of applications. That is where people seem to be the most annoyed. The fact that they would have to watch every byte they use.

I use a lot of graphically intensive websites. I moderate on some forums where people are more apt to be posting large detailed photos for our shared hobby. One page load can be countless MB in size and I want to be able to do what I want to do without fear of having to take out a second mortgage to do it.

I just talk to a Rogers representative and their average data user is using between 80 and 100 MB per month. They expect an increase, how much nobody really can tell at this point but the 400MB seems like a good place to start.

As was pointed out, Wi-Fi is expected to play more of an integral and important role in the use of the iPhone, particularly in large file downloads. iTunes, as Jobs announced. only allows its purchases to available via Wi-Fi to keep delivery costs down.

The idea that we should not be paying more for something is faster and better but will cause you to use it more is ludicrous. The suggestion that one should have unlimited use of anything or else is ludicrous. Using a cell phone to share large detailed photos for nothing is ludicrous. The fact that you are annoyed that you have to watch what you consume is ludicrous. The fact that you spend your life on YouTube and want to be able to listen to radio at ones beckoning call for nothing is ludicrous.

The fact that if AT&T offers you something for free and other don't, tells me something. We know that downloading data has costs. Not seeing it charged for it on my bill doesn't mean I am getting it for free.

The fact that the wireless industry has spent billions creating their networks, (I believe AT&T spent $16 billion just for 3g), somebody has to pay the piper. This is not to say that they or any other cell company aren't charging too much, we just don't have the right or evidence to say we are being ripped off. If any body is being ripped off, it is the 16 yr old Indonesian kid that is getting a dollar for making that $200 pair on Nikes you're wearing, or the Louisiana cotton mill worker who is out of a job because you don't want to pay more than $10 for your t-shirts.
post #112 of 130
remember SJ wants 3g to dowload music, and indegrate with mobleme, and other services like iTV for future access, with a piss poor data price, people are not going to spend more to download music or anything else from apple
this doesn't work well for apple growth and SJ 'big picture"
i'll bet within a few weeks if the protests happen the negative press on rogers will change their rates. but they have to do it in a face saving way, so how does a corp offer more without looking like it screwed their customers, so i be rogers is talking to a PR company because the news won't be a about rogers it will be about a robber baron, that doesn't look nice with all the publicity that iphone is getting. apple is watching this.....I bet real close

"The iPhone is going to be the platform that makes the mobile Internet real and usable -- essentially a mobile computer -- which will drive the adoption of new mobile applications. Once you've touched the screen to follow a link in the exceptionally readable browser, you know that this is the standard by which all future mobile phones will be measured," Borsato reports.

SJ wants the iphone to grow we will see.
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post #113 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Prison rape involves forceful action against your will. There is no one forcing you on Friday to stand in line, bend over, and grab your ankles. You don't have to get an iPhone.

Yeah, like I said, one is is literal rape and the other is not. But in either case, not being the worst is not the same as being good.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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post #114 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Yeah, like I said, one is is literal rape and the other is not. But in either case, not being the worst is not the same as being good.

It's still not figurative since you are seeking it out. The best you could call it in your metaphor is rough sex.
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post #115 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

It is amazing how Rogers have turned this huge opportunity into a massive own goal. They could have scored big against their competitors and instead they have pissed off their customers and potential customers no end. Somebody should get fired, indeed. Canadian customers are just beginning to vent their anger and I hope it continues and ripples through the industry. In Canada, no matter who you sign up with, you need to pay what's called a 'system access fee'. Sounds like a tax, no? A government imposed fee? It is not. Instead it is a fictional tax, or fee, that is just that, fictional. It is just a way of pretending that part of the fee they are charging is "beyond their control" So a 30 dollar package is actually a 37 dollar package as every subscriber must pay the made up "access fee". Underhanded or what? There is a big class action lawsuit happening and I hope all the companies get nailed for it. Bunch of crooks.


++
Stop reading my mind! I came here to write what you did almost word for word. The 911 fee is part of the same fiction. It should be considered a form of false advertising and prosecuted. Glad to know about the class action. It won't happen but I hope they get hammered. Or at least, the doors open to any and all foreign competitors. They'd be crying for mercy almost over night.
post #116 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigKingFun View Post

I doubt there are seriously 42,000 would-be iPhone buyers signatures on that petition.

