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Apple seeds iPhone 2.1 with directional GPS, push notification

post #1 of 57
Thread Starter 
Apple is already providing developers with a new iPhone firmware beta with enhanced location-finding that could lead to true navigation as well as the roots for background push services.

Those with hands-on access to the beta 2.1 code at Gear Live note that Core Location can now recognize the cardinal direction of an iPhone with GPS as well as its velocity, both of which are ingredients necessary to providing turn-by-turn directions.

The additions confirm statements recently by Apple's Greg Joswiak, who rejected earlier claims that iPhone 3G's GPS antenna wasn't powerful enough to handle navigation and in turn explained that "complicated issues" are holding the device back from serving as a true navigation unit.

Separately, AppleInsider has also confirmed that Apple is implementing a rough version of its background push notification service in the 2.1 firmware.

Announced at the Worldwide Developers Conference, the feature lets third-party native programs receive data such as alerts or new messages without actively running. The measure saves processing power without interrupting some apps that depend on constant access to the Internet.

The inclusion of this early version of the code alludes to the 2.1 update becoming public at the same time as the push notification service itself, which is tentatively due for September. In the meantime, Apple and its US partner AT&T are known to be testing iPhone 2.0.1, a maintenance release that likely fixes some of the outstanding bugs with the initial 2.0 release.

More information about 2.1 is expected to appear soon, though developers committed to shipping production apps are being warned to hold off testing the new release and its accompanying SDK as it will prevent them from submitting programs to the App Store.
post #2 of 57
Apple has the most brilliant marketing machine ever. They introduce features that have been around on Windows Mobile and Blackberry for years, and make it sound like a new invention. I'm not dissing them (I'm sorely tempted to buy a 3G), but c'mon. Push data? Very well played, SteveJ. Glad you're on this team. When MS tries this tactic, they fall flat.
post #3 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snegbert View Post

Apple has the most brilliant marketing machine ever. They introduce features that have been around on Windows Mobile and Blackberry for years, and make it sound like a new invention. I'm not dissing them (I'm sorely tempted to buy a 3G), but c'mon. Push data? Very well played, SteveJ. Glad you're on this team. When MS tries this tactic, they fall flat.

Does Microsoft already have a service similar to Apple's Push Notification Service? Why would they bust Microsoft's chops about a task manager on a mobile device if they already do it?
post #4 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmadlena View Post

Does Microsoft already have a service similar to Apple's Push Notification Service? Why would they bust Microsoft's chops about a task manager on a mobile device if they already do it?

How about -

British English dictionaries
MMS
Sending business cards
LESS LAG ON CONTACTS
Downloading music over 3G, not just wifi - or am I missing something here?
post #5 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by NanoAkron View Post

How about -

British English dictionaries
MMS
Sending business cards
LESS LAG ON CONTACTS
Downloading music over 3G, not just wifi - or am I missing something here?

I completely agree with the first 4, but I do have some insight on the last one. I read (somewhere) that Apple cannot sell downloads over 3G because it is not in their deal with the record companies. They are trying to add it to the terms, but, as usual, the record companies are dragging their feet. It will happen sometime, but when is anybodies guess.

Steve
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post #6 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPhone91 View Post

I completely agree with the first 4, but I do have some insight on the last one. I read (somewhere) that Apple cannot sell downloads over 3G because it is not in their deal with the record companies. They are trying to add it to the terms, but, as usual, the record companies are dragging their feet. It will happen sometime, but when is anybodies guess.

Steve

Even if it was in their deal with the record companies, I'm pretty sure the carrier (AT&T) has it disallowed.

You might think promoting heavy data use at expensive data rates would be in AT&T's interest. It's not. For one, it would slow down their network too much, and for another, they make far more margin selling ringtones that are smaller files for other models of phones.

If Apple is going to use AT&T's network for selling music to iPhone owners, they are going to want a cut-- not just the price of traffic. My guess is that either Apple or the rights holders don't agree, or else there simply isn't a way to give everybody a cut and still price the way Apple wants to.

Long story short: there's no way to keep iTunes pricing and give AT&T a cut without making it unprofitable, probably for the record companies, almost certainly for Apple.
post #7 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by NanoAkron View Post

How about -

British English dictionaries
MMS
Sending business cards
LESS LAG ON CONTACTS
Downloading music over 3G, not just wifi - or am I missing something here?

