Apple poised for special event this September - Page 4

Hey, you were the one who asked:

"is this about colour?"

In your first post.

And you were the one who said:

"I just don't get why people always say it has not been redesigned in ages."

In your first post.

All of the following exchanges were to try and answer the first question as:

"no, it's not about colour"

And answer your wonderment by explaining that people say it's the case design that hasn't changed for 5.5 years.

And explain to you that the cosmetic differences you'd listed in your first post were delivered by the aluminium PowerBook G4 in 2003

I've been trying to work this out as well.

I can't figure it out. I was expecting the transition to have happened already!

It was a rhetorical question..

I think your use of the term design (and/or redesign) is what's throwing people.


Your original post has brought us to where we are now because that word is rather vague and obviously, most people interpreted design to mean it's overall enclosure, which hasn't changed in any major degree for nearly 5 years. Many things you listed in that original post were merely enhancements, like the slightly larger trackpad, the slightly better speakers, LED backlighting added to essentially the exact same display.

Similarly, if you were actually talking about the original Titanium PowerBook G4s, you should have made that more apparent.

The maths itself, assuming steady sales and using the exact decimal percentages, indicated the transition starting a week after the financial announcements. So... damn

There are only a few explanations I can think of
1) Apple over estimated the loss deliberately
2) Apple stuffed up and is delayed in releasing their transition products
3) Apple expected HUGE sales in the early weeks of the transitioned product(s).
4) Apple is nervous after the iphone release and mobileme meltdown, and are re-evaluating how they release things
5) Perhaps gross margin isn't what I understand it to be (eg: perhaps if they are making a stockpile of the new products it affects Gross margins already?).

Well I did say the "Original PowerBook G4." However, it was obviously misunderstood.

I think we can rule out 5). I recall the reasoning you posted and it seemed correct to me.

Your other explanations all sound plausible.

I think in order of likelihood, it's either:

• a combination of 1) and 3)
• 2).
• 4).

People like Solsun are why AI needs an "ignore poster" option. Guess I'll just have to train myself to skip over his posts from now on.

And yes, I too am confused as to why the product margins are supposed to decline dramatically this quarter despite no product announcements or price cuts until late September.

My only guess is a massive R&D expenditure for next quarter's announcements or the prepayment on a massive SSD order that had to be paid now.

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...&postcount=116

ooh, those are good explanations.

I am expecting the transition to be iPod touch related, so the SSD purchase-order thing could be it.

Edit:

Having said that, does that affect gross margins? I don't think it does. I think both of those things affect operating margin, not gross margin. Bother.

Yes, but those changes were not all at one time. They were gradual.

I concur, but what I'm curious about is how Air-like the new Pros will be? Are we talking a true scaled up version of the MacBook Air? That'd probably require the dropping of an internal disc drive. While I'd love to see that happen, a great many people wouldn't. If the edges are tapered (they've gotta be, come on!) will a "trap door" of ports like the Air's be mandatory? Seems likely.

The computer everyone seems to be ignoring is the MacBook.

While Apple has been transitioning to aluminum, they use that material to differentiate their premium and high-end Macs (iMac, Mac Pro, MacBook Air, MacBook Pro) from their budget/consumer oriented Macs (Mac Mini, MacBook). It's similar to their use of backlit keyboards on all premium notebooks.

So, to avoid higher production costs and buyer confusion, they'll keep the same polycarbonate material (available in black and white as they are now), but taper the edges, possibly sliming it down a bit overall and/or making it lighter in weight. An LED backlit display is almost a given and an oversized MultiTouch trackpad is nearly as likely. I doubt SSDs, optional or otherwise.

I don't think the design will be tapered. Certainly the internal optical drive won't be dropped and once you start to think about ports, HDDs and optical drives you realise there's not much room for any tapering. Maybe there could be a little bit.

I guess what I'm really expecting is the MacBook form-factor (in aluminium, of course) with the Air's black backlit keyboard.

Don't expect any "miracle" products from Apple, just incrementally improved ones. The consumer market it too risky to play outside the established norms and we've seen Apple making very minor improvements for some time now.

It could also be transitioning the nano to a nano touch..

Take the current nano phatty form factor, remove the click wheel on the bottom half and stretch the screen down.. It would be large enough for a touch device.

But most importantly is the App store. Now that the App Store is up and running and is Apple's gateway to cementing their mobile platform as the future de facto standard by bringing all the 3rd party developers on board, it seems that they will want to get the app store accessible on as many of their mobile devices as possible. And the nano IS Apple's best selling mobile device.

It is possible that a new touch nano could be released before the current quarter ends. And it would likely sell in enough quantities to affect margins for this quarter.

Ok, but the tapered edges of the MacBook Air are what make it stand out, not simply its thinness. If Apple had simply wanted to make a scaled down, rounded-rectangle 13" MacBook Pro, they would have taken the same old case that's been around for nearly five years and done just that. Also, I don't see any major case differences between the MacBook Pro and the MacBook, other than the latter being thicker overall, with a slot-loading disc drive on the side, an indented, unique keyboard and magnetic latch.

