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Apple plans mystery "product transition" before September's end - Page 6

post #201 of 735
7/22/08 at 3:51am
It's possible the margin comment and the transition comment were co-mingled and this is causing confusion. If you consider how many iPod touches that Apple is giving away there's no question that margins are going to suffer in this quarter.
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post #202 of 735
7/22/08 at 3:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by elkabyle View Post

"The new, unnamed product will continue to have "technologies and features that others can't match," according to the CFO."

I think that that's probably just marketing hyperbole, so we shouldn't worry too much about which Apple products we think have features that others "can't match". Having said that, I think Messiah's point about OS X (that it's technology others can't match) is valid, so there's a possibility Oppenheimer was referring to OS X, multi-touch or both.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eriky View Post

"the company will make a key "product transition" that cuts back on its profit margins to help shut out rivals"

Did Oppenheimer actually say "shut out rivals" or is that interpretation by those reporting on the call?

I'm sure this is about either iPods or MacBooks. I really hope it's MacBooks because I'm planning on getting the new MacBook Pro whenever it appears.
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post #203 of 735
7/22/08 at 3:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eriky View Post

It's amazing you are the first to say this after so many posts. It sounds pretty clear to me:

"the company will make a key "product transition" that cuts back on its profit margins to help shut out rivals"

Apple is working hard on Snow Leopard and we all know it won't have much new features. They told us they are improving stability and such. My guess is that they are adding drivers and making the OS ready for mainstream pc's! It's a small step to make while it could mean a huge step in the desktop market. This would be a tremendous hit to Microsoft. Since Vista is doing so terrible companies are looking hard for a replacement and that replacement could very well be OSX. It will put big pressure on the margins on Apple computer hardware, like they said.

We say it over and over again. It's not that it would not be profitable to license OSX to other PC manufacturers, it's just that it wouldn't be possible to do without drastically degrading the high standards of the macOS. The only reason Apple is able to (more or less) keep on top of things with OSX is that they also have control of the hardware that it runs on. I'm not even going to go into the details, because it's been explained millions of times on these forums.

OSX on non apple hardware: you can forget about it.

Quote:
It's a small step to make while it could mean a huge step in the desktop market.

Are you insane? making OSX function on all PCs would cost millions of dollars years and years of work.
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post #204 of 735
7/22/08 at 3:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson1 View Post

It's possible the margin comment and the transition comment were co-mingled and this is causing confusion. If you consider how many iPod touches that Apple is giving away there's no question that margins are going to suffer in this quarter.

They predicted lower margins for the whole of financial 2009. The iPod touch give-away won't last that long.
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post #205 of 735
7/22/08 at 4:03am
New Macbook Air versions with 15" or 17" screens?
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post #206 of 735
7/22/08 at 4:13am
How about we reread this: the company will make a key "product transition" that cuts back on its profit margins to help shut out rivals.

Whose rivals are they likely or aiming to shut out? I can only think of the iPhone, but I doubt there are any significant changes on the cards for now. Another possibility might be iTunes.

When I think product transition I think of a change in business plan for some particular product or line of products, a change in market or some technological change (like the intel transition).

Although I wouldn't normally think these are probable, they are the only that come to mind that fit "key product transition".

Apple begins to sell off its software products to other companies (cringely claimed before that this is already happening)
Apple starts licensing OSX to other manufacturers OR starts allowing others to make apple approved mac computers (not necessarily PCs with OSX).
An iTunes subscription service, all you can eat movies and music for a flat fee.
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post #207 of 735
7/22/08 at 4:25am
Simple: The merger of the MacMini and the Apple Tv. In other words an Apple TV with a disk drive. It will now run OSX as an option: surf the web, shop Amazon, eBay , etc. Choose either Tv or Mac like Parallels.
Bye, Bye to both - Hello to Mac TV!!!
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post #208 of 735
7/22/08 at 4:26am
Well.

September?

I hope not. Today you can buy a brand new Windows Vista portable with Centrino 2 inside. On Apple what can you buy? I'll tell you... A very old Macbook Pro design with Santa Rosa platform, a very old case-cracking Macbook with Santa Rosa platform and a ultra-crippled Macbook Air.

As a result, September, correction, before September end , is just too far away. Apple adopted Intel processors, should move at Intel pace.

I hope something surfaces from Apple before July end, not September!

How about a eee-type Apple computer? And a Sony's SZ-type one? Yes, the one I was hopping when they let all vanish in the Air...

