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iPhone 3G now all but sold out in 38 states

post #1 of 104
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With the iPhone 3G not even ten days old, virtually all of the Apple retail store stores open within the United States are without any examples of the device to sell on July 21st.

The shortage is severe enough in the 38 states that claim Apple stores that it's easier to count the locations that do have iPhone 3G units than those that don't.

In California, the only Apple store with any iPhones is the Pleasanton store with only 16GB black examples, while New York City's Fifth Avenue store is the only one in all of New York state known to have any examples left, with just 16GB white models in stock.

Only a single Honolulu store and the Salem, New Hampshire store can also claim to have any units available, and each only lists one model as ready for Monday.

Apple has been continually resupplying its stores with new iPhones -- in many cases on a daily basis -- but has seen fewer and fewer of its stores touting next-day availability in the several days since the July 11th debut of the handset upgrade.

The company's own outlets are already seen as the bellwethers for looming American shortages. Sellouts first crept up in late March for Manhattan-area stores but quickly spread through the rest of the country and to AT&T locations in a matter of weeks.

For iPhone 3G, shortages manifested as early as launch day and have spread much more quickly than for the end days of the first model, with AT&T running dry of any guaranteed units before the first weekend was over.

Whether or not Apple's supply will meet demand in time to prevent a repeat of May's complete stockout is also far from certain. When grilled on an unprecedented spike in preorders, Britain's iPhone carrier O2 said it might take "some weeks" before it could satisfy enough of its customers on a regular basis.
post #2 of 104
I hope this is what they wanted.

Otherwise, the same-day, worldwide-opening of this highly anticipated product looks to be a rather bonehead move...
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post #3 of 104
Well I blame China, for taking all the time to prepare for the Olympics and not making iPhones.


lol
jk
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post #4 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bageljoey View Post

I hope this is what they wanted.

Otherwise, the same-day, worldwide-opening of this highly anticipated product looks to be a rather bonehead move...

How is selling out a dumb move? They sold unbelievable quantities; probably as many units as they could manufacture. What were they supposed to do - wait until they could make more (and sell none in the meantime)?
post #5 of 104
Apple is now filling more and more Direct Fulfillment orders from AT&T since they gave them the shaft during launch day. My 16GB black iPhone 3G I ordered on launch day will finally be arriving tomorrow.

Apple just didn't prepare for demand. A worldwide launch sounds like a nice thing, but it's a logistical nightmare. The same with introducing colors at the launch of a new product. You run out of stock of one phone (16GB black) faster than others.

I really think they learned from this launch that a staggered release is the best approach and that they need to ramp up production for a while before any release.
post #6 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bageljoey View Post

I hope this is what they wanted.

Otherwise, the same-day, worldwide-opening of this highly anticipated product looks to be a rather bonehead move...

Or maybe they just misjudged demand. Anyway, how would a staggered launch be any better? That would mean some people get phones and other places get none. Or do you mean that America should have been first according to the "America is the centre of the universe" rule?

BTW, is it just me or is this article written in tortured English?
post #7 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevenmrgan View Post

How is selling out a dumb move? They sold unbelievable quantities; probably as many units as they could manufacture. What were they supposed to do - wait until they could make more (and sell none in the meantime)?

I think he meant not having the whole world selling them on the same day. Such as 4 or 5 countries launching on the 11th, then 4 or 5 more 2 weeks later, and so on so that they could stock all the stores better for each launch. They obviously didn't manufacture enough ahead of time. I still don't have one myself...
post #8 of 104
I don't think staggering a couple weeks was going to help much. In fact, it would have made the "late" countries' customers (and carriers!) even madder.

Production will catch up. It's a nice problem for Apple to have! And generates publicity too.

Not so nice for me, who wanted to get one in about 2 weeks...
post #9 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by dagamer34 View Post

Apple is now filling more and more Direct Fulfillment orders from AT&T since they gave them the shaft during launch day. My 16GB black iPhone 3G I ordered on launch day will finally be arriving tomorrow.

Apple just didn't prepare for demand. A worldwide launch sounds like a nice thing, but it's a logistical nightmare. The same with introducing colors at the launch of a new product. You run out of stock of one phone (16GB black) faster than others.

