New iPod touch hidden in firmware; Microsoft's pro-Vista videos - Page 2

Who cares about this hidden camera garbage?! You're selling the OS, so just show the OS in action.

We've all seen how Apple uses timed capture videos to demonstrate exactly how things work as though you were right in front of the machine. There's no big sell or pitch, let's just show you how easy it is....MS take notes...

I am a Mac devotee. I have been stuck using a Laptop (PC) with Vista and it is full of stupid little issues. Never did I have such problems with a Mac. My next laptop will be a Mac no matter what. Vista sucks, Microsoft sucks and XP sucked too.

Additionally, Zune sucks and the pro-Vista Mojave site was a boring joke. Were those people on drugs? It was dreary and almost sad. Like a mental hospital.

It's much better when you add something productive to the forum instead of attacking people. I've seen you do it.

I get the feeling that the Mojave experiment (huh?) site is going to get more hits from Appleheads going for a snigger than any potential Vista revivalists. What is it with Microsoft? They have so many resources, all the expertise of the US PR industry at their disposal yet they keep getting things so horrendously wrong. I remember the Zune launch. Bill Gates, wearing a dull brown anorak and a weak sickly smile holding up that brown thing under a depressing low slate-grey sky - was that really supposed to stimulate and invigorate, to create a 'wow' factor? What is up with them? I just find it all a bit weird.

I've never actually had that problem on my Mac but on my Vista Home Premium machine it freezes up every time I even open the "network" icon and just sits there for about 5-10 mins, doing nothing. I use XP, Vista and Leopard everyday and I prefer Leopard, XP and Vista in that order. The implementation of Expose/Spaces is so good that it dwarfs any advantage XP or Vista has in compatibility IMO.

And Vista - I kept upgrading all the things it told me to and it killed my onboard audio - I literally tried EVERYTHING and was forced to buy a new audio card - nice...

Of course my Mac HD died once and that sucked but thankfully I was only a month or so removed from backing up most of my data to an external drive. So my experience hasn't been 100% amazing with either but with Apple it's been hardware issues whereas with MS it's been their System F-ing with me (I remember the computer before last had 98SE on it (around 2002) and one day it just decided it couldn't find the OS - now that was awesome as I hadn't done the whole back up the HD thing at that point but again it's a software issue, not a hardware once since I installed XP Pro on the exact same drive and it booted up just fine)

No kidding... What's the issue with wilco? Talk like an idiot, get scorned like an idiot.

Heh heh. Thankfully, he's at least stopped his roll-eyes!

Check out the bottom of this page: http://www.mojaveexperiment.com/facts/


Funny that it adds up to 121%. I suppose that could be due to some users using more than one OS. But still they should state that.

I think this survey is bias. I think it would be a very slim minority of people who haven't seen Vista before. The MS sales reps are giving a bias demonstration of the glossy features and not letting the user try it for themselves.

It's like AI posts Vista stories to deliberately feed some of the trolls.

LOL They didn't even get it right. It's not Apple OS. It's Mac OS X -- this seems unprofessional and either it's typical Microsoft incompetence or it's a big prank.

On that Facts page, they also say:

Microsoft studies have shown that Windows Vista users are 60% less likely to be infected with malware than users running Windows XP SP2.
First, it's the OS that gets infected, not the user. Second, they forgot to mention that Linux and Mac users are 100% less likely to get their system infected.

The page also says:
Thousands of devices now work with Vista.
Funny. There are a good deal more than "thousands" of devices that people need to work with Vista.

The page also says:
What do actual Windows Vista users have to say about Windows Vista? ... Over 90% rated Mojave higher after seeing the demo.
So are these or aren't these actual Windows Vista users?

The problem with Vista isn't Vista at all. It's drivers. You have to wait for 3rd party companies to provide quality drivers for their hardware. It's the price you pay for having a system that isn't controlled like Macs.
With good drivers Vista is fast and stable. I have been running it since beta. I also have XP and Leopard. Side by Side Vista is more stable than Leopard. They go back and forth and speed. Sometimes Vista wins, sometimes Leopard. But Vista is certainly not a pig. I find it to be faster than XP. Again, it's all about drivers. My hardware is well supported and everything works very well and never crashes.



Here are just some gaming benchmarks showing Vista vs XP. It edges out XP here by a hair. It's also 2 months old so there has been several driver updates since then and I imagine performance now would be even better. http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...2302500,00.asp

Final Thoughts:
If you were expecting a huge drop in performance as your eyes scanned from the XP to the Vista results, well, surprise! As many a tech analyst predicted, Windows Vista's gaming performance conundrum has largely been solved, and it was mainly due to early graphics drivers.

In fact, I'd been planning to run a few other gaming tests, but the results from these were so uninteresting that further work didn't seem merited. Love it or hate it, Vista is performing far better than it used to.

