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Microsoft 10K warns of iPhone, Mac threats as iPhone nears 1.1% share - Page 3

post #81 of 116
Q: What do you call a plane-load of MS management folks at the bottom of the ocean?

A: A good start.
Pity the agnostic dyslectic. They spend all their time contemplating the existence of dog.
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Pity the agnostic dyslectic. They spend all their time contemplating the existence of dog.
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post #82 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by penchanted View Post

That's one way of looking at it. But a more telling indication is looking at the growth rate of the stock.

Since Jan 6, 1995, MSFT has gone from 3.775 to 25.44 for increase of 674% while AAPL has gone from 10.50 to 156.66 for an increase of 1492%.

Over the past year MSFT has gone from 29.54 to 25.44 for a negative growth -13.9% while AAPL has increased from 132.90 to 156.6 for an increase of almost 118%. Seems to me that the market is looking away from MSFT in terms of future opportunities.



Aside from what Solipsism has pointed out in terms of comparing comparable products, you still overlook that your 89.45% market share is a contraction from their previous market share. Much like the market cap, Microsoft's market share is also in atrophy.

What I would really like to know is what compels someone like you to come to a Mac-related forum and register with a provocative username in a pitiful attempt to stir up senseless BS. And, if you must do so, you had at least be able to make more compelling arguments than "neener, neener,neener, mine is bigger than yours". You cannot even acknowledge that Apple has made significant strides as evidenced in the links I posted above which show Apple even making headway in the enterprise market (not to mention you got it completely wrong about "Yes, Apple OSX is great but name one bank, large corporation or Auto Dealership that uses Macs."

Another way to look at it is; who makes more money every quarter every year.

Microsoft Return on Investment
Return on Average Equity 1st Quarter 08 - 46.68%

Apple Return on Investment
Return on Average Equity 1st Quarter 08 - 22.83%

Sorry for the double quote but my stats were questioned.
You can twist the numbers any way you want to. Microsoft has always dominated Apple.

Besides that year Apple came out with the Newton. That was a great year for Apple.
Then this year with Apple TV (about as popular as Zune).

Let's not forget Panther with it's Vista like problems.

Gee. I'm sorry for being honest but Yes Apple is an innovator but because of their arrogance they will never see the potential they could be. This only gives the compition to Copy their innovatioins and put them out for the 80x% of the people running Windows.
post #83 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Good questions... I think they will actually go down in the not so distant future regardless of my personal wishes to see them go. This loosely based on the concept of the bigger they are the harder they fall lol. The personal desire is based on the history (mine and theirs ).

I have far less fear of a monopolistic Apple as long as SJ is around simply because I don't think he is driven to compete in the normal sense. He is driven to create 'insanely great stuff' for its own sake. After SJ you might have a point and Apple may become another lumbering giant. However I would expect others to fill a void left my MS or even parts of MS would most likely split off a rotting carcass and possible survive and do well. So hopefully Apple will be kept on their toes so to speak.

They did build OS X to finally gain the UNIX stamp of approval, it is bundled with Apache, PHP, etc.. and the browsers installed don't lock you out of any other browser. This is all because of the lessons learned by M$.
Without competition, would Apple's vertically integrated line-up look monopolistic? Would they squash the small guy, or buy them out of existence? I say yes. Without competition, everyone gets greedy.
post #84 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by MakesSense2Me View Post

Do they give new employees free lobotomies? Do they put stupid pills in the coffee every morning?

Nicely said.

I think it's the bloated corporate culture.....
post #85 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by technohermit View Post

They did build OS X to finally gain the UNIX stamp of approval, it is bundled with Apache, PHP, etc.. and the browsers installed don't lock you out of any other browser. This is all because of the lessons learned by M$.
Without competition, would Apple's vertically integrated line-up look monopolistic? Would they squash the small guy, or buy them out of existence? I say yes. Without competition, everyone gets greedy.

You are basing the sole success of Apple on the one Guy that saved it from square boxes and terrible designs.

Bill Gates has moved on to more important matters like "helping people" and Microsoft will continue to do great things and make the same mistakes as Apple (With Steve at the Relm).

Apple was nothing without Steve and he makes sure everyday that he has the last word on every part of Apple.

