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Apple poised for special event this September - Page 2

post #41 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualZone View Post

Why the rush? Just kidding!!

I'm still very happy with my G4. I've maxed out the ram, added a bigger hard drive and if I need Microsoft Windows it has VirtualPC for the Mac w/XP Pro. The only thing I could think of if I want to whine is it will need soon is a new battery. Right now I'm getting about 1 1/2 to 2 hours of charge time.

Ive been waiting to buy a new machine for a while. I retired a few years ago, so I don't NEED a new machine...

I've decided to wait for the Nehalem. I'd like it to get here.
post #42 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

Thats definitely not a 2003 Powerbook G4. The original PowerBook G4's (titanium) had black keyboards, plus Garageband didn't exist in 2003.

At any rate, I understand that the color has always been the same, but everything else has changed. It has been redesigned many times.

You are completely missing the point, as if we all passed you over at Ludicrous Speed while you're standing still.

The changes to the appearance are almost insignificant - and that's the complaint when someone says it "hasn't been redesigned". There are two major divisions in design, there's aesthetic design and there's engineering design. Your thinking is on a rail on the engineering design and features but that track doesn't doesn't appear to let you consider the aesthetic design. The corners, edge trim, keyboard, buttons trackpad size, speaker grills, ports and slots are generally the same as the original aluminum PowerBook. The connections and dimensions changed, but most people wouldn't notice that just by looking at it, because it uses pretty much the same aesthetic design.

Personally, I like the current design, and I don't really want to see it change, but I think anyone who isn't kidding themselves would at least acknowledge that the overall aesthetic design hasn't changed in five years.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan3089 View Post

Finally, a realistic, reasonable set of predictions from an analyst. Not saying his words are golden, but at least he didn't propose anything radical, like so many others in his profession... We shall see!

Question: Does Apple usually announce these types of events? If so, typically how many weeks beforehand?

About a week before hand, everyone that's invited usually gets a postcard with an image and a phrase that vaguely suggests what the event is about without actually saying what the event is about, or showing the new product.
post #43 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

Thats definitely not a 2003 Powerbook G4.

It sure is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

The original PowerBook G4's (titanium) had black keyboards

That's true. But the PowerBook G4 Titanium was launched in 2001


Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

At any rate, I understand that the color has always been the same, but everything else has changed. It has been redesigned many times.

Not at all. The form factor has changed very little since the transition from Titanium to Aluminium.

Here's a list of all the form-factor-related things that you said have changed, but actually haven't:

Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

New Keyboard design
New Trackpad [Mr. H: yes, the functionality has improved, but the form-factor is the same]
Backlight Keyboard added
New Speakers and placement
Firewire 800 port [Mr. H: The aluminium PowerBook G4 had one, then the first 15.4" MacBook Pro didn't have one, then the next update brought it back]
Slimmer enclosure. [Mr. H: this is true, but it was only by about 0.01" or something]
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post #44 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaple View Post

Because if it was removable, it wouldn't be slot-loading, and Apple is in love with slot-loading disc drives.

Can you blame them? Slot-loaders are so much better

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post #45 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaple View Post

Because if it was removable, it wouldn't be slot-loading, and Apple is in love with slot-loading disc drives.

I don't think those two features are mutually exclusive in the slightest degree.
post #46 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

You are completely missing the point, as if we all passed you over at Ludicrous Speed while you're standing still.

The changes to the appearance are almost insignificant - and that's the complaint when someone says it "hasn't been redesigned".

.

I'm not missing any point. I'm just stating that every single aspect of the machine has changed numerous times except for the color.. That means it has been redesigned..

Apart from being much thinner and tapered edges, the MacBook Air looks basically the same as a MacBook Pro. That doesn't mean it is not a completely different redesigned machine.

People need to understand that a redesign is more than going from silver to black. I'd take a component redesign over a color or cosmetic change any day.
post #47 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

They could make a smaller touch.

And I think this would be a good idea, but I don't think that's what Galley and shanmugam are insinuating.
post #48 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

I'm not missing any point. I'm just stating that every single aspect of the machine has changed numerous times except for the color.. That means it has been redesigned..

Apart from being much thinner and tapered edges, the MacBook Air looks basically the same as a MacBook Pro. That doesn't mean it is not a completely different redesigned machine.

People need to understand that a redesign is more than going from silver to black. I'd take a component redesign over a color or cosmetic change any day.

