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Class action suit claims Apple deceived over iPhone 3G speeds

post #1 of 212
Thread Starter 
A lawsuit filed on Tuesday by an Alabama woman alleges that Apple has touted doubled Internet speeds with iPhone 3G when a rash of connection problems have made those speeds seemingly impossible to reach.

In the 10-page complaint, Jessica Smith of Birmingham asserts that Apple's marketing campaign is a breach of express warranty as it promises Internet access "twice as fast" as with the original where the practical experience has fallen well short of the mark.

Always referring to the device as the "Defective iPhone 3G," Smith and her legal team assert that e-mail, text, and most other downloads were considerably slower than what Apple promised. This in no small part stemmed from the reliability of the connection: the device would connect to 3G less than a quarter of the time to 3G even in areas AT&T says should provide "excellent" coverage, according to the lawsuit.

The connection problem has also resulted in an "inordinate" number of dropped phone calls, the filing adds.

Smith is also certain she isn't alone and appears to rely on Internet reports as support for the class action nature of the suit. As there have been many complaints of slowdowns or outright connection problems with the phone, the complaint reads, the number of affected users is said to potentially run into the "tens of thousands." It's thus seen as more accurate and more comprehensive to represent all those iPhone owners in a single suit than to deal with individual cases.

To compensate for Apple's purportedly false advertising, Smith and those who may join her suit would receive damages and also order the Cupertino, Calif.-based company to either fix iPhones or replace them if necessary.

Apple has kept to its longstanding silence on legal matters and hasn't commented on the pioneering lawsuit, which is the first to tackle iPhone connection woes; however, Apple has confirmed that its recent iPhone 2.0.2 update addresses some of the problems.
post #2 of 212
I'm sorry, but this is total crap. I understand that many people are frustrated with the 3G issues, but the fact of the matter is that Apple expressly stated that these speeds were faster over a 3G connection, and they are.

I just don't see how issues with connectivity that appear to be limited to <10% of users can be considered false advertising.

Maybe if the case were claiming defective products in a limited number of cases, and could prove that they were defective, it would be worth a damn.

My guess is that this is a bored lawyer and a stupid complainant.
post #3 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by iCarbon View Post

I'm sorry, but this is total crap. I understand that many people are frustrated with the 3G issues, but the fact of the matter is that Apple expressly stated that these speeds were faster over a 3G connection, and they are.

I just don't see how issues with connectivity that appear to be limited to <10% of users can be considered false advertising.

Maybe if the case were claiming defective products in a limited number of cases, and could prove that they were defective, it would be worth a damn.

My guess is that this is a bored lawyer and a stupid complainant.

Nah - it's a ploy by MS and RIM to try to get some negative press for the iPhone

I'm with you tho - this seems like a bit of a paper-thin argument and a good lawyer (of which Apple has plenty) could defeat it. I wonder if the 2.0.2 update fixed it for her - now wouldn't that be funny - haha.

By the time this ever makes it to any real resolution Apple will have released another update that should fix the problem for all but maybe .5% of people at most.

Required Vista upgrades killed my audio card - I think I should file a class action suit...
post #4 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Smith is also certain she isn't alone and appears to rely on Internet reports as support for the class action nature of the suit.

Let's see Smith rely on my Internet report.

The iPhone 3G has worked very well for me. It's been reasonably reliable--more reliable than my HTC 8525 and Treo 650--and it's more than twice as fast as my original iPhone. Furthermore, when Apple advertises twice as fast, it doesn't say twice as fast all the time or everywhere. Nor does Apple say how they measure the speed. Such is the nature of advertising!

Jessica Smith: are you unhappy with your purchase? RETURN IT.
post #5 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post

Let's see Smith rely on my Internet report.

The iPhone 3G has worked very well for me. It's been reasonably reliable--more reliable than my HTC 8525 and Treo 650--and it's more than twice as fast as my original iPhone. Furthermore, when Apple advertises twice as fast, it doesn't say twice as fast all the time or everywhere. Nor does Apple say how they measure the speed. Such is the nature of advertising!