When your stock can takes a dive because the CEO is ill you have to be worried that anyone at Apple can be as arrogant as Steve to pull it off.

The days of Square boxes and Zune designs come back into play when Steve leaves Apple. They can't think for themselves. They have listened to the Great Steve for so long they wouldn't know how to clock in each morning without him.
post #86 of 116
GM has a much larger market share than Rolls Royce.
Wal-Mart has a much larger market share than Bloomingdale's........but
post #87 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by WidnowsGuy View Post

Microsoft Return on Investment
Return on Average Equity 1st Quarter 08 - 46.68%

Apple Return on Investment
Return on Average Equity 1st Quarter 08 - 22.83%

I'm not sure what those numbers represent, but they don't seem to have anything to do with the value of my Apple stock. My Apple stock has grown approximately 500% since I purchased it.
post #88 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by WidnowsGuy View Post

Another way to look at it is; who makes more money every quarter every year.

Microsoft Return on Investment
Return on Average Equity 1st Quarter 08 - 46.68%

Apple Return on Investment
Return on Average Equity 1st Quarter 08 - 22.83%

Sorry for the double quote but my stats were questioned.
You can twist the numbers any way you want to. Microsoft has always dominated Apple.

Besides that year Apple came out with the Newton. That was a great year for Apple.
Then this year with Apple TV (about as popular as Zune).

Let's not forget Panther with it's Vista like problems.

Gee. I'm sorry for being honest but Yes Apple is an innovator but because of their arrogance they will never see the potential they could be. This only gives the compition to Copy their innovatioins and put them out for the 80x% of the people running Windows.

Please stop feeding the trolls. Here are the real numbers for Dec 31, 2007 for both companies straight from the 10Qs.

paid-in capital (PIC) is the total cash into the company by investors so that the ROE is investor focussed not use of current capital which is much more industry dependent - hardware being more capital intensive that software.

In billions as of Dec 31, 2007

Microsoft

Paid-in Capital (PIC) - 62.5
Market Cap - 326
1Q net income - 4.7
ROE for 1Q'08 - 7.5%
MktCap/PIC - 5.2

Apple

Paid-in Capital (PIC) - 6.05
Market Cap - 175
1Q net income - 1.58
ROE of 1Q'08 - 26%
MktCap/PIC - 29

Add to this that over the last 4 years (Dec 31, 2003 - Dec 31, 2007)

apple share price increase = 934%
msft share price increase = - 6% (a decrease and note this is despite significant share repurchases)

MS used to do things like this but that is way in the past.
post #89 of 116
Quote:
Microsoft intends to fight back primarily by working more closely with third-party PC builders to create a more Mac-like union between hardware and software

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAAAAA...

... gasp...

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA....
post #90 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by physguy View Post

Please stop feeding the trolls. Here are the real numbers for Dec 31, 2007 for both companies straight from the 10Qs.

paid-in capital (PIC) is the total cash into the company by investors so that the ROE is investor focussed not use of current capital which is much more industry dependent - hardware being more capital intensive that software.

In billions as of Dec 31, 2007

Microsoft

Paid-in Capital (PIC) - 62.5
Market Cap - 326
1Q net income - 4.7
ROE for 1Q'08 - 7.5%
MktCap/PIC - 5.2

Apple

Paid-in Capital (PIC) - 6.05
Market Cap - 175
1Q net income - 1.58
ROE of 1Q'08 - 26%
MktCap/PIC - 29

Add to this that over the last 4 years (Dec 31, 2003 - Dec 31, 2007)

apple share price increase = 934%
msft share price increase = - 6% (a decrease and note this is despite significant share repurchases)

MS used to do things like this but that is way in the past.

Stop using bold or colors even though it's an option here. The admin says it's not allowed and considered TROLLING, especially when you say something negative against Apple. Steve is God. Long live the Savior, worship him.

That last reply sounds like sheep, follow the heard.
post #91 of 116
If MS falls it will be at their own hands, they are too big and entrenched for anyone but themselves to take out. Apple may be a reason for caution, but really if they are worried about a company that may have 6% market share then they are really paranoid. But now if looking at Apple and iPod and the Wii and now PS3 then I think there is a trend. But that trend is countered MSs' enterprise and server software. Face it the only real thing for MS to fear is mismanagement, and that is not something they would want to call out in a 10K report. Chorus!

Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

(edited quote)

This time I beg to differ oh wise one . Since the early 1980's I have dreamed of the day
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post #92 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by WidnowsGuy View Post

Stop using bold or colors even though it's an option here. The admin says it's not allowed and considered TROLLING, especially when you say something negative against Apple. Steve is God. Long live the Savior, worship him.

That last reply sounds like sheep, follow the heard.

Why not just reply to the quote, rather than be a dick-head about it
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post #93 of 116
Mr. mis-spelled user name,

You want facts ?

Microsoft representatives have made specific reference to Apple's competitive threat, in a venue where they previously have not.

Have any friends at Microsoft? When you have time could you ask them why they felt they needed to bring this up ?

Remember, it's not in dispute that the comments about competitive threat were made as part of the 10-K, the only question remaining is what assessments they made before making the statement that they made. Do you believe that your personal assessments are better than the ones made by MS staff ?

Oh and here's five years worth of data in one easy to read chart:

http://tinyurl.com/msft-vs-aapl-5yr
post #94 of 116
I see all this dialog with a "Wid Nows Guy", but I'm too ignorant to know what a Wid Nows guy is. What's a Wid Nows? Can they think for themselves? Can they spell? Have they graduated from the third grade?


Quote:
Originally Posted by WidnowsGuy View Post

The day 25% of people use Mac will be 10 years after Microsoft get's out of the OS & Software Market.

Apple has a VERY small market share and FanBoy's giggle when you gain .001% over 30 Years.

Yes, Apple OSX is great but name one bank, large corporation or Auto Dealership that uses Macs.
90% of Business is done on PC's that run Windows. By default most home users buy the same thing so they can work at home.

Since Microsoft has given in to the fact that people like a better user experience it will only nibble on the pathetic % of users that run Mac's.

Even Graphic's software is being released on PC's first. That's because even Graphic houses are converting to PC's.

Apple has the Market on 1 item. IPOD
1% of the phone market with the competion quickly learning what an end user wants.

Get real here. As long as the Microsoft corporation exists they will rule the PC OS software Market.
post #95 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by WidnowsGuy View Post

... 90% of Business is done on PC's that run Windows. By default most home users buy the same thing so they can work at home ...

And I'm willing to bet most of these people who work at home do it for free, because the companies they work for just aren't making enough money to hire enough people to get the job done and guilt employees into doing whatever it takes to get the job done.

Probably spending that money on I.T. Departments to keep their Windows infrastructures running. Hey, Bill Gates didn't become the world's richest man by saving people money. He put in motion a corporation that kept squeezing money out of others with a false promise of computer efficiencies. So why are people working harder and longer for less nowadays?

It's really a sad day when American corporations dictate what your computer experience in your own home will be just for the sake of ensuring they can squeeze more unpaid overtime out of you.
post #96 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by WidnowsGuy View Post

OK you're right...
With XP, Vista and Win 2000 they only own 89.45% of the total OS market.

And that's with Vista being a complete failure.

Go Steve Go!!!!!!!!! We love you so, so much. Loves & Kisses FanBoy


Once again PC guys never see the big picture. It doesn't matter how much of the OS market MS own today or yesterday. What matters is how much of the OS market you can keep in the future.

MS makes very little money on Windows 95, 98, 2000 or XP users as long as they stay with those OS. (and I won't even go into how much MS makes on businesses that aren't planning to upgrade to Vista. Ever!.) The biggest money comes when these old MS OS users, in the future, upgrade to Vista (or Windows 7). In the old days, over 98% of older MS OS users would upgrade to another MS OS (When it comes time to upgrade.). Thus MS had no problem maintaining their over 95% market share. But that's not true today. Only about 90% of these users are upgrading to Vista (when it comes time to upgrade.). (That's including the idiots that buy Vista so that they can downgrade to XP.)