Best regards everyone,

Gear: Macbook 2.2GHz, 4GB, 200GB 7200
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post #209 of 735
7/22/08 at 4:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by paprochy View Post

Are you insane? making OSX function on all PCs would cost millions of dollars years and years of work.

That's what a number of people were saying about OS X on Intel before it was released. And then SJ dropped the bomb and revealed that Apple had been secretly working on it all along.

OS X already works on PCs - they're just PCs manufactured by Apple. In many respects, if this is the transition in question, Apple has already done all the hard work.

There's no doubt that Mac OS on third party hardware would require some type of certification programme (you can see the mess that the hackintosh crowd get themselves into), but these certification programmes are (I should imagine) self-funding. There are already a number of third party manufacturers that say their products will work with Mac OS and their drivers don't cause too many problems for Apple. Printer manufacturers are a good example.

There are only a handful of processor manufacturers, and a handful of GPU chipset manufacturers, and chances are Apple are in bed with them already. They're probably already in bed with the soundcard manufacturers and everyone else for that matter.

Apple wouldn't have to offer Mac OS support for every single PC component out there they may even choose not to offer support for legacy hardware. Apple could set the bar high and stipulate which select PC components were certified, and build the base from there. They would just say 'right, from this point onwards if you want you products to work seamlessly with Mac OS it was to follow these guidelines.

I've always suspected that Boot Camp was a switcher app. Buy an Apple safe in the knowledge that it'll run Windows, but you know, feel free to tinker around with the Mac OS as well, and then you realise that the Mac OS is a better environment and you might switch completely.

Mac OS on third party hardware is simply taking this approach a step further.

I'm interested in two things:
1. the average profit that Apple makes on a boxed copy of Mac OS
2. the average profit that Dell makes on a cheapskate PC

Wouldn't it be great to be able to make money out of the cheapskate PC market without having to manufacture the hardware?

I'd also like to point out at this stage that I don't necessarily think that Mac OS on third party hardware is a good idea but I think it will appeal to the current mentality of Apple's board.
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post #210 of 735
7/22/08 at 5:02am
When it comes to these rabid speculation threads, AI is the best IMHO, because of the informed and well argued posts by clearly knowledgeable posters, so thank you all for that.

Taking my turn off the diving board, I think the PASemi acquisition is key here. IIRC, before the Intel switch, Apple designed and produced their own logic boards, but after the switch it made sense to take them off-the-shelf from Intel. This would have given a clear cost advantage, but on the downside, as mentioned, open up a Mac and it is exactly the same components as all the rest. Apple and PA had been working together for a few years before the purchase, so perhaps the timing of that was tactical, just as whatever they were working on was ready for implementation.

So what if Apple is going back to designing (possibly in collaboration with Intel) their own logic boards again, but now with a PASemi/Apple secondary chip on there. This could be for video/graphics acceleration, or perhaps something to do with implementing multi-processor friendly hardware. This could (here in speculationland) provide a "revolutionary" advantage across the Mac range, and as it would be due to a proprietary chip rivals would be "locked out" (including all varieties of 'Hackintoshes'). There would be cost implications, hence the trimmed margins, but Apple uniqueness would go back to hardware as well as software. My tuppence.

PS Having recently watched all 16 episodes of "Foyle's War'" on DVD (he's a Detective Chief Superintendent BTW) I agree it is a superb series, and it takes a bit to excite my TV jaded palate these days. My only question is 'how the hell did ITV produce something that good?'
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post #211 of 735
7/22/08 at 5:14am
Is there a transcript of the results call online? I think people are reading too much into this and missing the elephant in the room.

The 'product transition' is actually happening now - it's the iPhone 3G and the App store. Apple is hoping to sell a boat load of them next year and the margins on them are slim, like any phone except the old iPhone which had bigger margins. This reduces Apple's overall margins. The fallout financially for Apple won't be in this past quarter's results so as far as a CFO is concerned it's a future transition that isn't reported until the end of the quarter.

Look at the figures they quoted. Reduced margins this quarter are during the iPhone 3G launch - they've 20 more countries to add in August. The more they sell, the more their overall margin goes down.

Then they've got the iPod Touch revision and possibly iPod nano going touch too. They want those to run App Store apps. They'd have to take a significant hit on the nano though to cram in OSX, accelerometers, touch screen and possibly wifi.

