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Mac OS X 10.5.5 bug fix list grows with build 9F13 seed

post #1 of 43
Thread Starter 
Apple last night pushed out another pre-release build of its upcoming Mac OS X 10.5.5 Update for the Leopard operating system, tacking on several more bug fixes to a list that swelled into triple digits a week earlier.

The new build, 9F13, arrives less than a week after Mac maker equipped developers with build 9F9 and warned of a problem with some images that could cause its Aperture photography post production software to unexpectedly quit.

Wednesday's release, however, is the first since the company launched the Mac OS X 10.5.5 Update beta program three weeks ago to arrive without the presence of known issues, people familiar with the software say.

Apple is reported to have made no changes to a list of two dozen core system components where developers have been asked to center the majority of their evaluation efforts.

Instead, the focus of build 9F13 gears towards maintenance and stability, harnessing ten more bug fixes aimed at strengthening the Leopard experience, bringing the total number of code corrections expected as part of Mac OS X 10.5.5 to an eye-catching 115.

Among the more notable tweaks are improvements to Power Management and Energy Saver settings for Mac notebooks, as well as a fix for MobileMe's DMNotification that has been causing the MobileMe preference pane to crash for some subscribers.

Also addressed in the latest build were problems with Mail Sync and Preferences syncing, multiple TCP connections and Application Firewall, and the BSD Kernel and HFS+ file system.

When Mac OS X 10.5.5 makes its debut in the coming weeks, Leopard users can also look forward to improvements to Safari's handling of PDF documents, fixes to Address Book's syncing of newly created contacts, improved Mail message storage, and tweaks to iCal Invitations and email invitations.

In its raw form, Mac OS X 10.5.5 Update currently weighs in at around 330MB.
post #2 of 43
Wow are we at 10.5.5 already? Leopard still feels new to me.
post #3 of 43
I hope they will also fix the performance of AirPort when connecting to (or trying to at the moment...) 802.1x networks.

Since a few days I suddenly cannot connect to the network of my university (never had problems with it before) and AirPort won't automatically reconnect to my WPA2-personal network at home....
iMac G5 20" & PowerBook G4 12"
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post #4 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

Wow are we at 10.5.5 already? Leopard still feels new to me.

Almost like a beta- no?
post #5 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Almost like a beta- no?

While I have no doubt that many people are having issues with Leopard, I have not had a single problem with the OS since 10.5.2 was released. Most people probably feel the same. So, if you care to think of Leopard as a beta, it's only a beta in the Google sense: they didn't want to photoshop the word out of the logo.
post #6 of 43
I still hope that they gonna fix the problem with switching (network)locations. It crashes 2/5 times, and the only thing that works is rebooting. \
post #7 of 43
...fix the problem i have with waking my MBP from sleep. Its the only real issue I have but it is extremely frustrating.
-Adam
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-Adam
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post #8 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phlake View Post

While I have no doubt that many people are having issues with Leopard, I have not had a single problem with the OS since 10.5.2 was released. Most people probably feel the same. So, if you care to think of Leopard as a beta, it's only a beta in the Google sense: they didn't want to photoshop the word out of the logo.

I feel the same as you. I haven't had any problems with the OS and I have an Aluminum iMac, a Macbook Pro and an Airport Extreme.
post #9 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Almost like a beta- no?

It doesn't feel like a beta - I have used actual OS X betas and they are much worse. It just feels a little bit unpolished. A few more point updates and we will get there.
post #10 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by afalkner View Post

...fix the problem i have with waking my MBP from sleep. Its the only real issue I have but it is extremely frustrating.

Yes. PLEASE.

Try closing it up. Waiting for the indicator light to pulse. Wait a minute; then reopen. Sometimes works.

gc
post #11 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleD View Post

I still hope that they gonna fix the problem with switching (network)locations. It crashes 2/5 times, and the only thing that works is rebooting. \

That's strange - I've done that a number of times and haven't had a single problem. Maybe it's in Intel thing??

As far as the beta comments - if you think 10.5 is a beta then you haven't really messed around with a beta before. Even with the massive list of updates and code fixes there still aren't any viruses to exploit them and that's, generally speaking, the most important. Restarting here and there is nothing compared to having someone steal all your private info or have your computer not work at all...
post #12 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Almost like a beta- no?

No. Not even close. I've been using Leopard for over a year now -- had a pre-release (real beta) version of it. And while there were a couple of issues with Safari in the beginning everything for me has been working great.