We're talking about one thing, and you're out there by yourself, talking about another.

No one has disagreed that there have been many changes inside.

It's just that when a device is described as having undergone a re-design, it usually means that the re-design is external.

Not always the situation, but it's what we're talking about.

Get on the same page.
post #49 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denton View Post

As with Galley, I suspect you don't understand why people buy Nanos -- for many (majority?) it's not the price.

Yep, no way they kill the nano--too good for working out, travel, etc. I could see them eventually making it touch, but probably not this year...too many new things going on and I think we'd have heard more about by now.

I don't think they'll kill the 8GB touch, either...they really want to get their OSX Touch platform established and the 8GB touch is the cheapest way for them to do that sans iPhone. They could bump down the prices and maybe introduce a 64GB Touch:

1GB Shuffle $49
2GB Shuffle $69
4GB Nano $129
8GB Nano $179
8GB Touch $249
16GB Touch $349
32GB Touch $449
64GB Touch (maybe?) $549

A Touch nano down the road could squeeze into the $199 range and cancel out the regular 8GB Nano...
post #50 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

It sure is.



That's true. But the PowerBook G4 Titanium was launched in 2001




Not at all. The form factor has changed very little since the transition from Titanium to Aluminium.

Here's a list of all the form-factor-related things that you said have changed, but actually haven't:


Nope your wrong... Look at the GarageBand icon in the dock.. As I said, GarageBand DID NOT EXIST in 2003.

Your wrong about the trackpad and keyboard too.. I have both a titanium PowerBook and a MBP. The keyboard is different and the current trackpad is bigger in addition to having multitouch.
post #51 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denton View Post

And I think this would be a good idea, but I don't think that's what Galley and shanmugam are insinuating.

That's the way I read it. He'll have to explain it himself.
post #52 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by ouragan View Post

BTW, the fact that Apple stock is held by hedge funds should be worrisome to long term investors and anyone interested in the development of the Mac OS X platform, as we all know that hedge fund managers are there for a quick profit. Beware of the day when they drop the stock for a more profitable "investment".



I checked up on the hedge funds that may be invested in Apple. I could not find one that was listed in the top Institutional or Mutual Fund listings for Apple shareholders and a complete listing found here: http://finance.yahoo.com/q/mh?s=AAPL
I compared the list of the top 100 hedge funds and not one was listed as a shareholder. Of all the current big shareholder, the maximum is 4.11% by Barclays Global Investors UK Holdings Ltd and the maximum Mutual Fund is 1.29% by Growth Fund of America Inc. They are a long term capital growth fund which doesn't do the quick buying and selling. They also are regulated by Wall Street. Hedge funds are not regulated and have many hidden assets they don't have to declare. Hence their investments are much more risky.
So, I will always believe that AAPL is a great investment for the long term. And now that the iPhone sales are being further expanded to more countries on Aug. 22 and even more by the end of the year, these sales along with the new MB, MBP, and iPods should greatly increase the bottom line for AAPL in the coming year.
post #53 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by RolandG View Post

IMO, the MacBook's and the MacBook Pro's design is near perfect. Sleek, no unnecessary fuss, quality materials, clever details. What do you think could be optimized?

It's a nice design, but if you look at Apple's most recent products and product revisions, all of them feature similar traits. What do the new aluminum iMac, MacBook Air and iPhone 3G have in common? Tapered edges and in general, each is thinner overall. Remember, the white iMacs were rounded rectangles just as the original iPhone was.

Obviously Jobs and Co. have realized that simply making things thinner isn't as impressive as also making them feel considerably more sleek in the hand or a bag.

Aluminum is also another transition - the main reason Apple dropped the original iPhone's aluminum back for the 3G's plastic was to improve 3G reception, lower the weight, and cut costs. Most of their Macs (and the Apple TV) are either entirely aluminum or have aluminum accents (the Mac Mini, for instance). The MacBook is the main exception and while Apple is moving towards aluminum, they also use different materials to differentiate their consumer Macs from their Pro machines; the iMac last year finally went aluminum because it could rival a base Mac Pro in terms of performance.