That does not address my question. I'm not talking about anything that you stated. I am asking about the Push Notification Service. This is the solution that Apple has created to get around the problem of apps needing a constant internet connection to update themselves.

MMS, sending business cards, lag on contacts have nothing to do with this. Please apply a little thought to your response.
post #8 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snegbert View Post

Apple has the most brilliant marketing machine ever. They introduce features that have been around on Windows Mobile and Blackberry for years, and make it sound like a new invention. I'm not dissing them (I'm sorely tempted to buy a 3G), but c'mon. Push data? Very well played, SteveJ. Glad you're on this team. When MS tries this tactic, they fall flat.

Umm, "push data" is not the same thing as a "Push Notification Service", which is in fact a new invention. Currently, applications have to poll their own open ports for incoming data and then act on it, which means those applications and ports have to remain open all the time. Except for a few core services, Apple doesn't allow applications to remain open (or run in the background), so they devised an alternative way for servers to notify clients of any changes. One possibly use of this service will be used for the so-called "push data" that those other platforms have had FOR YEARS, including email, contacts, calendars, etc. Another use for this type of service will be to allow an instant messaging service notify a client of a new message or allowing the ebay servers to update the iPhone ebay application, etc. This will all be possible without the need for a dozen background apps running or clients needing to remain open.

Can't wait for this service to make the jump to the Mac. No need to keep iChat or Mail open to receive updates.
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post #9 of 57
i hope 2.1 (aka 2.0.1???) will get the bluetooth stack that allows us iphone 2G owners to pair with our external bluetooth GPS!!!

apple, let me decide if i want to drain my battery and when i need my GPS! i hope apple listens and gives us the right to get GPS running with the "old" iphone 2G....

c'mon apple, this would be so easy for you guys!!!

since the 2.0 update was a bummer in that regard i hope apple really gives a damn....
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post #10 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by NanoAkron View Post

How about -

British English dictionaries
MMS
Sending business cards
LESS LAG ON CONTACTS
Downloading music over 3G, not just wifi - or am I missing something here?


#2 and #5 may not be within Apple's control. More than likely they are AT&T restrictions imposed because of the original "unlimited" iPhone data plans.

The others could easily be added (fixed) with a software update. Given the fact that the iPhone OS is only a year old, I'm amazed there's so little to complain about compared to the other platforms, especially usability. I mean, what the hell were they waiting for? Oh... yeah... right... someone else to come up with a better way to do it.
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post #11 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPhone91 View Post

I read (somewhere) that Apple cannot sell downloads over 3G because it is not in their deal with the record companies.

Yes it's very odd.

Imagine ordering a physical $100 product that required delivery - it's normal that standard (road) delivery might be $10 while air-courier costs $30... we expect that, and either way the store we bought from just gets the $100 (the other is cost of delivery).

But when it comes to delivery music over cable or 3G, they actually want to price the product higher. That's like saying "the product is $100 + $10 delivery - but if you want it airmail it'll be $150 + $30 delivery!". Very odd.

edit: Note - there are still 2 issues - the Telcos want to have their increased delivery charge, but ALSO the music companies want to make more based purely on HOW it is downloaded.
post #12 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by NanoAkron View Post

How about -

British English dictionaries
MMS
Sending business cards
LESS LAG ON CONTACTS
Downloading music over 3G, not just wifi - or am I missing something here?

Downloading music over 3G is a carrier decision. It has nothing to do with Apple or the iPhone. Carriers believe music downloaded over their spectrum should cost more than other music. i.e. they deserve a specific special cut for that kind of data as opposed to ordinary e-mail attachments.
post #13 of 57
A little off topic...
I'm in Australia, so locating myself using SkyHookWireless Wifi access points doesn't work very well.

SkyHookWireless sent cars through major US cities recording GPS locations against Wifi access points - so the old iPhone or your laptop could work out where it was. It also works with the new iPhone when you can't see the sky clearly - when I'm in my office the iPhone locates the general suburb (using cell towers), and then brings me in much closer based on our wifi point that I manually added to SkyHookWireless.

