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Retail sources say its closing time for current iPod line - Page 2

post #41 of 82
8/20/08 at 6:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobBIT View Post

Great! And that works on every single train, plane and subway? You know, places where I like to listen to music.

Streaming is limited to places with good reception. In the middle of no where or in places where 3G (or even EDGE) doesn't work - it is useless.
You know how many times I'm annoyed because I can't check a web page or even just my email due to poor reception? If that would suddenly also apply to all my music I'd be upset.

No, it's not the future - certainly not the near future.

That's why the iPod touch and iPhone have at least an 8GB "cache".
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post #42 of 82
8/20/08 at 6:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregAlexander View Post

I'm actually surprised that it's not marketed as the perfect companion for a MacBook Air.

Better yet - currently with iTunes we have our whole library on the computer (say 40GB for example) and sync a smaller amount to our iPod Nano (say 7GB). It's a pity that we can't have our whole library on our iPod Classic (say 40GB) and sync a smaller amount to our MacBook (7GB).

Turn the model on its head. Make the classic the device where all our media is stored and free up space on the computer.

Brilliant... use the small, portable, frequently lost, dropped or broken device as the primary storage device, and the larger, more secure, harder to steal device as the secondary....
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post #43 of 82
8/20/08 at 6:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregAlexander View Post

I'm actually surprised that it's not marketed as the perfect companion for a MacBook Air.

Better yet - currently with iTunes we have our whole library on the computer (say 40GB for example) and sync a smaller amount to our iPod Nano (say 7GB). It's a pity that we can't have our whole library on our iPod Classic (say 40GB) and sync a smaller amount to our MacBook (7GB).

Turn the model on its head. Make the classic the device where all our media is stored and free up space on the computer.

(ps. Same could work for the 160GB AppleTV. Use that as the media repository, sync a subset to your laptop).

I really like your idea. But isn't it more dangerous to put all your media collection on a portable device? You can lose everything you have if it's stolen or damaged.

Edit: Whoops, cameronj got it first.
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post #44 of 82
8/20/08 at 6:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenaustus View Post

I believe that the Classic will stay on the market because it is the only one with the drive space that it provides.

I'm one that used the HD feature to use the largest part of my Classic for data backup when traveling on business. Longest flights were in the 14 - 15 hour range and the Classic was perfect - both a backup and an iPod.

For others it's carrying around their full CD collection (as well as their friends) and for others it can be a backup for their pic collection, etc.

If it sells at a profit then keep it, or put the HD in a touch to replace it. Capacity has its place in the mobile market.

I bought my first LP (Beethoven's 3 third symphony) when I was 11, and bought quite a few each month for many years after. I started buying CD's finally in the late mid '80's. Actually, my buying isn't nearly as great as many people I know. One friend has over 20,000 LPs, and over 10,000 CDs. Most people I know have close to as many as myself, to between mine and my other friend. My old LPs cost about $4.50 in those early '60s dollars, and went up from there as time went by. Using this site, one can check what the dollar was was worth in earlier days. $4.50 in todays dollars would be $31.18.

http://www.westegg.com/inflation/

A number of them have started buying music servers. I'm thinking of doing that as well.
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post #45 of 82
8/20/08 at 7:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregAlexander View Post

I'm actually surprised that it's not marketed as the perfect companion for a MacBook Air.

Turn the model on its head. Make the classic the device where all our media is stored and free up space on the computer.

(ps. Same could work for the 160GB AppleTV. Use that as the media repository, sync a subset to your laptop).

Funny you should say that, but it's true. I've actually told people to do that.
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post #46 of 82
8/20/08 at 7:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

Brilliant... use the small, portable, frequently lost, dropped or broken device as the primary storage device, and the larger, more secure, harder to steal device as the secondary....

He's not quite saying that.

It's more like a backup for your portable. I would think that the collection would be on your main system at home, or perhaps a network storage device thats much bigger.
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post #47 of 82
8/20/08 at 7:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Restalot View Post

Wow, at $0.99 per song, (or $9.99 per CD you've bought over the years), that is a huge investment in music... of course you would never consider securing a copy of music for yourself without compensating the artist in some way... would you?

There are many older people who used to BUY music in various formats. I still do. I have almost 8000 CD plus LPs and so on. I have been loading many of my CDs onto my Mac and backup HDs. I would love to have as much of that music as possible on an iPod to take to my studio or my office where I hook up to real STEREOS. Not via mini headsets. I want the best Hi Fi possible and I am not alone.

