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PlayStation 3, Xbox 360 now fuller rivals to Apple TV - Page 2

post #41 of 127
7/15/08 at 6:14pm
Apple TV needs to add DVR capabilities and then it leaps ahead again.
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post #42 of 127
7/15/08 at 6:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyBoots View Post

Being able to play material from my iTunes on my TV is not worth $229 to me. And it's not going to be worth it to a lot of people considering how the economy is going. Apple has already scaled back it's push of AppleTV. The writing is on the wall. It might stick around, but the promise it had has died out because Apple was slow to add features and get rid of their love of proprietary formats.

The only people who will buy this are apple fanatics or people who are computer illiterate and can only deal with something when it's beyond easy. AppleTV has lost almost all of it's sex appeal in the consumer media player market over the past year.

It could have been a contentendah! It died when Take 2 relegated it to being an iTunes jukebox.
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post #43 of 127
7/15/08 at 6:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by smoketx View Post

Apple TV needs to add DVR capabilities and then it leaps ahead again.

Coulda, shoulda, woulda.
BTW-What's the USB connector in the back for?
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post #44 of 127
7/15/08 at 6:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

Don't forget that you can watch movies on a computer or iPod, so the number of rentals tells us nothing about the number of aTVs.

Very true.

Thanks for reminding me.

As yet, I don't have a video capable iPod/phone

(Damn factories. Work more overtime!)
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post #45 of 127
7/15/08 at 6:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

The flexibility with in the Apple ecosystem and the Apple TV/ iTunes integration is far superior to anything the competition is offering.. It's not ignoring reality, it's fact.

And that's exactly the problem with Apple TV- it's totally inflexible with anything else.
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post #46 of 127
7/15/08 at 7:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nacnud View Post

Just open the Apple TV in the same way as the iphone, with a SDK and allow the USB port to be used for a TV tuner or DVD etc.

Problem solved

Too little, too late. And besides you think Apple would dare cut into its iTunes rentals/sales?
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post #47 of 127
7/15/08 at 7:00pm
(as posted earlier today at Roughly Drafted)

Today Sony announced its new online movie/TV rental/sales store for the PlayStation 3 that essentially matches the AppleTV in selection, picture quality, and content pricing. it goes online tomorrow. there are currently over 4 million PS3's in the US. you can play movies/TV shows you buy also on the PlayStation Portable, analogous to an iPod Touch. there are currently over 10 million PSP's in the US.

obviously this new service is direct competition with AppleTV (both lack NBC/Universal, which is hooked up now with NetFlix/XBox). the PS3 can also serve as a media extender to play all your iTunes and other media on your computer on your TV, just like AppleTV (though not as elegantly). in other words, if you have a PS3 there is no reason to then buy an AppleTV now.

of course the PS3 costs $260 more, but for that you also get a state of the art game console, a top notch bluray DVD player, and a mediocre web browser for your TV.

i'm afraid the AppleTV is looking more and more like Apple's equivalent to the Zune. too little, too late. nearly everyone agrees it needs to serve more functions than just a simple iTunes media extender. adding iPhone remote control is a nice sexy tweak, but it's no going to sell more of them.

The quickest and easiest thing Apple could do is add the Safari web browser with a software update (this has already been hacked). there is no really good browser for TV use yet (the XBox version is mediocre too). that would open up the whole, booming world of online media content to be accessed via your AppleTV. no price increase would be needed.

the emerging consensus is the main function needed is a DVR. this is more complicated, both hardware and software, and legal DRM issues. but right now by default TiVo and the cable companies control that market. TiVo adds its own limited movie rental/sale UnBox service and media extender capability, thus taking away AppleTV sales from the other direction.

And yes, a bluray DVD player would complete the AppleTV package nicely. Then you would have a TiVo killer, and a product that beats the PS3 except for serious gaming.

time is running out. no one is going to buy the AppleTV this christmas as it is.
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post #48 of 127
7/15/08 at 7:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyBoots View Post

The only people who will buy this are apple fanatics or people who are computer illiterate and can only deal with something when it's beyond easy. AppleTV has lost almost all of it's sex appeal in the consumer media player market over the past year.


I got it - make it sexy again and change its name to iTV!
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post #49 of 127
7/15/08 at 7:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by godrifle View Post

Sony is surprising me. Now that PS3 is arguably *the* best Blu-ray player on the market, can now download HD content, and play games, surf, & stream audio/photos/video, play SACDs, act as a DVR, and soon interface with iphone/itouch, it looks like I'll be picking up one for the family (I have 3 kids). $500 aint too bad for all that! Too bad there's not an Apple offering that even comes close. Aside from gaming, these other features are low hanging fruit.