SkyHook is smart enough that when your phone sends up the 5 wifi points it sees, if it recognises just one of those points it'll give you your location AND update its records to say the other 5 wifi points are nearby.

So when I get my GPS location, I'd like to have my phone note the GPS location and any wifi access points, so that when I'm back on wifi it can send up a list of locations for Sky Hook.

A bit nerdy I know... (I mean it's a nice way of automatically updating my home wifi info so the phone applications know I'm at home even though they can't see satellite ... but I'd probably leave my GPS on during a drive, just to help SkyHook improve their database)
post #14 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregAlexander View Post

A little off topic...
I'm in Australia, so locating myself using SkyHookWireless Wifi access points doesn't work very well.

SkyHookWireless sent cars through major US cities recording GPS locations against Wifi access points - so the old iPhone or your laptop could work out where it was. It also works with the new iPhone when you can't see the sky clearly - when I'm in my office the iPhone locates the general suburb (using cell towers), and then brings me in much closer based on our wifi point that I manually added to SkyHookWireless.

SkyHook is smart enough that when your phone sends up the 5 wifi points it sees, if it recognises just one of those points it'll give you your location AND update its records to say the other 5 wifi points are nearby.

So when I get my GPS location, I'd like to have my phone note the GPS location and any wifi access points, so that when I'm back on wifi it can send up a list of locations for Sky Hook.

A bit nerdy I know... (I mean it's a nice way of automatically updating my home wifi info so the phone applications know I'm at home even though they can't see satellite ... but I'd probably leave my GPS on during a drive, just to help SkyHook improve their database)


Adding your wifi point manually sounds useful. I live in a small town and Skyhook has no coverage here. How'd you do it?
post #15 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macchappy View Post

Adding your wifi point manually sounds useful. I live in a small town and Skyhook has no coverage here. How'd you do it?

http://www.skyhookwireless.com/howitworks/submit_ap.php

You enter your address on this page, then refine the location of your access point on the google map. Enter in your access point's MAC address... and submit.

An easier and slightly less specific way (though it probably doesn't matter) is to load the Loki toolbar in Windows (www.loki.com). Then just click "Locate Me". When it fails, you tell it your address and that is sent to SkyHookWireless.
post #16 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snegbert View Post

Apple has the most brilliant marketing machine ever. They introduce features that have been around on Windows Mobile and Blackberry for years, and make it sound like a new invention. I'm not dissing them (I'm sorely tempted to buy a 3G), but c'mon. Push data? Very well played, SteveJ. Glad you're on this team. When MS tries this tactic, they fall flat.

"...make it sound like..." Would you like to quote something? They didn't invent the phone, GPS, WiFi, apps, email, SMS, etc... what they're touting in a new, easy, friendly, intuitive way of using these. If you're hearing something else, let us know.
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post #17 of 57
The main complaint I have heard about iPhone 3G is poor reception. Other brands of phone side-by-side get great reception.

Maybe there is 1 production line where they not connect antenna to motherboard?
post #18 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokeonit View Post

i hope 2.1 (aka 2.0.1???) will get the bluetooth stack that allows us iphone 2G owners to pair with our external bluetooth GPS!!!

apple, let me decide if i want to drain my battery and when i need my GPS! i hope apple listens and gives us the right to get GPS running with the "old" iphone 2G....

c'mon apple, this would be so easy for you guys!!!

since the 2.0 update was a bummer in that regard i hope apple really gives a damn....

Uh...how shall GPS get up and running accurately on a 2g iPhone if it doesn't have a GPS module!?!?
post #19 of 57
read the whole fricking posts. he talked about adding a bluetooth gps. you even quoted the relevant part.
post #20 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmadlena View Post

That does not address my question. I'm not talking about anything that you stated. I am asking about the Push Notification Service. This is the solution that Apple has created to get around the problem of apps needing a constant internet connection to update themselves.

MMS, sending business cards, lag on contacts have nothing to do with this. Please apply a little thought to your response.

How about-

British English Dictionaries
MMS
Sending business cards
Less lag on contacts?
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post #21 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by fryke View Post

read the whole fricking posts. he talked about adding a bluetooth gps. you even quoted the relevant part.

