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Spat with Rogers leaves Canadian Apple stores without iPhones - Page 2

post #41 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by KindredMac View Post

It would be like me charging someone to get onto my WiFi network at home. Once I covered all my expenses of the hardware and service that I have to pay, it is all profit and I don't have to lift a finger to do anything.... ANYTHING!

What happens when you leave town and the internet goes down? Do you send a tech out to fix it at your house?

Running a network is full of costs, "real" as you see them, and labor as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KindredMac View Post

Typical greed.

When you get your paycheck, do you give everything over your costs of living back to your company as a gift? Why do you need all that extra over and above what it costs you to provide the service you provide at the office?
post #42 of 178
I almost certain that Apple never intended to sell the iPhone at its stores in the first place. If you look at the canadian iphone page under "where to buy" it only says at Rogers or Fido stores. And it has since day one.
post #43 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbonner View Post

How does the unlock help when there is only a single carrier? You still have to purchase services in your local area, locked or unlocked.

In this case, there is only a single player in Canada.

If we purchase an unlocked iPhone, then we don't have to sign a 3 year agreement with Rogers/Fido. So there is somewhat of a benefit to buying an unlocked phone.
post #44 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sybersport

Question for everyone:

Is it possible that the Apple Store isn't selling the phones b/c they couldn't come up with a process to sign new customers into a Rogers phone contract?

It seems logical that, since the sign-up process is complicated, the Apple stores in Canada may have not been able to figure out how to make the sign-up process a seamless experience.

Also, maybe this was part of the contract agreement between Rogers and Apple (at least for the first little while?) - if the Apple store sells the phone, Rogers does not get the revenue from the handset sale. I realize that the Apple store will want to sell the handsets, but my guess is that this was possibly part of the launch strategy.

Thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by diazhill View Post

Agreed. The Apple.ca site has never indicated that iPhones would be available for sale at Apple stores in Canada. When you click on 'Where to Buy', Apple.ca has always referred you to either the Rogers or Fido's websites.

Exactly. Further, Tod Maffin from CBC indicates at his blog (http://todmaffin.com/iphonerumours) that he spoke personally with the Apple PR rep in Canada two weeks ago, who stated clearly that Apple Retail Stores would not be selling the iPhone.

This seems to be the case in most other non-U.S. countries also - at least those ones where the iPhone v1 was never available.

As noted above, I'm assuming that it's the same issue... Getting their computer systems linked up to handle the processing and activation issues. Remember that Apple and AT&T worked this stuff out last year for the sake of the iTunes-based sign-up, long before the first-gen iPhone was even released, so it should be a no-brained for Apple Store employees to walk through a process that is likely identical to what end-users went through with the original iPhone when they got it home. iTunes and AT&T are already tied together.
post #45 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianmac47 View Post

If Apple really cared, they simply would have sold all the iPhones as unlocked devices everywhere, at the same time. The decision to create exclusivity contracts with particular carriers got them into the mess, and now they have to deal with it.

That would make little difference in Canada - Rogers is the only company in Canada with a network compatible with the iPhone. New players are expected in Canada in 2009 however.
post #46 of 178
Apple may seem like the a**hole here, but after my experience as both a customer and employee at Carphone Warehouse, the telecom companies that are now going to be the major and largest resellers of Apple products (mostly the iPhone 3G), are very different from Apple.

1. Some do not hold the same culture, attitude.
2. Very few understand the Mac
3. Many of these telcos see the iPhone as just a way to make more and more money and more and more commission.
post #47 of 178
It's also possible that Apple simply believes their inventory can be put to better use in areas of high demand. The demand in Canada probably won't be so high with these high priced plans.
post #48 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sybersport View Post

If we purchase an unlocked iPhone, then we don't have to sign a 3 year agreement with Rogers/Fido.

Yes you would. Rogers is the only carrier supporting the iPhone. Selling unlocked phones only benefits if you can take the phone to another carrier.
post #49 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charko View Post

'Rogers' and 'Fido' sound like dogs' names to me.

