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First Google Android phone spotting reveals bulky iPhone rival

post #1 of 164
Thread Starter 
The first smartphone based on Google's Android mobile platform could hit the U.S. market as early as October, according to new reports, but a video of the handset leaked on the Internet reveals a device which lacks the elegance that's already drawn millions to Apple's iPhone.

People briefed on the search giant's plans tell the New York Times that the HTC-manufacturered handset, know amongst Internet circles as the "Dream," will go on sale by the holidays -- possibly even earlier depending on how long it takes the Federal Communications Commission to weigh in with approval.

It's expected to be the only Android phone available in the U.S. this year and will be sold exclusively through T-Mobile, the nations No. 4 wireless carrier. A video (below) of the supposed device making the rounds on the Internet is said to match the one seen by the Times' sources, confirming its authenticity.

Like the iPhone, the Dream has a full touch-screen and will be able to run a slew of applications written by third-party developers for the open-source Android operating system. Conversely, it will also feature a physical "full five-row keyboard" that's exposed by sliding the display component upwards, mimicking the functionality of T-Mobile's Sidekick handset.

While the Dream is "apparently a hot item to show off in Google's cafeterias these days," those familiar with the device describe it as "big and bulky," and nowhere near as sleek as iPhone that's forever altered the landscape of the mobile industry. The Android software itself is similarly not up to par with standards set by Apple, leaving it feeling "less-elegant, less-user-friendly" just months before its slated to be unleashed into the wild.

Still, the Dream is just one of "several devices" Google is testing with its new mobile software, offering hope that other smartphone makers will be able to compensate for the inadequacies of the initial HTC handset when they begin rolling out their Android phones sometime next year. The more pressing issue appears to be whether Google is adequately prepared to provide its ring of developers with the support and expertise they need to go head-to-head with an already thriving fleet of software makers that have hitched onto Apple's mobile platform.



Some early Android supporters have already expressed frustration with the company for favoring a small subset of developers with advance releases of Android's Software Developer Kit, exposing them to newer features and bug fixes ahead of the general community. Meanwhile, those carriers and hardware manufacturers that do have access to the latest Android codebase haven't experienced a clear path to success either.

Among their complaints have been language translation problems with software and an overall lack of support from Google, whose emphasis on the anticipated launch of the Dream through T-Mobile has crowded out other carrier's attempts to get help launching their own array of Android devices.
post #2 of 164
Given that Android is only in its first iteration, I'm not too concerned with limited functionality or other such growing pains... give it some time, kids.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #3 of 164
Darth Vadar.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #4 of 164
I'm so creeped out by the heavy breathing
post #5 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Given that Android is only in its first iteration, I'm not too concerned with limited functionality or other such growing pains... give it some time, kids.

That's what Gates said about Windows.
These guys can't come up with anything more 21st century than f***ing desktop folder icons?
post #6 of 164
duplicate.
post #7 of 164
I love Google and everything, but when comparing Apple and Google, you have to keep in mind that Google has never released a consumer grade OS to the masses before and Apple has done it time and time again. As much as I like Google, they are not an OS company. So while I will keep an Android ear open, I'm not expecting to seriously compete with the iPhone. It might compete well with Windows Mobile. Anything is better than that crap.
post #8 of 164
Bring it on.....

We will bury these cockroaches.....

One thought he was invincible... the other thought he could fly.

They were both wrong.

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One thought he was invincible... the other thought he could fly.

They were both wrong.

Reply
post #9 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by moo083 View Post

I love Google and everything, but when comparing Apple and Google, you have to keep in mind that Google has never released a consumer grade OS to the masses before and Apple has done it time and time again. As much as I like Google, they are not an OS company. So while I will keep an Android ear open, I'm not expecting to seriously compete with the iPhone. It might compete well with Windows Mobile. Anything is better than that crap.

Maybe it will have 22nd century features, like cut copy and paste.
post #10 of 164
Looks like I'm not the only one that thought Darth Vader was invoked in this video LOL.

On the serious side that video was just about useless on the iPhone.