Missed the part about about the bluetooth GPS. Was skimming thru the post too quickly. No need to be a dick about it.
post #22 of 57
I love my 3G but let's face it there are more than a few bugs. So let's all hope that Apple finds itsQC roots with the coming releases!

Dave
post #23 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Core Location can now recognize the cardinal direction of an iPhone with GPS as well as its velocity

actually, you mean "as well as its speed". Speed is a scalar; velocity is a vector, having magnitude (equal to speed) and direction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeDRC View Post

British English Dictionaries

We don't get that in OS X proper , so don't expect to see it on an iPhone
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post #24 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post

Umm, "push data" is not the same thing as a "Push Notification Service", which is in fact a new invention.

No it isn't. This is my point. On the Blackberry, for instance, an application can register for certain kinds of data, and in fact can use a BES component to do preliminary filtering or polling of data (though this is optional). The app then sits dormant and only runs when that particular piece of data comes in, possibly running for < 0.01 second every few weeks. That's one of the many ways Blackberries get such amazing battery life.
post #25 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Narcogen View Post

Even if it was in their deal with the record companies, I'm pretty sure the carrier (AT&T) has it disallowed.

You might think promoting heavy data use at expensive data rates would be in AT&T's interest. It's not. For one, it would slow down their network too much, and for another, they make far more margin selling ringtones that are smaller files for other models of phones.

If Apple is going to use AT&T's network for selling music to iPhone owners, they are going to want a cut-- not just the price of traffic. My guess is that either Apple or the rights holders don't agree, or else there simply isn't a way to give everybody a cut and still price the way Apple wants to.

Long story short: there's no way to keep iTunes pricing and give AT&T a cut without making it unprofitable, probably for the record companies, almost certainly for Apple.

You don't know what AT&T and Apple have agreements for. You don't know if AT&T has anything to do with music over 3G for the iPhone.

This is a feeling on your part. Please don't try to make it seem as though it is fact.
post #26 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokeonit View Post

i hope 2.1 (aka 2.0.1???) will get the bluetooth stack that allows us iphone 2G owners to pair with our external bluetooth GPS!!!

apple, let me decide if i want to drain my battery and when i need my GPS! i hope apple listens and gives us the right to get GPS running with the "old" iphone 2G....

c'mon apple, this would be so easy for you guys!!!

since the 2.0 update was a bummer in that regard i hope apple really gives a damn....

It was made clear that 2.0.1 is not 2.1. Why the confusion?
post #27 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tantrum View Post

Downloading music over 3G is a carrier decision. It has nothing to do with Apple or the iPhone. Carriers believe music downloaded over their spectrum should cost more than other music. i.e. they deserve a specific special cut for that kind of data as opposed to ordinary e-mail attachments.

And you know this to be the case here, because...?
post #28 of 57
The "British English" dictionary is a big one for me since I use English all the time.
(Note to the Yanks, it's actually called "English" and "USA English" is the "weird sub-tongue")

It's especially galling because Apple *still* doesn't have this right even in the main OS-X system. It has built-in capability for many languages, but the spelling dictionary simply can't be made to work with British English across all the applications in the system.

This is primarily because Apple does the same thing with English that Microsoft does.

They don't treat it like a separate language, they treat it as a small series of variant spellings in the main "US English" dictionary. This means the default of the system and of the applications is always "US English" even when you pick "British English" with a sub-routine of sorts applied so as to remember the alternate spellings. Needless to say this formula doesn't work very well at all. Many applications can't pick up the difference.

On top of that, you have to manually set the spelling dictionary on an application by application basis if you want to use British English spelling in it, and some apps don't even have an area to set that. This might be different if you set your entire system to "United Kingdom" by location, but it might have occurred to an Apple engineer that not all British English users live in the UK.

They also confuse the issue by providing these "regional" formats. Once you pick your country or region, you get the formats of that country and only those formats. This makes it exceedingly difficult to be an English speaking ("British English"), person in say, Canada. It also forces one to use metric for all system measurements if you pick a country where metric is the rule. why can't I pick my formats, as formats? Why force me into a series of formats based on location with no option to change them?

Been like this since OS 7.2 as far as I recall.
"USA-ians" in general are ignorant of the rest of the world IMO and have a special blind spot when it comes to the English language which they think of as "theirs." It's that sub-concious attitude that US English is actually the "real" English that's at the root of it.