Rogers not so much. Fido very much so. (that's the point.. woof!)



http://www.fido.ca
post #50 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by the cool gut View Post

Yes you would. Rogers is the only carrier supporting the iPhone. Selling unlocked phones only benefits if you can take the phone to another carrier.

I think the point they are trying to make is that if the phone were unlocked I could simply drop my existing SIM in on my current plan and I'm all set. Add on a $30/30 data plan if I don't have one already.

If next year when the market (presumably) opens up there's much better rates and plans with a new carrier off I go, no ECF.
post #51 of 178
If you are interested in particularly the Retail approach Telcos are doing compared to what we are used to with Apple and the training Apple Premium and Authorized Resellers go through, you can have a look at this, regarding why I believe BestBuy/ Carphone Warehouse may not be Apple UK/ Europe's preferred way of distributing the iPhone 3G.

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?t=88619
post #52 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post

If this were just the original report of low initial supplies to Rogers stores, then I might agree with you. But to not be selling them at all in their own Apple Stores? That, I think, is a pretty clear message. Store employees will be explaining to disappointed customers all day long (all weekend long) that they have no iPhones to sell them.

I tend to agree. Even if people didn't want to buy one the iPhone units on display are certainly a draw for increased foot traffic, which may result in the sale of an iPod or Mac. I wonder if Rogers will bend on this?
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post #53 of 178
The story here is that Canada will be the only country in the world that does not have people lined up outside of the Apple store. That in itself is news. For every Apple store lineup story that is out there, there will be a mention, be it on CNN, BBC or others that the only country in the world that is not is Canada. T And they will mention the high data rates as the cause. Looks like Rogers is going to be on Bloomberg and CNN business this week, alot. They are probably fielding calls right now. This is a PR nightmare for Rogers, They won't see it as such, being Rogers, they're arrogant pricks, negative billing anyone, but they are going to feel the heat for a while.
I don't think it will change them one bit. Until the government steps in. It's a Canadian thing. There will be a commission set up.
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post #54 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sybersport View Post

If we purchase an unlocked iPhone, then we don't have to sign a 3 year agreement with Rogers/Fido. So there is somewhat of a benefit to buying an unlocked phone.

Unlocked is not the same as without contract. If you pay the full retail price for the iPhone (8GB for $599 and 16GB for $699 in the US) then it's still locked to AT&T, but there is no contract required. Unlocked means you can use it among any carrier.

I had an unlocked iPhone on AT&T but I was still tied to their contract. I unlocked it for international use, but was still required to fullfil my contract.

As for buying an iPhone 3G for the full retail price to avoid a contract and then unlocking it yourself, you are still tied to Rogers in Canada as there is no other major carrier that uses GSM. I don't think the GSM-based MVNOs will be any help for the data portion, but I'm not sure.

• Unlocked — Can be used with any carrier that uses the same cellular standard
• Contract free —*No obligation to maintain service.

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post #55 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by KindredMac View Post

Your last sentence is where my "reasoning" is coming from. I, as a consumer who works in a physical commodity industry, cannot see the justness of the prices being placed on a digital "invisible" commodity.

Did you intend to illustrate so effectively why your reasoning is false?

You work in a physical commodity industry, so the concept of something like a phone network is clearly difficult to wrap your head around.
post #56 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by caliminius View Post

I have to agree. This to me seems like more of Apple's tactics of making itself look good at the expense of its partners. Apple fights the music labels to keep iTunes Store prices the same because it might hurt iTunes sales and then ultimately iPod sales, but Apple plays it off as them standing up against the greedy music execs (and for whatever reason the press laps up Apple's interpretation of events).

If Apple gave a crap about the rates, wouldn't they have put that in the contract with Rogers in the first place (as someone commented about yesterday's story about Apple sanctioning Rogers)? Instead, as you said, Doxxic, Apple realizes that iPhone sales in Canada could easily fall below their initial expectations and thus diverts those units to areas where they are expected to sell with ease. Does it get reported as Apple making a smart business decision? No, it's reported as Apple taking a stand against the greedy cell phone carriers.

Once again the Jobs Reality Distortion Field, hard at work.
Apple unlike Rogers are very good at making the spin work for them,

Robbers comes out and says, "Sure we could give you unlimited, but it'll cost you", now people are already ticked at the price of the plans, whats Rogers answer to that? It would cost you even more...

