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Microsoft sets sights on providing an Apple-like experience - Page 2

post #41 of 119
Microsoft should stop focusing on capturing and dominating markets and actually invent something that will advance womankind. It all about "selling" to them. As such they are following the path of General Motors and their high profit impractical SUVs. People eventually wise-up with California leading the way. ("focusing on capturing and dominating markets"-is Bush in-charge?)
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post #42 of 119
i want to ask a fair question, how much Microsoft invested (investing) in Apple? any idea?

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Nov '09 | iMac 21.5" C2D 3.06 Ghz | Intel 330 240GB SSD | ATI

Sep '12| Toshiba 14" 1366 x 768! | i5 3rd Gen 6GB| Intel x25-m 120GB SSD | Win 7|  Viewsonic VX2255wmb 22" LCD
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post #43 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpatton View Post

From the Memo: "Looking ahead, I see an incredibly bright future for our company. As I said at the June 27th Town Hall for Bill, we are the best in the world at doing software..."

Right, that's why they're currently dropping millions on an ad campaign that can be summed up with the tagline, "Windows Vista: It sucks less now!"

~Philly
post #44 of 119
More than two years ago there was the following piece on Apple's end to end model leading to a much better user experience versus PCs running Windows:


Apple's End-To-End Model Leads to Innovation and User Experience


Funny to it took Redmond so long to realize this fact.
post #45 of 119
LOL...Microsoft had PocketPC out for years and decided to copy the iPod by developing the Zune...just as Apple was designing the iPhone!

Just...so...idiotic.

If Microsoft had any vision, they would have integrated Zune into their Windows Mobile platform. Instead, they felt they had to copy the iPod instead of improving their PDA-phone experience.

Now they've got to go and create yet another platform that will likely combine Windows mobile and Zune, and it will of course break all the legacy windows mobile software, which will sink even more R&D dollars away from developers as they all revise their software. And this is supposed to be providing choice? I'll go for user experience any day.

Best of all, they are now behind Apple, and I think it's already too late. They could have beat Apple out of this market, but instead went BACKWARDS with the Zune idea.

I can't believe I sank 15 years of my life on Windows and Windows Mobile platforms.
post #46 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by satchmo View Post

The video is here...best part is where he says, paraphrasing... 'they have their strategy, we have ours...we like ours'

Hmmm.....sounds more and more like he like Apple's strategy now.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=C5oGaZIKYvo

Very good that.

Reporter to CEO of Lada Motor cars: "So what did you think when you saw the new BMW 3-Series"?

Lada CEO: "Whahoooaaa i thought £30,000 for a motor car, a fully subsidised motor car with a warranty. Hey that's got to be the most expensive car on the planet. Look, they have their car but we got ours. We got an engine, a steering wheel, 4 wheels and some seats you know and we sold millions and millions of these during the cold war and they ain't sold any yet."

Priceless

PS: Along with their PC's can anybody tell me when Microshit started making phones?? Must be that Vaporware that they keep going on about. What a Tosser!!
A reputation is not built upon the restful domain of one's comfort zone; it is made out of stalwart exposition of your core beliefs, for all challenges to disprove them as irrelevant hubris.- Berp...
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A reputation is not built upon the restful domain of one's comfort zone; it is made out of stalwart exposition of your core beliefs, for all challenges to disprove them as irrelevant hubris.- Berp...
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post #47 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

"Because they are good at providing an experience that is narrow but complete, while our commitment to choice often comes with some compromises to the end-to-end experience."

This is a pretty interesting statement. I think Ballmer almost gets it.
1) From a user perspective, I don't think the Mac is at all narrow; it is consistent.
2) The choice that Windows provides, in terms of hardware, is valuable. What other choice, provided by MS, does the user get?

Now, from a developer perspective, his comments make more sense.
3) If you want to develop for a Mac, you use Cocoa and Objective-C. Very complete, but that's just about it.
4) On a PC, you have C++, C# .NET, VB .NET, VBA, etc. See - CHOICES!!!

"In Windows, the choice makes YOU!" It seems to me, the selection of development language depends on your project. I started using VBA with Excel and Access. Then I made the transition to VB .NET, and now I'm working with C# .NET. I'd hardly say I mastered any of them, after several years.