Yes most people use iPods on the go and HI FI quality does not matter much to them. But many use the Classic as their record collection away from home and play not though computers or headphones but through really great speakers.

I'm 50 and even my 18 year son now knows the difference in sound quality. Maybe a couple of hundred songs I got free but they are alternate versions or demos that are not available commercially. I am so for supporting artists and hate those who feel entitled to download for free
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post #48 of 82
8/20/08 at 7:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lastmiracle View Post

I really like your idea. But isn't it more dangerous to put all your media collection on a portable device? You can lose everything you have if it's stolen or damaged.

Edit: Whoops, cameronj got it first.

To be honest, yes it is (for the iPod). The AppleTV I'd be less concerned about.

Of course, if you don't have the hard disk space currently, what do you do now? Simply not go beyond 7GB?

ps.
Ideally you'd still back up your iPod library via TimeMachine. My music is backed up now.
Forgetting the iPod itself, I'd like to have my main iTunes library on an external disk, selectively syncing a small subset of my media to my internal disk (and a large subset, or all of it, to my iPod)
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post #49 of 82
8/20/08 at 8:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzy View Post

There are many older people who used to BUY music in various formats. I still do. I have almost 8000 CD plus LPs and so on. I have been loading many of my CDs onto my Mac and backup HDs. I would love to have as much of that music as possible on an iPod to take to my studio or my office where I hook up to real STEREOS. Not via mini headsets. I want the best Hi Fi possible and I am not alone.

Yes most people use iPods on the go and HI FI quality does not matter much to them. But many use the Classic as their record collection away from home and play not though computers or headphones but through really great speakers.

I'm 50 and even my 18 year son now knows the difference in sound quality. Maybe a couple of hundred songs I got free but they are alternate versions or demos that are not available commercially. I am so for supporting artists and hate those who feel entitled to download for free

That's right. I buy all of my music, and I've refrained from buying from iTunes for the same reason you gave (well, except for the Clash London is Burning music video, but it IS the Clash!)
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post #50 of 82
8/20/08 at 8:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

That's right. I buy all of my music, and I've refrained from buying from iTunes for the same reason you gave (well, except for the Clash London is Burning music video, but it IS the Clash!)

Yes and I have bought itunes only releases by Beck, Randy Newman, Costello, Dylan and several songs or albums I can't seem to find anywhere else. But being in San Francisco I can buy amazing catalogue CDs fused for half the price and twice the quality than I can via iTunes. An album on iTunes should cost five bucks. No shipping or packaging and lesser quality!!!!!!!!!!
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post #51 of 82
8/20/08 at 8:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lastmiracle View Post

But isn't it more dangerous to put all your media collection on a portable device?

Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lastmiracle View Post

I really like your idea.

Why?
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post #52 of 82
8/20/08 at 9:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzy View Post

Yes and I have bought itunes only releases by Beck, Randy Newman, Costello, Dylan and several songs or albums I can't seem to find anywhere else. But being in San Francisco I can buy amazing catalogue CDs fused for half the price and twice the quality than I can via iTunes. An album on iTunes should cost five bucks. No shipping or packaging and lesser quality!!!!!!!!!!

I don't count it as a buy really, but I have bought a few songs that I wanted to listen to before buying an album, or was curious about. I save them, but use the album instead. My wife, on the other hand, has bought at least a couple hundred songs. She buys folk, country classics, etc. Sometimes they're impossible to get otherwise. She only listens to them on her computer.
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post #53 of 82
8/20/08 at 9:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jouster View Post

Why?

If you had a MacBook Air, lots of music/media, and a 160GB iPod - how would you choose to access your media?
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post #54 of 82
8/20/08 at 11:22pm
I was a DJ in college and got tons of CDs from the record companies as well as the used bins at the shops. I was well over 1000 when I started selling them off. I was just one person on a staff of about 40 in one University Radio station out of how many hundreds? Oh, and the staff turn over abut 10% every year due to graduations and incoming students -- oh, and this is just on potential target market for the classic, I'm sure there are many other examples. Music is a big deal to us and we want it all in one place that can be on the go (in addition to our computer and the 3 DVD back-up sets I have at home, work and my parents house - just to make sure I never lose it!
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post #55 of 82
8/21/08 at 1:30am
As somebody with over half a terrabyte of music (mostly Apple Lossless), I am just glad that simplify media is here. Storing your music on your portable device is so 20th century.

