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Apple poised for special event this September - Page 3

post #81 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

You can tell me I'm wrong all you want but it's a moot point since I never once said anything about looks.

All I said (repeatedly,) is that a redesign is more than cosmetic. And yes, there have been minor cosmetic changes.

In this post:

You said the MacBook Pro has a "New Keyboard design", it doesn't. You said the MacBook Pro has a "New Trackpad", it doesn't (form-factor wise); you said the MacBook Pro added the "Backlight Keyboard"; it didn't; you said the MacBook Pro had "New Speakers and placement", it didn't; you said the MacBook Pro added a "Firewire 800 port", it didn't, in fact, the first MacBook Pro took it away and then it was added back later. You said the MacBook Pro had a "Slimmer enclosure.", whilst this is true, it was only by about 0.01" or something like that.
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post #82 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

So according to what you say if Apple started selling a black or red MacBook Pro, it would be considering a design change.

That's an example of a COSMETIC change. Obviously no one thought the product (RED) iPods were completely new iPods. But the move from iPod nano "gum-stick" to iPod nano "fatty" was a MAJOR change. It offered a very different form factor with improved internal components and a larger screen.

Changing the MacBook/Pro's hardware enclosure from the current rounded-rectangle to the Air's tapered edges and overall much thinner design would NOT be superficial by any stretch of the imagination. It would impact weight, bulk, and the internal components that could be used.

Do you really consider a move from a 2.2GHz to 3.0GHz processor a "redesign?" Even if they moved to the new Centrino 2, we wouldn't see any serious performance improvements.

Now, when custom PA Semi chips find their way into Intel Macs running Snow Leopard, yeah, we'll see a major change.
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post #83 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensign Pulver View Post

It has not completely changed. The case is practically identical and that's all that matters.

EDIT: Didn't realize everyone had already piled on Solsun. He has no idea what he's talking about. The MBP looks identical to the Aluminium Powerbook G4 and is in desperate need of a redesign.

Except that Solsun NEVER SAID they looked completely different. What Solsun DID SAY is that nearly every single component or aspect apart from the color has changed. And that qualifies as a redesign.
post #84 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

What we're saying is that other than the cosmetic (and, of course, practical) redesign of the case, the thread isn't interested.

A case serves two functions.

One is to house the components is such a way as to make them as accessible and protected, as can be.

Two is to make the product as attractive as can be.

That's what we're talking about.

You are talking about what's inside the case, the electronic and mechanical upgrades internal to the design. Other than how they reflect what a new design case can be, they aren't the subject of this discussion.

Can't put it any better than Melgross.

We're talking about the fact that since the end of 2003, the design of the case
has changed very very little.

No-one is disputing that the internals have changed. Of course they've changed! Apple would have gone down the toilet if they were still trying to sell computers from 2003 today.

Yes, the MacBook Pro is faster. Yes it's had new CPUs and new RAM and new Motherboard and new this and new that. But the case has not changed significantly since 2003.
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post #85 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

In this post:

You said the MacBook Pro has a "New Keyboard design", it doesn't. You said the MacBook Pro has a "New Trackpad", it doesn't (form-factor wise); you said the MacBook Pro added the "Backlight Keyboard"; it didn't; you said the MacBook Pro had "New Speakers and placement", it didn't; you said the MacBook Pro added a "Firewire 800 port", it didn't, in fact, the first MacBook Pro took it away and then it was added back later. You said the MacBook Pro had a "Slimmer enclosure.", whilst this is true, it was only by about 0.01" or something like that.


From the original PowerBook G4. They sure do.
post #86 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

Except that Solsun NEVER SAID they looked completely different. What Solsun DID SAY is that nearly every single component or aspect apart from the color has changed. And that qualifies as a redesign.

The problem is that you are wrong that the only thing that hasn't changed is the colour. The entirety of the external enclosure is almost exactly the same as the Aluminium PowerBook G4 that came out in september 2003.
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post #87 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

Can't put it any better than Melgross.

We're talking about the fact that since the end of 2003, the design of the case
has changed very very little.

No-one is disputing that the internals have changed. Of course they've changed! Apple would have gone down the toilet if they were still trying to sell computers from 2003 today.

Yes, the MacBook Pro is faster. Yes it's had new CPUs and new RAM and new Motherboard and new this and new that. But the case has not changed significantly since 2003.

And not in any of my posts did I say that it did..

How exactly is everyone translating "a redesign is more than cosmetic" into "the case has totally changed?."
post #88 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

From the original PowerBook G4. They sure do.