No application is free from bugs or can claim to be rock solid without being tested "in the wild" as they say. Furthermore, with an operating system it is impossible to track every single issue or conflict it might have with 3rd party applications and drivers. Windows XP was on the market for almost seven years when service pack 3 was released and it contained over 1,000 fixes!
Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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post #13 of 43
What's really amazing is that these complex OS's can work at all with so many bugs. It's like cockroaches, for every one you find, there's a dozen more you haven't.
post #14 of 43
With the new OpenGL 3.0 recently released, I wonder if Apple is going to add it to Leopard or just wait for Snow Leopard. From the Kronos Group press release, a significant number of GPUs already have the feature set to support OpenGL 3.0 so it doesn't seem to be a big change. Which I hear is quite controversial in itself, since OpenGL was supposed to be a complete rewrite.
post #15 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by ltcommander.data View Post

With the new OpenGL 3.0 recently released, I wonder if Apple is going to add it to Leopard or just wait for Snow Leopard. From the Kronos Group press release, a significant number of GPUs already have the feature set to support OpenGL 3.0 so it doesn't seem to be a big change. Which I hear is quite controversial in itself, since OpenGL was supposed to be a complete rewrite.

You can bet that OpenGL 3 will be one of the Snow Leopard features.
post #16 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post

No application is free from bugs or can claim to be rock solid without being tested "in the wild" as they say. Furthermore, with an operating system it is impossible to track every single issue or conflict it might have with 3rd party applications and drivers. Windows XP was on the market for almost seven years when service pack 3 was released and it contained over 1,000 fixes!

Has anyone been keeping a running tally of the number of bugs fixed in leopard? We must be close to 1,000 by now if not over. For those arguing that leopard is still a beta, or was released too early, It would be interesting to compare the total number of fixes up to 10.5.5 against the same number for 10.4.5 or 10.3.5. And to play the "Service pack vs. Point Update" game (not suggesting mj was), i wonder how many of the 1000 SP3 fixes related to security holes vs. actual bugs in the OS?

I haven't experienced too many issues with leopard, though one notable one is a nagging problem with the right hand menu bar (clock etc) upon waking from sleep. If my 3G iPod is connected when that happens, the clock and menu bar become unresponsive. It's an annoying glitch, but not enough make me abandon the cause.
post #17 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

What's really amazing is that these complex OS's can work at all with so many bugs. It's like cockroaches, for every one you find, there's a dozen more you haven't.

As long as the kernel is solid the OS should run fine even if it's chock-full of bugs. Most of the fixes are minor at best and take a convoluted series of steps to reproduce. Usually something that most users will never experience.

A good and overused analogy would be a car. They're built with thousands of parts, but just because the tape deck no longer works doesn't mean the engine isn't going to turn over and start. As long as the main parts work, the car should be good to go.

Same with an OS. I would venture to guess 90% of the code has nothing to do with the actual running of the operating system. The rest is mostly just features and ease-of-use stuff that most of us could do without.

As you're fixing an issue, you may also find out that it has been covering up several other issues. And thus creating a bigger problem than the original issue. Gotta love programming! Fixing and optimizing code is very time consuming.
Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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post #18 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayalexander View Post

Has anyone been keeping a running tally of the number of bugs fixed in leopard? We must be close to 1,000 by now if not over.

Actually for a point update to have as many as a 100 fixes is huge by Apple's standards, so I'm not sure we're anywhere near a thousand yet? Even if Apple averaged 100 fixes per update, there would only be around 500.


Quote:
For those arguing that leopard is still a beta, or was released too early, It would be interesting to compare the total number of fixes up to 10.5.5 against the same number for 10.4.5 or 10.3.5.

You can't compare something like that unless the code bases are all the same. Each version of OS X has introduced a varying amount of new technologies and therefore would have a different number of unrelated issues.


Quote:
And to play the "Service pack vs. Point Update" game (not suggesting mj was), i wonder how many of the 1000 SP3 fixes related to security holes vs. actual bugs in the OS?

Was pointing out the amount of time as a response to a previous post. Was XP considered beta? No, but yet seven years after it was released there were 1,100 and some fixes. And fix doesn't necessarily have to mean a bug, could also mean optimizing poorly written code to make something run faster, whereas a bug usually means a conflict or code that simply doesn't work.


Quote:
I haven't experienced too many issues with leopard, though one notable one is a nagging problem with the right hand menu bar (clock etc) upon waking from sleep. If my 3G iPod is connected when that happens, the clock and menu bar become unresponsive. It's an annoying glitch, but not enough make me abandon the cause.