I agree about the Air's black backlit keyboard (and I see the magnetic latch, LED backlit screen, and oversized Multi-Touch) coming to the Pro. Care to clarify what makes the MacBook's form-factor all that special? We are talking about what's going to happen to the 15" and 17" MacBook Pros, right?

Ah, but it's all in those little details. The forming of the aluminium, that little indentation you get around the periphery of the keyboard, the keyboard itself, the latching mechanism, the fact you can get to the HDD easily in the MacBook, etc. Those little details all add up to a "sharper", sleeker form-factor for the MacBook (imagining it "aluminiumised") relative to the current MacBook Pro.



The original article does also mention the MacBook. It seems likely given all the rumours that the MacBook is going to go aluminium.

Yeah...I agreed with your assertions about the keyboard 100%. I should have stated that the indention around the keyboard AND the MacBook/Air-like keyboard would NOT be mutually exclusive. In other words, if we're getting that kind of keyboard (which I seriously believe we are) then that keyboard will also be indented just like the MacBook and Air's keyboards are. In an earlier post, I too recognized the likely inclusion of the MacBook/Air's magnetic latch.

Also when you say "the forming of the aluminum," you meant polycarbonate, right? You were describing what makes the current MacBook's case special in this instance, but accidentally mixed in your own prediction about a 13" aluminum MacBook that doesn't exist.

Of course, making these rather superficial changes to the current 15" and 17" MacBook Pro cases and calling it a day is unlikely, but before I touch on my reasonings further down, I'll first repost my predictions for Apple's black and white MacBook, which I think you missed:


Now then...

What rumors? The Aluminum MacBook rumor has been around for a LONG time, but no proof has surfaced recently (nor have I heard any good reasoning behind such a thing).

On the other hand, I certainly have seen the spy shots (below) of what are likely the redesigned MacBook Pros, which feature tapered edges and a removable battery that spans the length of the case, which will (purportedly) give easy access to the hard drive bay similar to what the current black and white MacBooks offer.

I hope that this new MacBook Pro design with its tapered edges allows the display to tilt back further than the current models.

If Apple is really going to get rid of the optical drive in the MacBook they should replace it with an extra port for a graphics card. I would use that extra graphics card a lot more that an optical drive.

Chances of this happening are probably about 0% but it was a nice thought.

My personal take on the design question.

The MacBook and MBP are the equivalent of the Porsche Carrera (in all respects!). You reach a design harmony, and through the years, just tweak it here and there to update the tech inside, and the fashion lines outside (lights, tail, wheel flairs, etc). Perfect design always passes the test of time. A MB or MBP today, that was bought 3, 4, or 5 years ago, or appears in an older film or TV show, still looks sleak and modern... just like a Carrera.

don't leave out the possibility of an iLife '09 release too. i believe '08 was released in early august of 2007.

Curious to hear what all the people here would change in regards to the exterior design?

I'm sitting here looking at my 17" MBP on it's stand while typing this out on my MacPro. Seriously, I don't see a curve or corner out of place. I could see it "possibly" get about 3-4 mm thinner, about 2mm from the bottom portion, and 2-3 from the screen. But that's the absolute minimum, because thinner than that and you won't even be able to plug in an Ethernet jack. The MBA already addresses those that need that "cordless, ultra-thinness".

I've opened my MBP a number of times, and have always been amazed at how everything fits so perfect inside. Again, too much thinner, and you can forget about a standard (cost-effective) hard drive or BluRay.

So again... what from the outside can be improved?

NOTE: I recently received a Dell ad for their new "mini" wannabe. First thing I noticed was how "Apple - Designed in Cal." it wanted to be (the base). Second, take a good look and you'll see it's main design flaw: far too round at the top and bottom. This is a good example of bad asthetic design, since the extreme perfect roundness makes it look fat, rather than "organically" slim, yet sturdy. Also, without opening it, I can bet that the space within the interior curve is wasted... making it a bad industrial design. So basically, the above reason is exactly why a computer (case) designed like this would NEVER see the Apple logo on it. Has nothing to do with MacBooks, I know... but the principles of perfect, form follows function design, certainly do. May I say again, just like a Porsche Carrera.

The only thing I would like to see in the Macbooks is less fan noise.

Only because they skipped iLife 07 altogether.

I expect iLife to get back on its normal yearly schedule with the 09 version at MWSF 09.

Curious why people keep on asking this question when it's been answered so many times.

Have you seen a MacBook or MacBook Air up close? They are not the same as the MacBook Pro.

The keyboard on the MacBook Air is better, the latching mechanism is better, the machining of the aluminium is more precise, and getting to the HDD in a MacBook is easier. (it might be straightforward in the 17" MacBook pro, but it's a nightmare in the 15". In the MacBook you only need remove the battery and undo 3 screws, then the HDD pulls out on a little caddy. No need to remove any bits of casework.)