Give me a break. No wonder everyone hates them. Bell maybe the equally evil twin when it comes to Cell Service, but they were smart enough to say.. OK he's a deal for you.. unlimited for 10 bucks...(which incidentally used to be 7)

Who comes out smelling like a Rose now?
post #57 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xoote View Post

i think they are just being greedy

Well put!
post #58 of 178
I just travelled across the US, there a good number of GSM providers, I think in my trip the SW I ran into 3 or 4 providers, AT&T and T-Mobile being just 2 of them
post #59 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOFEER

what are the other carriers charging for say blackberry, instinct, etc data and voice plans, how much more is roger's compared to the rest of canada's carriers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yash Keough View Post

Bell and Telus have $10 and $15 unlimited smartphone plans I believe (don't know which exactly). Either way, they have unlimited in a very cheap plan (just over $40 with all included) when Rogers doesn't even offer unlimited in its high end plans.

Bell has had $7 unlimited data with the HTC Touch (with any voice plan), and announced $10 unlimited (any voice) for the Instinct. Data plans for their smartphone offerings with phyical qwerty keyboards are much more expensive (higher than the Rogers iPhone).

Telus is a bit more pricey ($15 unlimited email, $30 unlimited data), but those prices apply to ALL their phones, and they too have announced the Instinct for sometime this August.

Telus will also be carrying the new HTC Diamond for that price.

Of course, both are CDMA, so the phones aren't much use outside North America, but that's WAY cheaper than the iPhone.

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post #60 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sybersport View Post

If we purchase an unlocked iPhone, then we don't have to sign a 3 year agreement with Rogers/Fido. So there is somewhat of a benefit to buying an unlocked phone.

Not sure I am understanding the above. The issue at hand is that it is expensive to have a service plan in Canada with the iPhone, and apple appears to have said that this is not OK. How does an unlocked phone change that, would you be able to use the phone w/o a plan? Maybe with your existing plan?
post #61 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by sculley View Post

As someone that was been anxiously awaiting the iPhones arrival in Canada during the past 1.5 years (why I was anxious I don't know, it's a phone!) I am now looking at alternatives to the iphone like a cell phone and an iPod Touch. I'm just not into spending $100 total each month and NOT getting unlimited data. I can live with 150 weekday minutes, but the data cap is a killer. I don't want to have to think about whether I'm over the limit or not. I don't want to count MB's! I was all signed up to buy one the day of release, but not now.

Just curious... what are AT&T's roaming rates in Canada like? It would be funny if I could buy a US iPhone and give my money to AT&T while using the phone and living in Canada for the same price as Rogers is gouging me for. That would be a sweet kick of sand in Rogers face!

They have a 5GB International Data Roaming plan
post #62 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by KindredMac View Post

Typical greed.

The thing that kills me about all of the cell phone data plans and the broadband prices out there is that they are pretty much making pure profit off of all of these things. It's not like they have to "manufacture and distribute" an actual physical commodity. They just have to make sure that the network is open and up and running.

It would be like me charging someone to get onto my WiFi network at home. Once I covered all my expenses of the hardware and service that I have to pay, it is all profit and I don't have to lift a finger to do anything.... ANYTHING!

I agree with the greed part, but the rest is off base. AT&T just invested a lot of money in to their 3G network. They also have to pay thousands of maintenance and customer service people to maintain the network and deal with customer issues. Your wifi is connected to cable or dsl service through a company dealing with the same issues...you're just the middle-man.

Not defending AT&T or any other carrier, just couldn't let the lack of logic slide. I'm very annoyed by the Apple/AT&T relationship and the lack of services for a fairly high premium that we apparently have to deal with here in the U.S. (land of the free?). But, it's not like any of the other networks are getting high speed networks up and running. There's a reason Apple chose AT&T, they had a roadmap that would be support the iPhone. Now I'm just babbling...back to my spaghetti.
post #63 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I tend to agree. Even if people didn't want to buy one the iPhone units on display are certainly a draw for increased foot traffic, which may result in the sale of an iPod or Mac. I wonder if Rogers will bend on this?

