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Joe Biden - Subprime Vice President

post #1 of 143
Thread Starter 
OpenSecrets.org(PDF)

I guess this is one way to counter the "elitism" tag.

I'm not claiming that anyone running for executive office needs to be wealthy but shouldn't they and those who will assist and influence them at least know how to balance their own books before they claim they want to handle those of the country?

It turns out that Joseph Biden is the poorest member of the Senate, is 65 years old and likely has a huge negative net-worth. His net-worth is listed as From $-302,980 to $277,997 by OpenSecrets.org. He keeps dozens of lines of credit, a new one opened every couple of years and together they add up to huge sums for a guy who has had a better paying job than most for basically his entire adult life.

Biden became a senator at age 30 (5th youngest ever) and has never had to suffer a downsizing, lay-off or threat of his job moving overseas yet he can't save a dime. I don't know if I would rent the guy a house, so why would I want him for Vice-President. It also shows terrible judgment by the man who did select him, Barack Obama.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #2 of 143
I like the way the Republicans are trying to win the election: try to show the other guy is bad. Don't worry about trying to say anything good about our guy, but just paint the other guy as bad.

I'm still waiting for a thread that tries to show me why I should vote for McCain. All of the attempts to paint Obama and all in a bad way only guarantees that I will NOT vote for McCain.

McCain and Company might be rich, but they are certainly low class.

 

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post #3 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

OpenSecrets.org(PDF)

I guess this is one way to counter the "elitism" tag.

I'm not claiming that anyone running for executive office needs to be wealthy but shouldn't they and those who will assist and influence them at least know how to balance their own books before they claim they want to handle those of the country?

It turns out that Joseph Biden is the poorest member of the Senate, is 65 years old and likely has a huge negative net-worth. His net-worth is listed as From $-302,980 to $277,997 by OpenSecrets.org. He keeps dozens of lines of credit, a new one opened every couple of years and together they add up to huge sums for a guy who has had a better paying job than most for basically his entire adult life.

Biden became a senator at age 30 (5th youngest ever) and has never had to suffer a downsizing, lay-off or threat of his job moving overseas yet he can't save a dime. I don't know if I would rent the guy a house, so why would I want him for Vice-President. It also shows terrible judgment by the man who did select him, Barack Obama.

Every 6th year he get's a mandatory performance review. (deleted yet another reference to another poster)

Oh, and when's the last time the federal government actually had a real surplus?

Oh, and just look how accurate they state Biden's net worth!

And what's exceptionally over-the-top hilarious about your "poor man in debt" post is that the common person can actually relate to Biden, because more than likely their in the exact same situation.

Talk about a new thread backfiring at the point of origin.
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post #4 of 143
Wealth, or the Lack Thereof: One More Note About Biden

Quote:
But the fact that Biden has been in the Senate for 35 years and hasn't seen his personal fortune blossom means that he hasn't used his position, and all the connections and insider knowledge that come with it, as a cash register. It's an easy thing to do without ever overstepping legal boundaries.

Biden has chosen not to. I think that speaks to his priorities and why, fundamentally, he is in Washington.

Next? How about this quote:

"I'm a Zionist, you don't have to be a Jew to be a Zionist."

Hmmm, I have some concerns about this, but...there are these, and these and these...

Oh, and if you want to bring up the plagiarism issue there's this...

Quote:
Summary: The Los Angeles Times reported that when Sen. Joe Biden ran for president in 1987, he "was accused of plagiarism when he did not credit Neil Kinnock, then leader of the British Labor Party, for much of his stump speech." The New York Times and the Associated Press made similar reports. But they did not note that Biden reportedly had credited Kinnock, as The Washington Post reported at the time: "John Quinlan, a reporter for the Sioux City Journal, said his notes showed Biden said he was quoting Kinnock when he used the same passage in a speech Aug. 14. Stories in The [New York] Times, The Boston Globe and other newspapers also said Biden had used the rhetoric and credited Kinnock for it."

Hell, I'm not concerned about his lack of wealth he could have garnered as a politician, I am more concerned about his policies. I don't agree with all of them, but I consider him to be a good man. Not perfect by any standards, but a good choice for vice president.

Nobody's perfect trumptman (some may never be up to your standards), at least he's not a complete failure such as McCain or Bush.
post #5 of 143
Shall we initiate a discussion on the successes of Dick Cheney?

