Originally Posted by MarcUK
Im not talking about essentially personal utopian ideology - what I would like to see happen is my own preference, and those preferences are subject to flaws and ignorance as much as any other idealogy, utopian or not.
Well except for the fact that you have just described the downfall of every civilization since the dawn of time. The fact that you think it something new is again, utopian in my view. You define criteria that all current political parties fail to address and the problem is more where the United States happens to be within the arc of being a country/empire than who is currently ruling it.
I'll try to explain with each of your points.
living indefinately far beyond the sustainable means of the country
I'd go even further than that and for reasons you probably won't agree with. The concept of retirement for dozens of years before death, and the concept of the government financing it via intergenerational wealth transfers is clearly not a sustainable means of living and sustaining the country.
Also no country in history has avoided the government tampering with its own currency. This isn't neocon thing anymore than it was a Roman Emperor thing back when. Governments and the promises they have made are what destroys a nation-state. Those promises can be military, they can be societal, no matter what they end up destroying the nation.
The fiat money situation in the U.S. is terrible and I have addressed at length on my blog and here. However it isn't like there is a way to run from it. Every major economy/country on the planet now has a fiat currency and all are printing and manipulating it against each other be it to avoid exporting wealth, gain trade advantages, creation of debt, etc.
bankrupting the nation and exporting the debt fraudulently
Again based of debt as a percentage of GDP, pretty much every western nation is either broke or on their way to being broke. Is the U.S. really fraudulent when it's GDP debt is 60% while France's is 64%, Germany's is 63% and Japan's is 195%?
Every nation that has a large array of entitlements is suffering from this. We can argue that the U.S. has traded their entitlements for a military complex used to create an empire in an attempt to keep peace, but that doesn't mean the others haven't committed spent and still have huge entitlements that are bankrupting them. No one is in the clear with a non-expanding supply of fiat currency or non-fiat currency and a sustainable population including reasonable reproduction rate, and finally entitlements that do not cause debt or create a soon to be bankruptcy scenario.
It doesn't exist. No one has done it. You may like what they are printing money for or creating debt for a little better in one place versus another, but the point is everyone is doing it.
invading other soverign countries to secure new resources
Again who hasn't and won't continue to do this. Is it better if instead of invading your print fake bills to steal the resources?
Russia for example has a national debt that is 7% of GDP and sells oil to Europe which is just as bankrupt as the U.S. Russia has an current entitlement system that I am sure would be considered course or crude by European standards. Yet Europe prints money and creates next to no wealth to give to Russia to pay for the oil. They do this because they have a huge entitlement system.
creating false flag operations to prime nations for invasion or attack
Or better still oil for food systems and ignoring genocide in their backyard.
attempting to destroy any person that attempts to stand up to or desire this stops
Of course the person standing up to it really doesn't desire to replace those they claim are causing the harm and then turn around and cause the same harm. Sure this has been the pattern for... oh .... all of humanity... but still... let's expect different now.
I could go on - for hours!, but you get the picture. This is not standing in opposition because of personal utopian idealogy. This is opposing, because everything you align yourself with is disgusting, corrupt and essentially destined to bring destruction to every person, every culture, every country in the world.
We could both go on for hours. You can reduce your thinking down to binary results, vote for 1 instead of 0 and then still get the same outcome. How has communist or socialist thinking preserved every culture in every country in the world as an example. Both are at their core, claimed scientific attempts to reorganize and better society that specifically ignore culture, traditions, etc.
This is why in my view, the vote that produces the most wealth is the best instead of worrying about how it is distributed fairly. No one has ever distributed it fairly but life has gotten better for all when these rich folks produce millions of cars, televisions, air conditioners, etc all so they can be "richer" than me. You may not claim a personal utopian ideology but you certain talk a global one.
It is just not common sense to persue and align to an idealogy that ultimately brings about everyones destruction.
Myself and other conservatives do not pursue this. Regardless of what you Mr. Frank believe, a belief in self-reliance does not equal self-destruction.
Even if you came to the conclusion that all the above absolutely has to happen and there is no other way, why would you publically align to it?
Even if the sun rises in the East and sets in the West, why would I publicly align to myself to systems that acknowledge this, work within it, and happen to better the lives of all of us in doing so? I do so because pretending the sun can rise in a different manner is pointless. Humans are self-interested creatures. Everyone who claims no self-interest and only good intention sure seems to get rich off of, or exploit the results of those good intentions. Gordon chastises you all not to waste food while eating a banquet. Global warming defenders all fly in on personal jets to meet for extravagant conferences. I don't see many Mother Teresas out there.
Hitler came to power with good intentions. Mao, Castro, Lenin all claimed good intentions and millions died for their 'good' ideas.
Everything neo-con publically aligns to this method of operation, says it has to be this way, and then makes the person feel pride that this is the mode of operation. An inalienable right to have everything, control everything, and be damn proud of it too.
I dont think democrats are much better. In my utopia I would have the lot of them drop dead , but there is something more sick and inhuman about the republican party and the people who align themselves with it.
Again I can go on with examples. I certainly do not think anyone on the left has any sort of moral high ground. A thief is a thief. A thief with printing currency or confiscating with taxes is still a thief. The job either generates enough wealth to give a certain lifestyle or it doesn't and stealing to make that so isn't honorable.