PS: How the heck did I miss this thread yesterday.

You must realise one thing about Apple, particularly Apple Retail, is that they will "turn down/away" business if needed. That is, they have very specific targets, and if they are confident they can reach this without the iPhone *at all*, Apple Canada will do this. Honestly, they will not have any trouble doing this.
post #64 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by noxiousbob View Post

They have a 5GB International Data Roaming plan

The data roaming may be free if you have that plan add-on instead of domestic data (it's $60 instead of $30 I believe) but the voice roaming charges are outrageous (like .59 USD per minute or some ungodly number).
post #65 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelnyc View Post

Not defending AT&T or any other carrier, just couldn't let the lack of logic slide. I'm very annoyed by the Apple/AT&T relationship and the lack of services for a fairly high premium that we apparently have to deal with here in the U.S. (land of the free?). But, it's not like any of the other networks are getting high speed networks up and running. There's a reason Apple chose AT&T, they had a roadmap that would be support the iPhone. Now I'm just babbling...back to my spaghetti.

Verizon and Sprint's data networks have been running EV-DO rev. A for a couple years now, so it's not like AT&T has the only 3G network in the US. Apple also tried to deal with Verizon first, and Verizon turned them down, so Apple went to AT&T. It just so happened that AT&T's network is the same one standardized throughout the rest of the world, while the CDMA iPhone that Verizon would have required would be North America only. Unless they went with the Quad-Band route, like Verizon's Blackberries, but I believe that those can only connect to the voice networks overseas, not the data.
post #66 of 178
According to this CBC article, Apple is indeed selling the iPhone 3G in their own stores in every other country, even Italy and Australia that only have one store:

http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2...ch-iphone.html

So, it definitely does seem like they are treating Canada differently, probably because of Rogers.

Also, the Apple web page with "where to buy" was just there, I assume, because they aren't selling it on the *online* Apple Store. I'm sure they always planned to sell it in their physical stores. (It's so obvious, they wouldn't have even mentioned it on their web page.)
post #67 of 178
Gee, memories of WorldCom and their rip-off metering system. Unlimited is the ONLY way to satisfy customers. If the problem is a fear of customers paying for unused minutes, can we say 'rollover' boys and girls? I would much rather lose unused minutes every month than pay extortionist fees to Vito and Guido Rogers...
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post #68 of 178
Even if Canada is the only country not selling the iPhone in Apple Stores, the fact is that this is not a new development. As I posted above, Tod Maffin reported being told this directly by Apple's official Canadian PR representative almost two weeks ago, before Rogers announced their data rates.

Even (although we have to assume Apple had some idea of what those rates were going to be, it was certainly before any public reaction to those rates had been assessed. Further, Canada is not the only country with high iPhone data rates.... It's just that we keep incessantly comparing ourselves to the U.S. so they seem ridiculously high by comparison. The UK's rates are somewhere in between ours and AT&T's, and the rates in countries like New Zealand, Mexico and Portugal are definitely not any better.

I can't see the data rates being an issue for Apple, and I strongly doubt any veracity to this rumour itself. If Apple changed their minds on selling the iPhone in Apple Retail Stores, they did it over two weeks ago. More likely they simply decided they weren't going to do it in the first place because they couldn't work things out with Rogers to handle in-store activation. I could see it being something as inane as Windows software being required to handle the actual contract sign-up procedures, and of course the idea of running something Windows-based in an Apple store would probably be antithetical to Apple's ideology.
post #69 of 178
Okay.

Can anyone actually VERIFY that this so-called conference call happened, and those things were really said, and that there it was ever stated anywhere that Apple Stores in Canada would be selling the iPhone?

As far as I know, it's been known since the beginning that Apple will not have physical iPhones for sale in their stores in Canada. In fact, view this page ( http://todmaffin.com/iphonerumours ) which says: "Will I be able to buy the iPhone at Apple Stores?
No. They will be sold at Rogers/Fido stores only." That article was posted June 27th.

Also, the actual process of selling the phone involves unbricking it ( see here http://iphoneincanada.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=1425 ), and setting up the phone with the cell network.