Oh jesus. We're not talking about differences from the original PowerBook G4. We are talking about difference from the aluminium PowerBook G4 that came out in september 2003. We're talking about the form-factor being five years old, not seven years old.

If we were claiming the form-factor was seven years old, then we'd be wrong and you'd be right. But we are claiming the form factor is five years old, making us right and you wrong.

Will you please acknowledge that Apple released a 15" PowerBook G4 made out of aluminium in september 2003.
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post #89 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

You can tell me I'm wrong all you want but it's a moot point since I never once said anything about looks.

All I said (repeatedly,) is that a redesign is more than cosmetic. And yes, there have been minor cosmetic changes.

Knock, knock, anybody home? This thread IS about appearance! Move along now, nothing for you to see here.
post #90 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

Oh jesus. We're not talking about diffences from the original PowerBook G4.

READ MY FIRST FRICKIN POST.

When I originally listed all the changes I said from "THE ORIGINAL POWERBOOK G4"
post #91 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

How exactly is everyone translating "a redesign is more than cosmetic" into "the case has totally changed?."

We're not.

Some of the things that you've claimed have changed are form-factor related i.e., they are part of the design of the case.

In claiming that they have been redesigned, you are claiming that the case has been redesigned and we are telling you that you are wrong.
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post #92 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Ive been waiting to buy a new machine for a while. I retired a few years ago, so I don't NEED a new machine...

I've decided to wait for the Nehalem. I'd like it to get here.

I just hit the big 50 this year so I'm getting there. Although it'll be a few years before I retire. Just kidding again. It's only as old as you feel they say and I feel pretty damn good. Wahooooo!! Hope you're enjoying your retirement. Anyways, I did upgrade to a new iMac this year so it's not that I'm cheap and I did buy an iPod Touch for myself at Christmas too. Eventually I'll get a new MacBook and at that time I'm hoping touch will be more prominent in them. One more thing about my PowerBook G4, the bottom never gets too warm.
post #93 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

We're not.

Some of the things that you've claimed have changed are form-factor related i.e., they are part of the design of the case.

In claiming that they have been redesigned, you are claiming that the case has been redesigned and we are telling you that you are wrong.

Mr H. will you please read my first post.

EDIT: (It's on page 1, post #8)
post #94 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by probably View Post

Most posters here are not naive enough to ignore that something like UltraBay exists. There aren't, however, slotloading drives like that. They are a bit more sensitive to handle and a modular one would add significant thickness.

I wasn't responding to MOST posters, I was responding to aapl. Why are you mentioning most posters?

And just why are they more sensitive to handle? They are LESS sensitive to handle, not more.
post #95 of 312
I have the original aluminum 15" PB G4 that I bought in September, 2003, and the current MBP looks about the same. It'd be nice to have a new design for a change and I plan to buy it. My PB won't recognize the AirPort Extreme card so I'm using the MacBook I got for my wife for Christmas.

I'd love it if the new MBP uses a design similar to the MBA, only plumper. I'd sure like to know what Apple would use instead of Montevina. The new, higher freq Penryn chips would still be used. I'd also like to know what sort of GPU would be used. Can't wait!

Hey, a glass multitouch trackpad would be cool. I came up with a design for that some months ago:

post #96 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

READ MY FIRST FRICKIN POST.

When I originally listed all the changes I said from "THE ORIGINAL POWERBOOK G4"

The problem is that the article is talking about the aluminum PBG4, not the original PBG4.
post #97 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualZone View Post

I just hit the big 50 this year so I'm getting there. Although it'll be a few years before I retire. Just kidding again. It's only as old as you feel they say and I feel pretty damn good. Wahooooo!! Hope you're enjoying your retirement. Anyways, I did upgrade to a new iMac this year so it's not that I'm cheap and I did buy an iPod Touch for myself at Christmas too. Eventually I'll get a new MacBook and at that time I'm hoping touch will be more prominent in them. One more thing about my PowerBook G4, the bottom never gets too warm.

Well, I'm not that old. I'll be 59 in November. I retired when I was 54. So you can make it soon.
post #98 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

Mr H. will you please read my first post.

EDIT: (It's on page 1, post #8)

Yes, but it's not what the article, or the discussion, is about. And you keep pushing cpu's etc.
post #99 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Yes, but it's not what the article, or the discussion, is about. And you keep pushing cpu's etc.


This discussion is mainly about my original post. And in that post, I clearly listed all the changes that have been made since "THE ORIGINAL POWERBOOK G4." Make of that what you will.
post #100 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Well, I'm not that old. I'll be 59 in November. I retired when I was 54. So you can make it soon.