The MacBook is likely to remain a consumer-oriented laptop in terms of price and performance, so while they could add tapered edges, the white and black polycarbonate plastic is likely to stay. It probably won't have a backlit keyboard, which is another staple of their premium notebooks (the iMac's new aluminum keyboard likely doesn't use backlighting because the iMac's large 20"-24" screen illuminates the keys well enough and people generally have a light on when using a desktop computer).
False comparisons do not a valid argument make.
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post #54 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by shanmugam View Post

My Predictions
------------------
Alu MacBooks
13" & 15"

A 15" MacBook...interesting idea, but Apple would probably price it a couple hundred above the 13" model (like they did with the 12"/14" iBooks & now 15/17" MBPs)...so it would cost ~$1699. That would be a lot compared with a 13" model or with comparable PCs. Also, with a $400 price difference, I'm sure that Apple would like the ability to easily upsell people to a MacBook Pro. I would imagine many people who purchase the base MBP do so for the larger screen. Great idea (I would like a 15" MB), but I wouldn't hold my breath for one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

Thats definitely not a 2003 Powerbook G4. The original PowerBook G4's (titanium) had black keyboards, plus Garageband didn't exist in 2003.

At any rate, I understand that the color has always been the same, but everything else has changed. It has been redesigned many times.

The original PowerBook G4 (titanium) debuted in 2001..the aluminum PB pictured debuted in 2003. Garageband was introduced at MacWorld 2004. I stand to be corrected, but I don't believe there were any superficial changes to the aluminum PB G4 between its intro in 2003 until it was discontinued in 2006 (the same way there has yet to be any superficial changes to the MBP line since its intro in 2006). So the photo, I believe, is a correct depiction of the PB G4 model which debuted in 2003.
post #55 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

We're talking about one thing, and you're out there by yourself, talking about another.

No one has disagreed that there have been many changes inside.

It's just that when a device is described as having undergone a re-design, it usually means that the re-design is external.

Not always the situation, but it's what we're talking about.

Get on the same page.

I understand what you're saying very well. Same book, same page.

I'm just arguing the point. A redesign is more than a color or cosmetic change. And although it's been slight, the form factor has also changed.
post #56 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

I'm not missing any point. I'm just stating that every single aspect of the machine has changed numerous times except for the color.. That means it has been redesigned..

Apart from being much thinner and tapered edges, the MacBook Air looks basically the same as a MacBook Pro. That doesn't mean it is not a completely different redesigned machine.

People need to understand that a redesign is more than going from silver to black. I'd take a component redesign over a color or cosmetic change any day.

You really are missing the point. The thread's moving pretty quickly so you might have missed my earlier post here.

The MacBook Air's form-factor is completely different from that of the MacBook Pro's. It does not "look basically the same as a MacBook Pro" to anywhere near the degree that a MacBook Pro looks basically the same as the aluminium PowerBook G4. The differences between aluminium PowerBook G4 and MacBook Pro are vanishingly minor, the differences between MacBook Pro and MacBook Air are major.
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post #57 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I don't think those two features are mutually exclusive in the slightest degree.

Really? There's such thing as a relatively easy to remove slot-loading drive (easy as in a knowledgeable consumer could do so with ease)? News to me...but I'm just a consumer. \
post #58 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

Nope your wrong... Look at the GarageBand icon in the dock.. As I said, GarageBand DID NOT EXIST in 2003.

Your wrong about the trackpad and keyboard too.. I have both a titanium PowerBook and a MBP. The keyboard is different and the current trackpad is bigger in addition to having multitouch.

AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHGGHGHGHGHGHGH

Why are you being so dense?

The Titanium PowerBook G4 is completely different from the MacBook Pro. No one is disputing that.

But you appear to have entirely forgotten that there was an aluminium PowerBook G4 and it looked exactly the same as a MacBook Pro.
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post #59 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by AHeneen View Post

A 15" MacBook...interesting idea, but Apple would probably price it a couple hundred above the 13" model (like they did with the 12"/14" iBooks & now 15/17" MBPs)...so it would cost ~$1699. That would be a lot compared with a 13" model or with comparable PCs. Also, with a $400 price difference, I'm sure that Apple would like the ability to easily upsell people to a MacBook Pro. I would imagine many people who purchase the base MBP do so for the larger screen. Great idea (I would like a 15" MB), but I wouldn't hold my breath for one.

i think with iPhone selling like a hot cake and app store, iTunes store, iPods i think APPLE will re-price their entire notebook line (this is the moment to get Mac to everyone not couple of year later). NOW is the time.

i think apple will make very good NetBook as well (aka mini laptops) when price, compoenent and technology is rite.