I really think they learned from this launch than a staggered release is the best approach and that they need to ramp up production for a while before any release.

How is a worldwide launch a logistical nightmare? Just ship the units to where they're going and maybe setup a distributor for bigger markets. It's not like Jobs is personally delivering them by mule. Have you heard of FedEx? Or maybe UPS? They have to supply them there anyway and they surely have enough staff.

Apple is much better off giving everyone a chance to get a phone that releasing in select markets. Who gets to go first? Let me guess: "my country first". You're obviously not suggesting that you wait a few more weeks so someone else could get their phone.
post #10 of 104
merdhead, no one is claiming that their country should be the first, everyone is saying that if they couldn't ramp up production to make enough for all the countries releasing them at the same time, then they should have staggered them. You are the only one assuming that the these people meant their countries first.

It would make sense to do the top selling countries first and then move on to the newer markets at a later period. And why would the US being one of the first countries be bad? It's their original and top selling market... should Zimbabwe be the launching ground of the iphone 3G? It's business, not a game in preschool where everyone is equal.
post #11 of 104
If I were Apple, what I would have done is have the launch on July 11th with each handset costing $600, and pre-announce that in 6 weeks the handsets will be subsidized and start costing $200 with an AT&T (or whatever for your given country) lock-in. That way everyone knows what's happening, Apple can sell them online and have at-home activation (no insane lines), and a tidy extra profit is made off the first phones sold.

Of course, once supply matches demand, do the "second launch" of the $200 phone and do the in-store activation and all that jazz. In the meantime, soak the early adopters for some extra money and let supply and demand dictate the cost.

Or just sell them all at auction.
post #12 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by merdhead View Post

Or maybe they just misjudged demand. Anyway, how would a staggered launch be any better? That would mean some people get phones and other places get none. Or do you mean that America should have been first according to the "America is the centre of the universe" rule?

Thanks for putting words in my mouth, Merd. Nowhere did I even intimate some sort of America First policy. Certainly, I think it would have been cool to begin the rollout in countries that had not had a chance to buy the original iPhone through normal retail channels, like Japan and Mexico and such. [Although this would have been easier if the first gen iPhone had not run out over a month earlier in the other countries.] However, would it have been such an outrage to begin shipping in the US? Apple was an American company last time I checked with the US representing the lion's share of its sales--thus making it the centre of Apple's universe.

Either way, I think maybe it would have been advisable to stager the openings so they could get a better handle on demand and production needs so as not to run out world-wide. While it can generate some good press, if delays continue they can also lead to resentment. Some people might get hyped up about buying a new phone thinking of the iPhone and then purchase another brand if the iPhone is unavailabe for a while. Finally, it could possibly take some of the shine off the vaunted halo. What does it say about the company that couldn't see this comming? I mean I worried about the world-wide rollout as soon as I read about it and I am no genius.


Anyway, as an aside, I remember many of posters knocking on anyone who would wait in line on the first day with statements like "you can wait in line for 5 hours if you want, but I will roll up and buy one at 4:00 PM without any wait at all!" I wonder if they have theirs yet..
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post #13 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

I don't think staggering a couple weeks was going to help much. In fact, it would have made the "late" countries' customers (and carriers!) even madder.

Well, one benefit of staggering is that you can significantly overproduce for the first launch. Then if demand is softer than expected, you can slow production to allow the following rollouts to clear supplies. With a worldwide rollout, you cannot overproduce without worrying about getting stuck with tons of unwanted devices.
Conversely, if demand is significantly higher than expected, there is some time to ramp up production while blowing out the cushion.


Quote:
Production will catch up. It's a nice problem for Apple to have! And generates publicity too.

Probably true. But as I said earlier, it could breed resentment if it continues too long.
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post #14 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by rctshack View Post

merdhead, no one is claiming that their country should be the first, everyone is saying that if they couldn't ramp up production to make enough for all the countries releasing them at the same time, then they should have staggered them. You are the only one assuming that the these people meant their countries first.

It would make sense to do the top selling countries first and then move on to the newer markets at a later period. And why would the US being one of the first countries be bad? It's their original and top selling market... should Zimbabwe be the launching ground of the iphone 3G? It's business, not a game in preschool where everyone is equal.