Did you file a bug report with Apple? It's issues like that that fall under the radar unless users report them. They can only fix the problems they are aware of.
Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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post #19 of 43
BEWARE this fix is known to start three-alarm fires.
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post #20 of 43
Everybody has their pet "bug" that they are absolutely, positively sure everyone else has too. Whenever these update articles are published it's hilarious to read the "fix MY bug" posters rants.
post #21 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by afalkner View Post

...fix the problem i have with waking my MBP from sleep. Its the only real issue I have but it is extremely frustrating.

If the problem you're referring to is after you login your screen turns black, then do what GordonComstock recommended. Which is to close the lid again and wait for the notebook to back to sleep then open it and re-login.

I'm not saying Leopard has no real issues, it does, and I can list a whole slew of Finder shortcomings, but the temporary solution for the black screen problem is that.
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post #22 of 43
Adobe CS3 still unexpectedly quits. All the time. Please fix.
post #23 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by bloggerblog View Post

If the problem you're referring to is after you login your screen turns black, then do what GordonComstock recommended. Which is to close the lid again and wait for the notebook to back to sleep then open it and re-login.

I'm not saying Leopard has no real issues, it does, and I can list a whole slew of Finder shortcomings, but the temporary solution for the black screen problem is that.

Thanks for the tips but it is actually worse than that. It happens sporadically and when it does opening and closing the lid does not fix it. When my MBP is not connected to a power source and has been asleep for a brief to long period of time when I reopen the screen it just stays black. The sleep indicator light turns on and off when I open and close but the screen never comes on. Even when I have plenty of battery left. If I then plug the power adapter in and open it up it will usually wake up then...but this is not always an option if I dont have my power cord with me. Then I have to hold down the power button and force it to shut down then turn it back on again and reboot. This is really frustrating when I have a bunch of work open!
-Adam
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-Adam
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post #24 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post

As long as the kernel is solid the OS should run fine even if it's chock-full of bugs. Most of the fixes are minor at best and take a convoluted series of steps to reproduce. Usually something that most users will never experience.

A good and overused analogy would be a car. They're built with thousands of parts, but just because the tape deck no longer works doesn't mean the engine isn't going to turn over and start. As long as the main parts work, the car should be good to go.

Same with an OS. I would venture to guess 90% of the code has nothing to do with the actual running of the operating system. The rest is mostly just features and ease-of-use stuff that most of us could do without.

As you're fixing an issue, you may also find out that it has been covering up several other issues. And thus creating a bigger problem than the original issue. Gotta love programming! Fixing and optimizing code is very time consuming.

Not quite that simple either. Many small bugs affect quite a few different areas. Your tape deck analogy doesn't work, because it would be like a program running over the OS, not like the OS itself. As though Safari has a bug.

OS bugs are more insidious. Even a font supplied by Apple, and used by default has been shown to cause widespread, and surprising problems.
post #25 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by macinthe408 View Post

Adobe CS3 still unexpectedly quits. All the time. Please fix.

Never had that problem on any machine so far.

It could be some local problem you're having, such as a corrupt installation, or some other corruption somewhere else.
post #26 of 43
Quote:
And to play the "Service pack vs. Point Update" game (not suggesting mj was), i wonder how many of the 1000 SP3 fixes related to security holes vs. actual bugs in the OS?

But you got to remember that Microsoft defines a service pack as:

Quote:
Windows XP Service Pack 3 (SP3) is a free update for Windows XP. SP3 includes all previously released Windows XP updates, including security updates, hotfixes, and select out-of-band releases

Link: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/pro...3/default.mspx

Therefore the 1,000 bug fixes aren't new at all, there merely old updates bundled in one package. So over XP's seven year life span it has had about 1,000 bug fixes…
post #27 of 43
"Among the more notable tweaks are improvements to Power Management and Energy Saver settings for Mac notebooks"

Thank God! Leopard is noticeably more of a power drain on my PowerBook than Tiger was.
post #28 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by shahvikram123 View Post

But you got to remember that Microsoft defines a service pack as:


Link: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/pro...3/default.mspx

Therefore the 1,000 bug fixes aren't new at all, there merely old updates bundled in one package. So over XP's seven year life span it has had about 1,000 bug fixes…

That's one sixty-eighth out of the 68,000 we were told it had upon release.
post #29 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by macinthe408 View Post

Adobe CS3 still unexpectedly quits. All the time. Please fix.

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Never had that problem on any machine so far.

It could be some local problem you're having, such as a corrupt installation, or some other corruption somewhere else.

Happens from time to time for our 10+ retouchers who work full time in Photoshop CS3 (version 10.0.1) on Quad Core Mac Pro 2,66 GHz (first generation), ATI RADEON X1900 XT graphics 512 MB VRAM, 5 GB RAM running Mac OS X 10.5.4.