In mathematical terms, you can't make a super-set into a subset of one of it's own sub-sets without expecting some serious complications.
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post #29 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snegbert View Post

No it isn't. This is my point. On the Blackberry, for instance, an application can register for certain kinds of data, and in fact can use a BES component to do preliminary filtering or polling of data (though this is optional). The app then sits dormant and only runs when that particular piece of data comes in, possibly running for < 0.01 second every few weeks. That's one of the many ways Blackberries get such amazing battery life.

It's not the same thing. BES acts as a bridge (NOC - network operations center) for the DATA to get from servers to clients. The client still needs to be open even if in a "dormant" state. Still taking up CPU, regardless how miniscule, and still taking up memory.

Apple's Push Notification Service sends notifications and only steps in after the client has completely shutdown. Then a connection is made between the service X server and Apple's Push Notification server. When that service needs to contact the client, it can tell the PNS to notify the iPhone/iPod touch user that service X needs your attention. Then it is up to the user to relaunch that client or dismiss the notification.


And for the other claim... what's Windows Mobile method for all of this?
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post #30 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

The "British English" dictionary is a big one for me since I use English all the time.
(Note to the Yanks, it's actually called "English" and "USA English" is the "weird sub-tongue")

It's especially galling because Apple *still* doesn't have this right even in the main OS-X system. It has built-in capability for many languages, but the spelling dictionary simply can't be made to work with British English across all the applications in the system.

This is primarily because Apple does the same thing with English that Microsoft does.

They don't treat it like a separate language, they treat it as a small series of variant spellings in the main "US English" dictionary. This means the default of the system and of the applications is always "US English" even when you pick "British English" with a sub-routine of sorts applied so as to remember the alternate spellings. Needless to say this formula doesn't work very well at all. Many applications can't pick up the difference.

On top of that, you have to manually set the spelling dictionary on an application by application basis if you want to use British English spelling in it, and some apps don't even have an area to set that. This might be different if you set your entire system to "United Kingdom" by location, but it might have occurred to an Apple engineer that not all British English users live in the UK.

They also confuse the issue by providing these "regional" formats. Once you pick your country or region, you get the formats of that country and only those formats. This makes it exceedingly difficult to be an English speaking ("British English"), person in say, Canada. It also forces one to use metric for all system measurements if you pick a country where metric is the rule. why can't I pick my formats, as formats? Why force me into a series of formats based on location with no option to change them?

Been like this since OS 7.2 as far as I recall.
"USA-ians" in general are ignorant of the rest of the world IMO and have a special blind spot when it comes to the English language which they think of as "theirs." It's that sub-concious attitude that US English is actually the "real" English that's at the root of it.

In mathematical terms, you can't make a super-set into a subset of one of it's own sub-sets without expecting some serious complications.

In addition to American English being spoken as a native language by far more people than those speaking "English" English in The British Isles (Irish and Scottish "English, for example, is rather different, or so my Irish and Scottish friends tell me), and the former colonies, it's almost always American English thats tought everywhere else.

Not that it really matters. Our differences are minor, and our affection for our own version is nothing more than matter of being born where e are.
post #31 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmadlena View Post

That does not address my question. I'm not talking about anything that you stated. I am asking about the Push Notification Service. This is the solution that Apple has created to get around the problem of apps needing a constant internet connection to update themselves.

MMS, sending business cards, lag on contacts have nothing to do with this. Please apply a little thought to your response.

No need to be snarky...

I accidentally quoted you instead of just replying to the thread. I wasn't even trying to address your issue. If this has confused things, I apologise.
post #32 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

(Note to the Yanks, it's actually called "English" and "USA English" is the "weird sub-tongue")

That is only in areas where British English is the norm. In the US we refer to it as English and British or UK English. It makes no sense to qualify the dialect of English we speak within our own country. I'm pretty sure the Aussies do the same thing, but you never know with them. The dictionaries I have list British English and US English in the text, which includes OS X's Dictionary.app

Quote:
They don't treat it like a separate language, they treat it as a small series of variant spellings in the main "US English" dictionary. This means the default of the system and of the applications is always "US English" even when you pick "British English" with a sub-routine of sorts applied so as to remember the alternate spellings. Needless to say this formula doesn't work very well at all. Many applications can't pick up the difference.