 

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Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #6 of 143
Biden's lack of elitism underscores how out of touch and arrogant he is.
post #7 of 143
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post

Wealth, or the Lack Thereof: One More Note About Biden

But the fact that Biden has been in the Senate for 35 years and hasn't seen his personal fortune blossom means that he hasn't used his position, and all the connections and insider knowledge that come with it, as a cash register. It's an easy thing to do without ever overstepping legal boundaries.

Biden has chosen not to. I think that speaks to his priorities and why, fundamentally, he is in Washington.


Hell, I'm not concerned about his lack of wealth he could have garnered as a politician, I am more concerned about his policies. I don't agree with all of them, but I consider him to be a good man. Not perfect by any standards, but a good choice for vice president.

Nobody's perfect trumptman (some may never be up to your standards), at least he's not a complete failure such as McCain or Bush.

You make a relevant point Artman, however let me show you why it falls short. As I noted, no one has to be rich. In fact, I prefer and often practice a simpler approach to life.

There is however a difference between not being rich because you have chosen to live simply and have pursuits other than income and having plenty of income and choosing to live beyond your means. It is clear Biden has chosen the latter and not the former. I could easily respect the former.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #8 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

You make a relevant point Artman, however let me show you why it falls short. As I noted, no one has to be rich. In fact, I prefer and often practice a simpler approach to life.

There is however a difference between not being rich because you have chosen to live simply and have pursuits other than income and having plenty of income and choosing to live beyond your means. It is clear Biden has chosen the latter and not the former. I could easily respect the former.

Maybe this VP spot will be the "pay grade" Biden needs.

This...

Quote:
In 1966, while in law school, Biden married Neilia Hunter. They had three children, Joseph R. "Beau" Biden III, Robert Hunter, and Naomi Christina. His wife and infant daughter died in a car accident shortly after he was first elected to the U.S. Senate in 1972. His two young sons, Beau and Hunter, were seriously injured in the accident, but both eventually made full recoveries. Biden was sworn into office from their bedside. Persuaded not to resign in order to care for them, Biden began the practice of commuting an hour and a half each day on the train from his home in the Wilmington suburbs to Washington, DC, which he continues to do.

Just look at his political positions.

Again, I just think that this has no credence with him being a good politician, much less a person.
post #9 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

Shall we initiate a discussion on the successes of Dick Cheney?

... the worst federal deficits (in constant dollars) since Reagan.

Oh hey, let's also talk about Reagan's and George H. W. Bush's wealth and the worst federal deficits piled up by those two in the whole entirety of the federal government (outside of major global active combat military efforts like WWI and WWII) !

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post #10 of 143
Quote:
He keeps dozens of lines of credit, a new one opened every couple of years and together they add up to huge sums for a guy who has had a better paying job than most for basically his entire adult life.

I have looked through the PDF and I'd love for you to show me the "dozens of lines of credit".

The Liabilities section comprises pages 13 and 14 which lists 5 lines of credit (which is significantly less than "dozens"). It seems as if only 3 of those 5 are even active (1 is his co-signing on his son's student loans).

This is the politics of personal destruction at its most profoundly dishonest and baffling as far as relevance.

As franksargent said (against the rules) (edited)
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post #11 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

You make a relevant point Artman, however let me show you why it falls short. As I noted, no one has to be rich. In fact, I prefer and often practice a simpler approach to life.

There is however a difference between not being rich because you have chosen to live simply and have pursuits other than income and having plenty of income and choosing to live beyond your means. It is clear Biden has chosen the latter and not the former. I could easily respect the former.

This is what is formally known as a conjecture.
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post #12 of 143
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post

Maybe this VP spot will be the "pay grade" Biden needs.

This...



Just look at his political positions.

Again, I just think that this has no credence with him being a good politician, much less a person.

I look at those positions and see a desire to make us all sub-prime.

Quote:
Biden was given an "F" by the National Rifle Association (NRA) showing an anti-gun ownership voting record.

Biden opposes drilling for oil in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and supports governmental funding to find new energy sources.

Biden believes action must be taken on global warming. He supports the creation of a new treaty on climate change that would require emissions reductions from developing countries such as Brazil, India, China, and Mexico. He has also stated his support for investment in technologies to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, as well as the creation of a "cap and trade" system. Biden supports the promotion of renewable energy, including biodiesel fuels but not ethanol.

He voted to provide Social Security to illegal immigrants and supports a path to citizenship.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #13 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

I look at those positions and see a desire to make us all sub-prime.

Ah, so this isn't a thread about Biden's net worth? It's really about all things negative you can dig up on Biden? Hm, I think I'll report this thread and it's disengenuous and erroneous title. Done.