God who'd buy a PS3?

Where's the BlueRay burner?

Who'd buy a device that can't burn BlueRay

All machines don't have to do everything.

Buy a device that does what you want it to do and that does that well.

If you want all of the bells and whistles, get a Multimedia PC running windows...
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post #50 of 127
7/15/08 at 8:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

And that's exactly the problem with Apple TV- it's totally inflexible with anything else.


That's not a problem, that's the reason it is the market leader..
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post #51 of 127
7/15/08 at 8:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post

(as posted earlier today at Roughly Drafted)

Today Sony announced its new online movie/TV rental/sales store for the PlayStation 3 that essentially matches the AppleTV in selection, picture quality, and content pricing. it goes online tomorrow. there are currently over 4 million PS3's in the US. you can play movies/TV shows you buy also on the PlayStation Portable, analogous to an iPod Touch. there are currently over 10 million PSP's in the US.

obviously this new service is direct competition with AppleTV (both lack NBC/Universal, which is hooked up now with NetFlix/XBox). the PS3 can also serve as a media extender to play all your iTunes and other media on your computer on your TV, just like AppleTV (though not as elegantly). in other words, if you have a PS3 there is no reason to then buy an AppleTV now.

of course the PS3 costs $260 more, but for that you also get a state of the art game console, a top notch bluray DVD player, and a mediocre web browser for your TV.

i'm afraid the AppleTV is looking more and more like Apple's equivalent to the Zune. too little, too late. nearly everyone agrees it needs to serve more functions than just a simple iTunes media extender. adding iPhone remote control is a nice sexy tweak, but it's no going to sell more of them.

The quickest and easiest thing Apple could do is add the Safari web browser with a software update (this has already been hacked). there is no really good browser for TV use yet (the XBox version is mediocre too). that would open up the whole, booming world of online media content to be accessed via your AppleTV. no price increase would be needed.

the emerging consensus is the main function needed is a DVR. this is more complicated, both hardware and software, and legal DRM issues. but right now by default TiVo and the cable companies control that market. TiVo adds its own limited movie rental/sale UnBox service and media extender capability, thus taking away AppleTV sales from the other direction.

And yes, a bluray DVD player would complete the AppleTV package nicely. Then you would have a TiVo killer, and a product that beats the PS3 except for serious gaming.

time is running out. no one is going to buy the AppleTV this christmas as it is.

Your entire post shows how little you actually understand the concept of Apple TV. The device is designed for a content on demand future, which is where Steve Jobs sees us headed.. Much like the iPod replaced the cd player, he believes a device like Apple TV will replace the dvd player. Blu-Ray is simply a stop gap format for the ultimate demise of physical media. Apple TV doesn't need any of the features you mention to succeed, it is meant to ultimately replace the features you mention.. Is it there yet? No, but it will be. It's got a great start and even in it's early stages has become the market leader with the best integration into our digital lives via iTunes, Mac, PC and iPod/iPhones.. More content is all that is needed. It will happen.
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post #52 of 127
7/15/08 at 9:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

At the very least these developments might push Apple to finally include an optical drive option for the Apple TV.

There never has been a rational argument for not including an optical drive at least as an option (and no, the fact that digital downloads are "the future" doesn't qualify as a rational reason). Think about it, you'll see it makes no sense.

One wonders why Apple's external portable DVD drive for the MacBook Air wasn't designed to be compatible and stackable with the AppleTV.
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post #53 of 127
7/15/08 at 9:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALPICH View Post

you could not pay me enough to use my XBOX for music / movies. It is way too noisy.

Yes.. watching movies would be dreadful.... rather like sitting in a jumbo getting ready to take off..
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post #54 of 127
7/15/08 at 10:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Coulda, shoulda, woulda.
BTW-What's the USB connector in the back for?

So many things it COULD be used for Connecting....

...a nice big terabyte HD to store all my movies & itunes libraries..

...A print server....

...a flash drive /memory card reader for photos

... a skype phone

...you names it!
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post #55 of 127
7/15/08 at 10:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanchaiman View Post

So many things it COULD be used for Connecting....

...a nice big terabyte HD to store all my movies & itunes libraries..

Get an Airport Extreme or firewire drive attached to your desktop

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Originally Posted by wanchaiman View Post

...A print server....

Airport Extreme

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Originally Posted by wanchaiman View Post

...a flash drive /memory card reader for photos

Load them into iPhoto

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Originally Posted by wanchaiman View Post

... a skype phone

Use your desktop!