Jessica Smith: are you unhappy with your purchase? RETURN IT.

haha - I wish it were that simple (returning it). They'll undoubtedly throw something around about how Apple "violated her rights" or something as equally cliché.
post #6 of 212
3G on the iPhone, when you've got it, delivers 2x and much much more.

This woman is a venomous money sucker.

She's not thinking how she can get a better product, though.
She's just seeing $$$ in her eyes.
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post #7 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmc6000 View Post

haha - I wish it were that simple (returning it). They'll undoubtedly throw something around about how Apple "violated her rights" or something as equally cliché.


there is no doubt that in a real world scenario the 3g iPhone is vastly inferior with actual 3g performance to comparison models from other companies.

Whether that is enough to win I don't know. If someone has upgraded due to the 3g aspect then I understand that they would feel disappointed.

win or lose giving this issue more publicity can only be a good thing...for all consumers.
post #8 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archipellago View Post

there is no doubt that in a real world scenario the 3g iPhone is vastly inferior with actual 3g performance to comparison models from other companies.

Whether that is enough to win I don't know. If someone has upgraded due to the 3g aspect then I understand that they would feel disappointed.

win or lose giving this issue more publicity can only be a good thing...for all consumers.

You were so quick to add your negative comments to the pile, I figure you must be using your iPhone 3G?
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post #9 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post

Let's see Smith rely on my Internet report.

The iPhone 3G has worked very well for me. It's been reasonably reliable--more reliable than my HTC 8525 and Treo 650--and it's more than twice as fast as my original iPhone. Furthermore, when Apple advertises twice as fast, it doesn't say twice as fast all the time or everywhere. Nor does Apple say how they measure the speed. Such is the nature of advertising!

Jessica Smith: are you unhappy with your purchase? RETURN IT.


I agree return it if you are not happy, there is a return policy or do lawyers only write the small print but not read it?

Have you looked at all of AT&Ts'/cingulars' complaints? Maybe you should cause when they were my provider well before the iPhone came out or even smart phones for that matter I had dropped calls like there was no tomorrow. I believe it's cause cingular had the worse network and AT&T inherited that. Maybe Apple should drop their contract with AT&T and jump on over to verizon, their network is rock solid. I'm sure there would be a hellava lot less complaints and lawsuits for that matter.
Fight the lawsuit to the death Apple, don't let these idiots who don't know how to use technology take you down.
post #10 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by justflybob View Post

You were so quick to add your negative comments to the pile, I figure you must be using your iPhone 3G?

how is the truth 'negative'..??
post #11 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archipellago View Post

there is no doubt that in a real world scenario the 3g iPhone is vastly inferior with actual 3g performance to comparison models from other companies.

Whether that is enough to win I don't know. If someone has upgraded due to the 3g aspect then I understand that they would feel disappointed.

win or lose giving this issue more publicity can only be a good thing...for all consumers.

Exactamundo. Right on the money.

I have two other 3G phones. Nokia N82 and Nokia E61. I will concede that the iPhone has a better browser, but if I go to the same web page with the iPhone (BBC, CNN, MSNBC), the Nokia's simply get there first. This is not a scientific test by any means but I bet her suit gets traction because her claims will for the most part be verifiable. The iPhone is not slow but it is not as fast as other 3G phones. Apple better shit a solution and fast.
post #12 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by iCarbon View Post

I just don't see how issues with connectivity that appear to be limited to <10% of users can be considered false advertising.

In fact... the lawsuit says it could have tens of thousands of people affected. With over a million phones sold, is she admitting that <1% may be affected?

I'd love to see Apple respond by saying "we will accept the return of your iPhone 3G and at our cost move you back to the original iPhone on your original contract". I think that would be entirely fair.

(ps. Our 3G at the office is terrible. Haven't tried 2.02 yet. We just want the phone to see that 3G is erratic and stay on 2G... though I realise that does take some phone intelligence not to continually say:

1. I'm a happy iPhone on 2G.
2. oooh I can see 3G I'll try to connect
3. Yay connected
4. can't seem to get a good signal
5. drop to 2G
6. go to 1.