Maybe I'm wrong but I really think that's 'all' this is.
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post #212 of 735
7/22/08 at 5:23am
[QUOTE=solsun;1282460]"""" "During his quarterly financial results call, Apple's chief financial officer Peter Oppenheimer revealed that the company will make a key "product transition" that cuts back on its profit margins to help shut out rivals." """""

-------------------

The key word here is that it's a "KEY" product transition.. How many "KEY" products does Apple have? Three. The Mac, iPod and iPhone.

The iPhone was just updated. We all know that the entire Mac line is not going to be updated by September, and even if it was and Apple cut Mac prices so that it's profit margin was down to zero, it would still not "shut out rivals."

It's the iPod line folks..[/QUOTE


I agree they will include improvements and changes to the ipod line, but price movement on an updated touch (we want more memory) would be enough - and I maintain they may dump the classic if the touch gets enough memory, but they won't do away with something with a form factor like the existing nano. But that can't be "it," as you suggest. An all touch ipod line would do little more than induce yawns among most. Been there, done that last year (i.e. whats new and better about a smaller itouch. The iphone is already better than that.

If they don't refresh the laptop and desktops, AND either maintain or even lower prices, their upward trends will reverse as better equipped and much cheaper Montevina and Nephalim windows machines (with Blue Ray option) flood the market. I'm betting the big new thing will be the touchscreen notebook a la the patent drawings we've all seen. That would attract a lot of attention. And, at the same time, moving the other macs to touchscreen (longer time frame) would be the next move. If they can upgrade the imac and or macbooks with a touch screen in the near term refresh and even hold price, I think that would be enough of a game changer to live up to the hype.
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post #213 of 735
7/22/08 at 5:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Messiah View Post

That's what a number of people were saying about OS X on Intel before it was released. And then SJ dropped the bomb and revealed that Apple had been secretly working on it all along.

OS X already works on PCs - they're just PCs manufactured by Apple. In many respects, if this is the transition in question, Apple has already done all the hard work.

There's no doubt that Mac OS on third party hardware would require some type of certification programme (you can see the mess that the hackintosh crowd get themselves into), but these certification programmes are (I should imagine) self-funding. There are already a number of third party manufacturers that say their products will work with Mac OS and their drivers don't cause too many problems for Apple. Printer manufacturers are a good example.

There are only a handful of processor manufacturers, and a handful of GPU chipset manufacturers, and chances are Apple are in bed with them already. They're probably already in bed with the soundcard manufacturers and everyone else for that matter.

Apple wouldn't have to offer Mac OS support for every single PC component out there they may even choose not to offer support for legacy hardware. Apple could set the bar high and stipulate which select PC components were certified, and build the base from there. They would just say 'right, from this point onwards if you want you products to work seamlessly with Mac OS it was to follow these guidelines.

I've always suspected that Boot Camp was a switcher app. Buy an Apple safe in the knowledge that it'll run Windows, but you know, feel free to tinker around with the Mac OS as well, and then you realise that the Mac OS is a better environment and you might switch completely.

Mac OS on third party hardware is simply taking this approach a step further.

I'm interested in two things:
1. the average profit that Apple makes on a boxed copy of Mac OS
2. the average profit that Dell makes on a cheapskate PC

Wouldn't it be great to be able to make money out of the cheapskate PC market without having to manufacture the hardware?

I'd also like to point out at this stage that I don't necessarily think that Mac OS on third party hardware is a good idea but I think it will appeal to the current mentality of Apple's board.

You know what? I take back my statement about selling OSX on other hardware possibly being profitable. I forgot about the well known concept that Apple really doesn't make that much money on OSX, instead they make a killing on the hardware that you have to buy in order to run their OS. Now, for them to make decent money by selling retail boxes of OSX to run on 3rd party hardware they would have to make the price quite high (somewhere around vista's $400). So at the same time, if they where to license OSX to Dell etc then they would have to charge quite a bit for that (taking into account the much smaller volume of such "OSX dells" than Vista boxes). I just don't see this being very promising for Apple, especially since in the last few years their market share in computers has grown drastically. Why would they jeopardize their high margin hardware sales if that's been going so well.

As for the technical side of it. I still think that such a strategy would ruin the Apple philosophy of a simple elegant and able package. The truth is that there is actually A LOT of hardware out there, and to write support for it all would just be...ughgh. The certification method you described would greatly limit sales possibilities therefore destroying the whole point of diversifying the OSX (to 3rd parties) platform in the first place.