I just look forward to the day when our portable devices have a wider highway to exchange data so that I can beam full Apple Lossless format to wherever I happen to be.
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post #56 of 82
8/21/08 at 4:29am
I'm always a little baffled when people suggest that 160G is more than big enough for anyone. What they actually mean is that it's more than big enough for them and anyone else with a collection smaller than 160G.
Personally my ideal would be a pairing of ipod classic with enough room for my whole collection (so it would need to be around 200G - I don't know why anyone would want a bigger one!) for when I go away and a nano that is big enough to take a few classics plus at least a years worth of new stuff plus a selection of podcasts for everyday lightweight use. Unfortunately 8G isn't enough for this so I'm waiting hopefully for a 16G choice in a few weeks time. I know there's a 16G itouch but I'm one of those that likes to control my ipod without looking at it.
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post #57 of 82
8/21/08 at 4:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Restalot View Post

Wow, at $0.99 per song, (or $9.99 per CD you've bought over the years), that is a huge investment in music... of course you would never consider securing a copy of music for yourself without compensating the artist in some way... would you?

That's assuming someone is stupid enough to limit themselves to purchasing music from only the iTunes Store. Smart shoppers don't lock themselves into one store for purchases. I have over 7000 LEGALLY ACQUIRED songs on my iPod and it didn't cost me anywhere near the $4000-7000 your math would imply (I think I have around 400 CD's). Less than 5% of that is from the iTunes Store and many of those are the weekly free tracks.
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post #58 of 82
8/21/08 at 5:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregAlexander View Post

If you had a MacBook Air, lots of music/media, and a 160GB iPod - how would you choose to access your media?

On my desktop, or larger laptop. Wait, you don't honestly mean that someone is dumb enough to use an Air as their primary computer, right?
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post #59 of 82
8/21/08 at 5:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnW View Post

I'm always a little baffled when people suggest that 160G is more than big enough for anyone.

No one is saying that. What people are saying is that <100 GB (no one would suggest that 16 GB fits this description) makes for a large enough iPod that the market for anything larger is largely pointless (in terms of size) for Apple to chase.
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post #60 of 82
8/21/08 at 7:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmc6000 View Post

Have you ever done a placebo test? I.E. Encode in 256 AAC vs Lossless and see if you can hear the difference without knowing which one you are listening to?

Honestly, no, and I don't have the equipment for it. Lossless is, however, far more useful for archival and transcoding purposes. And disk space is cheap, but that hardly matters if Apple choose to not provide it.

/Adrian
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post #61 of 82
8/21/08 at 9:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

No one is saying that. What people are saying is that <100 GB (no one would suggest that 16 GB fits this description) makes for a large enough iPod that the market for anything larger is largely pointless (in terms of size) for Apple to chase.

Sorry, this is one of the posts that I obviously misinterpreted:
"Classic should not go beyong 160Gb. That's just insane."

There must be a significant market of people who, like me, decide that there's no point in buying a new ipod until they can squeeze their entire collection onto it.
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post #62 of 82
8/21/08 at 10:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zandros View Post

Honestly, no, and I don't have the equipment for it. Lossless is, however, far more useful for archival and transcoding purposes. And disk space is cheap, but that hardly matters if Apple choose to not provide it.

Besides that. The music you will presumably keep for many years. A lot longer than you'll keep your current equipment. With this in mind you may one day have the equipment to determine the difference between 192, 256 or 320kbps AAC so it would be proactive to have a backup of the best possible audio you can.
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post #63 of 82
8/21/08 at 11:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galley View Post

The classic is dead. Streaming your library over Wi-Fi, or even over the Internet is the future.

Some of us actually spend time outside, even out of wifi range on occasion.
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post #64 of 82
8/21/08 at 12:14pm
Has the price for flash memory reached the point where a 64GB iPod Touch could be offered at $499, the current price of the 32GB?

Of course, from a consumer point-of-view it would be nice for a 16GB iPod Touch to ring in at $199, a 32GB at $299 and a 64GB at $399, but I doubt the economics are there yet.
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post #65 of 82
8/21/08 at 1:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCodger73 View Post

Has the price for flash memory reached the point where a 64GB iPod Touch could be offered at $499, the current price of the 32GB?

Of course, from a consumer point-of-view it would be nice for a 16GB iPod Touch to ring in at $199, a 32GB at $299 and a 64GB at $399, but I doubt the economics are there yet.