What does this mean? If Apple DID sell the iPhone 3G in stores, they would have to have a bunch of people from both Rogers and Fido in-store, to handle all of the new accounts (and account upgrades). Does this seem even remotely plausible? There is no way that Apple is going to have another company in their store. Can you imagine the conflict there? And, obviously they would not just sell the phone, and let people walk off with it without signing up the plan/contract - because the $199/$299 price is highly subsidized.

Can anyone provide a single link indicating that it was even once stated that you would be able to buy an iPhone in an Apple Store in Canada on July 11th? Probably not.

As such, the very premise of this news post is incorrect, and it's pure misinformation. Please back up your statements with verifiable links/sources. I'm feeling a bit frustrated that this is all being hyped up as some "Apple vs. Rogers spat" when there's no concrete evidence as such.
post #70 of 178
I've had the original unlocked iPhone on Rogers network with the Data Max plan now for about six months and you get 25Mb for $60/month and then gouged for any overage. Last month I was another 30Mb over and I got dinged about $130 for the overage. Add on another $60/month for voice, the taxes, stupid fees, etc. and the bill mounts. While I HATE Rogers, I left Bell as they were worse, and I REALLY love my iPhone. Looking at the current iPhone plans, they are actually a better deal than I have now, so I am tempted to just take one of the plans on my current phone, which has no commitment. I have also seen that they have a data plan that adjusts up to 6GB under the business section, so I am waiting out on how this whole thing will unfold. Part of the advantage of the new phone will be the GPS service and geo-enabled applications along with the faster network speed (allegedly). Mail has been ok on the current Edge network and surfing has been average. WiFi has been excellent! I hate Rogers, but what other options are there to use the iPhone in Canada?
post #71 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmason View Post

I'm sure they always planned to sell it in their physical stores. (It's so obvious, they wouldn't have even mentioned it on their web page.)

Then why would they mention it on the US page, which they do? I also would like to see a link to any confirmation by Apple or their reps that there will be iPhones in any Apple stores outside the US on launch day.
post #72 of 178
All these phone companies are doing is drawing more attention to the "locked phones" situation. It's the governments job to not allow companies to stifle competition and innovation. By offering a product that people want under these circumstances, more and more attention is being drawn to the ridiculousness of the anti-competitive nature of wireless companies. In the long run, we will all be glad that at&t and Rogers got greedy, because it will serve as the final straw.
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post #73 of 178
I called the Apple Store Yorkdale this afternoon and they couldn't tell me if they were going to sell the phones or not on Friday. I called a Rogers Store (Tricell, I think) and they said that they definitely would be and the one at the St. Clair Centre was taking orders for them over a week ago.
post #74 of 178
I can see by reading post on this topic who are the business owners and who are the consumers.
Exclusive deals that Apple has made is how they were able to get there product to market. With the tech they were bringing online they needed the infrastructure there to handle their product.

1. You never want to release a product into a market segment that is dependent on other vendors that do not have the infrastructure.
2. The performance of your product dependent on other vendors that do not have the proper infrastructure will reflect your product in a negative light.

The iPhone was a big gamble and a huge step for Apple they have to protect them selves by not releasing an unlocked iPhone.

"If Apple really cared..." I find that statement troubling.
It is not what a consumer feels is fair it is what the market will bear.
The amount of hidden cost with starting, building and maintaining a business is insanely exorbitant. You always try and capitalize on what you can sell your products for because at some point you will have to reduce the price due to new competition.

"exclusivity contracts with particular carriers got them into the mess, and now they have to deal with it" ... in your opinion. I re-fer to my earlier statement bringing products to market. The last I had heard Apple had sold all there 1st Generation iPhone stock, I would say that is not a mess.
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post #75 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by necro2607 View Post

Okay.

Can anyone actually VERIFY that this so-called conference call happened, and those things were really said, and that there it was ever stated anywhere that Apple Stores in Canada would be selling the iPhone?

As far as I know, it's been known since the beginning that Apple will not have physical iPhones for sale in their stores in Canada. In fact, view this page ( http://todmaffin.com/iphonerumours ) which says: "Will I be able to buy the iPhone at Apple Stores?
No. They will be sold at Rogers/Fido stores only." That article was posted June 27th.

