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Apple already building iPhones at rate of 40 million a year? - Page 2

post #41 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davewrite View Post

The reports of Apple 'sweatshop' conditions some time ago was (as usual) a groundless whack at Apple and Chinese manufacturing.

Allegations were refuted by an investigation. Read the investigation "http://www.apple.com/hotnews/ipodreport/"

Yeah, I'm going to trust Apple on this. They only have a hundred billion dollars riding on the outcome of the investigation.

Quote:
Much less than 'sweatshop' the investigation states: "The campus includes factories, employee housing, banks, a post office, a hospital, supermarkets, and a variety of recreational facilities including soccer fields, a swimming pool, TV lounges and Internet cafes. Ten cafeterias are also located throughout the campus offering a variety of menu choices"

Ten cafeterias to serve the thousands upon thousands of live-in employees. These are labor camps and hardly a "campus" of the Apple Campus style. More like Google, maybe?

Quote:
The investigation found out that "The single largest complaint (approximately 20% of interviewed workers) was the lack of overtime during non-peak periods" i.e. not OVERWORK but 'LACK OF MORE OVERTIME' i.e. they wanted to work MORE!

I think the only thing we can really conclude is the employees would like to EARN MORE, not necessarily work more. 20% isn't a lot, and that complaint is about the safest one an employee could express.


Quote:
I'm not sure if the iPhones are manufactured at the same plant but basically all these 'slave labor' stories especially for high tech manufacturing are overblown. The top end manufacturing plants in china are very sophisticated.

Are they overblown? Are they all overblown? How do you know? How would you like to live and work in a labor camp? If it was the only means of sustenance for you and your family (who live elsewhere), I'm sure you'd appreciate it. And if your answers to interrogation would be scrutinized by your supervisors, I'm sure you'd be ecstatic about the work conditions.
post #42 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post

Automated to what degree? There's a tremendous amount of detailed, manual labor that goes into the manufacture of an iPhone.

No, there isn't. at certain stages, people put circuit boards into the cases, and use an electric screwdriver to fasten them. There are other bits here and there, but most of the work is done by robot.

Most of the labor is involved in getting the materials off the loading docks to where they go in the warehouse and factory, and finishing the packing.

Quote:
How do you know that?

I was a partner in an audio design and manufacturing company for a number of years until we sold it. I know various people in manufacturing.
post #43 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by AjitMD View Post

I hope that is report regarding the ramp-up to rate of 40M/year iPhones is not true. For a hi end company like Apple is important to maintain quality.

As it stands, there are some doubts about the integrity of the case that may cause the case to crack. All these issues need to be addressed. Also, too fast production cause ruin the quality of the supply chain. These are not Croc shoes.

Damaged reputation is difficult to fix... look how long it is taking to fix MobileMe.

The number of devices made each year has nothing to do with the quality. That's a matter of doing things properly. You can make ten a year and have poor quality.
post #44 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by physguy View Post

Is anyone here aware of any concrete quantitative information on so-called 'quality disaster'? By that I mean real percentages? Take the following as an apocryphal example with plausible but made-up numbers.

Assume

phones sold = 2,000,000

white phone (16GB) = 20% => 400,000 white phone sold

Posters posting about cracks => 1,000 (a huge number IMO, remember I'm saying actual posters)

-> 0.25% failure rate quite good overall

Given that a problem phone prompts someone to post whereas a working phone does not and given the apparently huge number of phones that are apparently selling it is not surprising to see 'a lot' of problems posted. This is the bias of the internet in this regard.

So, again I ask, any hard number? Other wise at this point we don't know if Apple has any significant quality issues with the new phones.

I've been saying this for days now, we have NO numbers, so we have no idea as to the true extent of the problem.

It could be from one production run. So we will have a "large" number of people complaining at once—they all bought their phones at about the same time, and encountered the same problems.

This doesn't mean that the problem runs across all production runs. It may, but we don't know that yet, because we don't know the distribution of the problem across time and region.

Last year we had a similar problem with screen cracks. A lot of people were reporting this at once. It turned out to be from one production run, where specs were off on some parts. It actually affected less than 1% of all early production phones, which Apple replaced.
post #45 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post

Yeah, I'm going to trust Apple on this. They only have a hundred billion dollars riding on the outcome of the investigation.


Ten cafeterias to serve the thousands upon thousands of live-in employees. These are labor camps and hardly a "campus" of the Apple Campus style. More like Google, maybe?



I think the only thing we can really conclude is the employees would like to EARN MORE, not necessarily work more. 20% isn't a lot, and that complaint is about the safest one an employee could express.




Are they overblown? Are they all overblown? How do you know? How would you like to live and work in a labor camp? If it was the only means of sustenance for you and your family (who live elsewhere), I'm sure you'd appreciate it. And if your answers to interrogation would be scrutinized by your supervisors, I'm sure you'd be ecstatic about the work conditions.

You statements about this are as lopsided as you're complaining that those statements are. You seem to have some agenda here. What is it?
post #46 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

You statements about this are as lopsided as you're complaining that those statements are.

Prove it. I'm saying you pro-Apple people are commenting from a position of ignorance on the subject of foreign labor. One of the pro-Apple commentators used the term "slave labor," not me. That's a straw man argument, because I think we know they're not slaves. But those are labor camps, no question.

Quote:
You seem to have some agenda here. What is it?

Truth.
post #47 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post

Prove it. I'm saying you pro-Apple people are commenting from a position of ignorance on the subject of foreign labor. One of the pro-Apple commentators used the term "slave labor," not me. That's a straw man argument, because I think we know they're not slaves. But those are labor camps, no question.



I don't have to prove your rantings. You have to prove your rantings.