5) Furthermore, there are often several APIs that you can use to accomplish the same task. See - CHOICES!!!

I've had a hell of a time figuring out how to work with databases. There are several different APIs that can be used, and they can't be mixed. ADO and DAO, I think. I've never been able to keep them straight. Which should I use, and why? Searching for help usually gets me an example that looks perfect, but after several hours I discover it's the wrong kind. More like DOA to me...

While this choice is perceived as value, it is so messy and confusing that it's detrimental to the novice and mid-level programmer.

Considering "Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers!", this is clearly where his mind is at, and this is a good thing to focus future Windows development.

But what about the users?
post #48 of 119
Errrrr... I'll say good for Microsoft. Apple and os x isn't for everybody, but the experience you get from an Apple product is.

But this will never happen. There are to many Windows users that consider their computer to be no more than another appliance. And there are just to many cooks in the soup to make this feasible. There's no way in hell, HP, Dell, Sony, Toshiba, etc etc etc, are going to come together and move as one efficient machine, and provide a unified user experience.

Microsoft needs to focus their energy on making Windows an innovative driving force to be reckoned with. I hope they can do this, because OS X gets better every time they do.
post #49 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

30-to-1? What fantasy world does he live in where Apple has 3 percent market share and Windows 97%?

You have to remember he's referring to sales, not marketshare. If PCs are replaced two or three times as often as Macs are, then there actually are 30x as many PCs being sold.
post #50 of 119
Ballmer is the biggest PUTZ in the business world. They may be bigger than Apple... but their products still SUCK...

I'd love to hear him say, "We've finally decided that we will start making products that don't SUCK"....

What a lard-ass, buffoon!!!



Ve Vill all ZUNE be Zquirting our iphones, ipods, & macs in zee trash for Zee new nanoflacids of Ze Ballmer....

Ballmer is Zo Zo Zune, yes?
post #51 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimUSCA View Post

You have to remember he's referring to sales, not marketshare. If PCs are replaced two or three times as often as Macs are, then there actually are 30x as many PCs being sold.

I may be wrong here, and I know Apple has a long way to go .... but Doesn't Apple have quite a bit more than a 3% market share..... I thought we were up to 6 or so now.... with laptops being far beyond that.....

just my 2 cents since the dude who originally wrote the message you quoted deleted his message.....

Laterz
Z
post #52 of 119
Balmer: "You can get a Motorola Qphone for $99 dollars"

Whohahahaha!! You can get an iPhone 3G for £99 pounds now and i got one!!! Whohahahhahahaha!!!
A reputation is not built upon the restful domain of one's comfort zone; it is made out of stalwart exposition of your core beliefs, for all challenges to disprove them as irrelevant hubris.- Berp...
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A reputation is not built upon the restful domain of one's comfort zone; it is made out of stalwart exposition of your core beliefs, for all challenges to disprove them as irrelevant hubris.- Berp...
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post #53 of 119
Step 1. Buy YHOO
Step 2. Buy a Mac
Step 3. THERE IS NO STEP 3!!!
post #54 of 119
poop!
post #55 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyMJS
...is the one they should copy the most: Admit their OS isn't cutting it anymore, build a new one from scratch, and add legacy support for the old OS into the new one for a few years until application developers make the transition from old-and-busted Windows to new-hotness Windows.
Quote:
Posted by Amerist
I couldn't agree more. When that happens, they might get me to start using Windows again. Until then, I'm an Apple fanboy and I'm not ashamed to prove it.

Amerist, I second the motion. I'd like to see a 'new and improved' Windows, too. Maybe then, Apple would listen more closely to what it's users are asking, no, pleading for. Now, Apple is too arrogant, knowing it's so much better than the competition.
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post #56 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by sequitur View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyMJS
...is the one they should copy the most: Admit their OS isn't cutting it anymore, build a new one from scratch, and add legacy support for the old OS into the new one for a few years until application developers make the transition from old-and-busted Windows to new-hotness Windows.
Quote:
Posted by Amerist
I couldn't agree more. When that happens, they might get me to start using Windows again. Until then, I'm an Apple fanboy and I'm not ashamed to prove it.