Not even close. The cheapest price I see right now for 32GB in that size chip is $323... and it's not even available yet. Why 32GB? Because the iPod Touch and iPhone use two chips together to make the capacity of the device. This severely cuts down cost without increasing size much.

Apple may have decided to go with 4 Flash modules so they can get 64GB, but I doubt they would go that route. I know Dell is now selling 128GB SSDs for $450 but I think those are 2.5" drives and 64GB SSDs that are available are for 1.8" drives.

The two chips in the Touch are labelled as Toshiba K93919:

(Larger image)
(Size comparison to the rest of the device)
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post #66 of 82
8/21/08 at 7:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Not even close. The cheapest price I see right now for 32GB in that size chip is $323... and it's not even available yet. Why 32GB? Because the iPod Touch and iPhone use two chips together to make the capacity of the device. This severely cuts down cost without increasing size much.

Apple may have decided to go with 4 Flash modules so they can get 64GB, but I doubt they would go that route. I know Dell is now selling 128GB SSDs for $450 but I think those are 2.5" drives and 64GB SSDs that are available are for 1.8" drives.

The two chips in the Touch are labelled as Toshiba K93919:

(Larger image)
(Size comparison to the rest of the device)

Where is Dell selling 128 SSD's for $450?

Just a few months ago, they were going for almost $3,000.
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post #67 of 82
8/21/08 at 7:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Where is Dell selling 128 SSD's for $450?

Just a few months ago, they were going for almost $3,000.

http://gizmodo.com/5036331/dell-offe...aptops-for-450 If you click the Dell link it still lists the $450 upgrade price.
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post #68 of 82
8/21/08 at 7:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

http://gizmodo.com/5036331/dell-offe...aptops-for-450 If you click the Dell link it still lists the $450 upgrade price.

Interesting. So the drive is actually selling for about $650. I wonder how they got that price.

If this isn't some Dell deal that's losing money for them, as they sometimes do, then it's a breakthrough.

Until we see others selling the drive for about the same price though, we won't know if this is an official Samsung drive priced for the general market, or some special Dell thing.
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post #69 of 82
8/21/08 at 7:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Interesting. So the drive is actually selling for about $650. I wonder how they got that price.

If this isn't some Dell deal that's losing money for them, as they sometimes do, then it's a breakthrough.

Until we see others selling the drive for about the same price though, we won't know if this is an official Samsung drive priced for the general market, or some special Dell thing.

Are you basing that by adding the price of the 250GB HDD, because Google has 2.5" drives for as low as $70?

They might be, but how much are they willing to lose to get a sale. Since these are 2.5" drives, not the 1.8" drives used in the MBA which can now be had for $600 on the upgrade and no less than $300 on Google Shopping, those same size Flash chips can easily make 2x1.8" SSDs into one 2.5" SSD without introducing any density, but the price still seems prohibitive.
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post #70 of 82
8/21/08 at 8:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Are you basing that by adding the price of the 250GB HDD, because Google has 2.5" drives for as low as $70?

They might be, but how much are they willing to lose to get a sale. Since these are 2.5" drives, not the 1.8" drives used in the MBA which can now be had for $600 on the upgrade and no less than $300 on Google Shopping, those same size Flash chips can easily make 2x1.8" SSDs into one 2.5" SSD without introducing any density, but the price still seems prohibitive.

Dell isn't selling a 320GB 2.5" HDD for $70 you can be sure.

But these prices seem very low for this time.
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post #71 of 82
8/21/08 at 8:04pm
Newegg has three 2.5" 128GB SSDs available for the following prices: $455, $519 & $3,049. I wonder how the speed of the speeds compare to each other.

•

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...CH&srchInDesc=
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post #72 of 82
8/21/08 at 8:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Dell isn't selling a 320GB 2.5" HDD for $70 you can be sure.

But these prices seem very low for this time.

But 250GB HDD is the base size with 320GB HDD being $70.
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post #73 of 82
8/21/08 at 9:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

On my desktop, or larger laptop. Wait, you don't honestly mean that someone is dumb enough to use an Air as their primary computer, right?

You're not honestly saying you'd buy an Air AND another laptop? If you had a larger Mac to manage your media, how would you access that media on the MBA?

Anyway, let me give my real example rather than making up possibilities. I have a MBP and an 80GB iPod. I also backup all my data (including music) to an external hard drive, and I have an old slow Mac in another room I could use for something if I wanted.