I suspect some of them are from other countries, some wouldn't have bought it anyway, some are multiple "signatures" from the same people, and some of those who sign it are going to buy it anyway.

I doubt the petition will have much effect. What will have an effect is if not very many people buy the iPhone when it's released, but I'm guessing Rogers will still sell lots in spite of all the noise.

I agree that the 40-something thousand signatures on the petition would probably not have much effect on Rogers, but it is having a huge effect on mainstream public perception of the iPhone in Canada, and I think this perception will in turn harm sales. This petition has been covered in several major national media stories I've seen today alone. The overall message of these stories is that people "in the know" are saying that the iPhone plans are a ripoff. For the average cellphone customer who may have been curious about the iPhone or even looking forward to it, this petition and the stories it has sparked are poisoning the atmosphere for the launch and making potential buyers extremely distrustful. So instead of frenzied enthusiasm for finally being able to buy an iPhone in Canada, a very large number of people are now suspicious if not downright disillusioned, and I think this will result in much lower sales than Rogers was anticipating. They're big enough and greedy enough to probably stick out this negative publicity if they think it will fade away over time (and knowing Canadian consumers, it probably will). Hate to be cynical but we've been getting systematically screwed by cellphone, land line, Internet, and cable companies for years with nary a peep of protest; this is the first sign of public uprising I've ever heard here and as hopeful as it makes me, we'll probably get distracted by something else soon enough and so the screwing will continue...
post #117 of 130
Just want to clarify for everyone that Rogers iPhone 3G Voice & Data plans are not eligible for 3 months unlimited data bonus, only 3 months unlimited local calling. Keep this in mind when using data as it could cost you a lot of money in data overage charges.
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post #118 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

It's still not figurative since you are seeking it out. The best you could call it in your metaphor is rough sex.

I can only assume that you are intentionally ignoring the intent behind the statement, and are rather dwelling on the easier target of somebody's inappropriate choice of metaphor.

My personal feeling is that the iPhone in Canada is going to flop initially because the majority of potential customers are simply not going to be willing to commit to that kind of price plan on a 3-year contract.

I expect that Rogers is going to have to either be content with lower than anticipated sales, or else eventually revise its rates to bring it more in line with what consumers are willing to pay.
post #119 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

After all the hullbaloo about limited or costly data plans, it is interesting that there wouldn't be an onslaught of supportive information to verify high Data Usage. The lack of response suggests that those that have an iPhone are embarrassed by their findings, or most likely, very few have an iPhone or they don't know what they are talking about.

Actually, it's 'hullabaloo'.
post #120 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imagine Engine View Post

The majority of their customers on data plans have complained on blogs, forums and to the media about being limited on how much they can use their smartphone to it's full potential due to Rogers capping data and high overage rates. This has become increasingly frustrating since Telus and Bell started to offer unlimited data plans for smartphones that are less costly than what Rogers wants consumers to swallow as being good value for their money. The response from Rogers has been that they believe the average user will only use 100 MB on the iPhone. Well sorry to disappoint them but I've used 200 MB on the current model which will increase significantly when I use the iPhone 3G (HSPA), MobileMe and the App Store. The latter of which does not let the user know how much the data size will be when downloading. Also MobileMe is a constant data sync service for push calendar, push email and push contacts which will significantly increase data usage, a service that Rogers hasn't taken into consideration when estimating average data usage for their customers who purchase this service from Apple. I've been limiting my usage due to concern for high overage rates. I have friends and family using the current iPhone (EDGE) that have gone over 400 MB. They've accomplished this all before using HSPA, the App Store or MobileMe.

As for the Rogers to Rogers calling that's not included in any of the iPhone 3G Voice & Data plans. It's only an option if you choose to get a separate voice plan that has Rogers to Rogers calling and add on a smartphone data plan. Though doing this will mean no free WIFI at pay per use Hotspots as well increased cost when you add on the $7.00 early evening calling, $7.00 call display, $10.00 2500 text messaging and $8.00 Visual Voicemail.