Amerist, I second the motion. I'd like to see a 'new and improved' Windows, too. Maybe then, Apple would listen more closely to what it's users are asking, no, pleading for. Now, Apple is too arrogant, knowing it's so much better than the competition.

In the meantime will corporate America be stuck in a Windows XP malaise?
post #57 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Going forward, Ballmer said Microsoft will be changing the way it works with hardware vendors to mimic the experience offered by the Mac maker in which there will be "absolutely no compromises." His plan calls for a similar approach in the mobile phone arena, where he hopes the company can create "great end-to-end experiences" akin to that afforded by Apple's closed ecosystem, where it maintains tight control of nearly every aspect of a product's design.

Does "work with hardware vendors" mean "dictate to hardware vendors"?
How else will MSFT get "tight control of nearly every aspect of a product's design"?
I wonder if hardware manufacturers will be willing to give up control of design
while retaining all the risk of the product failing.
post #58 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by sequitur View Post

Quote:

Maybe then, Apple would listen more closely to what it's users are asking, no, pleading for. Now, Apple is too arrogant, knowing it's so much better than the competition.

You mean what SOME users are whining about! Poor baby, is Apple ignoring you little cries? \
post #59 of 119
yes, about those lingering doubts......

I generally do not pass up an opportunity to dis Microsoft and or Ballmer, but this time I will just state the obvious and move on:

The problem is, Microsoft is identified not only by it's marginal software products, but by the 2nd rate clowns who put it in computers, such as Dell, Gateway (RIP), Lenovo, and whoever.

Here is a true story: I bought a new Dell Inspirion (what idot thinks up these names?) so I could run MS Streets and Trips, complete with Microsoft gps device.

It took 3 tries to install the software. Finally, it refused to recognize the gps device, even tho it was made by the company who made the software. That's when I knew this company was totally worthless.

Dell is on a shelf in the garage, Streets and Trips is in a landfill, and never will I buy anything from any of these incompetent dimwits ever again.
post #60 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by AHeneen View Post

What are they talking about, the R&D for this device has already been completed...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRLRjKCGHek

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRKIDdIaFyE&NR=1
post #61 of 119
So Steve Balmer repeatable laughs at Apple, and then admits that MS need to be more like Apple.
Doesn't that prove that Apple are better.
post #62 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakota View Post

I can see it now! The MEphone. Building on the success of Windows ME!

Don't you mean the METOOphone?
post #63 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelnyc View Post

poop!

Yes... thank you for contributing with such eloquence and insight.

I say let the games begin. MS has finally woken up, they've been sleeping on their laurels for too long and now Apple might finally have some actual competition again. If MS wants to join the battle and actually start trying, then Apple will have to keep innovation rolling to keep focus on them. But they already know this, Apple have dug themselves out of the pit of despair that was the mid-90's and have been steaming along rapidly since.

Jimzip
"There's no time like the present, and the only present you'll never get, is time." - Me
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post #64 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

In the meantime will corporate America be stuck in a Windows XP malaise?

They already are. Vista is a dud, and IMHO unfixable. They need to throw the OS out and start from scratch. They may be able to build from some existing core, much like Apple did.

Ballmer's fixation on an "end-to-end experience" is flawed. It may be good for getting crossover buyers who get both iPods and Macs. BUT, if Apple had tried to build their end-to-end experience on OS 9, they'd have failed miserably.

An end-to-end experience won't fix Vista's flaws.
post #65 of 119
In the future Microsoft logo will change to a pear with a bite mark on the upper left of the logo.
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post #66 of 119
I feel that Apple has gotten quite cocky lately and has become too ambitious in providing things that are actually "like Microsoft but better". Mobile Me has yet to surprise anyone with quality. Every new update that comes out for Leopard seems to create more problems than fix. The new iPhone's launch was plagued with problems. There are incompatibility issues with some 3rd party plug ins (which is exactly the opposite of Microsoft actually, where I have specifically made products that crash and 3rd party products which work well). It seems that all Apple needs to do is have the blue screen of death instead of that spiny pinwheel of horrific catastrophe.