I think that's what the iPhone is doing at the moment. We just need it to say "oooh I can see the office wifi, do not attempt 3G!". That wouldn't help other low-reception areas but would be a great boost for us.)
post #13 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by alfior73 View Post


I agree return it if you are not happy, there is a return policy or do lawyers only write the small print but not read it?

Have you looked at all of AT&Ts'/cingulars' complaints? Maybe you should cause when they were my provider well before the iPhone came out or even smart phones for that matter I had dropped calls like there was no tomorrow. I believe it's cause cingular had the worse network and AT&T inherited that. Maybe Apple should drop their contract with AT&T and jump on over to verizon, their network is rock solid. I'm sure there would be a hellava lot less complaints and lawsuits for that matter.
Fight the lawsuit to the death Apple, don't let these idiots who don't know how to use technology take you down.

Rah, Rah, Sis-boom-bah. More cheerleading. How is expecting what you paid for not knowing how to use the technology? You don't seem to know what you are talking about but you still figured out how to post drivel. She has a valid point. The iPhone is not performing as advertised. Apple can make all of this go away by getting a fix out there fast. Many, many phone issues of a network nature can be fixed with software. Nokia did it with their N95. One patch and the battery life doubled.

Think before you post.
post #14 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

if I go to the same web page with the iPhone (BBC, CNN, MSNBC), the Nokia's simply get there first. This is not a scientific test by any means but I bet her suit gets traction because her claims will for the most part be verifiable.

The lawsuit is suing because Apple said the iPhone 3G is twice as fast as the original iPhone. There's no lawsuit about it being faster or slower than Nokia etc.
post #15 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregAlexander View Post

The lawsuit is suing because Apple said the iPhone 3G is twice as fast as the original iPhone. There's no lawsuit about it being faster or slower than Nokia etc.

Right but a 3G phone has to fall into certain performance parameters. If the iPhone fails then it is not performing as a 3G phone. There are network issues that come into play as well, but with all being equal, if the iPhone can not perform at the same level as another 3G phone, then the iPhone is failing. It is that simple.
post #16 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregAlexander View Post

The lawsuit is suing because Apple said the iPhone 3G is twice as fast as the original iPhone. There's no lawsuit about it being faster or slower than Nokia etc.

well she'll win then...surely?

also a breach of contract cannot force the affected to re-take the old rescinded contract.

a breach is a breach is a breach.

would be funny if 3g reception in the courthouse was supposedly good but 'poor' on iphone.!

/
post #17 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

Rah, Rah, Sis-boom-bah. More cheerleading. How is expecting what you paid for not knowing how to use the technology? You don't seem to know what you are talking about but you still figured out how to post drivel. She has a valid point. The iPhone is not performing as advertised. Apple can make all of this go away by getting a fix out there fast. Many, many phone issues of a network nature can be fixed with software. Nokia did it with their N95. One patch and the battery life doubled.

Think before you post.

drival hahaha whatever keep believing everything that is advertised.

1. Take a look at her area network for performance, is everyone having issues in her area or just her?
I mean she could be sitting behind walls that interfere with reception(happens @ wal-mart)
2. Did she investigate all these things before buying the iPhone, nope only once she bought it.

It's called consumer spending.

Also I agree with you that Apple could improve on the technology but do you seriously have to start a lawsuit to get attention or become greedy over it?
post #18 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archipellago View Post

well she'll win then...surely?

also a breach of contract cannot force the affected to re-take the old rescinded contract.

a breach is a breach is a breach.

would be funny if 3g reception in the courthouse was supposedly good but 'poor' on iphone.!