There has to be a default language for the system to fall back on since one copy of OS X covers all languages, and US English makes the most since for many reasons. But I do think there needs to be a new system in place. Maybe creating CoreLanguages so that all there is a more universal system for apps to use the more appropriate term. If you think it's bad for British English, it has to be rally awful for non-English languages.

Quote:
They also confuse the issue by providing these "regional" formats. Once you pick your country or region, you get the formats of that country and only those formats. This makes it exceedingly difficult to be an English speaking ("British English"), person in say, Canada. It also forces one to use metric for all system measurements if you pick a country where metric is the rule. why can't I pick my formats, as formats? Why force me into a series of formats based on location with no option to change them?

You can change those in System Preferences » International » Formats tab.

Quote:
"USA-ians" in general are ignorant of the rest of the world IMO and have a special blind spot when it comes to the English language which they think of as "theirs." It's that sub-concious attitude that US English is actually the "real" English that's at the root of it.

Talk about ignorance. You aren't even aware of the options in your own operating system, you generalized over 300 million people as being ignorant and expressed that native speakers of a dialect of english is not "theirs" or that it's "real" English. Where does one begin with such a statement? Do I state with the evolution of language as a whole, or that the original English speakers would not understand you today with your perfect British English dialect, or that most English speakers in the world know more US English than British English or do I point the absurdity that you think the dialect you speak today has somehow been preserved because of some bullshit belief in a staunch British tongue.
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post #33 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post

#2 and #5 may not be within Apple's control. More than likely they are AT&T restrictions imposed because of the original "unlimited" iPhone data plans.

The others could easily be added (fixed) with a software update. Given the fact that the iPhone OS is only a year old, I'm amazed there's so little to complain about compared to the other platforms, especially usability. I mean, what the hell were they waiting for? Oh... yeah... right... someone else to come up with a better way to do it.

We here in the UK, and in the other 68 countries that the iPhone is soon to be sold in, don't particularly give a damn about AT&T's diktats to Apple.

This is one of Apple's big problems - they're still thinking and acting like a US-only company.
post #34 of 57
[QUOTE=Virgil-TB2;1284277]The "British English" dictionary is a big one for me since I use English all the time.
(Note to the Yanks, it's actually called "English" and "USA English" is the "weird sub-tongue")
[\\quote]
Not to muddy the waters here but it is british English that has evolved in a less than stellar manner. If anything the US has helped to preserve English in it's historical form.
[quote]

It's especially galling because Apple *still* doesn't have this right even in the main OS-X system. It has built-in capability for many languages, but the spelling dictionary simply can't be made to work with British English across all the applications in the system
[\\quote]
If you where Apple would you want to support what many see as an abomination?

The british could go a long way to redeeming themselves if the could just get the use of "is" and "are" right.

[quote]
This is primarily because Apple does the same thing with English that Microsoft does.

They don't treat it like a separate language, they treat it as a small series of variant spellings in the main "US English" dictionary. This means the default of the system and of the applications is always "US English" even when you pick "British English" with a sub-routine of sorts applied so as to remember the alternate spellings. Needless to say this formula doesn't work very well at all. Many applications can't pick up the difference.

On top of that, you have to manually set the spelling dictionary on an application by application basis if you want to use British English spelling in it, and some apps don't even have an area to set that. This might be different if you set your entire system to "United Kingdom" by location, but it might have occurred to an Apple engineer that not all British English users live in the UK.

They also confuse the issue by providing these "regional" formats. Once you pick your country or region, you get the formats of that country and only those formats. This makes it exceedingly difficult to be an English speaking ("British English"), person in say, Canada. It also forces one to use metric for all system measurements if you pick a country where metric is the rule. why can't I pick my formats, as formats? Why force me into a series of formats based on location with no option to change them?

Been like this since OS 7.2 as far as I recall.
"USA-ians" in general are ignorant of the rest of the world IMO and have a special blind spot when it comes to the English language which they think of as "theirs." It's that sub-concious attitude that US English is actually the "real" English that's at the root of it
[\\quote]
It is not a question of the people here thinking that the language is ours, contrary to what Europeans think we speak many here, it is just that we think the British have taken the language and screwed it up. Do realize to that due to the melting pot nature of the US we have a very malable version of English. British English on the other hand is very rigid and the result of to many acedemics with to much time on their hands.