Interestingly I'm not opposed to a physical keyboard on such devices. It is just that I don't see how youbcan keep the size of the phone under control. If apple comes out with a larger iPod Touch a slide out keyboard might work well on it. Or maybe a slide out screen that can cover for a keyboard. I just don't see current tech making such possible in a phone the size of iPhone.

Dave
post #11 of 164
Good article but do you have to drag out this troll every single time an article about Android is in the offing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

... Some early Android supporters have already expressed frustration with the company for favoring a small subset of developers with advance releases of Android's Software Developer Kit...

*Some* die-hard OSS evangelists are upset over this, but it's simply not the gigantic issue it's being made out to be and doesn't deserve to be repeated ad nauseam in every single article about the subject. It's also inaccurate in the way you report it.

Additionally, it's very, very interesting that Googles (debatable but definitely valid) response to this criticism is never mentioned in the same articles. Google's known position is that they are taking a well-known and in some circles respected approach to OS development, by trying to prototype the basics of Android somewhat privately, before the code is released in full to the OS community. You may disagree with this, but it's a valid choice to make. Others make it, Google made it, and to describe what they are doing as "favouring" particular OS developers is disingenuous to say the least.

I understand that sites like this are heavily biased towards the developer community, but a little objective reporting isn't going to hurt anyone. If you are going to include this canard in every single article on Android, at least have the decency to cover both sides of the issue in full.

You are putting words in Googles "mouth" here that were never said and attributing actions to Google that they never performed.
In Windows, a window can be a document, it can be an application, or it can be a window that contains other documents or applications. Theres just no consistency. Its just a big grab bag of monkey...
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In Windows, a window can be a document, it can be an application, or it can be a window that contains other documents or applications. Theres just no consistency. Its just a big grab bag of monkey...
Reply
post #12 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

Good article but do you have to drag out this troll every single time an article about Android is in the offing?


*Some* die-hard OSS evangelists are upset over this, but it's simply not the gigantic issue it's being made out to be and doesn't deserve to be repeated ad nauseam in every single article about the subject. It's also inaccurate in the way you report it.

Additionally, it's very, very interesting that Googles (debatable but definitely valid) response to this criticism is never mentioned in the same articles. Google's known position is that they are taking a well-known and in some circles respected approach to OS development, by trying to prototype the basics of Android somewhat privately, before the code is released in full to the OS community. You may disagree with this, but it's a valid choice to make. Others make it, Google made it, and to describe what they are doing as "favouring" particular OS developers is disingenuous to say the least.

I understand that sites like this are heavily biased towards the developer community, but a little objective reporting isn't going to hurt anyone. If you are going to include this canard in every single article on Android, at least have the decency to cover both sides of the issue in full.

You are putting words in Googles "mouth" here that were never said and attributing actions to Google that they never performed.

Some good criticism... besides, there are plenty of other things developers are hating about Android, from all published reports. Such as that it's a LOT harder to do some of the things that are easy with the iPhone SDK on the Android SDK. Apple not only benefits from decades of OS experience, they also already had an entire development library and toolchain avaialble that they just had to augment for the iPhone.
post #13 of 164
The Google phone wil be as well-received as a fart in church. Watch.
post #14 of 164

Here is what i believe; it is based on nothing more than my opinion.

The iPhone is a revolutionary new product.
So were the 1st GUI-based Macs.

The iPhone is tightly controlled by Apple.
So were the 1st GUI-Macs.

The iPhone will fail the same way the original Macs did because of the tight hardware/software control. People will stop looking at their cell phones as "phones" and see them for what they are... mini computers. Once people get a feel for a 'mini computer cell phone' that they can customize any way they like only having to pay for the data/voice plan. This market will be flipped on its head.

Apple is once again starting this tech revolution, but there game plan looks to be the same to me. They did lose the PC war you know.

 

 

Edit: 2012

I was right, lololol

http://www.zdnet.com/android-really-is-the-new-windows-7000007450/


Edited by ekeefe41 - 11/15/12 at 3:17pm
post #15 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by ekeefe41 View Post

Here is what i believe, it is based on nothing more than my opinion.

