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Spat with Rogers leaves Canadian Apple stores without iPhones - Page 5

post #161 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Proof, as much as it can be presented for speculative data usage for an unavailable device, has been provided to you through stats that show the average web page is far larger than what Rogers stats. It has been presented to you through individuals doing informal analysis of their own data usage. You reject these and accept only what comes from the carriers. Your source is suspect.

Now that explains everything. By the way, I gave a list of links that came from independent users, not from carriers or their employees. Of course they could have lied as some may be doing here.

Sorry for trying to wake you from dreamland. Please don't respond.
post #162 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Now that explains everything. By the way, I gave a list of links that came from independent users, not from carriers or their employees. Of course they could have lied as some may be doing here.

Sorry for trying to wake you from dreamland. Please don't respond.

Nah, I will respond.

Who is living in a dreamland by asking for proof of usage on an device no one can use yet? But then, as you have proven yourself, it really doesn't matter. Some people will use numbers based on real world number, such as average web page size and their own current data needs. You instead use Rogers and other carriers 'information'. You will only accept info from either the carriers or from iPhone users, whose data is not relevant. Like I said before...Brilliant.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

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post #163 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmason View Post

Nope, looks like the new data plan is official, both from Fido and Rogers:

http://www.electronista.com/articles...6gb.iphone.3g/

Doesn't include visual voice-mail, but I don't need it. I don't need SMS either, since I'll have IM!

The Rogers rep did say to keep an eye on their site for announcements. So far, I don't see it.

I had planned on adding the $30 Data Plan to my existing family/night/weekend plan which starts at 6PM.
post #164 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

The Rogers rep did say to keep an eye on their site for announcements. So far, I don't see it.

I had planned on adding the $30 Data Plan to my existing family/night/weekend plan which starts at 6PM.

It's on the Rogers site here:

http://your.rogers.com/investorrelat...s_wireless.asp

It's not on the plan page yet, but first link on the above page confirms the 6 gig plan.
post #165 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

The Rogers rep did say to keep an eye on their site for announcements. So far, I don't see it.

I had planned on adding the $30 Data Plan to my existing family/night/weekend plan which starts at 6PM.

This has to beg the question, why would you care? You have been very busy posting, telling us all that the announced iPhone packages were reasonable and that it was so very unlikely that anyone would need more than a few hundred MB per month? Why be such a hypocrite and even look at the promo packages, if they are beyond your needs? Just go with the iPhone plans you were so vigorously defending. Or were you just full of shit?

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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post #166 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

And you know this how? Other people in the UK have said they were told the Apple Store would be selling it. A poster on page 3 of this thread call a store in the UK and they did not say they are not carrying it, only that they were not sure. So, you have made a claim, can you back it up?

Because the UK Apple Store says so:
http://www.apple.com/uk/iphone/buy/

Notice that the Apple Retail Store is nowhere on this page.

This is consistent *with every other market* Apple has retail stores in, except the U.S.
post #167 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by parasubvert View Post

Because the UK Apple Store says so:
http://www.apple.com/uk/iphone/buy/

Notice that the Apple Retail Store is nowhere on this page.

This is consistent *with every other market* Apple has retail stores in, except the U.S.

No, it does not say it will not be available at the Apple Stores, just that it will be available at O2 and CarPhoneWarehouse. That is not the same as saying it will not be available. As Abster2Core said, he called a UK store and all they could say is that they did not know.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

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post #168 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by winterspan View Post

You are absolutely right here. It will depend on how many different websites someone actually visits. I know with my RSS reader I'm all over the map, while others may read all of the nytimes.com articles. But yeah, in either case the data transfer will be reduced. And to think I'm a web application developer! I'm not usually this incompetent

No problem, easy to forget. I've done a bunch of web app performance tuning, so it's the first thing I think of.

Quote:
Have to disagree with you here. We are talking about "Smartphones" running Windows Mobile, Blackberry's OS, PalmOS, or Symbian --- not regular javaME phones. All modern smartphones come standard with full HTML browsers that access normal HTML content, not WAP/WML pages.

Fair enough, I've stayed away from smart phones to this point because the ones I saw sucked. Glad they are getting better.
post #169 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmason View Post

I read somewhere (sorry can't remember) that mobile Safari doesn't cache because of memory and space limitations.