/

here are the legal caveats for apple's 3g representations... you could drive a LARGE truck through these... we'll see - there may be a false advertising claim outside of a class action breach claim:

Testing conducted by Apple in May and June 2008 using preproduction 3G/EDGE-capable iPhone units and software and currently shipping EDGE-capable iPhone units and software. Testing was conducted by browsing to http://www.lonelyplanet.com and measured uncached page load performance. All settings were default except: Call Forwarding was turned on; the Wi-Fi feature Ask to Join Networks and Auto-Brightness were turned off. Wi-Fi was enabled but not associated with a network. Throughput depends on the cellular network, location, signal strength, 3G/EDGE connectivity, feature configuration, usage, the Internet, and many other factors. Throughput tests are conducted using specific iPhone units; actual results may vary.
post #19 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

In the 10-page complaint, Jessica Smith of Birmingham asserts that Apple's marketing campaign is a breach of express warranty as it promises Internet access "twice as fast" as with the original where the practical experience has fallen well short of the mark.

Apple promised no such thing. "Neither Apple nor AT&T has ever promised those rates to its iPhone subscribers. At the iPhone 3G’s introduction in June, Steve Jobs didn’t state the speed of the 2.5G EDGE standard that’s the fastest supported in the original iPhone—as fast as 200 Kbps with AT&T’s version—and then say that the iPhone 3G would be 3.5 to nearly 8 times faster. Instead, he showed a couple of examples, and talked about ranges of 2 to 3 times faster." Macworld http://www.macworld.com/article/1350...8/3gspeed.html

And as Apple states in addtion, (http://www.apple.com/iphone/features/wireless.html), "Testing conducted by Apple in May and June 2008 using preproduction 3G/EDGE-capable iPhone units and software and currently shipping EDGE-capable iPhone units and software. Testing was conducted by browsing to http://www.lonelyplanet.com and measured uncached page load performance. All settings were default except: Call Forwarding was turned on; the Wi-Fi feature Ask to Join Networks and Auto-Brightness were turned off. Wi-Fi was enabled but not associated with a network. Throughput depends on the cellular network, location, signal strength, 3G/EDGE connectivity, feature configuration, usage, the Internet, and many other factors. Throughput tests are conducted using specific iPhone units; actual results may vary." their butt is well covered.
post #20 of 212
Quote:
* Comparisons between iPhone 3G (8GB) and first-generation iPhone (8GB) running on EDGE. Actual speeds vary by site conditions.

What is possible and what actually happens is not false advertisement.

=)
post #21 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

Rah, Rah, Sis-boom-bah. More cheerleading. How is expecting what you paid for not knowing how to use the technology? You don't seem to know what you are talking about but you still figured out how to post drivel. She has a valid point. The iPhone is not performing as advertised. Apple can make all of this go away by getting a fix out there fast. Many, many phone issues of a network nature can be fixed with software. Nokia did it with their N95. One patch and the battery life doubled.

Think before you post.

Honestly, I don't think I've EVER had a product that performed as advertised and I'd challenge that none of you have either. Has your Mac ever crashed? Has an application ever froze on you? Have you ever had a non-maintainance related problem with your vehicle? Have those Dr. Sholls insoles made you start "gellin"? (Had to throw that one in there for comic relief ) That's advertising - they always advertise the best case scenario - if you're still thinking that every single thing you buy is going to be 100% error free then you don't understand the nature of manufacturing on the massive scale these companies are operating on.
post #22 of 212
I'm sure Apple's lawyers begged Steve not to say "twice as fast" in the advertising, but relented after a 10 hour screaming match.

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post #23 of 212
Ridiculous & asinine behavior. How was AT&T left out from consideration in such an ill-intended, not so well thought "let's make some money" kind of an idea. No argument there may be issues in quality of service, but how does an Alabama Lawyer (presumably) and a citizen of same believe that somebody's trying to dupe them or that there's a chance in he!! they'll ever see a dime. Waste of energy better spent on getting an education by finding a college out of state somewhere.

Word from a phrase by Forrest Gump: AlaBAMA...
post #24 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archipellago View Post

well she'll win then...surely?

also a breach of contract cannot force the affected to re-take the old rescinded contract.

a breach is a breach is a breach.

would be funny if 3g reception in the courthouse was supposedly good but 'poor' on iphone.!