The iphone is a revolutionary new product.
So were the 1st gui based mac's

The Iphone is tightly controlled by Apple
So were the 1st gui mac's

The Iphone will fail the same way the original mac's did because of the tight hardware/software control. People will stop looking at their cell phones as "phones" and see them for what they are... Mini computers. Once people get a feel for a 'mini computer cell phone' that they can customize any way they like only having to pay for the data/voice plan. This market will be flipped on it's head.

Apple is once again starting this tech revolution, but there game plan looks to be the same to me. They did loose the PC war you know.

This whole thesis is completely wrong simply based on the fact that the Macintosh is still tightly controlled by Apple. The Macintosh is currently growing faster than the entire Windows market.

The original Macs did not fail. How exactly are you gauging success or failure? Apple as a company lost direction because of poor management, not because of its business model.

Apple did not really start the mobile phone as a "mini computer". They simply have done it better.
post #16 of 164
That thing looks like the bastard child of an iPhone bred with a Sidekick!
post #17 of 164
Looks like something thrown together real quickly. I noticed from the video that the screen is not very responsive. I hope this is due to the touch screen and not the app. Maybe in a few years they will have a more polished app than what was just shown cause I would not even give that a second look...

post #18 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

This whole thesis is completely wrong simply based on the fact that the Macintosh is still tightly controlled by Apple. The Macintosh is currently growing faster than the entire Windows market.

The original Macs did not fail. How exactly are you gauging success or failure? Apple as a company lost direction because of poor management, not because of its business model.

Apple did not really start the mobile phone as a "mini computer". They simply have done it better.

What is Apple's market share in the PC market again???

6.1%

They lost the PC war, get over it. I don't want to derail this in to a apple/windows conversation. My point is there business plan looks strikingly familiar to the old PC business plan. I also thing the company that takes the lead in the cell phone OS market will be the next "windows" (business wise that is)
post #19 of 164
ekeefe41 - tenobell nailed it, but just to add... people will consider their cell phone a mini computer, and for most users, they will just want it to work and do what they need it to do (which is not a very high bar).
Geeks may want to open their phone up and add flux capacitors but most (a much larger global user base than PCs) want it to do the basic job they need it to do - phone, surf, media, few cool apps etc.
The history of the PC wars is not relevant. Apple had many opportunities to win and screwed the pooch every time. Apple may have run aground in the past but it is now on the crest of the wave in delivering that market-driven model in the iPhone and pretty well in the Mac too.
post #20 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capnbob View Post

ekeefe41 - tenobell nailed it, but just to add... people will consider their cell phone a mini computer, and for most users, they will just want it to work and do what they need it to do (which is not a very high bar).
Geeks may want to open their phone up and add flux capacitors but most (a much larger global user base than PCs) want it to do the basic job they need it to do - phone, surf, media, few cool apps etc.
The history of the PC wars is not relevant. Apple had many opportunities to win and screwed the pooch every time. Apple may have run aground in the past but it is now on the crest of the wave in delivering that market-driven model in the iPhone and pretty well in the Mac too.

I think your being short sighted..
Think about the computing power of an iphone.

Now try to imagine what phones the same size of the iphone will be able to do in 5 years.

I think people's phones will replace there computers for social networking email chating.... who knows what else. There will be a "Killer app" to make everyone to use there phone as a computer. It just hasn't been made yet.

I could be all wrong, it's just ideas floating around in my head.
post #21 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by ekeefe41 View Post

Here is what i believe, it is based on nothing more than my opinion.

The iphone is a revolutionary new product.
So were the 1st gui based mac's

The Iphone is tightly controlled by Apple
So were the 1st gui mac's

The Iphone will fail the same way the original mac's did because of the tight hardware/software control. People will stop looking at their cell phones as "phones" and see them for what they are... Mini computers. Once people get a feel for a 'mini computer cell phone' that they can customize any way they like only having to pay for the data/voice plan. This market will be flipped on it's head.