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Nov '09 | iMac 21.5" C2D 3.06 Ghz | Intel 330 240GB SSD | ATI

Sep '12| Toshiba 14" 1366 x 768! | i5 3rd Gen 6GB| Intel x25-m 120GB SSD | Win 7|  Viewsonic VX2255wmb 22" LCD
iPhone 4S| iPad 2 wifi

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post #60 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

I understand what you're saying very well. Same book, same page.

I'm just arguing the point. A redesign is more than a color or cosmetic change. And although it's been slight, the form factor has also changed.

We know that!

But, it's not what we're talking about.

The question of Apple's enclosure changes has always been a point of speculation. That's aside from what will go inside. Small changes, such as trackpad sizes and even keyboard differences don't count here. We are talking about the external casebefore you open the thing up. And there, Apple has made no real design change. Slightly different sizing to accommodate a slightly bigger display doesn't count. Therefore, both the 15 and 17 have the same design case.
post #61 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

I understand what you're saying very well. Same book, same page.

We might not even be in the same library. You're looking at the engineer's bookshelf, and everyone else is looking at the artist's bookshelf.

Quote:
I'm just arguing the point. A redesign is more than a color or cosmetic change. And although it's been slight, the form factor has also changed.

That's basically arguing just to be argumentative. You're completely refusing to address the root cause of why people complain about the lack of a redesign. You may know the words, but you really are trying as hard as you can to avoid the intent behind them.
post #62 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHGGHGHGHGHGHGH

Why are you being so dense?

.

Why are you?

It's a simple point that's not hard to understand.. A redesign can be more than looks alone.
post #63 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaple View Post

Really? There's such thing as a relatively easy to remove slot-loading drive (easy as in a knowledgeable consumer could do so with ease)? News to me...but I'm just a consumer. \

Sure it can. Removable drives used to have a button on the side of them. Push the button, and the drive popped out a bit, so that you could pull it out.
post #64 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

Apart from being much thinner and tapered edges, the MacBook Air looks basically the same as a MacBook Pro. That doesn't mean it is not a completely different redesigned machine.

The MBA looks significantly different than the MBP. Its heritage is obvious, but it is quite different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

People need to understand that a redesign is more than going from silver to black. I'd take a component redesign over a color or cosmetic change any day.

I would suspect that for a majority of users, a computer must satisfy the minimum requirements for usability (in most cases, this means that it can browse the internet, store photos, and run a word processor), and then people will buy based on looks and price. A case re-design is far more useful to most people who could care less whether Apple replaces FW400 with FW800.
post #65 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

Why are you?

It's a simple point that's not hard to understand.. A redesign can be more than looks alone.

But, it's NOT what the discussion is about.
post #66 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

We know that!

But, it's not what we're talking about.

The question of Apple's enclosure changes has always been a point of speculation. That's aside from what will go inside. Small changes, such as trackpad sizes and even keyboard differences don't count here. We are talking about the external casebefore you open the thing up. And there, Apple has made no real design change. Slightly different sizing to accommodate a slightly bigger display doesn't count. Therefore, both the 15 and 17 have the same design case.


So according to what you say if Apple started selling a black or red MacBook Pro, it would be considering a design change. But changing the type of display, processor, expansion slots, trackpad, keyboard, ports and adding a built in camera are not?
post #67 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

...The original PowerBook G4's (titanium) had black keyboards...

That's true. But the PowerBook G4 Titanium was launched in 2001



Well fancy that! I would have sworn it had a metal keyboard too, but you're absolutely right.

I bought a TiBook the day they were launched and it's still my favourite machine ever, but I've had such a long succession of MacBook Pro's since then I've forgotten. Thanks for reminding me.
post #68 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

But, it's NOT what the discussion is about.

That's what my post that everyone is commenting on is about.
post #69 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

Nope your wrong... Look at the GarageBand icon in the dock.. As I said, GarageBand DID NOT EXIST in 2003.

Your wrong about the trackpad and keyboard too.. I have both a titanium PowerBook and a MBP. The keyboard is different and the current trackpad is bigger in addition to having multitouch.