When someone says staggered, they mean me first then everyone else. Do you think anyone who is complaining about supply and suggesting staggering is volunteering to delay their purchase?

It's all so reasonable when it's just so happens your country is the most important, and that's the attitude, nothing more, nothing less. It's just a American centric point of view and you don't even know you have it.
post #15 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by merdhead View Post

BTW, is it just me or is this article written in tortured English?

YES, that is exactly what I was thinking. It almost hurt to read it.
post #16 of 104
Are you people actually arguing that selling out of your product is a bad thing? What company would rather have product sitting on shelves collecting dust rather than to be sold out?
post #17 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bageljoey View Post

Thanks for putting words in my mouth, Merd. Nowhere did I even intimate some sort of America First policy. Certainly, I think it would have been cool to begin the rollout in countries that had not had a chance to buy the original iPhone through normal retail channels, like Japan and Mexico and such. [Although this would have been easier if the first gen iPhone had not run out over a month earlier in the other countries.] However, would it have been such an outrage to begin shipping in the US? Apple was an American company last time I checked with the US representing the lion's share of its sales--thus making it the centre of Apple's universe.

Either way, I think maybe it would have been advisable to stager the openings so they could get a better handle on demand and production needs so as not to run out world-wide. While it can generate some good press, if delays continue they can also lead to resentment. Some people might get hyped up about buying a new phone thinking of the iPhone and then purchase another brand if the iPhone is unavailabe for a while. Finally, it could possibly take some of the shine off the vaunted halo. What does it say about the company that couldn't see this comming? I mean I worried about the world-wide rollout as soon as I read about it and I am no genius.


Anyway, as an aside, I remember many of posters knocking on anyone who would wait in line on the first day with statements like "you can wait in line for 5 hours if you want, but I will roll up and buy one at 4:00 PM without any wait at all!" I wonder if they have theirs yet..

Yeah, yeah there's a million reasons why America should be first and that's why you're suggesting it. America is No 1, yada, yada, yada. If you were some two bit country in Africa you wouldn't be.

The fact is that staggering will exclude people completely. They won't get one no matter how early they line up. That's unfair to most people and would reflect much more poorly on Apple. And the fact is that international markets are more important than the American market these days (and even more so after the US slips in the deep and long recession that is coming) so American companies can't treat international customers with complete contempt anymore.
post #18 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Are you people actually arguing that selling out of your product is a bad thing? What company would rather have product sitting on shelves collecting dust rather than to be sold out?

People are just sore that they couldn't get their shiny new toy.
post #19 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booga View Post

Or just sell them all at auction.


I like this idea! Talk about free markets setting the price...

As an aside, am always annoyed when tickets to popular concert tours are only available at a significant markup from professional ticket resellers. It just seems wrong to me that the tickets are being sold for, say, $75 originally when a significant portion of them will be resold for much, much more. Why should the concert promoters continue selling at an irrational price letting resellers make the profit?

I assume it is because the backlash against the artist and/or their promoters would be extreme if they were the ones asking $500 a seat.

My solution would be to sell the tickets at a declining rate--sort of a reverse auction. Tickets would be sold in order from best to worst. Prices would start out very high but decline as time passes. Those wanting the best seats would have to pony up while prices were high. Very popular concerts would start selling out earlier and thus would have a higher average selling price.
$100 might get you fantastic seats at a Menudo concert, but might leave you towards the back of a Pearl Jam show...
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post #20 of 104
This past Friday, I called the Apple store in a mall here in Dallas - they told me to hurry. I got on a line with 50 people in front of me. An employee closed the line after 1 more guy behind me and told everyone they only had 16GB Black left. Over the next hour or so, many, many people showed up and were turned away. Some drove from the boonies. I got a perfect specimen - no dead pixels or other visible problems.
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post #21 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by merdhead View Post

Yeah, yeah there's a million reasons why America should be first and that's why you're suggesting it. America is No 1, yada, yada, yada. If you were some two bit country in Africa you wouldn't be.

Jesus, man, get that chip off your shoulder.
Quote:
The fact is that staggering will exclude people completely. They won't get one no matter how early they line up. That's unfair to most people and would reflect much more poorly on Apple. And the fact is that international markets are more important than the American market these days (and even more so after the US slips in the deep and long recession that is coming) so American companies can't treat international customers with complete contempt anymore.