Apple is once again starting this tech revolution, but there game plan looks to be the same to me. They did loose the PC war you know.

This is the conventional wisdom, but personally I don't think that's why Windows became ubiquitous over MacOS. DOS/Windows was cheaper, was more directly applicable to the folks spending the money (mostly just businesses in the 80's), and once the hardware platform was established ran on existing hardware.

None of that is applicable here. In fact, considering the installed base of existing iPhones, the new subsidized price, and the applicability to both business and home users (who are spending a lot more than they did in the 80's), I'd say the iPhone has all the advantages over Android this time.

If anything, RIM's the one to watch here. The corporate world is theirs to lose right now and they're starting to put feelers out into the consumer space. I don't see Android being very relevant.
post #22 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capnbob View Post

ekeefe41 - tenobell nailed it, but just to add... people will consider their cell phone a mini computer, and for most users, they will just want it to work and do what they need it to do (which is not a very high bar).
Geeks may want to open their phone up and add flux capacitors but most (a much larger global user base than PCs) want it to do the basic job they need it to do - phone, surf, media, few cool apps etc.
The history of the PC wars is not relevant. Apple had many opportunities to win and screwed the pooch every time. Apple may have run aground in the past but it is now on the crest of the wave in delivering that market-driven model in the iPhone and pretty well in the Mac too.

Many people who buy the iPhone do not even realize that it is a smart phone to begin with and think it's a cell phone as it is marketed. This accounts for a large part of the sales percentage of it to smart phones overall.
It should be really compared as a percentage of both cell phones and smart phones combined. And there the percentage is probably not that significant.
The real test is whether corporate America adopts it and this has yet to be witnessed.
post #23 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by ekeefe41 View Post

Here is what i believe, it is based on nothing more than my opinion.

The iphone is a revolutionary new product.
So were the 1st gui based mac's

The Iphone is tightly controlled by Apple
So were the 1st gui mac's

The Iphone will fail the same way the original mac's did because of the tight hardware/software control. People will stop looking at their cell phones as "phones" and see them for what they are... Mini computers. Once people get a feel for a 'mini computer cell phone' that they can customize any way they like only having to pay for the data/voice plan. This market will be flipped on it's head.

Apple is once again starting this tech revolution, but there game plan looks to be the same to me. They did loose the PC war you know.

"Price" lost the PC war. IBM almost went under too. That isn't going to happen with iPhone.
Cubist
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Cubist
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post #24 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by ekeefe41 View Post

The Iphone will fail the same way the original mac's did because of the tight hardware/software control.

It's funny that people to this day still think that was the cause of the Mac's tiny fraction of the market share, it is in fact a completely short-sighted and flawed assumption. The Mac, along with every other OS vendor; AmigaOS, NextStep, BeOS, DR-DOS, countless others, were shoved out of the market by Microsoft (IBM's Frankenstein's Monster) and it's unethical business practices.

At that point in history, it was about applications and compatibility. In this modern age it's all about the content (the data), which is now mostly open and cross-platform compatible thanks to the advent of the Internet and a need for standards. It doesn't matter how tight your control is over your own platform anymore as long as you support the standards that everyone else supports.

The market the Mac originated in is not at all anything like the market the iPhone is in. And to try and draw comparisons between the two platforms is a bit ridiculous.
Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
Reply
post #25 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by ekeefe41 View Post

They did loose the PC war you know.

Tell that to Steve Ballmer. See how he feels about that right now. On second thought, never mind. All you're likely to get out of him is "Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers! I! LOVE! THIS! COMPANY! HEE-HAW!"
post #26 of 164
All you guys are saying "price won the PC war".
Well what caused the price difference?

The ability to install the windows OS on and hardware made for competition.
Competition breeds price drops.
Competition also breeds also new developments.

This all still fits my point...
Apple=Socialist Computing
Windows=Free market computing

Again the iphone business model looks the same to me.
post #27 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capnbob View Post

ekeefe41 - tenobell nailed it, but just to add... ....