This downward trend for MS OS has been going on for over 5 years now. And with Vista being a flop, there's no reversal in sight. This is why MS is trying to get Windows 7 out early. The numbers are in and PC users don't want Vista. MS knows that the longer it takes for an old MS OS user to upgrade, the better chance Apple has in converting that user to OSX. In the mean time MS is planning to barrage the consumers with commericails pointing out the advantages of Vista over OSX. (a ten second spot would be more than enough time for this ) Now MS had ran commericals before. But back then they were trying to get old MS users to upgrade to the new OS. Now they're trying to keep their old OS users from upgrading to Apple OSX.

But I have no doubt that MS will retain a dominate OS market share for years to come. It may only be 75%. But still a dominate market share. After all, PC boys seems to enjoy swallowing whatever Monkey Boy Steve shove down their throats. And if it means going out and buying a new PC, which they didn't need in the first place, just so that they can run the lastest so-so OS from MS, the PC idiots will gladly swallow if it makes Monkey Boy Steve happy

Only in the bizarre world of PC is Vista being a flop (after 7 years and billions of dollars in the making) but MS still has 90% of the OS market share, some how something to shout about.
post #97 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonfj View Post

I've been working in the industry for 20 years in both the US and UK and in my experience very few design or production companies run PCs. There's an aesthetic that such companies appreciate and value over cost.

...add that from the almost 150 photogs and design/production houses that I work with are RETURNING to Mac in droves, and tossing their PCs, including those of the secretaries and assorted admin service departments. This after switching to Windows in the late 90's, when it appeared that Apple was going to tank. OK, all you FanBoyz can kick us for not staying loyal, but this is and always will be about business, getting the job done, with least amount of hassle, with tools that work. Just like a carpenter, a mechanic, or even a bank. Use the tool(s) that are best for the job. Apple wins hands down in the design industry.
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post #98 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post

...add that from the almost 150 photogs and design/production houses that I work with are RETURNING to Mac in droves, and tossing their PCs, including those of the secretaries and assorted admin service departments. This after switching to Windows in the late 90's, when it appeared that Apple was going to tank. OK, all you FanBoyz can kick us for not staying loyal, but this is and always will be about business, getting the job done, with least amount of hassle, with tools that work. Just like a carpenter, a mechanic, or even a bank. Use the tool(s) that are best for the job. Apple wins hands down in the design industry.

Absolutely true - this is what happened. In fact I'll even say that it was true of the motion graphics sector prior to the Intel change - so as recently as 3 years ago. And in many ways it's still true with most of the developers of real time broadcast titling and playback still only developing for pc.

A dedicated Winbox wiped a Mac's butt up down and sideways back then. I said dedicated ... like I posted earlier a box for 1 job only running only what was necessary to do the job, never on the net.

All Widnows Guy is doing is spouting either irrelevant facts and figures or spreading bull pucky. (I had typed FUD but the term isn't appropriate round here - at least not from him.)
Maybe he's Squirter? lol
(I don't know why we're wasting our breath).
post #99 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by WidnowsGuy View Post

Gee. I'm sorry for being honest but Yes Apple is an innovator but because of their arrogance they will never see the potential they could be. This only gives the compition to Copy their innovatioins and put them out for the 80x% of the people running Windows.

Yeah, and those who built the Titanic said it is unsinkable.

What goes around, come around. This is what happens when you use dirty tactics to force compitition out. This time, MS will suffer more than their victims because the compitition are not doing anything illegal and they cannot do anything about it. In my opinion, Apple is not the only one MS need to worry about.
post #100 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by zunx View Post

The day 25% of people use a Mac, Windows will be history in three years. Windows is maintained solely on inertia and user ignorance. Someone at Redmod must be nervous. Microsoft, do the Humanity a favor and get out of business! Let the technology evolve once and for all. Get lost! You have demonstrated that are pathetic. You are not worth it!

I'm in an office for a few weeks where the equipment is Windows XP. One app needed the proxy set up, and it took me a few hours to figure out that I had to copy the settings from Internet Explorer not from a global system setting, and then from settings for the "LAN" buried a few layers deep. Why, I ask you with tears in my voice, is this (a) not a global system setting and (b) a LAN setting?

(I found the information eventually from a help page from the app in question, not from anything on the system or on the M$ site.)

Back to iPhone vs. M$ discussion...