Which version of the MacBook do you have?

The MacBook Air has a slightly different hinge mechanism. How far back does that go?

Apple tends to roll its own.

They used to have pop out drives. But that was when portables were much larger. As we all know, Apple is all about the "slim".

I just don't like the wasted space around the edges. It moves away from the pure industrial Bauhaus design Apple has been moving toward.

I understand that it's purely for sales reasons, but that's sad, isn't it?

You're talking about the Air? I don't think there is any wasted space around the edges. All the space inside the Air is used. To make the bezels smaller, you'd have to make the Air thicker in order for it to have the same internal volume.

I don't get how tapering the MacBook Pro's edges, replacing its flush keyboard (which makes imprints on the screen, at least on my three year old 15" PowerBook G4) with the indented black keyboard of the Air, and removing the mechanical latch in favor of magnets would result in "wasted space." Tapering the edges will make carrying it under your arm or stuffing it in a bag feel less bulky even if its thickest area in the center remains the same 1".

There's only so much you can do in those thin areas. I doubt very much that there is any circuitry in the last bits.

Sure, I see what you're saying, but until they do something more radical, like dropping the internal SuperDrive entirely, we aren't going to see major slimming down of the MacBook Pro's 1" thickness. While rounded rectangles are nice, they do feel bulkier. Remember, the original iPhone was a rounded rectangle and was actually a bit thinner at its thickest point than the new iPhone 3G at its thickest point. But the 3G's tapered edges make it feel thinner than the original.

Another good example of how form-factor can affect the overall feel of something is the MacBook vs. the MacBook Pro. Both are rather similar in terms of design: rounded rectangles. The MacBook is 0.4 lbs. lighter than the 15" MacBook Pro...but which one feels lighter? The MacBook Pro. The Pro spreads out its weight very well, while the MacBook can't, due to its smaller case and what Apple packs into that.

Tapering the edges may not reduce weight much, if at all, BUT it does spread out the weight better, making it feel lighter. The iPhone 3G feels lighter, the MacBook Air seems so amazingly thin thanks to more than just its weight and central depth, and the fairly new aluminum iMacs look thinner thanks to...a curved back (and the black matte probably doesn't hurt).

Just bring on a 10- 12" laptop to compete with the Sony Vaio TZ. The Macbook air is still too big even though it's light and thin - it's the same footprint as a MacBook?
It don't fit in my man-purse!

http://www.macconnection.com/IPA/Sho...tm?sku=8252894

manufacturer rebate for MacBook? is it common or sign of close out deal?

all points to new Mac Book, the sooner the better

Agreed, the existing MBP design is quite excellent; there is a reason there has been no major case redesign since the G4 PBs. However said design is by definition dated, so it is time to change the visuals from a marketing standpoint. And after 5 years or so there are bound to be cost reduction ideas that have been generated within Appple and Apple's subcontractors.

Also it is time for some major engineering changes: hopefully 8 GB or more of RAM, and optional dual internal mass storage devices (big plus for image pros). Those major internal changes interrelate with case design.

As for MBs, IMO the visual design has not been ideal so there is room to improve.

-Allen Wicks

I'm very keen to see an Apple take on Nettop/ULC Laptop. I think the Air is a fantastic product and an important part of the product matrix (And let me make this clear, the Air is a portable iMac), but it does leave us with a problem.

The Air is the portable iMac, as I've said. That makes the MacBook the entry-level Mac notebook, the portable Mac mini. That's flagrantly wrong. Apple is missing a cheaper notebook, a MacBook mini if you will. The current trend towards such devices gives Apple a perfect oppurtunity to make such a device. The components are now fairly commodity but Apple can leverage their iPod line's massive use of Flash and iPod classic's HDD to make those components even cheaper (Economies of scale).

Thus, Apple can compete on price, or else make the device more desirable (Easy enough for them) and charge a premium (I can see it starting at the same prices as the Mac mini or nominally, say $50, more)

This same product matrix issue solution creates another problem which has finally brought me around to the "xMac" standpoint. The MacBook would have no desktop equivalent. As such, Apple would be wise to introduce a headless Mac with some expandability. Likely this would just be an iMac without a display, just the MacBook is very similar to iMac's portable cousin MacBook Air

I should also add: I would buy the Apple 10" notebook to replace my Eee PC. A teeny laptop with the power of OS X is too much to resist.

Mac OS X will not turn an under powered sub-notebook into a useable and profitable mini MacBook, nor earn it the popularity that Apple's iPhone/iPod touch mobile WiFi platform already has.

Could a MB or MBP be made with the same material as the clear plastic / lucite on the G4 tower and other towers? I like that material. It always looks new and clean, and it doesn't dent easily. I guess it would be heavier than the existing plastic.

Isn't the shift from titanium to alumin(i)um a backward movement? I thought titanium was a stronger metal.