I agree.

And, I'd like to add another counterargument to ekeefe41: Look at the runaway success of the "tightly controlled software+hardware" device (and ecosystem) known as the iPod......
post #28 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

I'd like to add another counterargument to ekeefe41: Look at the runaway success of the "tightly controlled software+hardware" device (and ecosystem) known as the iPod......

The moral: this too shall change. The iPod might even become a bigger success.
post #29 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

I agree.

And, I'd like to add another counterargument to ekeefe41: Look at the runaway success of the "tightly controlled software+hardware" device (and ecosystem) known as the iPod......

..and the complete and utter failure of the "tightly controlled software+hardware" device (and ecosystem) known as the AppleTV......
post #30 of 164
It seems apparent to me that a major reason for the dominance of PCs was/is customizability.

In the past, a basic computer was only suitable for the most mundane tasks. People had to consider their uses, then carefully pick-and-choose the hardware components to get the best bang for the buck. The typical user was tech-savvy, and was able and willing to do this. The openness of Windows supported this basic need, while few alternatives did. Apple struggled through those times.

I believe Apple's market share is rising largely due to the fact that a basic computer is now capable of doing what 80% of the market needs. There are still users that needs specialized hardware (gamers, etc), or people that are used to the status quo. The existence of the Mac Pro and calls for an xMac attest to this.

So, how does this apply to phones? Sure, some people need a basic phone, and others need a high-end smartphone. Android may allow the same OS to support a wide range of hardware - but is it going to enable the hardware customization of a Windows PC? No.

First, a modular phone would almost surely not be compact, light, and durable enough for actual use. You may have a few different handsets to choose from, but you won't be able to mix & match, or upgrade components individually.

Second, the phone companies are keeping tight control over the handsets. It is too much of a revenue stream, and a significant differentiator (ie, if you want an iphone, go to AT&T). They won't let generic modular phones happen.

If the iPhone does fail to Android, it won't be becuse of open-hardware "PC Phones".
post #31 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

I agree.

And, I'd like to add another counterargument to ekeefe41: Look at the runaway success of the "tightly controlled software+hardware" device (and ecosystem) known as the iPod......

Funny, everyone i know hates that they are forced to use Itunes if they buy an ipod. I like Itunes....

Let me be clear, i am an Apple fan. I just think the smart cell phone industry will be the next big thing. If one OS could become the defacto OS for the industry.... well watch out.

RiM, Apple, Windows moble, Palm

Pick your poison.

Given Apple can only be installed on apple hardware....
Well... make your own assumptions.
post #32 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

I agree.

And, I'd like to add another counterargument to ekeefe41: Look at the runaway success of the "tightly controlled software+hardware" device (and ecosystem) known as the iPod......

Both iPods and iPhones are successes due to their hardware more than anything else.
The futuristic white click-wheeled iPos and sleek glass iPhone are what really made the success more than anything else- the coolness factor.
post #33 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

That's what Gates said about Windows.
These guys can't come up with anything more 21st century than f***ing desktop folder icons?

I want to agree with you but it's really rediculous. 21st century technology is folder icons. I would rather have the folder then flip through 100 unlabeled homescreens with no option of a different backround. I would love copy/paste but guess what. iPhone has been out for a year and a half and it's still not happened. Everyone complains about vista I don't have it personally but I wouldn't mind it. I know like 20 people with it and none of them complain. I have only heard people who have macs complain about vista lol so funny. Google phone platform may be good may not be who knows but the iPhone is very very lacking in very east to fix subjects. I know because I have the 3g and my lady has the 1st gen.

Oh and by the way. Still today microsoft computers with "vista" still outsells apple 30 to 1
post #34 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by ekeefe41 View Post

Here is what i believe, it is based on nothing more than my opinion.

The iphone is a revolutionary new product.
So were the 1st gui based mac's

The Iphone is tightly controlled by Apple
So were the 1st gui mac's

The Iphone will fail the same way the original mac's did because of the tight hardware/software control. People will stop looking at their cell phones as "phones" and see them for what they are... Mini computers. Once people get a feel for a 'mini computer cell phone' that they can customize any way they like only having to pay for the data/voice plan. This market will be flipped on it's head.