I would be amazed if they had no browser cache. Even a small disk cache of 50MB will have a major impact on browse speed. The iPhone makers will be keenly aware of the benefits of caching, I just can't see them going without. They may have limited or no memory cache as RAM may be more of a bottleneck with the iPhone (as is often the case for mobile devices) but with at least 8GB of disk, there is plenty available for caching.
post #170 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

The iPhone is able to access the World Wide Web via a modified version of the Safari web browser, which as the article below describes the difference in how it caches.
http://yuiblog.com/blog/2008/02/06/iphone-cacheability/

Very helpful, thanks for that link. So there is a memory cache, but apparently no disk cache. Perhaps they did that to extend battery life. Hopefully Apple has improved safari caching on the 3G.
post #171 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

This has to beg the question, why would you care? You have been very busy posting, telling us all that the announced iPhone packages were reasonable and that it was so very unlikely that anyone would need more than a few hundred MB per month? Why be such a hypocrite and even look at the promo packages, if they are beyond your needs? Just go with the iPhone plans you were so vigorously defending. Or were you just full of shit?

Could you direct me to my comments that stated as you so kindly did? Until then, perhaps it is you that needs to have their ass wiped.
post #172 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Could you direct me to my comments that stated as you so kindly did? Until then, perhaps it is you that needs to have their ass wiped.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

I have just finished talking to a Rogers rep and in every respect it was quite encouraging.

For me personally, I have the option of upgrading to an iPhone and adding a separate Data Plan (http://www.rogers.com/web/content/wi..._service_plans) to my existing voice service plan. As such, I can, for $30, get the 300MB data pack and still keep our existing Pooled Family Eve/Weekend Plan.

My Evening/Weekend which we have had for some time starts at 6PM. Thus, we are reluctant to move to another plan.

Now, I realize that a number of you may not believe me, or in particular, what the Rogers Rep told me about the Data Usage, but here goes.

Rogers has been testing the iPhone from day one and their findings have consistently shown that the number of emails, web pages and photo attachments, i.e., 200,000, 3,100 and 1,360 respectively for 400MB, are in fact inline. In addition, the average data usage as tabled per AT&T user has been verified. As the Rep said, you will be amazed at how much you will be get on the iPhone with just a 400MB data plan.

What was encouraging was the admission that Rogers was well aware of all the ruckus surrounding their plans, that much of the issues were due to misinformed voices, and that Rogers was working hard to make it a success. .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

So far, there is no evidence sending e-mails or web surfing or sharing images via the iPhone requires the need for unlimited data plans as Rogers and most international carriers are betting on.

Perhaps Steve's insistence that the iPhone can only acquire large file or iTunes purchase to be Wi-Fi'd, and have the device automatically switch to the cheapest available delivery system (Wi-FI…Edge…3G) has set a new paradigm in wireless communication. I would certainly hope so.

As far as I can tell now, if Rogers announced their iPhone plans today, with the exception of a couple of carriers, the prices are not out of line. High maybe. But not out of line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Naturally, everybody would like to see wireless prices lowered and in particular, get unlimited data plans. However,…

Rogers has said that the Canadian Data Plans are not out of line. Unlimited Data Plans are, and as such, Americans are paying for something they or the majority of customers are not using.

Now before some of you go ballistic, note the difference between the US and Canadian plans.
Text messages are only charged to the sender in Canada
Calls from a Rogers to another Rogers phone are free
AT&T Data Plans are unlimited
Now, on the last point I have to admit that I lean to Rogers on this one. Unless somebody can prove to me how we can come near the Monthly Data Usages.

For example
The $60 400MB Data Plan gets you up to 200,000 text emails, or 3100 web pages or 1360 photo attachments.
For $15 more, you get basically double the amounts.
For the life of me, I cannot see how I could, or have the time, to utilize even the lowest Monthly Data Usage.

So, again, why be such a hypocrite. Go with the iPhone plans or even the $30/300MB you were so fond of. If you don't like what you wrote now, maybe you should not wrote it then. Backtracking just makes your arguments look that much weaker. You were quick to swallow whatever Rogers told you to explain their high prices. Willing to argue their points for them, in these various threads. Have the balls to stand up to your convictions.

Edit:Also, if you are asking to wipe my ass, feel free. Perhaps you could use some of those Rogers talking point sheets or Wireless industry propaganda rags you love so much.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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post #173 of 178
Abster2core: yeah, figured as much....

so you never did let us know, which of the original iPhones packages are you signing up for. Or are you doing the $30/300MB? Because you said that is all the data you would ever need. Right? And of course we have your comments from O2 and Rogers and ATT stating that average use never got above, what, 100MB with the original iPhone? And they are reliable sources, right?