That's why I was careful on how I worded things. I'm not too sure when I'll retire. I think it'll be when my body tells me. I love my job but I'm not married to it.
post #101 of 312
Yes the Macbook Pro has man new features which are under the hood, but when people say that nothing has changed they are referring to the case and keyboard design. It has been the same design (MINOR changes) for the last few years.


Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

When he says "same design," is he referring to the same color? Because the design of the MacBook Pro has completely changed since the PowerBook G4.

Just a few changes..

New Processors,
New Motherboard design,
New RAM,
New Keyboard design,
LED displays,
New Trackpad with MultiTouch,
iSight Camera added,
Magsafe connector added,
Backlight Keyboard added,
New Speakers and placement,
New Wi-FI 802.11n,
Bluetooth 2.1 added,
Firewire 800 port,
PCI express slot added,
Slimmer enclosure.

Basically, the only thing that has not changed since the original PowerBook G4 is the color.

I just don't get why people always say it has not been redesigned in ages.
post #102 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I wasn't responding to MOST posters, I was responding to aapl. Why are you mentioning most posters?

And just why are they more sensitive to handle? They are LESS sensitive to handle, not more.

I know that removable drives exist...I'm typing on a Dell laptop that has one like you describe (push a little button on the side of it that allows you to pull the whole drive out. I was wondering if easily removable slot loading drives (not tray loading) exist. From what I've seen of the ultrabay, it isn't slot loading.

Not that important...just want to clarify that I'm not a bonehead.
post #103 of 312
And back to the special event...

So, do you think they will combine the Mac announcements with the iPod refresh or keep them separate? I tend to think they will do them together...seems like a waste to do two that close together.

Also, which Tuesday? My money's on September 23rd.
post #104 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

READ MY FIRST FRICKIN POST.

When I originally listed all the changes I said from "THE ORIGINAL POWERBOOK G4"

Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

Mr H. will you please read my first post.

EDIT: (It's on page 1, post #8)

OK. I did read it again.

Maybe we are about to reach a breakthrough. I don't know; let's hope so and then we can all move on.

You started your post by saying:

Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

When he says "same design," is he referring to the same color? Because the design of the MacBook Pro has completely changed since the PowerBook G4.

What we've been trying to do here is answer that first question that you asked. And the answer is: "no, he's not referring to just the colour". He's referring to the overall form-factor, which hasn't changed since the aluminium PowerBook G4. The 17" aluminium PowerBook G4 was launched in january 2003, making the form-factor design of the 17" MacBook Pro over 5.5 years old; the 15" aluminium PowerBook G4 was launched in September 2003, making the form-factor design of the 15" MacBook Pro almost 5 years old. It could easily be argued that the 15" and 17" form-factors are in fact the same form-factor, it just depends how specific you want to be. Certainly, the two are broadly the same, it's just that the 17" is a scaled version of the 15" (or vice versa).

It's important to note that this is not the same as saying that the MacBook Air's form-factor is just a scaled version of the MacBook Pro form-factor, because it is not. The keyboard is different, the latching mechanism is different, the port design is different, there's no battery bay, there's no optical drive bay, the underside is tapered etc. etc. The MacBook Air form-factor is completely different from the MacBook Pro's.

In the rest of your post, you listed a load of things that have changed since the original titanium PowerBook G4, some of them internal changes (e.g. processor, RAM), some of them external changes (e.g. keyboard design).

You are correct that those things have changed since the Titanium PowerBook G4 in 2001.

But this article is about the MacBook Pro form-factor design being 5.5 years old, not 7 years old. All of the form-factor related differences that you listed between the titanium PowerBook and the MacBook Pro were in fact delivered by the original aluminium PowerBook G4, launched over 5.5 years ago. Hence, the MacBook Pro form-factor design is over 5.5 years old.
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post #105 of 312
Oh man, this thread got real funny didn't it? I apologise for any tempers raised.

The images I used for the 17" PowerBook G4 was downloaded from Apple's site in January 2005. The copyright on the images were for 2003, but the anomaly here is GarageBand which didn't arrive until Jan 2004.

My guess is Apple just photoshopped the screen to include the latest version of iLife once it was out. Same thing happened once Tiger was released - all of the desktops suddenly changed on their stock photos.

Here is the original source image for those who are interested. It was nice when Apple used to provide these high-res photos of their products...
post #106 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

OK. I did read it again.

Maybe we are about to reach a breakthrough. I don't know; let's hope so and then we can all move on.

You started your post by saying:

"When he says "same design," is he referring to the same color? Because the design of the MacBook Pro has completely changed since the PowerBook G4."