Game performance, it seems, has been exorcised from your concern when choosing a Microsoft operating system. That leaves a few other factors, of course: stability, responsiveness, eye candy, price, DirectX version, and a few other odds and ends.

It took about a year and a half, but the performance gap between Vista and its forerunner has finally evaporated.



Here's another review. This one is 10 months old and obviously drivers have matured since then. And issues were addressed in regards to SLI. In some cases Vista is faster, XP in others but in most they are neck and neck.
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/...rmance_update/

Here's some more from January
http://futuremark.yougamers.com/foru...ad.php?t=72298

It's interesting to see that Vista's performance seems to have progressed since it was released. The general usage tests are either faster or equal to XP. It should be noted that the program load times may be influenced slightly by the fact that the OSs reside on different drives (Samsung/WD). However, Vista is on the slower drive (the WD), so it only makes the results even more impressive. Talking about the program load times, it's obvious that Vista's SuperFetch feature works wonderfully. Even though I've only launched Photoshop and OpenOffice a few times, Vista has already picked this up and loads them into mem right after boot up. Crysis was almost certainly not cached into RAM during the test, but still loaded faster than in XP.

The horrendous file copy performance has been fixed. Performance is definitely higher than in XP. Also gone are the sometimes irritatingly long file deletion times. File deletion seems instantaneous now, just like it's always been in XP.

I'm sorry, but you have to be a delusional fanboy or just extremely ignorant of Vista's marketing problem to not realize the sheer brilliance of this first move in the campaign.

If the rest of this campaign is half as good as the first installment, it will be one of the most profitable campaigns in history.

Microsoft's problem with Vista isn't anything Leopard offers. Microsoft merely needs current XP users to update. The problem is that Vista's initial launch problems created a flurry of poor publicity, probably deserved. This has left the vast majority of Windows users, most of whom are admittedly dolts, that Vista "sucks" and offers nothing more than XP.

Well, Vista might suck. But it is nicer than XP. It's a better UI and it offers better features. Many XP users don't know the improvements and don't feel motivated to explore them.

That's what this ad accomplishes. It hammers home the same message, "check it out for yourself" "don't believe the crowd" "give it a look" "there's more to it than you realize."

It's simple seeking to open the mind of the potential customer to get them to investigate the product on their own. And that's exactly what they need. They need to convince millions of people that Vista is more than they thought it was.

Undoubtedly, when these people DO actually investigate Vista, they will find features that they weren't aware it had. Features that they think are pretty cool. It might not be better than OS X, but it doesn't need to be. It just needs to be better than XP. And, well, Vista IS better than XP.

So, phase 1: convince people that Vista is better than they've heard. This campaign will accomplish that.

Phase 2: after people are receptive to this idea they will have ads displaying features that people will be interested in.


This ad campaign absolutely will lead to higher Vista sales. Just wait and see.

The cool, user friendly OS you thought you were going to have... turned out to be a mirage!

Since you're so quick to point out how dumb people are, might I point out that the correct expression is "couldn't care less". If you could care less, then that means you still care a little bit. Got it?

I'm a Mac user but I don't think Windows users are dumb. Uninformed maybe but not dumb. As to people who use words without processing what they actually mean. . .

Who's the delusional fanboy? You made an account just to post a defense of Microsoft.
Okay, no offense. Just a little mirror for you. ;-) You're right in a sense -- Vista does have many improvements that nobody is taking the time to look at.
However, Vista does have problems and bugs and other things not related to 3rd party drivers etc. Subjecting more people to Vista won't solve anything, and even though it's an improvement in some ways, it's not up to XP in terms of reliability, nor are its hardware requirements in line with most computers people have.

How on Earth could you possibly know my full reasons for making an account here? Talk about a ridiculous assumption on your part. I don't even think that I "defended" Microsoft, although I must certainly say that their ad agency did something which I think was remarkable, unexpected, and will produce the exact result they are seeking: increased sales of Vista.

If you must know I made an account because in reading the comments on this article I was so astonished at how everyone's wild hostility towards Microsoft keeps them from realizing when Microsoft has made a good move. Being Microsoft it's probably not good for the consumer and probably isn't good for the industry, but it was a great move for Microsoft.

Frankly, I'm sick of the Apple Fanboys obsession with Microsoft. I'm so sick of hearing about "if Apple only made...." (a mid range desktop, OS X license for every computer, whatever) that somehow Apple is going to defeat Microsoft. If these anti-Microsoft zealots had been in charge of Apple, we'd never have had the iPod, iTunes, Final Cut, iPhone, or all these other great Apple products that weren't designed to go head to head with Microsoft but were instead meant to seize portions of the market that Microsoft hadn't seized.

Jeezus, if some of these people had been running things they'd have ignored all of that and instead pushed for a low price Mac and some cheesy ass office suite.