Which is a conjecture on your part;

[CENTER]
Quote:
In mathematics, a conjecture is a mathematical statement which appears likely to be true, but has not been formally proven to be true under the rules of mathematical logic. Once a conjecture is formally proven true it is elevated to the status of theorem and may be used afterwards without risk in the construction of other formal mathematical proofs. Until that time, mathematicians may use the conjecture on a provisional basis, but any resulting work is itself provisional until the underlying conjecture is cleared up.

[/CENTER]

[LEFT]
Quote:
-$302,980 to +$277,997

[/LEFT]

[LEFT]Proof of your own conjecture shown directly above.[/LEFT]
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post #14 of 143
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Every 6th year he get's a mandatory performance review.(redacted ad hom quote)

He uses the advantages of incumbency. Big deal.

Quote:
Oh, and when's the last time the federal government actually had a real surplus?

I'll gladly agree that even conservatives are not conservative enough with our money. That doesn't show how selecting a sub-prime administration will fix this.

Quote:
Oh, and just look how accurate they state Biden's net worth!

Considering the number is based off the quality of Biden's disclosure, you should check who you are laughing at.

Quote:
And what's exceptionally over-the-top hilarious about your "poor man in debt" post is that the common person can actually relate to Biden, because more than likely their in the exact same situation.

I have no doubt that those persons following the philosophy of Biden are exactly in his position and want someone else to pay for and bail them out.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #15 of 143
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Ah, so this isn't a thread about Biden's net worth? It's really about all things negative you can dig up on Biden? Hm, I think I'll report this threas and it's disengenuous and erroneous title. Done.

Which is a conjecture on your part;

[CENTER][/CENTER]

[LEFT][/LEFT]

[LEFT]Proof of your own conjecture shown directly above.[/LEFT]

I did use the word likely as you noted. Biden is welcome to disclose more fully to show that the broad check boxes are more to one side than another. I wouldn't mind knowing the actual interest rates instead of the dismissive "prime." The quality of the disclosure determines the quality of the conclusions drawn from it. If Biden doesn't like my conclusions he can disclose more fully to disprove them. I'd be most interested in his % of credit utilized.

Quote:
Originally Posted by groverat View Post

I have looked through the PDF and I'd love for you to show me the "dozens of lines of credit".

The Liabilities section comprises pages 13 and 14 which lists 5 lines of credit (which is significantly less than "dozens"). It seems as if only 3 of those 5 are even active (1 is his co-signing on his son's student loans).

This is the politics of personal destruction at its most profoundly dishonest and baffling as far as relevance.

As franksargent said

Start reading. The disclosure doesn't include mortgages, loans for cars, any loans under $10,000, credit cards, etc.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #16 of 143
If Nick is concerned about Biden having lines of credit, he must be really concerned about McCain's massive debts.
Quote:
Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) and his wife reported more than $100,000 of credit card liabilities, according to financial disclosure documents released Friday.
The presidential candidate and his wife Cindy reported piling up debt on a charge card between $10,000 and $15,000. His wife’s solo charge card has between $100,000 and $250,000 in debt to American Express.

McCain's wife also has a second American Express charge card listed on the senator's financial disclosure that was carrying $100,000 to $250,000 in debt.
Another charge card with American Express, this one for a “dependent child,” is carrying debt in the range of $15,000 and $50,000.

If McCain thinks tax cuts increase revenues, he probably also thinks credit card debt increases income.
post #17 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post

If Nick is concerned about Biden having lines of credit, he must be really concerned about McCain's massive debts. If McCain thinks tax cuts increase revenues, he probably also thinks credit card debt increases income.

When you're literally swimming in money, who needs a balance sheet. Who cares? We know the McDrain's don't.

But it does make you wonder which of how many untold homes these credit cards were used from versus how much was spent while traipsing around in the McStain's private jet!

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post #18 of 143
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post

If Nick is concerned about Biden having lines of credit, he must be really concerned about McCain's massive debts. If McCain thinks tax cuts increase revenues, he probably also thinks credit card debt increases income.



As you and others would likely note, the McCains have a very high net-worth. OpenSecrets lists his net-worth as $27,817,187 to $45,045,011.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #19 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

His net-worth is listed as From $-302,980 to $277,997 by OpenSecrets.org.

Quite a large range on that.

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post #20 of 143
OK, people are still not getting it.

You know why trumptman's posts aren't getting deleted? Because he isn't calling other posters names. He's not calling anybody ignorant, a liar, or anything else.