Quote:

In mathematical terms, you can't make a super-set into a subset of one of it's own sub-sets without expecting some serious complications.

Math and English don't really mix well. But this highlights what is wrong with British English. That is the desire to over study and process the language. Unfortunately this leads to constructs that are simply wrong.


Dave
post #35 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

British English on the other hand is very rigid and the result of to many acedemics with to much time on their hands.

Despite the size of the country and its populace, American English is much more consistent across the country than in England (I'm not referring to the UK). There are probably more culturally diversified argot terms among the local colloquialisms of different townships in England than you find in Ebonics across the entire US. Of course, the boroughs of NYC (and surrounding areas) are very diverse in their dialect compared to the rest of the US.
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post #36 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

The "British English" dictionary is a big one for me since I use English all the time.
(Note to the Yanks, it's actually called "English" and "USA English" is the "weird sub-tongue")

I prefer to think of our version of English as the "new and improved" version.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

 

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

 

Get the lowdown on the coming collapse:  http://www.cbo.gov/publication/45010

Reply
post #37 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

In addition to American English being spoken as a native language by far more people than those speaking "English" English in The British Isles (Irish and Scottish "English, for example, is rather different, or so my Irish and Scottish friends tell me), and the former colonies, it's almost always American English thats tought everywhere else.

Not that it really matters. Our differences are minor, and our affection for our own version is nothing more than matter of being born where e are.

Ever heard of a little place called INDIA, you arrogant dick?

They speak a variant of British, not American, English. In fact there are so many English speakers in India that by rights our two versions will soon be called variations on Indian English.

Again you prove the US' ignorance of the outside world.
post #38 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by NanoAkron View Post

Ever heard of a little place called INDIA, you arrogant dick?

They speak a variant of British, not American, English. In fact there are so many English speakers in India that by rights our two versions will soon be called variations on Indian English.

Again you prove the US' ignorance of the outside world.

All English is a variant of British English in some regard. Melgross stated that far more people speak American English than "English" English which was earlier described as British English. The English (or Hinglish) commonly spoken in India is far from the proper British English Indians speak in movies. I found most of it impossible to understand for those who have not studied abroad, which is quite uncommon in India. If I were to speculate as to why there is such a disparity in Indian English, I'd say that it has to do with native Hindi speakers applying phonetic pronunciations that usually work in Hindi to English.
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post #39 of 57
If every iPhone buyer in Latin-American had Virgil's idea of segregate "Their" language then the Spanish Language option would have as many as 40 different versions. Spaniard Spanish, Mexican Spanish, Peruvian Spanish, Colombian Spanish, and so on.

It's not really about that. There should be one language for ALL countries that speak it. English should be standardized, Spanish should be standardized, Chinese should be as well and the majority of the widespread, and most-talk languages in the world should.

Why? Because the technical language used in ALL electronics (Cellphones, PDAs', Computers, Electrodomestics, Appliances) is the same.

Want me to be an ass? Fine, Apple headquarters are in the US.
-= Give me wings, that I might fly =-
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post #40 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by NanoAkron View Post

Ever heard of a little place called INDIA, you arrogant dick?

They speak a variant of British, not American, English. In fact there are so many English speakers in India that by rights our two versions will soon be called variations on Indian English.

Again you prove the US' ignorance of the outside world.

Look moron, I wasn't talking to you, and I was responding to something that you obviously haven't read, or understood.

Perhaps you noticed that others responded to that post as well?

You also didn't understand my post. That's pretty clear. First of all, I did mention "former colonies" which takes in much more than India. But, you've got your head in your ass, so you didn't see it.

Why don't you grow up?

We have these discussions all the time here.

You also obviously don't know that China, among many other countries has English taught as a required second language, and most of that is American English.

And apparently, you can't read too many words before getting tired, you dummy. My last words were:

Quote:
Not that it really matters. Our differences are minor, and our affection for our own version is nothing more than matter of being born where (w)e are.

which shows that I'm not taking it too seriously.

Calm down before you get banned, you little twit.
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