This is a good ad for Microsoft. It will lead to more Vista sales and it will also lead to fewer current MS users investigating moving to Apple. That's something that should concern any serious Mac supporter. Snarky comments and insisting that it's a bad campaign might be fun, but I'm convinced it won't be a good thing. Particularly when we begin to watch Vista sales take off. Which they will.

now take your statement and apply them to the whole "im a mac, im a pc" campaign. gasp! there's no showing of the Mac OS in those! Microsoft's effort is as bad as Apple's ads.

Whoa. Take it easy. Your first post indicated why you made the account. I could be wrong, but take it easy.

We will see how Vista's market share increases. It is kind of the only option now, so that would also aid adoption. But you seem to be so hotheaded about people making jokes about one of Microsoft's stunts. If you're not looking for "fanboys", don't read an Apple rumors website.

I used to have this problem all the time prior to Leopard. But I have to agree with solipsism that it hasn't reared it's head in Leopard yet (and yes, I connect to both SMB and AFP shares). I just get a window asking me if I want to disconnect from the share.

OTOH, try browsing through Windows Explorer after network drive mappings have disappeared. Now that's painful. It doesn't bring the system to a halt, but you pretty much lose all file browsing ability and tend to get random hourglass appearances when accessing files in general.

Indeed. In fact, one of their key subjects in the video calls Vista a Programme!

the basic message of the marketing campaign seems somewhat clever. wipe out the negative preconceptions that people have of vista and then give them a chance to view the OS with fresh eyes. although, it's also trickery. in fact, it's much like the pizza hut / pasta hut commercials where they serve customers pasta in a restaurant and ask how it was, then reveal that "pizza hut delivered the pasta"

i just wish the participants in this little experiment could have been shown a mac or a linux system as well. i don't use linux, but i have friends who praise it so i can only speak to the mac side of things. most of the little tidbits i watched had people rejoicing over the ability to edit and burn a dvd, stitch some photos together, type in letters to get search results instead of navigating through application paths and file trees, etc. these are such basic activities that should have been done right YEARS ago! oh wait, these little things HAVE been in OSX for years (maybe linux too, i don't know for certain).

i've used vista and my biggest gripe is that too much was changed all at once. well, that and it seemed slow and unreliable. i find windows to be a struggle. it's as though doing a simple task is intended to be met with hurdles such as crashing apps (or 'programs' as i used to call them before switching to a mac), random reboots, missing files, etc. i've experienced all sorts of setbacks with windows xp even that it put me off from using an OS that needs so much troubleshooting. maybe they'll get it right with their next release?

This actually proves nothing.

If you sit any user down with vista initial impressions ARE 'Wow, this is really cool, ooh transparent bars, ahh! nice photo stuff' We advise them to purchase a system with XP pro but no, they are sold on the new GUI and bells and whistles.

Its not until they actually have to use it that it turns into

'fuxxing piece of shit, its fuxxing crashed again for no good reason (especialy on laptops after SP1).

or

'for fuxx sakes, its not shutting down again, or if it does shut down when you start it up again you are greeted by a screen stating that vista failed to shut down correctly and that it wants to scan your hard drive'

or

'what the fuxx, my [insert name] software won't fuxxing install'

or

'why the hell can't this connect to wi-fi networks (works on one but not on another identical router????, very common problem' (we supply and install wifi kit to major hotels throughout the UK and this is an growing issue, you can take 2 identical vista laptops, one connects one wont ??)

Ultimately all of this ends up with a call to us at IT support to downgrade their systems to XP Pro.

As usual, Microsoft software is a crapbag for consumers but we IT pros do very VERY nicely from it

haha they fixed it, now it's working properly. Way to go, microsoft! Way to go!

Can't wait- bring on the new iPod Touches. But I don't think they would make them more functional than an iPhone- at least not yet. That would cut into iPhone sales. ANd for that reason I don't see Apple adding a camera- but I wish they would and it handles video conferencing.

Has anybody here else noticed that most posts here ignore discussion of merit regarding technology and instead focus on either whining about something or constantly bashing the competition- what a waste of time & energy.

It's hard to imagine what they would do with an iTouch that would warrant a 2.0.

Maybe add a HD option and completely replace the Classic? I'd love a 160GB iPod Touch!

Serious question: why did MS take bad actors for their videos?

I was hoping to at least see no semblance that this whole experiment was rigged.

It's one thing for Microsoft to even think about an apologetic website but to go ahead and build one is nuts. Microsoft are just needlessly pointing something out to a lot of Vista users who, beyond those who read forums like this, haven't had any major issue's with Vista.

Point in case is my father-in-law who bought a laptop with Vista installed when it first came out and he's very happy. I tease him but he just looks at me blankly. He lent me the laptop last week and to be honest i don't know what all the fuss is about it. In fact i quite liked Vista, certainly more intuitive that XP, and i've been a Mac head since the early 90's.