What we've been trying to do here is answer that first question that you asked. And the answer is "no, he's not referring to just the colour". He's referring to the overall form-factor, which hasn't changed since the aluminium PowerBook G4. The 17" aluminium PowerBook G4 was launched in january 2003, making the form-factor design of the 17" MacBook Pro over 5.5 years old; the 15" aluminium PowerBook G4 was launched in September 2003, making the form-factor design of the 15" MacBook Pro almost 5 years old. It could easily be argued that the 15" and 17" form-factors are in fact the same form-factor, it just depends how specific you want to be. Certainly, the two are broadly the same, it's just that the 17" is a scaled version of the 15" (or vice versa).

It's important to note that this is not the same as saying that the MacBook Air's form factor is just a scaled version of the MacBook Pro form-factor, because it is not. The keyboard is different, the latching mechanism is different, the port design is different, there's no battery bay, there's no optical drive bay, there underside is tapered etc. etc. The MacBook Air form-factor is completely different from the MacBook Pro's.

In the rest of your post, you listed a load of things that have changed since the original titanium PowerBook G4, some of them internal changes (e.g. processor, RAM), some of them external changes (e.g. keyboard design).

You are correct that those things have changed since the Titanium PowerBook G4 in 2001.

But this article is about the MacBook Pro form-factor design being 5.5 years old, not 7 years old. All of the form-factor related differences that you listed between the titanium PowerBook and the MacBook Pro were in fact delivered by the original aluminium PowerBook G4, launched over 5.5 years ago. Hence, the MacBook Pro form-factor design is over 5.5 years old.

I almost agree...

Except that when using your MBA and MBP analogy. The PowerBook G4 to Intel MacBook Pro transition in 2006 was also another complete redesign.. Yes, the case is the same (never argued that,) but the port design, motherboard, internal component placement and LED displays were all re-engineered.

All I'm saying is simple, A redesign can be more than just cosmetic.

EDIT: As is the case with the Ti PowerBook/ Aluminum Powerbook G4/MacBook Pro. Same basic look, very different machines.

Are we understood yet?
post #107 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

I almost agree...

Except that when using your MBA and MBP analogy. The PowerBook G4 to Intel MacBook Pro transition in 2006 was also another complete redesign.. Yes, the case is the same (never argued that,) but the port design, motherboard, internal component placement and LED displays were all re-engineered.

All I'm saying is simple, A redesign can be more than just cosmetic.

Hooray! Yes, the case is the same.

That's the whole point of this thread!

The CASE DESIGN of Apple's 15" and 17" laptops haven't changed for 5 years and 5.5 years respectively.
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post #108 of 312
I've been religiously visiting this site for nearly 10 years (summer of '99). After reading this thread, i've decided to finally join the party and chirp in my 2 cents.

Mr. solsun - you my friend are an idiot, but thank you for the fun read. it isn't often someone as boneheaded as you refuses to admit defeat. Keep it up, and I'll look forward to reading page 4 this evening.
post #109 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

EDIT: As is the case with the Ti PowerBook/ Aluminum Powerbook G4/MacBook Pro. Same basic look, very different machines.

Are we understood yet?

Damn it!

I thought we were understood, but we're not. The thread isn't about "basic look", it's a bit more specific than that. It's about form-factor, which is appearance related but more detailed than just "basic look".

The Titanium PowerBook G4 and aluminium PowerBook G4 do not have the same form-factor. The aluminium PowerBook G4 and the MacBook Pro do have the same form-factor. The MacBook Pro and MacBook Air do not have the same form-factor.
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post #110 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

Hooray! Yes, the case is the same.

That's the whole point of this thread!

The CASE DESIGN of Apple's 15" and 17" laptops haven't changed for 5 years and 5.5 years respectively.

Well your sounding awfully smug here as if you've won something or feel that you were right all along...

You were still very wrong in your understanding of my original post and what I was saying..

And for the most part, this thread evolved from my post.
post #111 of 312
i'm exhausted just reading this...
please guys... TAKE IT OUTSIDE!

post #112 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

Damn it!

I thought we were understood, but we're not. The thread isn't about "basic look", it's a bit more specific than that. It's about form-factor, which is appearance related but more detailed than just "basic look".

The Titanium PowerBook G4 and aluminium PowerBook G4 do not have the same form-factor. The aluminium PowerBook G4 and the MacBook Pro do have the same form-factor. The MacBook Pro and MacBook Air do not have the same form-factor.

And when did I say anything about form factor? Oh yeah, that's right, I didn't.
post #113 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

And when did I say anything about form factor? Oh yeah, that's right, I didn't.