Apple has become lazy lately because of their booming sales. This is leading to poorer quality . I agree with others stating the claim that Microsoft should be successful to create more competitive business. I hope that the "zune phone" makes it and creates a shift towards progressive technology instead of regressive. When Apple sees it, maybe they'll strive for an even bigger push than they usually have.
post #67 of 119
The most overpaid seat warmer in history is reacting the same way his boss did when a little company called Netscape took the wind out of his sails in '95. If you guys up in Redmond would stop sprinkling anti-cool dust on all your products before you ship them you wouldn't have to panic every 5 years. Come on guys.....Vista?.......Seriously!
post #68 of 119
The 30 to 1 ratio is worldwide. The US only ratio would be about 30 to 4, but changing fast (too fast for SB).

I would guess the OS referred to as Windows 7 is based on "Xenix" with the addition of only the stuff that really works right from "XP Pro", add a new browser (aka Safari) and label it as "Lisa OSX!
Send Vista off the Microsoft Museum.

The "Windows 7" should be "9" if they count "Xenix-Lisa" and "BOB".

PS: Still looking for SB IQ. Couldn't find it on net so could be nothng.

Nothing equation: NT=0-0=BD
post #69 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbmcavoy View Post

3) If you want to develop for a Mac, you use Cocoa and Objective-C. Very complete, but that's just about it.
4) On a PC, you have C++, C# .NET, VB .NET, VBA, etc. See - CHOICES!!!

Well, I'm Java developer on Mac OS X, so Cocoa and Objective-C are not the only choices. I guess there are much more less common languages like Python, Ruby etc. supported directly in the OS. Using Microsoft languages does not make much sense as Cocoa and core libraries are great for developing Mac-only applications.

Supporting these Microsoft-only languages makes no sense as:
1) Microsoft is very poor in designing APIs and languages
2) most of the languages and frameworks are by-design bound to Windows components
3) there is a lot of IP/patent/licensing stuff around these

... I don't think it is Apple, who does not make choice. If you develop an application in the Microsoft crap, what OS can user use to run your app? Only Windows and with a lot of troubles Linux using Mono which is incredibly slow, unstable and incomplete.

If you want a Mac-only stuff tightly bound to features of OS X you choose ObjC+Cocoa, such choice is similar to Microsoft's stuff. If you want a cross-platform thing you have to choose different languages/frameworks (Java, Python, Ruby etc.) to avoid writing a lot of stuff multiple times.
post #70 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnaoncfixd View Post

I feel that Apple has gotten quite cocky lately and has become too ambitious in providing things that are actually "like Microsoft but better". Mobile Me has yet to surprise anyone with quality. Every new update that comes out for Leopard seems to create more problems than fix. The new iPhone's launch was plagued with problems. There are incompatibility issues with some 3rd party plug ins (which is exactly the opposite of Microsoft actually, where I have specifically made products that crash and 3rd party products which work well). It seems that all Apple needs to do is have the blue screen of death instead of that spiny pinwheel of horrific catastrophe.

Apple has become lazy lately because of their booming sales. This is leading to poorer quality . I agree with others stating the claim that Microsoft should be successful to create more competitive business. I hope that the "zune phone" makes it and creates a shift towards progressive technology instead of regressive. When Apple sees it, maybe they'll strive for an even bigger push than they usually have.

Sorry to do this but I have to jump in here and debate some inaccuracies and/or generalisations.
While I do agree with some of what you're saying, (Apple being cocky lately and the new iPhone having quite spectacular bugs), I'm extremely impressed with the quality of Mobile Me, it's worked flawlessly since the switch and I've been using it regularly - the features, speed and feel of the service have been stellar... As well, Leopard has been as solid for me as it's ever been, even after the last update.

Years ago I stated my fears that Apple gaining popularity would reduce the quality of their products and services, as the masses would begin occupying their time with whining and pressure to do more than before, & their success would bring lethargy. So far this has only come true in small ways - I'm hoping their continual growth doesn't lead to that scenario, but it's inevitable to some degree. They've been dealing with it pretty well so far in any case. New products will always have bugs, Apple brought out two at the same time... that's all I see.

(Edit: 300 posts!!! Woohoo!)