The point here, is expectations. Staggered rollouts happen all the time--especially with hi-tech items for this exact reason. Sony started with the most recent Playstation in Japan months before it got to the US if I remember correctly. This was announced before hand and there were no riots and few recriminations.

And merdhed, please note that I already agreed with you in my reply that you quoted. I NEVER said that the rollout had to begin in the US. They could have started with every country that had not had official resellers of the first gen iPhone and probably would have scored some fantastic publicity.

By the way, your turning this into an America bashing excercise is a little tiresome. Are you rooting for the US to suffer a big recession? Will that make you happy? I mean, I am all about finding fault with American policies and American corporations, but you are putting words into my mouth and seem to be hoping individual Americans get hurt--that makes you a putz in my eyes if it is true...
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post #22 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Are you people actually arguing that selling out of your product is a bad thing? What company would rather have product sitting on shelves collecting dust rather than to be sold out?

Yes, selling out when people want to buy is usually a bad thing. Remember, the options are not simply running out or having too much. To maximize profits you want to have just enough. Running out leads to lost sales. To me, that is a bad thing...


Now, there is always the chance that the hype of selling out creates good publicity and buzz and increases sales in the long term. But this is far from certain. If supply is severly constrained, people will buy other phones.
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post #23 of 104
I guess it was a good thing I waited in line for three hours to get mine! Now they're all gone!
post #24 of 104
I expect to appear an Apple apologist, but this whole multi-platform, multi-national product launch is extremely complicated and kudos go to everyone at Apple and the cellular providers for how well things have actually gone. Apple has the whole world watching as it develops, markets, and produces a very technically complex device for a global market. Sure it would be great if the pent up demand for the iPhone 3G could be immediately satisfied--if product development and testing (including multiple government authorizations) could be completed far enough in advance of product launch that a huge cache could be accumulated. All considered, I'd say Apple pulled it off pretty well. The snafu on Friday 7/11--which was generally confined just to Friday--is not terribly surprising when you've got several corporations with computer systems that must talk with each other on a global scale at a time when a sizable fraction of the 6 million original iPhone owners were also trying to activate their upgraded devices. People forget how difficult the original iPhone launch was, when a mere 250K devices were sold in the first 3 days. This time, 6 million iPhones were already out in the wild and reasonable estimates suggest nearly 500K iPhone 3Gs were sold in the same length of time. Yes, problems remain a week later, but the history of the original iPhone launch suggests Apple will clear up the most serious ones very soon, with a simple software update. At least here's hoping!
post #25 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by rctshack View Post

merdhead, no one is claiming that their country should be the first, everyone is saying that if they couldn't ramp up production to make enough for all the countries releasing them at the same time, then they should have staggered them. You are the only one assuming that the these people meant their countries first.

It would make sense to do the top selling countries first and then move on to the newer markets at a later period. And why would the US being one of the first countries be bad? It's their original and top selling market... should Zimbabwe be the launching ground of the iphone 3G? It's business, not a game in preschool where everyone is equal.

Yes it is business. And how is selling out bad for business? Look at the Wii - one and half year after launch they still had problems with supplying enough. Bad business? Should they wait until they are sure they have enough - before they even know how the market will react? Apple sold more phones in one weekend, than they did in the first 70 days last year. And then some. I think supply was ample for launch - it is just that demand is too high. And high demand creates even higher demand.

Also; they did stagger the launch. There are 50 more countries waiting in line already.

As for Zimbabwe as an alternative launch country - yes, I agree that it makes sense to compare one third world country to the other, but still - how is US the natural launch for a 3G phone? 3G in the US is a joke. Which I think also the salesfigures show. They should have launched the 3G in Europe and Asia now, and let the US have the 1 gen iPhone for another year - so you can catch up with the rest of us. All of Europe was only so-so to the first phone. We all just waited for this release - because you see, 3G is pretty much the standard over here. I know it sounds crazy.
post #26 of 104
Its 11:15 PM PST on July 20th, and I just checked the availability listings for the iPhone 3G. In the U.S., there are only 3 stores that have the iPhone, 1 in CA, 1 in NH, and 1 in NYC. In the U.K., however, all stores have the 8 GB and the 16GB White with only one having the 16GB Black. So either the U.K is getting restocked before the U.S., or it isn't selling as well there. In any event, the sales must be monster in the U.S. for Apple to be having these kind of supply problems.