The MacBook Air is an example of a design change, not keyboards, software, and trackpads. PowerBooks and MacBook Pros look the same as they have for years.
post #70 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaple View Post

Really? There's such thing as a relatively easy to remove slot-loading drive (easy as in a knowledgeable consumer could do so with ease)? News to me...but I'm just a consumer. \

I don't know if one is out there, but that doesn't mean it can't be easily done. I thought about doing it once, just to do it. It's the exact same kind of drive module as the tray loaders in terms of the hotplug and screw points, all it needs is rails and a slotted face plate. Tray loaders also have their own faceplate designed to match the notebook's shape.
post #71 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

So according to what you say if Apple started selling a black or red MacBook Pro, it would be considering a design change. But changing the type of display, processor, expansion slots, trackpad, keyboard, ports and adding a built in camera are not?

The problem here is that you're not paying attention to what we're saying.

I've now said, two times, that design changes can be internal. But I've also said, as have others here, that it isn't what we're talking about.

There have been, and will continue to be, many threads about what Apple will do to the internals.

This is not one of them.
post #72 of 312
Here's a history lesson for Solsun:

In January 2001, Apple launched the Titanium PowerBook G4.

In January 2003, Apple launched the 12" and 17" PowerBook G4s, and they were made of aluminium.

Everyone wondered: "When will Apple update the 15" PowerBook form-factor to make it look like the 12" and 17" versions, and be made out of aluminium?"

In September 2003, Apple finally updated the 15" PowerBook, transitioning it from titanium to aluminium.

The 15" MacBook Pro and 17" MacBook Pro have essentially the same form-factor as the aluminium PowerBook G4 and 17" aluminium G4, including the backlit keyboard design and touchpad dimensions.
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post #73 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

That's what my post that everyone is commenting on is about.

Everyone is commenting on your post to tell you that it isn't what we're talking about.
post #74 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhowarth View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H

...The original PowerBook G4's (titanium) had black keyboards...

Well fancy that! I would have sworn it had a metal keyboard too, but you're absolutely right.

I bought a TiBook the day they were launched and it's still my favourite machine ever, but I've had such a long succession of MacBook Pro's since then I've forgotten. Thanks for reminding me.

Just a nit-pick, but you've quoted me as saying "the original PowerBook G4's...", it wasn't me who wrote that; I was quoting someone else, and they have an apostrophe that shouldn't be there.
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post #75 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Everyone is commenting on your post to tell you that it isn't what we're talking about.

Well than maybe you should read it again.. My point from the very beginning is that a redesign is much more than cosmetic.
post #76 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

Why are you?

It's a simple point that's not hard to understand.. A redesign can be more than looks alone.

Oh for fuck's sake.

You are saying that the MacBook Pro looks different to the aluminium PowerBook G4 and we are telling you that you are wrong.

The aluminium PowerBook G4 was launched at the end of 2003 and the MacBook Pro looks exactly the same.
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post #77 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Sure it can. Removable drives used to have a button on the side of them. Push the button, and the drive popped out a bit, so that you could pull it out.

Most posters here are not naive enough to ignore that something like UltraBay exists. There aren't, however, slotloading drives like that. They are a bit more sensitive to handle and a modular one would add significant thickness.
post #78 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

When he says "same design," is he referring to the same color? Because the design of the MacBook Pro has completely changed since the PowerBook G4.

It has not completely changed. The case is practically identical and that's all that matters.

EDIT: Didn't realize everyone had already piled on Solsun. He has no idea what he's talking about. The MBP looks identical to the Aluminium Powerbook G4 and is in desperate need of a redesign.
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post #79 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

Oh for fuck's sake.

You are saying that the MacBook Pro looks different to the aluminium PowerBook G4 and we are telling you that you are wrong.

The aluminium PowerBook G4 was launched at the end of 2003 and the MacBook Pro looks exactly the same.


You can tell me I'm wrong all you want but it's a moot point since I never once said anything about looks.

All I said (repeatedly,) is that a redesign is more than cosmetic. And yes, there have been minor cosmetic changes.
post #80 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

Well than maybe you should read it again.. My point from the very beginning is that a redesign is much more than cosmetic.

What we're saying is that other than the cosmetic (and, of course, practical) redesign of the case, the thread isn't interested.

A case serves two functions.

One is to house the components is such a way as to make them as accessible and protected, as can be.

Two is to make the product as attractive as can be.

That's what we're talking about.

You are talking about what's inside the case, the electronic and mechanical upgrades internal to the design. Other than how they reflect what a new design case can be, they aren't the subject of this discussion.
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