/

Last time I checked my iPhone I actually got more than twice the speed with 3G vs Edge. Apple can argue that wireless reception is affected by many factors even for phones at the same location. Furthermore, Apple can also say that as with any product there are some defective units and they can offer her an exchange or a return. I doubt that this lawsuit will go to the end.
post #25 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

I'm sure Apple's lawyers begged Steve not to say "twice as fast" in the advertising, but relented after a 10 hour screaming match.

there's little doubt in my mind your right.. by the way the marketing campaign is still "twice as fast, half the price"
post #26 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by alfior73 View Post

drival hahaha whatever keep believing everything that is advertised.

1. Take a look at her area network for performance, is everyone having issues in her area or just her?
I mean she could be sitting behind walls that interfere with reception(happens @ wal-mart)
2. Did she investigate all these things before buying the iPhone, nope only once she bought it.

It's called consumer spending.

Also I agree with you that Apple could improve on the technology but do you seriously have to start a lawsuit to get attention or become greedy over it?

This lawsuit was in the making the moment the calls started dropping in the volumes that they were being reported. Apple should have come out and screamed that they had things under control, but they didn't. They climbed into the bunker and this now bit them in the tukus (butt). She is not the problem here as much as Apple is. There is enough blame to go around but at the end of the day, Apple got paid for delivering a product that might be faulty. There is not escaping this fact.
post #27 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmc6000 View Post

Honestly, I don't think I've EVER had a product that performed as advertised and I'd challenge that none of you have either. Has your Mac ever crashed? Has an application ever froze on you? Have you ever had a non-maintainance related problem with your vehicle? Have those Dr. Sholls insoles made you start "gellin"? (Had to throw that one in there for comic relief ) That's advertising - they always advertise the best case scenario - if you're still thinking that every single thing you buy is going to be 100% error free then you don't understand the nature of manufacturing on the massive scale these companies are operating on.

Oh I agree with you 10000 Blazillion of your earth percents, but we are getting into the weeds here. She is using generalities and experts to exploit these generalities (and they will) to try and prove that Apple mislead.
post #28 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

Last time I checked my iPhone I actually got more than twice the speed with 3G vs Edge. Apple can argue that wireless reception is effected by many factors even for phones at the same location. Furthermore, Apple can also say that as with any product there are some defective units and they can offer her an exchange or a return. I doubt that this lawsuit will go to the end.

You could have a point but, it is about perception now. Daily, the iPhone is viewed as a "flawed" product. Each hesitation of a sale or non-sale is lost money in Steve-o's pocket. This is about more than just broken phones. Apple as a company is on trial (not yet) to the public eye.
post #29 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archipellago View Post

well she'll win then...surely?

Only if she can show that
1. Apple advertised it was 2 times faster
2. This was false.

Determining if it was false - have to look at the research done to make that claim. If the research was good then what more could Apple do? Also the amount of people in real-world situations who DON'T get that speed increase would play some part (and I'd say that <1% not getting the boost wouldn't be enough).

We don't get Edge on our GSM network, so can't comment on speed change. 3G is certainly about 5-10 times faster than GPRS. In my office we get flakey 3G (and we are in a 3G area) so maybe we are considered part of that <1% who are not getting double speed (when in the office)?
post #30 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

Right but a 3G phone has to fall into certain performance parameters. If the iPhone fails then it is not performing as a 3G phone. There are network issues that come into play as well, but with all being equal, if the iPhone can not perform at the same level as another 3G phone, then the iPhone is failing. It is that simple.

That's not quite true. If the iPhone meets the performance standards but does "not perform at the same level as another 3G phone", it is simply not the best-performing phone. That hardly means it is failing.
post #31 of 212
I can't believe it! I hope she is going to lodge complaints for every other device manufacturer since she is bitching about Apple. All the other devices I have had aren't perfect either! Move on, and stop wasting our time with frivolous claims!
post #32 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by penchanted View Post

That's not quite true. If the iPhone meets the performance standards but does "not perform at the same level as another 3G phone", it is simply not the best-performing phone. That hardly means it is failing.