Another issue is that Photoshop's menu bar won't come to front when clicking the Photoshop icon in the Dock. It hasn't stalled or anything (doesn't show as red in Activity Monitor), but it simply won't come to the front, only it's windows which can't be moved, but they can be minimized. Upon trying to force quit it gets quit in the sense that goes away from Activity Monitor, but it stays active in the Dock (white dot underneath). If one right click on the Photoshop icon in the dock it says "Application not Responding", but it doesn't work to try and force quit again. Eventually (after about five minutes) it usually "dies" so one can launch it again.

It also happens that Photoshop stalls (spinning beach ball) and doesn't come back, requiring a force quit (which seems to work sometimes).

Maybe this partially Adobe's "fault" but it's disturbing nevertheless.
Hope 10.5.5. will improve at least the behavior when Photoshop won't come to front.

I've seen this happen for other applications as well, that the menu bar doesn't "follow" one one click an app to get it up front. If this happens it's just to switch to another application and then back again, until it happens the next time...

A few times I've also had problems with not all running apps showing up in the app switcher (cmd-tab). Just some of them would show, and one first have to switch to an app and then activate the app switcher again to see all. Quitting (restarting) the Dock cures this though (until it's triggered again...).
post #30 of 43
Not to mention Illustrator's memory leak, overtime the application will consume all the memory there is. It will not release it even after closing all windows.

How about InDesign's pesky little problem where the windows won't Hide.

Adobe... the next Microsoft.
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post #31 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by a Martin View Post

Happens from time to time for our 10+ retouchers who work full time in Photoshop CS3 (version 10.0.1) on Quad Core Mac Pro 2,66 GHz (first generation), ATI RADEON X1900 XT graphics 512 MB VRAM, 5 GB RAM running Mac OS X 10.5.4.

Another issue is that Photoshop's menu bar won't come to front when clicking the Photoshop icon in the Dock. It hasn't stalled or anything (doesn't show as red in Activity Monitor), but it simply won't come to the front, only it's windows which can't be moved, but they can be minimized. Upon trying to force quit it gets quit in the sense that goes away from Activity Monitor, but it stays active in the Dock (white dot underneath). If one right click on the Photoshop icon in the dock it says "Application not Responding", but it doesn't work to try and force quit again. Eventually (after about five minutes) it usually "dies" so one can launch it again.

It also happens that Photoshop stalls (spinning beach ball) and doesn't come back, requiring a force quit (which seems to work sometimes).

Maybe this partially Adobe's "fault" but it's disturbing nevertheless.
Hope 10.5.5. will improve at least the behavior when Photoshop won't come to front.

I've seen this happen for other applications as well, that the menu bar doesn't "follow" one one click an app to get it up front. If this happens it's just to switch to another application and then back again, until it happens the next time...

A few times I've also had problems with not all running apps showing up in the app switcher (cmd-tab). Just some of them would show, and one first have to switch to an app and then activate the app switcher again to see all. Quitting (restarting) the Dock cures this though (until it's triggered again...).

I haven't seen it, or have been told of it on the three machines in my home that have it, or the 42 machines in the two photography classes in my daughters school. So, while something is surely fishy, it's not consistent, which is why I suspect something other than a bug.
post #32 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Not quite that simple either. Many small bugs affect quite a few different areas. Your tape deck analogy doesn't work, because it would be like a program running over the OS, not like the OS itself. As though Safari has a bug.

OS bugs are more insidious. Even a font supplied by Apple, and used by default has been shown to cause widespread, and surprising problems.

A font shows widespread problems because if it is the default setup everything from Preferences to Menus and more are affected due to the corrupt font file. That's not a bug but a corrupt file producing the expected behavior of all that load it only we see the corrupted results and due to the corrupted file the xml parser flakes on the font engine to the NSPanel through NSFont and much much more.

Throw in a different font for default and everything runs as billed. Check the corrupted font and replace it with a proper one and reset the default to that font and all is well.

A bug requires tracking down expected behavior that is not producing that behavior and thus the sideeffects result in dependent parts working incorrectly as well.

If an exception is to be thrown that never gets throw, the objects never get released that are supposed to be released and the cache has the wrong stored objects there are plenty of problems that arrive due to that exception not being use case tested and written to avoid.
post #33 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

What's really amazing is that these complex OS's can work at all with so many bugs. It's like cockroaches, for every one you find, there's a dozen more you haven't.