Surely the better strategy would be to just get their heads down, fix the bugs and move on.

Good lord...poor M$. When I heard about Ballmer's whining about how Apple has defined Vista, all I could do was laugh. But this really takes the prize. They had to trick people into using Vista. Wow. And of course, they didn't address many of the very real issues it has, such as compatibility, speed on older hardware and lower-end machines, etc.

I've played with Vista a few times on my girlfriend's computer, a 6 month old Dell. It's a consumer level machine. The verdict? I hate it. It's terrible. The good news is that she loves my Mac and really wants to get one now!

One more item: Why does Microsoft think that when an institution like my school district buys new laptops, they get XP instead of Vista? Do they really mean to tell us that our IT people are victims of Apple's marketing campaign?

Giving Galen credit, it is a good campaign.

But it is still fun to come here and rip on ms without worrying about objectivity sometimes

In particular, my favorite part was when the guy talked about "features you could only dream of years ago" when many of the most consumer oriented features (flip3d, gadgets, sidebar) were on tiger in one form or another

yeah: yada yada yada, microsoft sucks, we all know that, end of discussion..

so...
new ipod touch eh?

I really really hope they tackled the playlist thing.
it is incredible that we have a device with an OS, that can type letters, and yet it is more primitive in it's functions than the ipod classic.. ???

please, please, please give us the ability to safe an on-the-go playlist, rename it, and make a new one..
I mean, on my classic I could make a couple of playlists on the go. why on earth is this not possible with the touch??
also I like the fact that I could add songs to the list by holding the center button, the way to add songs on the touch is just really awkward. and no way (not that I have found) to add the currently playing song to the playlist..


(but to add to the windows comments: so this 300 million dollar campaign is basically a copy of the mac switcher ad from 2002???)

I watched some of the "so convincing ads" and it is quite hard for me to believe that none of those people (especially the younger ones) haven't seen Vista before. I 'm a Mac User and I never used Windows Vista, but I sure know how it looks like. Everybody at work knows how it looks like. Some of them bought new PCs with Vista pre-installed and some of them just saw Vista because they demo it in every major computer shop, and it is enough to recognize it.

So...... in what Vista-ignorant world do these people (should I say actors or paid stuff) live in?

There is one thing though.... perhaps they disguised the GUI too.

Quite suspicious.

I'm not with my main computer, but I seem to recall paying $9 to upgrade my Touch software to 2.0, which added the app store, a couple other things, and the ability to run the new aps. So 2.1 is probably just the tweak to that. Other Touch users, am I wrong or is this Apple Insider author just out of touch - with reality.

They probably just changed the default background picture

Of course if you watch the video you'll see that they are just getting demos - they aren't actually working with the computer. Umm, uhh, yeah... That really defeats the purpose as I doubt anyone would say that Vista doesn't give a great demo (or any other product for that matter) but in actual real world usage is where the problems are. Or maybe those people don't actually have to use computers and are just going to pay MS to use the computer for them...

And come on - giving Vista a 0 - she's obviously either 1) stupid or 2) an actor. I don't like it but I wouldn't give it a 0. a 0 means you can't do ANYTHING on it at all and that's just stupid. I'd probably give it a 5 or 6, XP a 7 maybe 8 on a really good day and Leopard between 8.5 and 9.5 as I haven't run into any problems with it at all (and I installed it on day 1).

I think you're talking the OS version and AppleInsider is talking the hardware (model) version.

I was about to say the same thing...

Reminds me of those inane commercials from the 70's & 80's....


Give me a flippin break...

Dave

Yeah but it isn't very good Flash. The third and forth videos are linked to the same clip. The loading screen doesn't really load anything and doesn't cache. The cursors don't rollover correctly , on and on. Looks like this was rushed out the door for sure. You got to love the guy that says brown is his favorite color.

I've used Vista, admittedly only for a couple of hours (on my friend's Dell) and it didn't blow me away. Its UI is horrible, and its a memory whore. Because it wasn't my computer I haven't experienced any of the reported issues, but I didn't enjoy using it.

It felt and looked like a tarted up version of XP. I definitely prefer the sleekness of Leopard and how user friendly it is :]

Waitaminnit.... you have a girlfriend? Then what's really wrong with you?

i disagree, sort of.

I don't think that this little campaign proves those things at all. but it does prove that Microsoft believes such to be true.

Oh no, ha ha ha ha ha, boy you sure told me. I totally didn't put a space between those two words did I? Wow I am dumb.

You know, spelling is the easiest way to point out your pseudo superiority over someone on a message board when you have nothing else witty to say.

Thanks for taking the time out of your busy day to respond. I know you're busy defending Microtard morons all over the globe.

Hugs and kisses!