Yes, macs are basically PCs. But they are PCs with very specific components. Ask any (honest) Hackintosh owner, and he will admit that the whole "it just works" motto doesn't apply to his Frankenmac.
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post #214 of 735
7/22/08 at 5:48am
I really think that Apple will start the transition to touch screen desktop, notebooks, and screens now that Snow Leopard will be coming out sometime next year (assuming that Apple will include touch interface in 10.6). Clearly they cannot charge more for a feature that doesn't work yet and they need to sell more 10.6 to those who will be upgrading their Macs. Apple can sell few million Macs with touch screen capability until 10.6 is released and then those who bought them will have to upgrade to enable the new future. I think that new features in Snow Leopard, except for touch UI, will be available for Leopard users.
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post #215 of 735
7/22/08 at 5:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Messiah View Post

That has to be Mac OS, because Apple's competitors will be able to match everything else if they put their minds to it.

Mac OS is the only thing that Apple has exclusivity on, and when Apple is selling Mac OS it often refers to it's 'technologies and features'.

If Apple opens up the Mac OS, it still retains exclusivity of the Mac OS. The question is not whether Mac OS will trounce Windows et al, but whether people will still buy Apple hardware - and I think that the MacBook Air has shown that there are a huge number of conspicuous consumers out there with more money than sense. Apple could end up building only high-end, high-margin hardware... whilst still making money out of the budget PC market where there is little or no margin in the hardware itself.

I think Messiah might have nailed it.


I don't think Apple will be moving to sell boxed copies of OS X on your home-built PC. But I can imagine Apple allowing partners to ship OS X on hardware which has passed Apple's ratification process.

At this moment in time, there is massive dis-satifaction with Microsoft from hardware manufacturers. Now would be the perfect time to make the transition.

Imagine if SONY moved its entire VAIO range to Mac OS X, Apple would take a hit in the total number of Macs shipped. But the market penetration for the OS would leap forwards.

Apple *is* a software company. But one which is happens to make its own hardware. By retaining control, it could have the best of both worlds.

C.
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post #216 of 735
7/22/08 at 5:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

During his quarterly financial results call, Apple's chief financial officer Peter Oppenheimer revealed that the company will make a key "product transition" that cuts back on its profit margins to help shut out rivals.

...

The Cupertino, Calif.-based company often introduces products to the market with new technology at a high price, according to the executive, but often seeks to drive the price lower over time. It never wants to create a profit margin so wide that it crease an "umbrella" for rivals that lets them safely undercut Apple's pricing and steal sales.

The new, unnamed product will continue to have "technologies and features that others can't match," according to the CFO.

...


Sorry mate! If you are talking about notebooks, then your rivals have been already successfully stole your sales. Looks at what the others do, pushing notebooks out with the new C2D and ?45 chipset at the "ready for back-to-school" summer time. Unless, of couse, if you think summer begin at September...

If you are talking about workstations, then you might still have a chance. As we only see the p45 chips in the DIY market, which you are not aiming for...

Good Luck mate
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post #217 of 735
7/22/08 at 5:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

I think Messiah might have nailed it.


Apple *is* a software company. But one which is happens to make its own hardware. By retaining control, it could have the best of both worlds.

C.

Wrong, Apple is a hardware company. This has been discussed over and over again.
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post #218 of 735
7/22/08 at 6:06am
During the Q3 2007 financial results conference call Apple also noted product transition and lower margins because of this. Few weeks later, on August 7th, the new iMac was introduced. The 24" unit was aggressively priced considering size, old model prices etc. but was not cheap.
The iMac, iPod and iPhone sales gave Apple a good understanding how prices affect volumes.
Currently, the product transition could be new Mac Book and Mac Book Pro models, possibly other new stuff too. Not necessarily a breakthrough new device. If aggressively priced, these could bring Apple to a new shipping volumes level and further accelerate the astonishing growth of Mac sales.
Apple can go ahead with similar steps for the iPhone product line.
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post #219 of 735
7/22/08 at 6:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by paprochy View Post

Wrong, Apple is a hardware company. This has been discussed over and over again.

Wrong, Apple is neither a software or a hardware company. Apple provides an integrated product.

There are tons of evidence for this. One of the latest:

Consider MBA.
If Apple was a hardware company only it could not afford shipping a notebook w/o DVD drive because Windows does not have the Remote Disk functionality and this would significantly affect product usability.
If Apple was a software company it would have no reason to implement Remote Disk functionality because all laptops have a built-in DVD drive anyway.