I don't want to use 80GB of my MBP, but I would happily fill up my iPod. I want to manage my music & TV from my MBP, and I want it to be seamless. I can see 2 ways I WISH I could solve this.
1) Have all 80GB on my iPod, and sync 30GB to my MBP. Backup all of it to external disk.
2) Have my 80GB library on the external disk, and sync 30GB to my MBP local disk, and 80GB to my iPod.
That way my iPod always has all my data, and when I've got my laptop on its own it has 30GB of content I want.
At present my only options seem to be:
3) use an external library entirely, with no 'portable' library while mobile
4) manage my files myself and place music/video I don't want portable on my external disk, with 30GB of content I want on my local disk. Manually delete/move files as required.
5) Keep a smaller library and just use half my iPod.

If you have another suggestion I'm very interested.
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post #74 of 82
8/21/08 at 10:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Newegg has three 2.5" 128GB SSDs available for the following prices: $455, $519 & $3,049. I wonder how the speed of the speeds compare to each other.

•

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...CH&srchInDesc=

I'm familiar with the $3,000 one. not with the others. They must be much slower, using older chips, and more power.

So Dell is putting an older, slow drive in the machine. That makes more sense..
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post #75 of 82
8/21/08 at 10:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

But 250GB HDD is the base size with 320GB HDD being $70.

Do you mean that the 320 costs $70 MORE than the base size? It can't cost $70, if the 250 is the base size. That would mean that they charge nothing for that, which can't be correct. They may not break out that price, but you know it is being charged for. If the 320 is going for $70 more, then it likely costs the consumer about $200. I think it's likely that they're charging at least $100 for the base 250.
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post #76 of 82
8/21/08 at 10:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Do you mean that the 320 costs $70 MORE than the base size? It can't cost $70, if the 250 is the base size. That would mean that they charge nothing for that, which can't be correct. They may not break out that price, but you know it is being charged for. If the 320 is going for $70 more, then it likely costs the consumer about $200. I think it's likely that they're charging at least $100 for the base 250.

Yes, more. Google Shopping has a 250GB $70, while Newegg has one for $80. The Dell upgrade price from the link above is an additional $70 for the 320GB drive.
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post #77 of 82
8/21/08 at 10:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Yes, more. Google Shopping has a 250GB $70, while Newegg has one for $80. The Dell upgrade price from the link above is an additional $70 for the 320GB drive.

I just don't think that Dell is charging the same as those online stores. I think they're getting a bit more for the base model.
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post #78 of 82
8/23/08 at 6:27pm
Who gives a flying fuck what Dell et al is selling? What matters is that Apple keep the Classic in one form or another (preferably the same form factor).

Some of us are fed up with 'features' that we don't want or need. Give us an 'old fashioned' iPod with tons of storage and a player that just does music and does it well! Nice that it can store files/photos/video etc... but first and foremost this thing is a MUSIC PLAYER. Remember that!
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post #79 of 82
8/23/08 at 6:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiMac View Post

Some of us are fed up with 'features' that we don't want or need. Give us an 'old fashioned' iPod with tons of storage and a player that just does music and does it well! Nice that it can store files/photos/video etc... but first and foremost this thing is a MUSIC PLAYER. Remember that!

I [don't] think it can't happen [either[, at least not yet, because of people like you that would probably jump to a competing brand if they did. I don't think it will change at except for a price drop.
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post #80 of 82
8/23/08 at 7:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I think it can't happen, at least nit yet because of people like you that would probably jump to a competing brand if they did. I don't think it will change at except for a price drop.

Why not? That is a ridiculous assumption because I personally do not have the desire to change or jump to a 'competing brand'. The Classic iPod is a market icon and as such should not be meddled with too much. I own two Macs and have all my music saved to external HD's formatted in HFS+ in AAC. I'm more or less tied in to the Apple format and as such need an Apple music player ala iPod. Not just 'need' but want an Apple player! This is a brand that I have invested heavily in (just like a lot of people on this board) and I expect Apple to support their existing user base. If they don't then this would be tantamount to economic suicide.

Not only that, why discontinue or kill a best selling product just because some people think that this would be 'progress'? Think Coca Cola and their dalliance with 'New" Coke! Now that was a marketing disaster! If Apple kill the Classic then we may just see a shift to competing products... do we want that? I'm pretty sure Apple don't!
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