Yeah.
If you bought a V6 car which didn't perform as well as another V6, you couldn't really say it was failing and sue.
post #33 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

This lawsuit was in the making the moment the calls started dropping ........

Did you read the original post?

"Jessica Smith of Birmingham asserts that Apple's marketing campaign is a breach of express warranty as it promises Internet access "twice as fast" as with the original"

This woman is complaining about Apple's advertising. She believes that the "Twice as fast. Half the price" headline is misleading. I must have missed the ads where Apple promised that calls would "never be dropped". And the one that claimed that "3G never drops to 2G".
post #34 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregAlexander View Post

Yeah.
If you bought a V6 car which didn't perform as well as another V6, you couldn't really say it was failing and sue.

no - but depending on where you resided, for instance in the US, but again depending on what state - you might be able to get a new car or get your money back if the failing car could be defined as a "lemon" under your applicable state's lemon law....
post #35 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by penchanted View Post

That's not quite true. If the iPhone meets the performance standards but does "not perform at the same level as another 3G phone", it is simply not the best-performing phone. That hardly means it is failing.

Okay so performing substandard but still performing is a passing grade, but what if these performance parameters are not what Apple advertised? Then there is a problem. I would like to see the technical data on the performance. I think the fact that Apple finally came out and admitted there was a problem was what people (this lady) was waiting for. Apple admitted a problem in their phone.
post #36 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by piot View Post

Did you read the original post?

"Jessica Smith of Birmingham asserts that Apple's marketing campaign is a breach of express warranty as it promises Internet access "twice as fast" as with the original"

This woman is complaining about Apple's advertising. She believes that the "Twice as fast. Half the price" headline is misleading. I must have missed the ads where Apple promised that calls would "never be dropped". And the one that claimed that "3G never drops to 2G".

Right. I am talking about a problem AT ALL with the iPhone. Dropped calls, battery life, doesn't make coffee anymore, etc.... People were waiting for Apple to admit something was wrong and BLAM, out come the lawsuits. Wanna bet there will be more coming in the next few days?
post #37 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by onceuponamac View Post

no - but depending on where you resided, for instance in the US, but again depending on what state - you might be able to get a new car or get your money back if the failing car could be defined as a "lemon" under your applicable state's lemon law....

Is this related to what she's claiming with the "twice as fast" thing? Or is she suing for false advertising, as well as a lemon? I thought the lemon law referred to a specific car, rather than "all of this make/model".

Anyway - if the lemon law does relate to her lawsuit, is it anything to do with my comment? Being slower than a Nokia is not grounds to complain about the iPhone, that's all I said.

ps.
I'd love to see an unbiased report on all cell phones on all networks. My nokia drops more than 1 in 10 calls but I have no idea if my end dropped or their end dropped, etc. God... to get some USEFUL performance benchmarks...
post #38 of 212
I wonder what her lawyers think is the $$ value for the pain and suffering of her faster (but slower) iPhone 3G speeds?

$20k? 6 figures?

Can't wait to hear this one...
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post #39 of 212
I know that the phone plays a big roll in 3G connection, however, this 3G service is PROVIDED by AT&T not Apple. Now going off of that AT&T 3G connection are different all over the US. No two cites have the same 3G connection speed. For example, Chicago, New York, LA, big important cities to AT&T like those will have and do have a faster 3G connection than I do in Minneapolis. That is all AT&T. Apple has no control over this. Also, I love how she is using the internet as her hard facts and completely believing what AT&T has told her about 3G connection. Do you really think AT&T would tell you the truth about real connection speeds for their 3G network...ummm no.

Well Mrs. Smith I wish you the best, but I'm sure Apple gets plenty of pointless lawsuits sent to them every week and yours is no different than the rest. Might as well stop now before you receive a cease and desist letter from Apples army of amazing lawyers.
post #40 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zendolphyn View Post

I wonder what her lawyers think is the $$ value for the pain and suffering of her faster (but slower) iPhone 3G speeds?

$20k? 6 figures?

Can't wait to hear this one...

Personally, I would settle for a new phone.
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