Another example: the multi-touchpad and Apple software (iPhoto, Preview, Safari etc.).
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post #220 of 735
7/22/08 at 6:24am
Apple designed motherboards?
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post #221 of 735
7/22/08 at 6:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

Yup

Tablet : unlikely, as that would be a totally new product, not a transition.

Mac Mini becomes the xMac: I wish, but I don't think so. Oppenheimer said Apple "often introduces products to the market with new technology at a high price, but often seeks to drive the price lower over time". The Mac Mini is hardly new.

MacBook plastic -> aluminium transition: very likely.

Radical MacBook Air price drop: highly probable.

Brilliant. Essentially it is an ass-whooping rejig of the MacBook Air, MacBook, MacBook Pro. MacBook Air would be the one where their margins would have to drop severely to do some real good price points on that.
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post #222 of 735
7/22/08 at 6:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow View Post

During the Q3 2007 financial results conference call Apple also noted product transition and lower margins because of this. Few weeks later, on August 7th, the new iMac was introduced. The 24" unit was aggressively priced considering size, old model prices etc. but was not cheap.
The iMac, iPod and iPhone sales gave Apple a good understanding how prices affect volumes.
Currently, the product transition could be new Mac Book and Mac Book Pro models, possibly other new stuff too. Not necessarily a breakthrough new device. If aggressively priced, these could bring Apple to a new shipping volumes level and further accelerate the astonishing growth of Mac sales.
Apple can go ahead with similar steps for the iPhone product line.

Basically Apple wants to move massive volumes of laptops (shifting a lot of focus away from iMac and Mac Pro) over the next 3-5 months. Desktops coming in back to hold their own during holiday buying frenzy.

Expect huge volumes of solid state purchases. They may be top 5 of 120-160gb range solid state drive purchasers in the next six months.
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post #223 of 735
7/22/08 at 6:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by aNewbie View Post

Sorry mate! If you are talking about notebooks, then your rivals have been already successfully stole your sales. Looks at what the others do, pushing notebooks out with the new C2D and ?45 chipset at the "ready for back-to-school" summer time. Unless, of couse, if you think summer begin at September...

If you are talking about workstations, then you might still have a chance. As we only see the p45 chips in the DIY market, which you are not aiming for...

Good Luck mate

LOL You're suggesting that the great thing about new laptops that edge out the Macs is the "C2D P45" and so on? A chipset and CPU in and of itself does not a fantastic "back-to-school" laptop make. Obviously you don't get what Apple is about. Also, what have the rivals stolen? Apple consistently sells more Mac than the year before...

BTW I know something about DIY It's not always just about the latest chipset...







Shocking to some, I know. Sorry, rest assured it was a defunct PowerMac G5 whose case I used.
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post #224 of 735
7/22/08 at 6:35am
Think about it. A reading device! Perhaps not it's own device, but think of the ipod touch with a new e-ink accessory? I mean, you already have a device that can provide power, it has wireless abilities....that would be awesome!

It makes complete sense. Jobs could include the book subscriptions in iTunes and consume the e-book, e-newspaper ecology.

It just makes sense.
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post #225 of 735
7/22/08 at 6:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_dlg View Post

Think about it. A reading device! Perhaps not it's own device, but think of the ipod touch with a new e-ink accessory? I mean, you already have a device that can provide power, it has wireless abilities....that would be awesome!

It makes complete sense. Jobs could include the book subscriptions in iTunes and consume the e-book, e-newspaper ecology.

It just makes sense.

If it's like a foldable dual 13inch (think macbook air but with LED LCD screen on both inner sides, full multi-touch), this would be THE EBOOK THAT WILL DEFINE THE 21ST CENTURY when publishing took a step out of the gutterberg(sic, get it?) into the light.

Maybe the big thing is that colleges across the USA will have these as an option - full MacEbook for all your courses, never worry about leaving your books back in the dorm or at your friends' place or losing it.

THE E-LEARNING REVOLUTION THAT WAS PROMISED TO US.

A US $99 version for all developing countries. !! Wow. My mind just blew.
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post #226 of 735
7/22/08 at 6:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_dlg View Post

Think about it. A reading device! Perhaps not it's own device, but think of the ipod touch with a new e-ink accessory? I mean, you already have a device that can provide power, it has wireless abilities....that would be awesome!

It makes complete sense. Jobs could include the book subscriptions in iTunes and consume the e-book, e-newspaper ecology.

It just makes sense.