Apple is once again starting this tech revolution, but there game plan looks to be the same to me. They did loose the PC war you know.

It will fail just like the iPod, right? This isn't 1985 and the board of Apple is moronic and allows Jobs to be just the Chairman while they find someone to run the company as CEO.

This is 2008 and Steve knows how to run Apple and basically an OS company better than anyone else on the planet.

Microsoft would never have become the 800lb gorilla if Apple wasn't so retarded as to listening to a former CEO of Pepsi convince them to oust Jobs. In hindsight, NeXT was formed along-side PIXAR so the world has received much more due to their ignorance--it just took a damn long time to drudge through crap to get to where we now stand.
post #35 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

..and the complete and utter failure of the "tightly controlled software+hardware" device (and ecosystem) known as the AppleTV......

Care to explain why/how AppleTv is a "...complete and utter failure"? Compared to what?

(FWIW, I've now had @TV for about 6 months, and I have to say that my overall experience with it has been fantastic: It has amazingly simplified my multimedia life at home. Do you own/use it?)
post #36 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by ekeefe41 View Post

Funny, everyone i know hates that they are forced to use Itunes if they buy an ipod.......

Wow, and yet, it has a 75% market share in the US.

(This is what economists call "cheap talk.")
post #37 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by ekeefe41 View Post

All you guys are saying "price won the PC war".
Well what caused the price difference?

The ability to install the windows OS on and hardware made for competition.
Competition breeds price drops.
Competition also breeds also new developments.

This all still fits my point...
Apple=Socialist Computing
Windows=Free market computing

Again the iphone business model looks the same to me.

Economy of scale breeds price drops, too. And that's why Apple can make an iPod cheaper than anyone else. The fact that they can also sell an iPod for more than most others is also interesting, and why their margins remain so insanely high. But if it came to a pure MP3 player price war, Apple could win. By the time Android comes around, Apple will also be buying all the phone parts in bulk and have suppliers locked in for long term cheap parts.

And when it comes to building an iPod, it's all about Han Hai's ability to compete in a free market, not Apple's. Apple bids out manufacturing to low bidders, who are competing with each other to build their device cheaper.

There are a lot of interesting questions if you want to make these comparisons. Will Android software purchased for a T-Mobile phone run on a Verizon Android phone? What about operating system updates? I feel like Google is basically just another MontaVista, WindRiver, or RedHat playing at the Apple game.
post #38 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbmcavoy View Post

So, how does this apply to phones? Sure, some people need a basic phone, and others need a high-end smartphone. Android may allow the same OS to support a wide range of hardware - but is it going to enable the hardware customization of a Windows PC? No.

Ahhhh... yes it does.
Different hardware company will make different competing hardware with different configurations and options.

Samsung will make a different phone than HTC....
post #39 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by ekeefe41 View Post

What is Apple's market share in the PC market again???

6.1%

They lost the PC war, get over it. I don't want to derail this in to a apple/windows conversation. My point is there business plan looks strikingly familiar to the old PC business plan. I also thing the company that takes the lead in the cell phone OS market will be the next "windows" (business wise that is)

You are working on old assumption and business logic from the 90's. Marketshare is important to a degree, but certainly not the entire story.

Apple's current ability to sell computers over $1000. Apple's revenue, profit, stock price, and market valuation. Versus Dell and HP go to show that their are other factors just as important as market share.

You've missed how Windows need to be everything to everybody has proven to be a liability. Windows is not able to have the ability to change the way Apple can change Mac OS.
post #40 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Wow, and yet, it has a 75% market share in the US.

(This is what economists call "cheap talk.")

I didn't say people didn't buy them, i said people didn't like it....
Most Windows users if given the opportunity would cut the ties of Itunes and Ipod.

Just ask someone who uses windows. You may have a hard time finding one. Only like 90% of people that have a PC use windows.
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