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post #27 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by iVlad View Post

Well I blame China, for taking all the time to prepare for the Olympics and not making iPhones.k

Aren't these made on Taiwan, the only China worth mentioning?
post #28 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bageljoey View Post

Well, one benefit of staggering is that you can significantly overproduce for the first launch.

There are around 80 countries launching the iPhone 3G this year, yet only 22 were choose from July 11th. That could be construed as staggering.


Quote:
Originally Posted by merdhead View Post

When someone says staggered, they mean me first then everyone else. Do you think anyone who is complaining about supply and suggesting staggering is volunteering to delay their purchase?

I've never used that word to mean "me first."

Quote:
It's all so reasonable when it's just so happens your country is the most important, and that's the attitude, nothing more, nothing less. It's just a American centric point of view and you don't even know you have it.

Where is this anti-American attitude coming from. It doesn't matter what country your from, if Apple were to release a product in one country first wouldn't you figure it would be the country of their origin. I certainly don't expect Top Gear to air on BBC America before it aires on BBC in the UK.

Quote:
Originally Posted by merdhead View Post

Or maybe they just misjudged demand. Anyway, how would a staggered launch be any better?

I think Apple initiated a launch with the most popular countries that use 3G cellphones and spent a long time figuring out how much product it would require. Did they undershoot their estimate or is this planned attempt to great more demand? I think it's the former.

Quote:
BTW, is it just me or is this article written in tortured English?

Yes it was. The use of the word "example" was especially bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by merdhead View Post

Yeah, yeah there's a million reasons why America should be first and that's why you're suggesting it. America is No 1, yada, yada, yada. If you were some two bit country in Africa you wouldn't be.

So you are saying that there are "two bit" countries in Africa? That sound quite elitist. I've been to many countries on almost all continents and no matter how destitute or poor the average populace is there is no place I've visited that I'd describe as such... not even that really filthy one (you know the one I mean).
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post #29 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

I don't think staggering a couple weeks was going to help much. In fact, it would have made the "late" countries' customers (and carriers!) even madder.

Production will catch up. It's a nice problem for Apple to have! And generates publicity too.

Not so nice for me, who wanted to get one in about 2 weeks...

They're already in staggered release mode. 70 countries by the end of the year, remember? The 22 countries where the iPhone is now is just the beginning.
post #30 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

I don't think staggering a couple weeks was going to help much. In fact, it would have made the "late" countries' customers (and carriers!) even madder.

Damn right, the staggered approach of the iphone r1 was the main reason I didn't buy it, by the time it came out in the UK I was already looking forward to the next revision.
A couple of weeks isnt so bad, but would definitely annoy me.
post #31 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by merdhead View Post

BTW, is it just me or is this article written in tortured English?

isn't it always?
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post #32 of 104
I'm glad i got up early and queued
not so sad now am I :P
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post #33 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPhone91 View Post

Its 11:15 PM PST on July 20th, and I just checked the availability listings for the iPhone 3G. In the U.S., there are only 3 stores that have the iPhone, 1 in CA, 1 in NH, and 1 in NYC. In the U.K., however, all stores have the 8 GB and the 16GB White with only one having the 16GB Black. So either the U.K is getting restocked before the U.S., or it isn't selling as well there. In any event, the sales must be monster in the U.S. for Apple to be having these kind of supply problems.

Basically, most people in the UK want the 16GB Black unit. The 8GB is considered far too small and the white one just looks cheap and naff. If you're going to pay £150 for a phone which you're planning to keep for a while there's no point in buying the second best.

Oh, and the stock update isn't to be relied upon. I checked it on Friday night and it said that the Southampton Apple Store had 16GB Black iPhones. However, after a 2 hour trip there on Saturday morning I was told (after 20 minutes in a stationary queue) that they'd run out of those on Friday evening. (The stock update didn't change until Sunday evening to reflect this.)

As for the people in the queue when told about the lack of 16GB black stock, most (including myself) just gave up and left.
post #34 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

There are around 80 countries launching the iPhone 3G this year, yet only 22 were choose from July 11th. That could be construed as staggering.