Philip Machanick creator of Opinionations and Green Grahamstown
Department of Computer Science, Rhodes University, South Africa

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Philip Machanick creator of Opinionations and Green Grahamstown
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post #101 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by zunx View Post

The day 25% of people use a Mac, Windows will be history in three years. Windows is maintained solely on inertia and user ignorance. Someone at Redmod must be nervous. Microsoft, do the Humanity a favor and get out of business! Let the technology evolve once and for all. Get lost! You have demonstrated that are pathetic. You are not worth it!


Great point. Nine years ago when I first started using computers I thought Windows was THE operating system.
Linux, huh? Mac OS X, huh?
Didn't know about any alternatives and I'm sure that until the "Hi I'm a Mac..." commercials popped up a few years ago, millions of people were in the same category.
It's a new day
post #102 of 116
Yeah... this is a big worry... 'cuz... like... the Zune was so successful!
post #103 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by penchanted View Post

Since Jan 6, 1995, MSFT has gone from 3.775 to 25.44 for increase of 674% while AAPL has gone from 10.50 to 156.66 for an increase of 1492%.

Over the past year MSFT has gone from 29.54 to 25.44 for a negative growth -13.9% while AAPL has increased from 132.90 to 156.6 for an increase of almost 118%. Seems to me that the market is looking away from MSFT in terms of future opportunities.

Dude... you need a serious review on how to calculate percentages!!!
post #104 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimdkc View Post

Dude... you need a serious review on how to calculate percentages!!!

Thanks, I forgot to back the base out of my calculations I really should have caught that when comparing the 118% v -13.9%). But I think the main point that Apple's stock has demonstrated much better performance over Microsoft's remains intact.

I will fix it in my original post to avoid future confusion.
post #105 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by philipm View Post

I'm in an office for a few weeks where the equipment is Windows XP. One app needed the proxy set up, and it took me a few hours to figure out that I had to copy the settings from Internet Explorer not from a global system setting, and then from settings for the "LAN" buried a few layers deep. Why, I ask you with tears in my voice, is this (a) not a global system setting and (b) a LAN setting?

(I found the information eventually from a help page from the app in question, not from anything on the system or on the M$ site.)

Back to iPhone vs. M$ discussion...

You do know you can have a proxy given out to all computers via group policy right? Here on my windows 2k3 and winxp network not single setting is done machine by machine. Everything is done through group policy.

I also think that the users of this site saying that microsoft is dying is false. I think that if microsoft starts copying apple then apple could be in big trouble.

If microsoft starts putting out its own pc's then apple could have competition on their hands. Microsoft has always put out decent if not great hardware. Heck i still have the microsoft mn-700 router that at the time was better then a lot of the competing brands.

Also the zune was a great device and it wasnt because of the horrible hardware that it didnt sell (i think my zune actually has better sound quality then my ipod touch).

Microsofts problem is their advertising . Plain and simple. I think microsoft is in a better position then apple sites and fans tend to beleive .Come on if vista is considered a failure then thats pretty darn good.

I think apple should be pretty worried. Have you actually seen any of the research that microsoft has been doing on the hardware side . like surface and the new display tech?
post #106 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

...company CEO Steve Ballmer has already made clear in a leaked internal memo not just that Apple is a threat but also that Microsoft intends to fight back primarily by working more closely with third-party PC builders to create a more Mac-like union between hardware and software.

They could start by abandoning the expensive and lengthy WHQL certification program and switch to something truly revolutionary.

Unless the environment is truly seamless they still won't scratch the surface of the success Apple has as a result of its integrated architecture.
post #107 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by AHeneen View Post

...and then Apple will be slammed by the SEC & EU's anti-trust laws. While I am no expert, Apple's high profit margins, limited selection, & integrated software(product bundling) would clearly (if Apple controlled most of the market) resemble price-rigging & product bundling: prohibited anti-competitive practices. While I would certainly love to see the day Apple controls the whole computer market and Microsoft withers away, Apple certainly needs to change a few of its policies. First, they'd need to widen their product selection, lower prices, start charging for some of their integrated software (I know we all hate this idea, but maybe have 2 OS X flavors), & allow other companies to install OS X on their computers (another dreaded idea). Yes, they would have to open up and allow OS X to be installed on other makes of computers...we must admit that Apple's integration of hardware and software would be monopolistic and unobtainable should they gain the overwhelming majority of the market share.