It cannot be less than 10" per screen! But other than that I am loving your idea. Imagine if it could fold 4-way or 6-way. Foldable multi-touch screen laptops. If Apple pulls it off, no-one else would come close for at least another year. Unless them China-based manufacturers go AWOL on Apple and do some dirty deeds.
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post #227 of 735
7/22/08 at 6:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

If it's like a foldable dual 13inch (think macbook air but with LED LCD screen on both inner sides, full multi-touch), this would be THE EBOOK THAT WILL DEFINE THE 21ST CENTURY when publishing took a step out of the gutterberg(sic, get it?) into the light.

Maybe the big thing is that colleges across the USA will have these as an option - full MacEbook for all your courses, never worry about leaving your books back in the dorm or at your friends' place or losing it.

THE E-LEARNING REVOLUTION THAT WAS PROMISED TO US.

A US $99 version for all developing countries. !! Wow. My mind just blew.

E Ink has the ability to be layered on top of an OLED display and serve has a dual function screen. I don't envision on side lcd and the other eink...you'd still need the protection for the screen...but perhaps a new manufacturing ability to just spray on the eink on apple's current led lcd screen or adopt new oled screens and voila! If this were the case, then yes a twisting screen would be needed.
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post #228 of 735
7/22/08 at 6:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by paprochy View Post

You know what? I take back my statement about selling OSX on other hardware possibly being profitable...

Agreed. Guys, there's no way Apple is going to be selling OS X for PC anytime this year. Srsly.
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post #229 of 735
7/22/08 at 6:55am
Or the tablet pc that we've been speculating for years. But here's the kicker of how it would work.

It would be the thinnest screen on earth. And would have no intelligence built in...just wifi and the most basic processor. Then computing would occur over wifi to ipod touch or iphone. I mean we already have the OS on the devices...and apple has no qualms about using wifi (airport express itunes controll(5yrs+), touch/iphone itunes control, apple tv control, hard drive over network (macbook air).
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post #230 of 735
7/22/08 at 6:56am
you know what. SJ is also coming to terms with the market dominance that his company can achieve...I'm seriously expecting that they'll be pulling out all the stops 2008/2010.
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post #231 of 735
7/22/08 at 7:05am
I think Apple may be on a slippery slope here. Saying your going to kill the competition by making sure they can't under cut your prices is a little monopolistic isn't it? I mean they don't have enough PC share to garner any law suits but if they bring out something that completely kills the competition in the mp3 market I can easily see SanDisk, Archos, and even MS jumping on board saying Apple is involved in un-competitive practices and they are trying to create a monopoly. I just think they need to watch their words a little closer as they become bigger and bigger and have more and more control over stuff like the digital music market...
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post #232 of 735
7/22/08 at 7:05am
Noticed a few predictions that really don't make sense if you look at what Apple has done.

Blu-ray support - Er...what was so radically different about the MacBook Air? Right, it completely lacked a disc drive. Their most successful products - iPods and now the iPhone - don't use disc drives. And last year everyone probably remembers how they didn't really overhaul iDVD. Apple is moving away from disc based media, not towards it. They also pretty much prohibit any form of DRM other than their own humane FairPlay, which is mainly there because of the music labels and movie studios, not because they wanted it.

Touch-screen Macs - I can see the thought process, but Apple has already put Multi-Touch into two of their three laptops in the last few months: the MacBook Air and the MacBook Pro. Why would they then slap a Multi-Touch display on any of their computers? Side note: Apple likely won't add Multi-Touch to their Cinema Displays, nor the iMac. Why? Because Apple is looking to the future, which is mobile WiFi devices like the iPhone, iPod touch, and MacBook Air, not desktops. Not saying they're going to kill the iMac or Mac Pro anytime soon, but they sell many more laptops and they promote mobile platforms.

Licensing Mac OS X to third parties - Never happening. Apple's a hardware company. They use software to add value to their products and differentiate them from the competition. The reason Mac OS X is so much more stable than Windows and even Linux is because it is run off hardware built for it, and vice versa. Apple could never hope to support the umpteen PC configurations out there. Don't forget, Windows is successful because of anti-competitive, anti-consumer exclusive OEM deals with third part hardware vendors that stifle competition from alternatives like Linux and Microsoft promotes closed, proprietary formats like WMA and WMV that tie the user to their platform. If Apple tried to sell Mac OS X on its own for profit, they'd be going up against a monopoly that even the free Linux distros are having a hell of a time breaking into.