Also, the actual process of selling the phone involves unbricking it ( see here http://iphoneincanada.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=1425 ), and setting up the phone with the cell network.

What does this mean? If Apple DID sell the iPhone 3G in stores, they would have to have a bunch of people from both Rogers and Fido in-store, to handle all of the new accounts (and account upgrades). Does this seem even remotely plausible? There is no way that Apple is going to have another company in their store. Can you imagine the conflict there? And, obviously they would not just sell the phone, and let people walk off with it without signing up the plan/contract - because the $199/$299 price is highly subsidized.

Can anyone provide a single link indicating that it was even once stated that you would be able to buy an iPhone in an Apple Store in Canada on July 11th? Probably not.

As such, the very premise of this news post is incorrect, and it's pure misinformation. Please back up your statements with verifiable links/sources. I'm feeling a bit frustrated that this is all being hyped up as some "Apple vs. Rogers spat" when there's no concrete evidence as such.

Okay, you guys might be right they didn't plan to sell in physical stores in Canada. But, still, why just Rogers? These signup problems exist in all countries, but apparently they are all selling iPhones (according to the CBC article.) So, they must have been able to work out the technical/co-ordination issues everywhere else. Makes Rogers look incompetent.
post #76 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8CoreWhore View Post

All these phone companies are doing is drawing more attention to the "locked phones" situation.

Locked or not, Rogers and AT&T are still the only real option for UTMS. Only if Apple made a CDMA/CDMA2000 version or a carrier switched to GSM/UTMS would they have to worry, and I don't see either of those happening.

If you have a cheaper data plan I'd wait for a proper unlocking hack so you can maintain your current package and just use that SIM in the iPhone, assuming that you are with AT&T or Rogers and that it will allow you on the 3G network. Or just get one of the many EDGE iPhones that will be available latter this month.
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post #77 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmason View Post

Makes Rogers look incompetent.

They are. They're horrible. They have a long history of pissing off every customer they have, individual or corporation. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogers_..._on_rate_plans ) Companies nationwide in Canada are angry at being gouged by high-priced BlackBerry plans, and now individuals nationwide are angry as hell about the iPhone plan pricing. Rogers has been able to continue on with abusive tactics for years because they are the only GSM provider in Canada, and once Fido was bought out by them (I still wonder how that legally even occured), all competition was removed.
post #78 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmason View Post

So, they must have been able to work out the technical/co-ordination issues everywhere else.

Perhaps Rogers is more anal than the others or perhaps it was part of the contractual arrangement to sell the iPhone in Canada knowing they were the only option Apple had.
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post #79 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by necro2607 View Post

I'm feeling a bit frustrated that this is all being hyped up as some "Apple vs. Rogers spat" when there's no concrete evidence as such.

While I suspect these rumours are not true, I LOVE all the anti-Rogers rumours. And the idea of Apple laying a beatdown on Apple in defense of all us Canadian iPhone fans, well you can beat that. It's classic good guy vs. bad guy. Love it!

The people who aren't picking up the basic explanations provided about unlocking (i.e. having a competing compatible 3G network to use) only provide more enjoyment in this thread. So funny.
post #80 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by KindredMac View Post

Typical greed.

The thing that kills me about all of the cell phone data plans and the broadband prices out there is that they are pretty much making pure profit off of all of these things. It's not like they have to "manufacture and distribute" an actual physical commodity. They just have to make sure that the network is open and up and running.

It would be like me charging someone to get onto my WiFi network at home. Once I covered all my expenses of the hardware and service that I have to pay, it is all profit and I don't have to lift a finger to do anything.... ANYTHING!

That's a bright display of ignorance. It takes *billions* of dollars to simply "make sure that the network is open and up and running". Plus the *billions* to buy spectrum from the government. Right, pure profit.

I think Rogers is screwing its customers royally and then twice again, but it is extremely expensive to run a cell network. You simply can't compare your little wifi home network using consumer grade tech compared to cell towers, multiple T1s per tower, data centers, switches, etc...
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