In other words...for Apple to control the market, they'd loose what we love most about our beloved Apple. They'd need to become a (not completely) different company.

Your assumptions and logic are flawed. There's nothing illegal about having a vertically integrated business. Period. No matter what size it is. You are confusing what you want Apple to do with what the government requires. Even having a monopoly isn't illegal, especially when you get there via organic growth and not acquisitions.
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post #108 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by penchanted View Post

Thanks, I forgot to back the base out of my calculations I really should have caught that when comparing the 118% v -13.9%). But I think the main point that Apple's stock has demonstrated much better performance over Microsoft's remains intact.

I will fix it in my original post to avoid future confusion.

Frankly, it was quite obvious that you meant 18% (and not 118%) by just eyeballing the data you provided, so no big deal to someone like me.....
post #109 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortom1981 View Post

...Microsoft has always put out decent if not great hardware. Heck i still have the microsoft mn-700 router that at the time was better then a lot of the competing brands.

I had their mn-500 router which was the 802.11b only version of the mn-700. Not a bad peice of hardware at the time, but support for the device left much to be desired.

I had the microsoft sidewinder game voice. It was great for counterstrike. Now, you can't even get a driver for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by majortom1981 View Post

...Microsofts problem is their advertising . Plain and simple. ..

I disagree. In my opinion, Microsoft's biggest problem is a lack of care. They don't love their products enough to only release the best software, and the best hardware. In my opinion everything that Microsoft makes leaves much more to be desired than everything that Apple makes.
  1. They have had issues with compatibility within their own product lines. (remember Zune didn't even work on Vista at first?)
  2. They are constantly creating new versions of their hardware products, leaving older products in the lurch without support.
  3. They create new software products to take the place of older products, but fail to integrate the features of the older products into the newer ones. (Image Composer, PhotoDraw both had some useful features that are still not found in any other microsoft product to date)

Quote:
Originally Posted by majortom1981 View Post

...I think apple should be pretty worried. Have you actually seen any of the research that microsoft has been doing on the hardware side . like surface and the new display tech?..

Yeah laser displays and touch sensitive mice. Nothing that Apple should be worried about. http://research.microsoft.com/hardware/

Microsoft is too busy trying to re-invent the wheel (or reverse-engineer it) that they're not innovating. No new tech has been released from Microsoft since Xbox 360. And there's nothing innovative about that either. It's just a more powerful computer in a smaller box. That was expected. They should do something unexpected, the way Apple does.

They should direct their focus on actually releasing any new technology that hasn't been seen before on the grand scale, the way Apple did with the iPhone and its touch-sensitive glass screen.
post #110 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
...company CEO Steve Ballmer has already made clear in a leaked internal memo not just that Apple is a threat but also that Microsoft intends to fight back primarily by working more closely with third-party PC builders to create a more Mac-like union between hardware and software.

The only way this is going to happen is if the third party hardware is a Mac.

And this is not so far fetch as one might think. It's easy to imagine Apple OSX being 25% of the OS market. But when you consider that in order for this to happen, Apple must also own 25% of the computer hardware market. Right now HP and Dell each own about 15% to 18% of the computer hardware market. (not sure if this includes business PCs'.) So Apple owning 25% of the hardware market would be a very difficult goal to reach. I can see Apple getting to about 15% on thier own.

At this point Apple can do one of two things. Allow lincensed Mac clones. This would increase their OS market share. But at the same time it may decrease their hardware market share. And hardware is where Apple makes the most money. The other thing Apple can do is to allow MS to optimize a Mac version of Windows. This would increase Mac sales and at the same time increase OSX presence in the market. As every Mac sold will stilll have OSX installed. Working with MS to optimize a version Windows for Macs would almost create a win-win deal. MS is primarily a software company and won't be losing any market share to Apple OSX. And Apple is primarily a hardware company and gets to sell more Macs to Window users looking for an Apple-like experience.