Yes, his posts may contain contentious statements. Argue the truth or falsity of the statements, not of him or his knowledge or whether he's a liar or not. You can say something isn't true - you can't say the person who said it is a "liar."

Read trumptman's posts - he makes an assertion and can flame politicians all he wants - but he does not call names of other posters. He is following the rules - you can too.

If you guys spent half as much time refuting the statements as you do calling names, you wouldn't be getting your posts edited and deleted and your accounts banned.

That's it. I can't explain it any better. Bans start now.
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post #21 of 143
So basically trumptman, you're saying Biden is not fit to be vice president because he can identity with a common American's struggle?
post #22 of 143
There's no evidence Biden has even a nickel of debt. It all could be paid off - he only reports the maximum debt that he's had during a given period. Most likely, he's paid off some and has kept some. But until Nick can show any evidence, this idea that Biden was a bad pick because he "can't save a dime" is utterly vacuous. It's also terrible politics - from a guy like Nick whose goal is achieving a "New Red Majority" - given the meme that McCain is an elitist with more houses than he can remember.
post #23 of 143
lundy:

Quote:
you can't say the person who said it is a "liar."

No one called anyone a "liar".
I said he was lying, which is exactly what he was doing if you bother to look at what is being discussed.

He claimed Biden had "dozens of lines of credit" and his own information, which he ostensibly looked at, shows 5, 2 of which look to be expred. When someone knows one thing and then says something else that isn't the truth that is called "lying".

It isn't a personal attack to point out that someone else is lying anymore than it is to point out that they are breathing. If I had called him a "liar" that would be a label on him as a person instead of an attack on his words, which are what I attacked.

If we can't attack lies, what the hell are we even doing here?


pet:

Quote:
Start reading.

Start reading what? I read what you provided and it shows 5 lines of credit (2 of which look to be inactive). Please show me what it is I'm supposed to be reading.

"Stop lying" = horrible personal attack requiring immediate intervention
"Start reading" = perfectly acceptable



Quote:
The disclosure doesn't include mortgages, loans for cars, any loans under $10,000, credit cards, etc.

Do you have any evidence or backing for your claim that he has "dozens of lines of credit"?
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post #24 of 143
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post

There's no evidence Biden has even a nickel of debt. It all could be paid off - he only reports the maximum debt that he's had during a given period. Most likely, he's paid off some and has kept some. But until Nick can show any evidence, this idea that Biden was a bad pick because he "can't save a dime" is utterly vacuous.

Disclosures from the actual person being discussed are hardly vacuous. The best that can be argued is that Biden should disclosure more fully, and more frequently.

The Democratic ticket contains two Senators and no true executive experience. Additionally it has no military experience to speak of as well, the first ticket for which this is true in 68 years.

It is entirely possible that one could have no personal or professional experience in certain areas, fiscal management, military leadership, and still do a good job. We all had times in our lives where it was the first time for us to make a financial choice, or possibly to choose personal diplomacy over a personal show of force. However the stakes here are very high. Neither Obama nor Biden are fresh-faced interns that we are hoping don't screw up when getting us office supplies, doing the filing and typing a memo. They are running for the highest government offices in the land and nothing in their professional or personal backgrounds points to a positive outcome.

So I'll gladly concede that the percentage can never be zero or impossible for a positive outcome. However I'll also gladly note that the odds are decidedly in against them.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #25 of 143
Do you have any evidence or backing for your claim that he has "dozens of lines of credit"?
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post #26 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Disclosures from the actual person being discussed are hardly vacuous. The best that can be argued is that Biden should disclosure more fully, and more frequently.

The Democratic ticket contains two Senators and no true executive experience. Additionally it has no military experience to speak of as well, the first ticket for which this is true in 68 years.

It is entirely possible that one could have no personal or professional experience in certain areas, fiscal management, military leadership, and still do a good job. We all had times in our lives where it was the first time for us to make a financial choice, or possibly to choose personal diplomacy over a personal show of force. However the stakes here are very high. Neither Obama nor Biden are fresh-faced interns that we are hoping don't screw up when getting us office supplies, doing the filing and typing a memo. They are running for the highest government offices in the land and nothing in their professional or personal backgrounds points to a positive outcome.

So I'll gladly concede that the percentage can never be zero or impossible for a positive outcome. However I'll also gladly note that the odds are decidedly in against them.

You're shifting arguments now that you've been proved wrong. You have no evidence that Biden has a nickel of debt. He's supposed to indicate the maximum debt that he had in the period, 2007 in this case, and he did that. It's perfectly sound financially to use credit and then pay it off quickly, especially for something like his son's education.