Jimzip
"There's no time like the present, and the only present you'll never get, is time." - Me
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post #71 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

And Apple's ad agency must already be busy whipping up a new Mac/PC tv ad with THIS gem as its theme...

The funny thing with that is....the ad adgency that is designing all the print and web based materials is more-than-likely... doing it all on Macs!
post #72 of 119
Does anybody on this post know anything about the Hammerhead GPS chip in THEPHONE?
Obviously GPS can transmit location data to and from handset and satellite, but can it potentially allow SiriusXM to compete with AT&T as service provider? Sorry to blow up this thread with the iphone. I'll get back on subject:

Ballmer's a moron!!!!!
post #73 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by thompr View Post

Balmer said:

<...more comprehensive effort to redefine the meaning and value of Windows for our customers.>

This quote says so much. First of all, it says that Microsoft feels that it is necessary to define the meaning and value of windows to the customer. Shouldn't the customer just naturally sense the value, if the product is any good? I know with most good products, the value is inherently obvious from the get-go. If the company has to TELL me why it is valuable even after I have tried it, then the product most likely stinks.

The second thing the quote says is that Microsoft has to REdefine the value. In other words, not only do they feel it necessary to define in the first place, but they failed at it once and need to try it again... presumably with a different - but somehow better - definition.

Balmer STILL doesn't get it!

Thompson

QFT.
Nobody had to make a comprehensive effort to redefine the meaning and value of the iPod, for instance. People just got it. And they've kept on getting it. Operating systems are more complex, but EVERYBODY (I'm sorry to say) has used Windows. Apple might need to do some defining on the OS front to educate people who've never used Mac OS X and therefore have misperceptions. But if you're using Windows, and Microsoft wants to change your perception of your experience... there's real problems with that.
post #74 of 119
That's funny... Apple was just trying to provide a Microsoft like experience with the launch of Mobile Me....
post #75 of 119
please refer to the link re facebook - this Picture of Steve B is fascinating. Makes me realize at once that the new Windoze experience will be incredible, and Steve J and his team are really going to have to step up....

http://www.dbtechno.com/images/Micro...cebook_ads.jpg
post #76 of 119
Congrad.. Your are the only one to figure out the equation in my post (#16):

It would seem the Value of Vista would be going down since SB's IQ is on the rise!

V=SqRoot of 1984/SBIQ=.6455378


A moron IQ starts at 69, so SBIQ of 69 = .6455378

In case SBIQ reaches 140 the value of Vista would be .3181579.

but the chance of that happening has about the same odds as Xenix or BOB replacing Linux.


PS: Today's CNET News has a article about 60% rejection of Vista and SB.
post #77 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post

Step 1. Buy YHOO
Step 2. Buy a Mac
Step 3. THERE IS NO STEP 3!!!

I think it's more like:

Step 1. Mimic Apple
Step 2. ...
Step 3. Profit!

Seriously, I think this is going to be another example of Microsoft getting to the game with too little, too late.
post #78 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by djpadz View Post

I think it's more like:

Step 1. Mimic Apple
Step 2. ...
Step 3. Profit!

Seriously, I think this is going to be another example of Microsoft getting to the game with too little, too late.

I think if Microsoft tries to use that plan, they will face a patent lawsuit
by the sock drawer gnomes.
post #79 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

In the meantime will corporate America be stuck in a Windows XP malaise?

I can see most people have never worked in a large enterprise environment.

It's often expensive and pointless to upgrade corporate PCs to a brand new OS, especially since said new OS could (most likely) cause compatibility issues. The last thing IT staff really care about, are new features, like transparency, Spaces, or Aero, or countless changes "under the hood", if its causes apps to break, untill they can be properly tested.

Many companies skipped Windows 2000, going from NT4 to XP. Usually, if it isn't broke, don't fix it, and then break it.

And yes, I also think Microsoft needs to pull an Apple, and restart with Windows. Start with something new, and virtualize the old stuff. I know some users bitch about backwards compatibility, but there comes a point where it drags everything down.
post #80 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cicero View Post

That's funny... Apple was just trying to provide a Microsoft like experience with the launch of Mobile Me....

you're killin' me
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