So imagine this day. In the not so distant future. It's the WWCD. Rumours of a special surpise guest on alll the Apple news sites. Jobs finishes up his keynote and say "and one more thing". Lights dim. Curtains open to reveal a giant Apple logo with the MS color flag imbedded in it. Then the music starts and Steve Balmer entertains the Apple crowd with the long version of a "Monkey Dance". And at the end, Balmer steps up to the podium and yell "I LOVE THIS COMPANY". Jobs then announces an agreement with MS to license an optimized version of Windows for Macs'. And he also announce that Apple will continue to support the two most popular programs on Windoes, iTunes and Safari. Plus, Apple willl be buying 1 billion dollars worth of MS stocks. All of this in an effort to show Apples' support for the financially troubled company.

Don't laugh. How many people here thought they would never see the day when a Mac would run on an Intel processor.
post #111 of 116
"And at the end, Balmer steps up to the podium and yell "I LOVE THIS COMPANY".

ROFLMAO
Too funnee ...

Anyone else but him ... I mean, you know - he's well, just such a dork.
post #112 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortom1981 View Post

Microsofts problem is their advertising . Plain and simple.

With Vista, it is the product

It absolutely blows
post #113 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post

...add that from the almost 150 photogs and design/production houses that I work with are RETURNING to Mac in droves, and tossing their PCs, including those of the secretaries and assorted admin service departments. This after switching to Windows in the late 90's, when it appeared that Apple was going to tank. OK, all you FanBoyz can kick us for not staying loyal, but this is and always will be about business, getting the job done, with least amount of hassle, with tools that work. Just like a carpenter, a mechanic, or even a bank. Use the tool(s) that are best for the job. Apple wins hands down in the design industry.

now - i'm tempted to kick you for your lack of loyalty, but i think your self-inflicted punishment in having moved to windows is enough. i'm curious however why you abandoned your concept of 'getting the job done, with least amount of hassle, with tools that work, etc' at the time you made the decision to switch to windows in the first place? what did that switch cost you in productivity? i'm curious how that experience went over all. in 20 years in the design industry i've never seen anyone willingly go from the mac to windows...
post #114 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidW View Post

The only way this is going to happen is if the third party hardware is a Mac.

SNIP

So imagine this day. In the not so distant future. It's the WWCD. Rumours of a special surpise guest on alll the Apple news sites. Jobs finishes up his keynote and say "and one more thing". Lights dim. Curtains open to reveal a giant Apple logo with the MS color flag imbedded in it. Then the music starts and Steve Balmer entertains the Apple crowd with the long version of a "Monkey Dance". And at the end, Balmer steps up to the podium and yell "I LOVE THIS COMPANY".

SNIP

Don't laugh. How many people here thought they would never see the day when a Mac would run on an Intel processor.

at which point the developers developers developers developers get caught up in the frenzy, pick up their chairs and throw them at the stage...
post #115 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacAloy View Post

With Vista, it is the product

It absolutely blows

It is funny, but I remember the CEO of McDonald's on the company's turnaround saying something like "...we had a think tank that came up with the idea of making good food for a reasonable price. We are trying that out and it is working...", not really his quote, but that was the jist. And MS just came to the similar conclusion that if they make a software that works, people will buy it.
Vista to me is like Windows ME, if any of you had the displeasure of using that POS before Win2K was released. They had to release something so they did, but instead of making people happy, they released Vista, a Win 7 beta that should have never been. If you've d/led Win7, you can see that the beta is stronger, faster, and just overall what they wanted Vista to be.
The point of all that is that the Mac is no longer a competitive tool to Windows in my eyes, it is outright competition to Dell, HP, Asus, Acer, and the like. MS can make all the software they want to compete with OS X, but in the end you can run them both on your Apple computer. Apple has found out that hardware that is compatible with everything will indeed sell more. Smart thinking, for a hardware company.
post #116 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by amerist View Post

They could start by abandoning the expensive and lengthy WHQL certification program and switch to something truly revolutionary.

Unless the environment is truly seamless they still won't scratch the surface of the success Apple has as a result of its integrated architecture.

What Steve B doesn't get is that Apple is a 3rd party manufacturer, too. It's too bad, but if they embraced the Mac, they'd sell more Windows.
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