Don't forget, Apple is outpacing the PC industry 3 to 1. They have no reason to move into the stagnating market they're competing and winning against. Remember, all software they do make Windows compatible is...FREE. iTunes and Safari. MobileMe is selling software as a service. It's the only major consumer oriented online email that doesn't feature advertising because of the annual fee. They have to charge for it if they want to keep it ad free and provide online storage space.
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False comparisons do not a valid argument make.
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post #233 of 735
7/22/08 at 7:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by wobegon View Post

Noticed a few predictions that really don't make sense if you look at what Apple has done.

Blu-ray support - Er...what was so radically different about the MacBook Air? Right, it completely lacked a disc drive. Their most successful products - iPods and now the iPhone - don't use disc drives. And last year everyone probably remembers how they didn't really overhaul iDVD. Apple is moving away from disc based media, not towards it. They also pretty much prohibit any form of DRM other than their own humane FairPlay, which is mainly there because of the music labels and movie studios, not because they wanted it.

Touch-screen Macs - I can see the thought process, but Apple has already put Multi-Touch into two of their three laptops in the last few months: the MacBook Air and the MacBook Pro. Why would they then slap a Multi-Touch display on any of their computers? Side note: Apple likely won't add Multi-Touch to their Cinema Displays, nor the iMac. Why? Because Apple is looking to the future, which is mobile WiFi devices like the iPhone, iPod touch, and MacBook Air, not desktops. Not saying they're going to kill the iMac or Mac Pro anytime soon, but they sell many more laptops and they promote mobile platforms.

Licensing Mac OS X to third parties - Never happening. Apple's a hardware company. They use software to add value to their products and differentiate them from the competition. The reason Mac OS X is so much more stable than Windows and even Linux is because it is run off hardware built for it, and vice versa. Apple could never hope to support the umpteen PC configurations out there. Don't forget, Windows is successful because of anti-competitive, anti-consumer exclusive OEM deals with third part hardware vendors that stifle competition from alternatives like Linux and Microsoft promotes closed, proprietary formats like WMA and WMV that tie the user to their platform. If Apple tried to sell Mac OS X on its own for profit, they'd be going up against a monopoly that even the free Linux distros are having a hell of a time breaking into.

Don't forget, Apple is outpacing the PC industry 3 to 1. They have no reason to move into the stagnating market they're competing and winning against. Remember, all software they do make Windows compatible is...FREE. iTunes and Safari. MobileMe is selling software as a service. It's the only major consumer oriented online email that doesn't feature advertising because of the annual fee. They have to charge for it if they want to keep it ad free and $100 is a damn good price for everything else it offers now.

What he said.

Though I do think that apple should offer Blue Ray on it's PRO computers. I understand that they are moving away from optical media for the consumer. But video professionals still need to deliver on DVDs in most cases and Blue ray just happens to be the latest incarnation of this.
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post #234 of 735
7/22/08 at 7:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Agreed. Guys, there's no way Apple is going to be selling OS X for PC anytime this year. Srsly.

I agree. It seems to me that all of the suggestions in the thread are pretty mundane. If Apple thinks it's going to dent their enormous profits that much then whatever it is is costing a lot either in spending or lost revenue. I seriously doubt the latter so I think it is a big spend. Remember the FCC are selling off the TV spectrum once TV Digital goes 100%. Maybe this is related somehow? But then this is too soon for that ... mmmm... In which case I go for an Apple transporter than can beam you home from work ...
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #235 of 735
7/22/08 at 7:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

Did Oppenheimer actually say "shut out rivals" or is that interpretation by those reporting on the call?
.

His words are something like Apple doesn't want to leave a margin so high that it creates an "umbrella" for competitors to rest under in terms of price.

So, this is NOT A MAC. No matter how Apple prices Mac, the above statement doesn't apply. Look elsewhere.
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post #236 of 735
7/22/08 at 7:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnqh View Post

His words are something like Apple doesn't want to leave a margin so high that it creates an "umbrella" for competitors to rest under in terms of price.

So, this is NOT A MAC. No matter how Apple prices Mac, the above statement doesn't apply. Look elsewhere.

Unless it is a massive drop in some new Mac platform to undercut home PCs totally? I doubt it though ... but a $499 iMac would rather mess with Dell's head.
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #237 of 735
7/22/08 at 7:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by macarena View Post

What you want to watch - when you want to watch it.

Get AppleTV (with no hard disk).

Select iTunes TV Plan - where you decide what channels you want to pay for on a monthly basis, and what channels you want to watch PPV...