Come on you asked me to show you your quotes 7 hours ago. Your reading comprehension should have allowed you to digest the small sampling of your info I dug up. You ask for the info, but I guess you didn't like what it showed.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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post #174 of 178
Rogers have made such a big mistake, with $$$ in their eyes, you have now incurred the wrath of over 60,000 customers or would-have-been customers. The Canadian carriers are all greedy, Rogers with their mistake with the iPhone launch, and now Bell and Telus wanting to charge 15 cents per incoming text message! Their actions of these carriers retards the telecommunication advancement in Canada. I am so disgusted with the lot of them that even if the iPhone in Canada goes down to a reasonable rate, I will not get one here. Instead, I will go get an unlocked iPhone in Asia, and pop in a SIM card and use it instead. So I don't get the continuous data, it's a price I am willing to take to not be imprisoned with long sentences with these loser service providers!
post #175 of 178
have only just found this, but thought I would offer my experience, basically I have a corporate plan with Rogers, 250 mins a month, free evenings/weekends caller display and visual voicemail plus 2500 texts, all for 35 bucks, so far, so normal. I wanted an iphone, but not to download data, I want an ipod/phone more than a browser, so I called Rogers and asked to do an upgrade, and despite trying to warn me off it, I got an iphone, with no data plan whatsoever...I will still be able to use Wi-Fi hot spots like Starbucks for nothing which will suite me just fine.The data plans are not obligatory, but Rogers are implying they are, all that remains is for me to sell my previous phone to recoup some of the outlay on the iphone, anyone want to buy a Nokia 8800 ?
post #176 of 178
Hi there !!
The story here is that Canada will be the only country in the world that does not have people lined up outside of the Apple store. That in itself is news. For every Apple store lineup story that is out there, there will be a mention, be it on CNN, BBC or others that the only country in the world that is not is Canada. T And they will mention the high data rates as the cause. Looks like Rogers is going to be on Bloomberg and CNN business this week, alot. They are probably fielding calls right now. This is a PR nightmare for Rogers, They won't see it as such, being Rogers, they're arrogant pricks, negative billing anyone, but they are going to feel the heat for a while.
I don't think it will change them one bit. Until the government steps in. It's a Canadian thing. There will be a commission set up.
post #177 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by reyajaswal View Post

Hi there !!
The story here is that Canada will be the only country in the world that does not have people lined up outside of the Apple store. That in itself is news. For every Apple store lineup story that is out there, there will be a mention, be it on CNN, BBC or others that the only country in the world that is not is Canada. T And they will mention the high data rates as the cause. Looks like Rogers is going to be on Bloomberg and CNN business this week, alot. They are probably fielding calls right now. This is a PR nightmare for Rogers, They won't see it as such, being Rogers, they're arrogant pricks, negative billing anyone, but they are going to feel the heat for a while.
I don't think it will change them one bit. Until the government steps in. It's a Canadian thing. There will be a commission set up.

I don't think Rogers will care that Apple didn't sell them at their stores. Although there were some here that said that because Apple did not mention it on their website, they never had plans to sell it at their own stores, this was obviously wrong. They did sell it in other countries, where they also did not mention it on their website.

While not selling it here may have been a reaction to Rogers policies, it isn't one that was likely very effective. Rogers still managed to sell out. This was mainly because they improved upon their pathetic initial iPhone plans (I mean, who would actually consider those?). If not stocking them at the Apple store helped pressure Rogers, great, but I think the rumored redirection of stock away from Rogers was likely more effective. Rogers knew they would sell out and if replenishments were slow, they would lose a lot of potential customers, especially because Bell and Telus announced their HTCTouch and Instinct devices and plans at the exact time the rumors of stock redirection was happening. Rogers was in a position where they might lose a lot of people to three year contract with Bell and Telus if they were told they would have to wait weeks or months for the iPhone to come back in stock.

So long as Apple now keeps them in stock and as long as they keep the $30/6GB option around, they will continue to make their sales and Apple selling it their store or not does not impact them in any significant way.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply
post #178 of 178
so was told by Rogers that phone would be delivered in 3-5 days, rang back on the 4th day to enquire for a tracking number, only to be told that my order is 'unfulfilled' (how apt...) and may now take 10 days ?? While I realize there are many more troublesome things in the world, why do they quote 3-5 days when they don't have a clue about stock levels ?? They have started charging me for the visual voicemail package, despite not having a device to use it on, go Rogers !!
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