Apple poised for special event this September - Page 3

Originally Posted by solsun

You can tell me I'm wrong all you want but it's a moot point since I never once said anything about looks.

All I said (repeatedly,) is that a redesign is more than cosmetic. And yes, there have been minor cosmetic changes.

Originally Posted by solsun

So according to what you say if Apple started selling a black or red MacBook Pro, it would be considering a design change.

Originally Posted by Ensign Pulver

It has not completely changed. The case is practically identical and that's all that matters.

EDIT: Didn't realize everyone had already piled on Solsun. He has no idea what he's talking about. The MBP looks identical to the Aluminium Powerbook G4 and is in desperate need of a redesign.

Originally Posted by melgross

What we're saying is that other than the cosmetic (and, of course, practical) redesign of the case, the thread isn't interested.

A case serves two functions.

One is to house the components is such a way as to make them as accessible and protected, as can be.

Two is to make the product as attractive as can be.

That's what we're talking about.

You are talking about what's inside the case, the electronic and mechanical upgrades internal to the design. Other than how they reflect what a new design case can be, they aren't the subject of this discussion.

Originally Posted by Mr. H

In this post:

You said the MacBook Pro has a "New Keyboard design", it doesn't. You said the MacBook Pro has a "New Trackpad", it doesn't (form-factor wise); you said the MacBook Pro added the "Backlight Keyboard"; it didn't; you said the MacBook Pro had "New Speakers and placement", it didn't; you said the MacBook Pro added a "Firewire 800 port", it didn't, in fact, the first MacBook Pro took it away and then it was added back later. You said the MacBook Pro had a "Slimmer enclosure.", whilst this is true, it was only by about 0.01" or something like that.

Originally Posted by solsun

Except that Solsun NEVER SAID they looked completely different. What Solsun DID SAY is that nearly every single component or aspect apart from the color has changed. And that qualifies as a redesign.

Originally Posted by Mr. H

Can't put it any better than Melgross.

We're talking about the fact that since the end of 2003, the design of the case
has changed very very little.

No-one is disputing that the internals have changed. Of course they've changed! Apple would have gone down the toilet if they were still trying to sell computers from 2003 today.

Yes, the MacBook Pro is faster. Yes it's had new CPUs and new RAM and new Motherboard and new this and new that. But the case has not changed significantly since 2003.

Originally Posted by solsun

From the original PowerBook G4. They sure do.

Originally Posted by solsun

You can tell me I'm wrong all you want but it's a moot point since I never once said anything about looks.

All I said (repeatedly,) is that a redesign is more than cosmetic. And yes, there have been minor cosmetic changes.

Originally Posted by Mr. H

Oh jesus. We're not talking about diffences from the original PowerBook G4.

Originally Posted by solsun

How exactly is everyone translating "a redesign is more than cosmetic" into "the case has totally changed?."

Originally Posted by melgross

Ive been waiting to buy a new machine for a while. I retired a few years ago, so I don't NEED a new machine...

I've decided to wait for the Nehalem. I'd like it to get here.

Originally Posted by Mr. H

We're not.

Some of the things that you've claimed have changed are form-factor related i.e., they are part of the design of the case.

In claiming that they have been redesigned, you are claiming that the case has been redesigned and we are telling you that you are wrong.

Originally Posted by probably

Most posters here are not naive enough to ignore that something like UltraBay exists. There aren't, however, slotloading drives like that. They are a bit more sensitive to handle and a modular one would add significant thickness.

Originally Posted by solsun

READ MY FIRST FRICKIN POST.

When I originally listed all the changes I said from "THE ORIGINAL POWERBOOK G4"

Originally Posted by VisualZone

I just hit the big 50 this year so I'm getting there. Although it'll be a few years before I retire. Just kidding again. It's only as old as you feel they say and I feel pretty damn good. Wahooooo!! Hope you're enjoying your retirement. Anyways, I did upgrade to a new iMac this year so it's not that I'm cheap and I did buy an iPod Touch for myself at Christmas too. Eventually I'll get a new MacBook and at that time I'm hoping touch will be more prominent in them. One more thing about my PowerBook G4, the bottom never gets too warm.

Originally Posted by solsun

Mr H. will you please read my first post.

EDIT: (It's on page 1, post #8)

Originally Posted by melgross

Yes, but it's not what the article, or the discussion, is about. And you keep pushing cpu's etc.

Originally Posted by melgross

Well, I'm not that old. I'll be 59 in November. I retired when I was 54. So you can make it soon.

Originally Posted by solsun

When he says "same design," is he referring to the same color? Because the design of the MacBook Pro has completely changed since the PowerBook G4.

Just a few changes..

New Processors,
New Motherboard design,
New RAM,
New Keyboard design,
LED displays,
New Trackpad with MultiTouch,
iSight Camera added,
Magsafe connector added,
Backlight Keyboard added,
New Speakers and placement,
New Wi-FI 802.11n,
Bluetooth 2.1 added,
Firewire 800 port,
PCI express slot added,
Slimmer enclosure.

Basically, the only thing that has not changed since the original PowerBook G4 is the color.

I just don't get why people always say it has not been redesigned in ages.

Originally Posted by melgross

I wasn't responding to MOST posters, I was responding to aapl. Why are you mentioning most posters?