Use boric acid - works every time. Um, for the roaches, not the OS.
2011 13" 2.3 MBP, 2006 15" 2.16 MBP, iPhone 4, iPod Shuffle, AEBS, AppleTV2 with XBMC.
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post #34 of 43
Haven't succeeded to backup any of my machines using time machine. The initial backup over ethernet aborts midway, even with no activity at all on any of the computers.
None of the apple forums seems to offer any solutions.

I hope 10.5.5 will contain fixes to Time Machine and/or Time Capsule firmware such that reliability is drastically increased.

It should be (and remain) rock solid such that there is never a need to throw away any time machine sparse images and start from scratch.
post #35 of 43
I'm glad that the new seeds are keeping coming regularly; not that it means anything re release date given the experience with 10.5.2 or 10.5.3.

But I can say that whatever these bug fixes are, they won't fix the iTunes dashboard widget; they won't fix MacBook Pro graphical corruption issues; they won't fix randomly unavailable SMB shares after wakeup or startup; they won't fix Finder FTP timeout issues due to complex permissions; they won't fix the menubar not updating when switching between apps; they won't fix a stuck mouse button in iTunes; they won't fix Finder sidebar behaviour, or that within open/save dialogs; and they won't standardise scrollbars through the OS.

That's right! After 4 updates and 800+ fixes applied within them, it's high time for some reverse psychology to get my outstanding ones sorted!

Oh and one other thing: the next iPhone software update won't fix the fact that Safari on the iPhone crashed four times on me last night while I was trying to post this message. Ironically, the last time, when I gave up, was just after I had typed the above "won't fix the fact that Safari on the iPhone crashed..." .
post #36 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

A font shows widespread problems because if it is the default setup everything from Preferences to Menus and more are affected due to the corrupt font file. That's not a bug but a corrupt file producing the expected behavior of all that load it only we see the corrupted results and due to the corrupted file the xml parser flakes on the font engine to the NSPanel through NSFont and much much more.

Throw in a different font for default and everything runs as billed. Check the corrupted font and replace it with a proper one and reset the default to that font and all is well.

A bug requires tracking down expected behavior that is not producing that behavior and thus the sideeffects result in dependent parts working incorrectly as well.

If an exception is to be thrown that never gets throw, the objects never get released that are supposed to be released and the cache has the wrong stored objects there are plenty of problems that arrive due to that exception not being use case tested and written to avoid.

Uh, yes, I understand. It wasn't the best example, but I would think that there was a point that was understood.
post #37 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I haven't seen it, or have been told of it on the three machines in my home that have it, or the 42 machines in the two photography classes in my daughters school. So, while something is surely fishy, it's not consistent, which is why I suspect something other than a bug.

I know now the problem with Photoshop not coming to front happens after hiding it (cmd-ctrl-H).
Since there is a problem with In Design and Leopard (hiding doesn't always work the first time you launch it, but a quit and re-launch solves it) it might be that this Photoshop problem is related to.

Edit:
Found this on the Apple Discussions Forum: http://discussions.apple.com/thread....67780&tstart=0
And no, it doesn't help till quit the Dock so it gets re-launched.
post #38 of 43
adobe needs to also put out updates that make the CS 3 suites finally leopard compatible as they are really far from being totally compatible and apple can only do so much.
post #39 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by a Martin View Post

I know now the problem with Photoshop not coming to front happens after hiding it (cmd-ctrl-H).
Since there is a problem with In Design and Leopard (hiding doesn't always work the first time you launch it, but a quit and re-launch solves it) it might be that this Photoshop problem is related to.

Edit:
Found this on the Apple Discussions Forum: http://discussions.apple.com/thread....67780&tstart=0
And no, it doesn't help till quit the Dock so it gets re-launched.

When you quit the dock all applications automatically unHide, exposing the notion that the Hide command may be handled by the dock.
Wow... the Dock might be the culprit here, I would've never guessed that.
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post #40 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by a Martin View Post

I know now the problem with Photoshop not coming to front happens after hiding it (cmd-ctrl-H).
Since there is a problem with In Design and Leopard (hiding doesn't always work the first time you launch it, but a quit and re-launch solves it) it might be that this Photoshop problem is related to.

Edit:
Found this on the Apple Discussions Forum: http://discussions.apple.com/thread....67780&tstart=0
And no, it doesn't help till quit the Dock so it gets re-launched.

I haven't used Design much recently, so I can't assert my knowledge about that problem, but I really haven't seen this with PS. Are you using both programs at once? I used to have PS, Design, Illustrator, and others open at the same time, perhaps its related to that.
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