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Originally Posted by wanchaiman View Post

...you names it!

OK you got me there. A dock connector for iPhone/Pod...
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post #56 of 127
7/15/08 at 11:06pm
As a former PC gamer who bought an Xbox360 after getting a mac I am very excited with the NetFlix deal. I already have a blast with the movies and shows available on Xbox Live. The NetFlix partnership will skyrocket the available selection to stream at HD without having to go out and buy a player or wait days for a physical movie to arrive.

There are plenty of adults on Xbox Live such as myself. I only play with adults. My friends list consists of financial advisors, nurses and surgeons as well as active armed forces. A diverse population to say the least and plenty with a good amount of disposable income that they spend on gaming and Xbox Live. The gaming industry is already raking in the same amount of money on game launch days as opening weekends of hit movies. It will only get bigger at this point with the consoles getting better and better. And gaming is interactive instead of passive. Much more stimulating.
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post #57 of 127
7/15/08 at 11:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel001 View Post

If Apple wants to stay in the television business in the long term, I think theyll eventually have to start making complete television sets rather than simply set-top boxes. Before long, the kind of technology that AppleTV offers now will just be included in a TV when you buy it, rather than needing separate appliances. They could strike a deal with set manufacturers to include Apple technology in their products, but that would probably be about as successful as the iTunes Motorola ROKR. They already have ample experience in producing displays and audio equipment, so theyd be better off just doing the whole thing themselves; and, being Apple, itd also be a very desirable product.

Thats what I have been saying for 2 years now! Their 30" apple cinema display is gorgous. If they just put that kind of quality and resolution in say a 50" and made it with an imac innards they would really have something. My friend has a mac mini in his living room and it is much better than an apple tv. (granted thats expensive) The point is what everyone wants (if you just think about it) is a computer hooked up to your tv. Well what if the computer IS the tv. Just make it so you can upgrade the normal stuff like HD and ram and everyone will be happy. Why hasn't apple done this already. Thats the way to get into the living room. With their design and integration it would surely sell.
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post #58 of 127
7/15/08 at 11:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALPICH View Post

you could not pay me enough to use my XBOX for music / movies. It is way too noisy.


What kind of speakers do you have in your sound system? I never hear anything from my Xbox360 while watching a movie or listening to music but the movie or song. And both look and/or sound fantastic.


Oh and I forgot to mention that with Connect360 I get to stream media from my mac to my Xbox as well. My home entertainment system is a blast and not expensive at all.

Apple TV is a great product but it's a niche product that makes no sense to the many households that already have an XBox360 or Blu Ray player.
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post #59 of 127
7/16/08 at 12:04am
I recently purchased an Apple TV and I think it's an excellent device!

it has certainly changed my viewing habbits.

The only think I would like it to have is access to streaming services like bbc iplayer and hulu for catchup tv services.

They also need to consider a subscription plan for both TV and Movie content. This combined with the above would make a very interesting device. Overnight Apple becomes an cable tv provider!
TD
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TD
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post #60 of 127
7/16/08 at 12:38am
I think Apple missed the boat with AppleTV. Had they included a a DVD player from the outset I would gladly have thrown out my existing DVD player and bought that instead, and who knows, by now I'd probably be renting or buying all my movies from iTunes. As it is, I'm not even sure what the AppleTV does or is for. I've got about 6 pop videos on my iPod. With an AppleTV I could play them on a big screen? Big deal, I'm not giving up one of my scarce SCART sockets for that.

On the other hand... iPhone 2.0 and the excellent Remote application do have the potential to be a game changer. I am *very* seriously considering going out and buying another Mac Mini (I already have two Mac Book Pro's and a Mac Mini in the study ) to use as media centre purely so I can leave it on connected to my hifi and running iTunes.
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post #61 of 127
7/16/08 at 1:13am
Playstation 3 = Blu-Ray + Next-gen gaming + Netflix ( 90,000 titles ) = £299 = pass
Apple TV = itunes content + 1,000 titles = £199 = fail
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post #62 of 127
7/16/08 at 2:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by iVlad View Post

1. I don't see XBox nor PS3 to be a competitors to Apple TV. Maybe its just me or not, but I see Apple TV targeted towards Family Audience and XBOX and PS3 towards younger generation and teenagers.