And just why are they more sensitive to handle? They are LESS sensitive to handle, not more.

Originally Posted by solsun

READ MY FIRST FRICKIN POST.

When I originally listed all the changes I said from "THE ORIGINAL POWERBOOK G4"

Originally Posted by solsun

Mr H. will you please read my first post.

EDIT: (It's on page 1, post #8)

Originally Posted by solsun

When he says "same design," is he referring to the same color? Because the design of the MacBook Pro has completely changed since the PowerBook G4.

Originally Posted by Mr. H

OK. I did read it again.

Maybe we are about to reach a breakthrough. I don't know; let's hope so and then we can all move on.

You started your post by saying:

"When he says "same design," is he referring to the same color? Because the design of the MacBook Pro has completely changed since the PowerBook G4."

What we've been trying to do here is answer that first question that you asked. And the answer is "no, he's not referring to just the colour". He's referring to the overall form-factor, which hasn't changed since the aluminium PowerBook G4. The 17" aluminium PowerBook G4 was launched in january 2003, making the form-factor design of the 17" MacBook Pro over 5.5 years old; the 15" aluminium PowerBook G4 was launched in September 2003, making the form-factor design of the 15" MacBook Pro almost 5 years old. It could easily be argued that the 15" and 17" form-factors are in fact the same form-factor, it just depends how specific you want to be. Certainly, the two are broadly the same, it's just that the 17" is a scaled version of the 15" (or vice versa).

It's important to note that this is not the same as saying that the MacBook Air's form factor is just a scaled version of the MacBook Pro form-factor, because it is not. The keyboard is different, the latching mechanism is different, the port design is different, there's no battery bay, there's no optical drive bay, there underside is tapered etc. etc. The MacBook Air form-factor is completely different from the MacBook Pro's.

In the rest of your post, you listed a load of things that have changed since the original titanium PowerBook G4, some of them internal changes (e.g. processor, RAM), some of them external changes (e.g. keyboard design).

You are correct that those things have changed since the Titanium PowerBook G4 in 2001.

But this article is about the MacBook Pro form-factor design being 5.5 years old, not 7 years old. All of the form-factor related differences that you listed between the titanium PowerBook and the MacBook Pro were in fact delivered by the original aluminium PowerBook G4, launched over 5.5 years ago. Hence, the MacBook Pro form-factor design is over 5.5 years old.

Originally Posted by solsun

I almost agree...

Except that when using your MBA and MBP analogy. The PowerBook G4 to Intel MacBook Pro transition in 2006 was also another complete redesign.. Yes, the case is the same (never argued that,) but the port design, motherboard, internal component placement and LED displays were all re-engineered.

All I'm saying is simple, A redesign can be more than just cosmetic.

Originally Posted by solsun

EDIT: As is the case with the Ti PowerBook/ Aluminum Powerbook G4/MacBook Pro. Same basic look, very different machines.

Are we understood yet?

Originally Posted by Mr. H

Hooray! Yes, the case is the same.

That's the whole point of this thread!

The CASE DESIGN of Apple's 15" and 17" laptops haven't changed for 5 years and 5.5 years respectively.

Originally Posted by Mr. H

Damn it!

I thought we were understood, but we're not. The thread isn't about "basic look", it's a bit more specific than that. It's about form-factor, which is appearance related but more detailed than just "basic look".

The Titanium PowerBook G4 and aluminium PowerBook G4 do not have the same form-factor. The aluminium PowerBook G4 and the MacBook Pro do have the same form-factor. The MacBook Pro and MacBook Air do not have the same form-factor.

Originally Posted by solsun

And when did I say anything about form factor? Oh yeah, that's right, I didn't.

Originally Posted by solsun

And when did I say anything about form factor? Oh yeah, that's right, I didn't.

Originally Posted by solsun

Well your sounding awfully smug here as if you've won something or feel that you were right all along...

Originally Posted by solsun

You were still very wrong in your understanding of my original post and what I was saying..

Originally Posted by Mr. H

Fuckety fuckety fuck fuck fuck.

Your first post listed several form-factor related changes, which in fact haven't changed for five and a half years.

You originally asked "is this about colour?"

The answer is No.

You also said "I just don't get why people always say it has not been redesigned in ages."

And the answer to this wonderment is that people are saying that the form factor hasn't been redesigned for ages. And that's because the form factor is five and half years old!

Originally Posted by Denton

Are people who bought the current Nano going to be happy with the Touch, which is larger in every possible metric? If I wanted a Touch, I would have bought one. I prefer the current Nano at $199 to even a free Touch because the size is my majority concern. I am not the only one. I'm not certain that a shuffle with a small screen would be adequate to replace the current Nano either.

What is particularly compelling about the current Nano is that it rides the features line so well. It's not as good as the Touch on video, but it's still adequate in a pinch. It can't browse the internet, but that's not important for this segment of the market. It has low capacity, but large enough to contain all of the music and playlists that one actually listens to on any regular basis. And on top of that, it's small enough to exercise with. If you are only going to have one iPod, the Nano is the one -- you won't go jogging with a Touch and you can't watch video with a shuffle. I don't think that Apple can replace the Nano with anything other than another Nano without losing a lot of customers to other players.