I'm trying to be rational about this. There has been no evidence to show what you're saying about labor camps.

I'm not saying that these companies run wonderful idyllic factories. That would be naive. But they aren't labor camps either.

This is a country that is trying to become equal to the industrialized countries in a couple of generations, where it took us 200 years to get here. there will be problems. The government over there isn't exactly run by flower children. It's run by a cadre of old men who are most interested in lack of unrest, so that their rule will not be disturbed, as it was in 1989, and couple of less well known times before that.

People over there, just like people over here a hundred years ago, are willing to put up with conditions that we won't put up with any longer, because they are still much better off than they were in the countryside, where most of them came from.

Nevertheless, Chinese factory managers, according to reports, are complaining that rising wages and benefits are costing them so much, that they are opening factories in lower priced markets in Vietnam.

These things are going to run their course, no matter how much people complain about them here.

Until people are willing to pay 50% more than they are paying for their products, or possibly even 100% more, or even 200% more, so that they can be manufactured here, the few complaints about labor practices abroad aren't of any importance.

You'd better learn that, because almost everything you own was made in some factory with labor practices you aren't happy about.


Quote:
Truth.

Bull! You're trying to prove something, and I don't know what.
post #48 of 54
Wow, we seem to have attracted some more angry trolls... an inevitable sign of Apple's success I suppose.

Anyway, I'm loving this... my prediction of 60 million iPhones by end of 2009 is looking pretty solid.
post #49 of 54
Toni Sacconaghi is still looking for 8 million this year. I'm shorting Toni's resume
post #50 of 54
Move the manufacturing plant to Redmond and hire laid-off Microsoft Mobile OS employees.

Start building a "dumb phone" that looks like a iPhone with only a 12 key touch pad running MS Mobile. Design this phone with a simulated crack in it. Then Steve B can't say Apple has a monopoly on phones.

Stock Price: Find out what Al Gore and Martha Stewart are doing and do the same thing.
post #51 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post

Prove it. I'm saying you pro-Apple people are commenting from a position of ignorance on the subject of foreign labor. One of the pro-Apple commentators used the term "slave labor," not me. That's a straw man argument, because I think we know they're not slaves. But those are labor camps, no question.



Truth.


I lived and worked in China for six years - dealing with factories frequently. Depending on what they are making, some can be dumps and others can be very nice. Brick yards are horrible, high-tech factories (and even not so high-tech) that make products for western companies are usually quite nice.

Quick note about recent Chinese History:

Until recently - ten years ago - ALL companies/factories/Banks/Schools/Every company in China - provided housing/cafeterias/ everything for their workers. This is still largely true in the countryside. All the workers for "X" bank live in the same housing complex. Every worker for the the local government of X city live in the same housing complex. They ALL have one exit/entrance for security/safety/keeping an eye on people reasons.

This is the way it's been in China for a long long time - it's not a slave camp or a labor camp or whatever. The Chinese gov't has been doing it this way LONG LONG LONG before any foreign company started buying from factories there.

I mostly can't stand the country - but many of you guys don't really know much about what you're talking about. Oh, wait - you watched 20/20 or nightline once.
post #52 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pachomius View Post

I lived and worked in China for six years - dealing with factories frequently. Depending on what they are making, some can be dumps and others can be very nice. Brick yards are horrible, high-tech factories (and even not so high-tech) that make products for western companies are usually quite nice.

Quick note about recent Chinese History for all those idiots who comment and know nothing:

Until recently - ten years ago - ALL companies/factories/Banks/Schools/Every company in China - provided housing/cafeterias/ everything for their workers. This is still largely true in the countryside. All the workers for "X" bank live in the same housing complex. Every worker for the the local government of X city live in the same housing complex. They ALL have one exit/entrance for security/safety/keeping an eye on people reasons.

This is the way it's been in China for a long long time - it's not a slave camp or a labor camp or whatever. The Chinese gov't has been doing it this way LONG LONG LONG before any foreign company started buying from factories there.

I mostly can't stand the country - but many of you guys don't really know much about what you're talking about. Oh, wait - you watched 20/20 or nightline once.

You make some valid observations.

But there is no need to sound so sanctimonious, Mr. Pachomius! Many people on this forum are smarter and more worldly-aware that you might think yourself to be.
post #53 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post

Prove it. I'm saying you pro-Apple people are commenting from a position of ignorance on the subject of foreign labor. One of the pro-Apple commentators used the term "slave labor," not me. That's a straw man argument, because I think we know they're not slaves. But those are labor camps, no question.



Truth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

You make some valid observations.

But there is no need to sound so sanctimonious, Mr. Pachomius! Many people on this forum are smarter and more worldly-aware that you might think yourself to be.




sorry for the tone, but I'm really really tired of people (mostly politicians) who "know" what's going on in China.

My comment was 95% directed at the guy calling them labor camps - by that standard, the whole country is a labor camp.
post #54 of 54
I have been buying Apple products for years now and LOVE their reliability, stability, and product performance.

- I first bought several iPods for myself and family and they worked for years with very few problems and if the problems occured, they were replaced or fixed to satisfaction by Apple
- I bought a MacBookPro a little more than 2 years ago and to this day it works perfectly with no problems.
- I bought a iMac a few months after the MBP for my upstairs desktop needs and it is an absolute gem of a purchase. Fast, Smooth, and reliable just like the day it first arrived
- I also have bought the original iPhone on launch day and still love it even today

I think the ONLY problem I have had with Apple is MobileMe. That really angered me because I did not sign up for .Me and my .Mac email got screwed up when they started the transfer and I suffered for 2 weeks with basically NO EMAIL.

As long as the 3G is being made to specifications, I am perfectly fine with what they are doing.
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