I can't see Parents using their kids PS3 to rent movies, kid is not gonna like it because he/she will want to play, so Parents will just get Apple TV for their own use.\

I could. I was thinking of getting an Apple TV, but can't see the point when my PS3 can do everything it can do, and a lot more. It was play media straight off my NAS, the only thing it won't do it play is the protected media off the iTunes store, all that means is I don't buy stuff from iTunes.
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post #63 of 127
7/16/08 at 2:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samnuva View Post

I've been playing with both my old and new iPhones, and I'm starting to realize, The iPhone is going to render the PSP, DS, etc. Obsolete. It's just much more intuative, and as soon as there are better games for it, It is going to blow them out of the playing field. It's quite possible that this could happen with ATV as well.

You might want to compare the prices of the phone, or even the iPod touch, to the portable game machines like the PSP, DS etc. The PSP and DS are around 150 - 180 euro, and a lot less in the US, and apart from buying games, no on-going costs. Plus you can download demo games from the PSN for the PSP
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post #64 of 127
7/16/08 at 3:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4metta View Post

What kind of speakers do you have in your sound system? I never hear anything from my Xbox360 while watching a movie or listening to music but the movie or song. And both look and/or sound fantastic.


Oh and I forgot to mention that with Connect360 I get to stream media from my mac to my Xbox as well. My home entertainment system is a blast and not expensive at all.

He's talking about the noise form the 360 fans and disk drive. You have to be honest, it's loud.

Also, connect360 and medialink for the ps3 are half assed ways to listen to media that's not drm'd.
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post #65 of 127
7/16/08 at 4:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by smoketx View Post

Apple TV needs to add DVR capabilities and then it leaps ahead again.

I believe Sony is already selling a DVR add-on to the PS3 in some countries (unfortunately not the US).
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post #66 of 127
7/16/08 at 4:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by steviet02 View Post

He's talking about the noise form the 360 fans and disk drive. You have to be honest, it's loud.

My Elite is not loud. It is quiet as hell. Maybe he owns a refurbed first gen 360? A friend of mine owns one that was refurbed and hers is loud but even that is not noticeable when we are blasting a movie through a surround sound system.

Quote:
Also, connect360 and medialink for the ps3 are half assed ways to listen to media that's not drm'd.

I happen to enjoy it very much. Sounds good through nice speakers. My favorite way to listen to music is still through my Shure ear monitors and mini amp connected to my Nano but in the house I use the 360.
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post #67 of 127
7/16/08 at 4:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4metta View Post

I happen to enjoy it very much.

Connect360 and medialink haven't worked so well for me. One of them would work for 10 minutes then sponaneously corrupt itself, and support is useless, there's no troubleshooting help. I don't think the other one worked for me at all.

I had high hopes for them as I had a PS3 but no ATV, but they just didn't work for me. I still hope to get an ATV, but I need to get or replace other equipment to accommodate it, making it a $450 upgrade for me.
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post #68 of 127
7/16/08 at 5:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Playstation 3 = Blu-Ray + Next-gen gaming + Netflix ( 90,000 titles ) = £299 = pass
Apple TV = itunes content + 1,000 titles = £199 = fail

+++

People that don't realize that the ATV is in big trouble are are kidding themselves. Sales have always been rumored to be weak. These moves by Sony and MS only undercut the ATV further.

Right now the PS3 seems to have the best feature set of all the 'media hubs' available. I think it(PS3) will do well this Christmas.
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post #69 of 127
7/16/08 at 5:43am
I am 38 and bought the PS3 as a bluray player, I have a few games but they really only get played when the nephews are in town. I have been eyeing an apple tv for some time now and would pull the trigger as would a lot of people if there were a version of the appletv that included a 2.0 bluray player. I would download movies via Itunes but there are some movies that I want to own in full 1080P with all the extras and audio quality. The PS3 now meets this but is lacking itunes compatability. If the apple tv added the bluray compatability I would move the PS3 to my 3 year olds playroom.
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post #70 of 127
7/16/08 at 6:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

Ummm, Okay... I'll iCal it..

So, I see that you registered here on AI today.... Who do you work for Sony or Microsoft?

So someone has to be a Sony or MS employee to know that the Apple TV is a joke?

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post #71 of 127
7/16/08 at 6:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkgator View Post

. If the apple tv added the bluray compatability I would move the PS3 to my 3 year olds playroom.

My AppleTV is going to the bed room. I rarely use it. I use my HD DVD player more than it and that format died!I've rented 2 movies since Take2 was released and just don't like the whole 24hour policy. I think ATV is best for use in a remote location anyway rather than in the living room. I should have bought a MiniMAc instead. I already stream music over airport express anyway. I will use the HDMI for a Blu-ray unless- Does anyone know if you can hook up a Mac MIni with an HDMI cable?
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post #72 of 127
7/16/08 at 6:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Does anyone know if you can hook up a Mac MIni with an HDMI cable?