Good luck negotiating that one with the networks!
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post #238 of 735
7/22/08 at 7:33am
The TRANSITION word is the interesting one.

We are talking something big that will eat profits in order to get the company to a better place.
So in the past there was OS9 -> OS X and recently we had Power -> Intel.

It's not going to be Intel -> PA Semi
It's not going to be OS X - > OS XI

So what is it?
It could be Mouse -> Touch. But are their productivity gains in pointing at a monitor?
It could be HDD -> SDD but I am not sure customers can actually feel the benefit yet.
It could be "OS X exclusive" -> "OS X licensed". The time really is right for this one.

The only other one I can think of is..
Notebook -> Netbook

By this I mean completely reposition the Macbook as a lower-cost device. Going up against stuff like the MSI Wind. The Netbook thing is really picking-up speed. Apple already has a netbook, But the Air is 4 times the price of the competition.

C.
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post #239 of 735
7/22/08 at 7:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by paprochy View Post

What he said.

Though I do think that apple should offer Blue Ray on it's PRO computers. I understand that they are moving away from optical media for the consumer. But video professionals still need to deliver on DVDs in most cases and Blue ray just happens to be the latest incarnation of this.

Ha, thanks.

And I see your point. Blu-ray is certainly more modern and Apple supported the format by being a member of its consortium, but that was mainly in opposition of Microsoft's backing of HD-DVD, which featured more DRM developed by MS that...wait for it...tied the user to Windows.

Aren't there already Blu-ray drives sold by third parties that come with BD writing software for Macs?

Apple's still consumer oriented. Considering how few DVDs most people burn on their computers, let alone watch on them and add to that Apple's own efforts to get the major movie studios on board with iTunes, I don't see them offering BD support. Then the studios would say "well, we'll just release on BD then, where we can make much more money with a format that features more draconian DRM." At the same time, Apple's in a strange predicament with its high standing in media and entertainment production.
False comparisons do not a valid argument make.
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False comparisons do not a valid argument make.
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post #240 of 735
7/22/08 at 7:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmc6000 View Post

I think Apple may be on a slippery slope here. Saying your going to kill the competition by making sure they can't under cut your prices is a little monopolistic isn't it? I mean they don't have enough PC share to garner any law suits but if they bring out something that completely kills the competition in the mp3 market I can easily see SanDisk, Archos, and even MS jumping on board saying Apple is involved in un-competitive practices and they are trying to create a monopoly. I just think they need to watch their words a little closer as they become bigger and bigger and have more and more control over stuff like the digital music market...

Monopolistic? Perhaps? Illegal? Not at all! As has been discussed time and time again, monopolies are not inherently illegal. Simply crushing your competition by offering a good product at a low price is in no way illegal. What would be illegal is if Apple were to tell their flash memory suppliers that they will refuse to buy their chips unless they stop selling chips to Apple's competitors. This would be parallel to MS telling PC makers they couldn't sell PCs unless they included Windows installed, which is one of the things MS got in trouble for doing. Of course, at the time MS's monopoly was around 90%+ of the computer market whereas the iPod is only about 70% of the audio player market. (Note: If the chip suppliers choose to fulfill Apple's orders ahead of other customers in order to keep their biggest client happy,which has happend in the past, this is again not necessarily indicative of an illegal monopoly. You'd have to have evidence that Apple coerced them to take the action.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Simple: The merger of the MacMini and the Apple Tv. In other words an Apple TV with a disk drive. It will now run OSX as an option: surf the web, shop Amazon, eBay , etc. Choose either Tv or Mac like Parallels.
Bye, Bye to both - Hello to Mac TV!!!

This is an interesting possibility. But it wouldn't even need all the web surfing, etc, for me to consider it. Over the past several months there have been several new set-top, online movie rental boxes released (one in partnership with Amazon movie service and one with Netflix). These are both direct threats to the iTunes ecosystem. A more powerful AppleTV at a rock bottom price could pull the rug out from under these upstarts.

Rather than being a full-blown Mac, it could be modelled after the iPhone where you don't have a Finder, per se, but you have a few key apps on the home screen (and later they could add an AppleTV app store?). It's got to play my current movie collection (just like the iPod can play my current CD connection). I don't care how they do it. Add an optical drive, let it play video_ts folders, provide a way to legally rip my DVDs, or implement something like the MacBook Air's remote DVD drive feature. If it can't do that it's a non-starter for me. I'll just stick with my mini, thank you.
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