True, true enough. I missed that. But is it my imagination or are the 22 July 11th countries the biggest fish in the market? If so, then the benefits of staggering are somewhat lost...
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post #35 of 104
I'm told by Apple store sales staff that many (Apple) stores receive small shipments of iPhone 3Gs just about every day but Sunday, but the daily allotments aren't enough that the stores are indicated on www.apple.com as having stock for the next day, and the staff don't know when the shipments will arrive nor how many. Shipments at this one particular store have arrived any time from 9-noon. But a person could wait for hours and no iPhones would be delivered. The iPhones arrive in boxes of 10 of each model. Stores that produce higher sales figures tend to receive more boxes. The store I inquired at is a full-sized store, generally busy, and had received 6 boxes (60 iPhones) that day, with some of all 3 models.
post #36 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by petter View Post

3G in the US is a joke. Which I think also the salesfigures show. They should have launched the 3G in Europe and Asia now, and let the US have the 1 gen iPhone for another year - so you can catch up with the rest of us. All of Europe was only so-so to the first phone. We all just waited for this release - because you see, 3G is pretty much the standard over here. I know it sounds crazy.

Yeah, it sounds crazy because IMHO you're giving too much credit to 3G. I own three 3G smartphones (AT&T and Verizon), including an HTC 8525, none of which were satisfying -- only because of their lousy web browsers and e-mail programs. Thanks to Apple and the original iPhone, none of those 3G phones has been used in over a year, even though they are far faster at rendering crap--in the backward U.S.A. no less!--and burned through batteries like nobody's business.
post #37 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

There are around 80 countries launching the iPhone 3G this year, yet only 22 were choose from July 11th. That could be construed as staggering.



I've never used that word to mean "me first."


Where is this anti-American attitude coming from. It doesn't matter what country your from, if Apple were to release a product in one country first wouldn't you figure it would be the country of their origin. I certainly don't expect Top Gear to air on BBC America before it aires on BBC in the UK.


I think Apple initiated a launch with the most popular countries that use 3G cellphones and spent a long time figuring out how much product it would require. Did they undershoot their estimate or is this planned attempt to great more demand? I think it's the former.


Yes it was. The use of the word "example" was especially bad.


So you are saying that there are "two bit" countries in Africa? That sound quite elitist. I've been to many countries on almost all continents and no matter how destitute or poor the average populace is there is no place I've visited that I'd describe as such... not even that really filthy one (you know the one I mean).

I think you miss my point, if my name is Andrew Aadrvark, I'd be supporting handing out iPhones and most other things in alphabetical order. The people who talk about staggering are merely saying that they are entitled to a phone before someone else and these people are American, which reflects the attitude.

Now I have nothing against America, I sometimes live in America, have American friends and buy American products. It isn't just an anti-American rant, it's a critique of the American attitude.

And yes, Africa is full of two-bit countries, it's the least developed continent on Earth. How is saying that elitist? What wrong with favouring the elite? Or are you a communist, each according to his need, from each according to his labour? That's strange if true, because at the price, the iPhone is not the People's phone, comrade.
post #38 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by dagamer34 View Post

Apple is now filling more and more Direct Fulfillment orders from AT&T since they gave them the shaft during launch day. My 16GB black iPhone 3G I ordered on launch day will finally be arriving tomorrow.

I also went the direct fulfillment route but not until last Thursday. It'll be interesting to see when mine shows up.
post #39 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by iVlad View Post

Well I blame China, for taking all the time to prepare for the Olympics and not making iPhones.


lol
jk

LOL Funny!
post #40 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bageljoey View Post

By the way, your turning this into an America bashing excercise is a little tiresome. Are you rooting for the US to suffer a big recession? Will that make you happy? I mean, I am all about finding fault with American policies and American corporations, but you are putting words into my mouth and seem to be hoping individual Americans get hurt--that makes you a putz in my eyes if it is true...

I'm just stating the facts, not bashing. The recession is coming whether you or I like it or not. I mainly look at events from the point of view of how they affect me, not other people. Yes, many Americans may suffer, but people suffer everyday (see Zimbabwe). Mostly countries create their own misery (see American and Zimbabwe), why should I worry about people who's outcomes are in their own hands? People should take responsibility for themselves.
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