Yes, you need a DVI to HDMI cable and a seperate audio cable, audio is not run through the DVI connection. I have a MacBook hooked up to a samsung like that, I think apple sells the DVI to HDMI cable, yuou then just need an HDMI cable.
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post #73 of 127
7/16/08 at 6:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

I will use the HDMI for a Blu-ray unless- Does anyone know if you can hook up a Mac MIni with an HDMI cable?

http://www.monoprice.com/products/se...ord=HDMI%20DVI
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post #74 of 127
7/16/08 at 6:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by steviet02 View Post

Yes, you need a DVI to HDMI cable and a seperate audio cable, audio is not run through the DVI connection. I have a MacBook hooked up to a samsung like that, I think apple sells the DVI to HDMI cable, yuou then just need an HDMI cable.

Perfect thanks. Do you think the best way to web surf on a big TV would be via a laptop or MacMini?
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post #75 of 127
7/16/08 at 7:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkgator View Post

I am 38 and bought the PS3 as a bluray player, [...] The PS3 now meets this but is lacking itunes compatability.

NullRiver Software's MediaLink

http://www.nullriver.com/products/medialink
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post #76 of 127
7/16/08 at 7:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Perfect thanks. Do you think the best way to web surf on a big TV would be via a laptop or MacMini?

There is no simple answer, it depends on what you want.. A mini with wireless mouse & keyboard would be pretty good. If you need a computer to take elsewhere, then a notebook can do the same, sitting next to the TV. But using the notebook on your lap connected to a 10-15ft cord to your TV probably isn't a good idea.
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post #77 of 127
7/16/08 at 7:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmjoe View Post

NullRiver Software's MediaLink

http://www.nullriver.com/products/medialink

Have you actually used it?
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post #78 of 127
7/16/08 at 7:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post

(as posted earlier today at Roughly Drafted)

Today Sony announced its new online movie/TV rental/sales store for the PlayStation 3 that essentially matches the AppleTV in selection, picture quality, and content pricing. it goes online tomorrow. there are currently over 4 million PS3's in the US. you can play movies/TV shows you buy also on the PlayStation Portable, analogous to an iPod Touch. there are currently over 10 million PSP's in the US.

obviously this new service is direct competition with AppleTV (both lack NBC/Universal, which is hooked up now with NetFlix/XBox). the PS3 can also serve as a media extender to play all your iTunes and other media on your computer on your TV, just like AppleTV (though not as elegantly). in other words, if you have a PS3 there is no reason to then buy an AppleTV now.

of course the PS3 costs $260 more, but for that you also get a state of the art game console, a top notch bluray DVD player, and a mediocre web browser for your TV.

i'm afraid the AppleTV is looking more and more like Apple's equivalent to the Zune. too little, too late. nearly everyone agrees it needs to serve more functions than just a simple iTunes media extender. adding iPhone remote control is a nice sexy tweak, but it's no going to sell more of them.

The quickest and easiest thing Apple could do is add the Safari web browser with a software update (this has already been hacked). there is no really good browser for TV use yet (the XBox version is mediocre too). that would open up the whole, booming world of online media content to be accessed via your AppleTV. no price increase would be needed.

the emerging consensus is the main function needed is a DVR. this is more complicated, both hardware and software, and legal DRM issues. but right now by default TiVo and the cable companies control that market. TiVo adds its own limited movie rental/sale UnBox service and media extender capability, thus taking away AppleTV sales from the other direction.

And yes, a bluray DVD player would complete the AppleTV package nicely. Then you would have a TiVo killer, and a product that beats the PS3 except for serious gaming.

time is running out. no one is going to buy the AppleTV this christmas as it is.

Adding a Blu-ray drive to the Apple TV would put the price higher than the the PS3. Apple will not take a loss on the hardware. They like their 30+% margins.

I have both. I love both. I would probably be more apt to rent movies via the Apple TV but having the choice is nice and the the PS3 might have a movie that is not available on Apple TV.

No need to play fanboi here.
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post #79 of 127
7/16/08 at 7:29am
The biggest issue for me with the AppleTV is that I am locked into one movie provider. As much as I like Apple, this is one place where I would like choice.

For me, despite being more expensive the Mac Mini makes more sense. My reasoning is that it has a built in DVD drive, the software is easy to upgrade, I can install other software and it can also serve as my media server. While it doesn't have connections such as component video, it does have DVI which is easily converted to HDMI with the right cable.
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post #80 of 127
7/16/08 at 7:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Have you actually used it?

I use it, it works fine
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