But everyone else was, using words and descriptions that more or less meant the same thing. It's you that was obsessed with pointing out that tech specs changed, and we were trying to explain to you it's about the appearance, not tech specs. The tech specs change are going to improve whether or not the appearance gets a major makeover or not.

Maybe in a few pages you're going to catch on to what the article was talking about and what everyone else was talking about too.
post #114 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

And when did I say anything about form factor? Oh yeah, that's right, I didn't.

Fuckety fuckety fuck fuck fuck.

Your first post listed several form-factor related changes, which in fact haven't changed for five and a half years.

You originally asked "is this about colour?"

The answer is No.

You also said "I just don't get why people always say it has not been redesigned in ages."

And the answer to this wonderment is that people are saying that the form factor hasn't been redesigned for ages. And that's because the form factor is five and half years old!
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post #115 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

Well your sounding awfully smug here as if you've won something or feel that you were right all along...

Well I'm sorry you read it that way. I was just happy that you finally understood what this thread is about and why people say the case hasn't been redesigned for ages. But apparently I was wrong


Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

You were still very wrong in your understanding of my original post and what I was saying..

No, I understood it perfectly actually. In this early post of mine in response to you, I acknowledged that the form-factor differences you listed did apply relative to the Titanium. I was also trying to explain to you that those differences were delivered by the aluminium PowerBook G4 launched 5.5/5 years ago.
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post #116 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

Fuckety fuckety fuck fuck fuck.

Your first post listed several form-factor related changes, which in fact haven't changed for five and a half years.

You originally asked "is this about colour?"

The answer is No.

You also said "I just don't get why people always say it has not been redesigned in ages."

And the answer to this wonderment is that people are saying that the form factor hasn't been redesigned for ages. And that's because the form factor is five and half years old!

But I NEVER DISAGREED about that.. Why are you assuming I am?

My point is that a redesign can be more than cosmetic. Lots of things have changed over the years that qualify a redesign. That's all.
post #117 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denton View Post

Are people who bought the current Nano going to be happy with the Touch, which is larger in every possible metric? If I wanted a Touch, I would have bought one. I prefer the current Nano at $199 to even a free Touch because the size is my majority concern. I am not the only one. I'm not certain that a shuffle with a small screen would be adequate to replace the current Nano either.

What is particularly compelling about the current Nano is that it rides the features line so well. It's not as good as the Touch on video, but it's still adequate in a pinch. It can't browse the internet, but that's not important for this segment of the market. It has low capacity, but large enough to contain all of the music and playlists that one actually listens to on any regular basis. And on top of that, it's small enough to exercise with. If you are only going to have one iPod, the Nano is the one -- you won't go jogging with a Touch and you can't watch video with a shuffle. I don't think that Apple can replace the Nano with anything other than another Nano without losing a lot of customers to other players.

I bought a Touch but I completely agree with your main point. I don't see them "touching" the Nano unless they also find a way to add external controls. Now I do run with my Touch, but you can't easily change volume or song because you need two hands. Still, size matters, and the nano is a huge seller in part because it fits the niche you describe. Earlier rumor did have them going back to the old slim form factor for nano, but no way they eliminate a best seller.
post #118 of 312
So, how many people here are expecting the next MacBook Pro form-factor to resemble the MacBook Air's?

I am and I can't wait!

I've got a MacBook and love the form-factor. This MacBook was meant to be a temporary stop-gap purchase to get me from an original Titanium PowerBook G4 I had to a MacBook Pro.

I wanted a MacBook Pro, but didn't think the intel architecture (Core Duo at the time) was quite ready - power consumption too high. But my PowerBook G4 was sooooooo slow it was driving me mad. So I thought, "buy cheapest new Mac to see me through until MacBook Pro is worth buying" - and it's taken this long! The next MacBook Pro will have 25 watt CPUs and hopefully an Air-like form-factor.
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post #119 of 312
Can we just shut up about the issue of the PB-MBP design changes. Obviously, anyone with half a brain reading this thread must come to the realization that there are basically no significant changes in the external appearance between the ALUMINUM PowerBook G4 (introduced in 2003 a couple of months before Garageband debuted)and the MacBook Pro.

Are we done being little kids who can't stand having the last word???
post #120 of 312
If Apple doesn't release anything till september, won't it be hard for them to drop their gross margin from 35% (last quarter) to 31% (this quarter) and 30% next quarter? (they'll only have a couple of weeks left of the quarter!)

Or is there something I'm missing?

ps.
Almost not worth posting in this thread, too much noise.
Yes the MBP has had lots of internal changes, few external changes. Can we move on?
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