Reference unlimited data plans from competitors: http://www.telusmobility.com/bc/plan...mail_all.shtml and http://www.bell.ca/shopping/en_CA_BC/UNPDA_OP.details and http://www.bell.ca/shopping/en_CA_BC/BISEI_OP.details

Telus: http://www.telusmobility.com/bc/plan...mail_all.shtml

Offers available until August 5, 2008. Rates are subject to change without notice.
1 PDA smartphones (with TELUS mobile Email only) and BlackBerry® smartphones (with BlackBerry® Internet Service only).
2 Unlimited instant messaging available with Windows Live Messenger on PDA smartphones only and BlackBerry® Messenger on BlackBerry® smartphones only.
3 Web browsing and application usage not available on BlackBerry® smartphones and is charged at pay-per-use rate of $8/MB on PDA smartphones.
* Data used while roaming in the U.S. is charged at $8/MB. Any usage incurred through a laptop/computer will be charged at $8/MB.
\t
Bell: http://www.bell.ca/support/PrsCSrvWl...Agreement.page
19. Use of Service.

You are responsible to safeguard your Device, and for the use of your Device and the Services by you and any other persons, except as provided under Section 18 above. You shall not use or allow others to use the Service or your Device if such use:

is for, or results in, any illegal, abusive, annoying or offensive activities, including making available offensive content, the commission or encouragement of a criminal offence, stalking, harassment, spamming, disrupting or interfering with the Internet, any network, computers or other devices, transmission of a virus or other harmful component, defamation, intellectual property infringement, or interference with other clients service;

consumes excessive network capacity in Bells reasonable opinion, or causes our network, or our ability to provide services to others, to be adversely affected;

is for multi-media streaming, continuous data transmission or broadcasts, automatic data feeds, automated machine to machine connections or peer-to-peer (P2P) file sharing, voice over Internet protocol or any other application which uses excessive network capacity that is not made available to you by Bell;

is to provide a substitute or back-up for private lines or dedicated data connections such as DSL;

is to operate an email, web, server farm, news, chat or other service.

You shall not threaten, abuse or harass any Bell employee or representative. You shall not commit, attempt to commit, or allow others to commit or attempt to commit, any fraud against Bell including fraudulently obtaining Services or Devices, or transforming outbound communications into incoming communications or otherwise fraudulently avoiding applicable charges, and shall not otherwise abuse flat rate or unlimited use plans, or allow others to do so. You shall not resell, transfer, distribute, share or exploit for commercial purposes any Service or engage in or allow any alteration, copying, reproduction of or tampering with electronic serial numbers or other identification, signalling or transmission functions or components of your Device. In addition, you must follow all other service regulations issued or adopted by us. Bell may immediately suspend or terminate all or part of your Services and this Agreement without notice if Bell has reasonable grounds to believe there is a breach of any of these Use of Service: provisions.

Sidenote, I didn't know Bell offered GSM? http://www.bell.ca/support/PrsCSrvWl...Agreement.page , IPhone anyone?

20. Additional Terms of Use for GSM Subscribers.

The following terms and conditions apply to each GSM Device/SIM card (GSM Device) you connect to our network and for the roaming services we provide to you for your GSM Device via roaming service provider(s).

(i) You agree that it is a physical given that for mobile telecommunication service the possibility of creating or maintaining a connection and the quality of the connection are not equal or adequate in every location at any time.

(ii) You agree that the roaming services may be adversely affected and may (temporarily) be unavailable as a result of physical factors (such as buildings, tunnels, mountains, etc.), atmospheric circumstances, or adjustments to or maintenance of the network of another provider of telecommunication services, failure in the interconnection, jamming transmitters, or other causes.

(iii) You shall prudently protect the GSM Device against loss, abuse, theft or damage.

(iv) If the GSM Device is no longer in your possession due to loss, theft or damage, or if you suspect abuse of the GSM Device, you must contact Bell Mobility to block the GSM Device.

(v) Upon termination of the agreement or if the roaming services are no longer purchased, you shall destroy the GSM SIM Card.

(vi) You warrant normal use of the GSM Device for the purpose of purchasing roaming services, as intended by such providers according to reasonable standards. You shall be liable for any damage arising as a result of unlawful use of the roaming services and the GSM Device.

(vii)You shall refrain, and prevent others, from using the GSM Device or roaming services for any purpose (pattern) other than that intended by the relevant telecommunications operator, in any way whatsoever, including annoyance, spamming, or any other form of harassment, creating, or having third parties create, connections with buy lines on a large scale or committing criminal offences.
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