Either provide some evidence or admit you were wrong first, and then we can go on to your new argument about whether Obama and Biden have any professional experience that would qualify them to be prez/veeps. But I'm not going to flit around haphazardly from one piece of BS to the next, with the rebuttal to each ignored as if the truth of an argument doesn't matter.
post #27 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

So I'll gladly concede that the percentage can never be zero or impossible for a positive outcome. However I'll also gladly note that the odds are decidedly in against them.

How so? What odds? Source? Mathematical probabilistic equation required, please submit said equation for further PO peer review.

TYVM
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post #28 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

The Democratic ticket contains two Senators and no true executive experience.

Does McDrain the McStain have any executive experience?

I've heard tell that McDrain the McStain drove five jets into the ground? I guess that plus being a military desk jockey counts as the sum total of McDrain the McStain military record?

Oh yeah, and he let himself be a POW by letting himself get caught, and he loved the accommodations so much that he volunteered to stay there on vacation.

Oh, and McDrain the McStain start the Forrestal fire.
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post #29 of 143
Yes, he was in a POW camp in Vietnam which is very much like being President of the United States of America.
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post #30 of 143
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by groverat View Post

lundy:

Do you have any evidence or backing for your claim that he has "dozens of lines of credit"?

Biden does have a mortgage. I cannot point to a source that has disclosed those items below $10,000. Part of that claim is the due to certain type of loan he has listed there and another is the nature of how people use credit from my observations dealing with credit reports.

Installment debt is different than revolving debt. The disclosures note that the loans are either restarted again at various time periods, or have been increased and restarted again at various time periods. In terms of installment debt, I consider the Sun National Bank loan to be 10 separate loans with two year terms. The U.S. Employees Federal Credit Union is three separate loans, each one increasing the amount due. Claiming this as one loan is akin to claiming that you only had one car loan when buying several cars from one dealership and tossing the balance of one onto the new loan. You may call it one, but I call that several loans and so do most people.

Finally Biden engages in practices that usually reflect being extremely overextended. Most people don't borrow against life insurance as an example, if they could put that money on a credit card, HELOC or personal loan. Biden already has a mortgage. He has almost $200,000 in personal loans and thus has resorted to borrowing against his life insurance policy which is typically along the lines of a last ditch measure.

Even if we want to give the man the full benefit of the doubt, say with his kids and college, the line was opened in 1989. Clearly junior must have graduated, have a job and his own credit to which that loan could be transferred by now. So even when granting him the benefit of the doubt, it is still very questionable.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #31 of 143
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post

You're shifting arguments now that you've been proved wrong. You have no evidence that Biden has a nickel of debt. He's supposed to indicate the maximum debt that he had in the period, 2007 in this case, and he did that. It's perfectly sound financially to use credit and then pay it off quickly, especially for something like his son's education.

Either provide some evidence or admit you were wrong first, and then we can go on to your new argument about whether Obama and Biden have any professional experience that would qualify them to be prez/veeps. But I'm not going to flit around haphazardly from one piece of BS to the next, with the rebuttal to each ignored as if the truth of an argument doesn't matter.

It isn't proved wrong. The disclosures for 2008 are not out yet nor are they required yet. You are shifting the argument by claiming that I am avoiding that which hasn't been produced yet. There are disclosures on OpenSecrets.org dating back to 1995. Many of these loan and the refinancing of them have been disclosed across those disclosures. If something is disclosed and the status of it has changed, it is up the campaign to provide the updated status. I am using the most recent disclosures and if you believe something has changed or that they are misleading, provide proof or drop the claim.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #32 of 143
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Does McCain have any executive experience?

Yes. He was an officer in the military.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #33 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Biden does have a mortgage. I cannot point to a source that has disclosed those items below $10,000. Part of that claim is the due to certain type of loan he has listed there and another is the nature of how people use credit from my observations dealing with credit reports.

Installment debt is different than revolving debt. The disclosures note that the loans are either restarted again at various time periods, or have been increased and restarted again at various time periods. In terms of installment debt, I consider the Sun National Bank loan to be 10 separate loans with two year terms. The U.S. Employees Federal Credit Union is three separate loans, each one increasing the amount due. Claiming this as one loan is akin to claiming that you only had one car loan when buying several cars from one dealership and tossing the balance of one onto the new loan. You may call it one, but I call that several loans and so do most people.

Finally Biden engages in practices that usually reflect being extremely overextended. Most people don't borrow against life insurance as an example, if they could put that money on a credit card, HELOC or personal loan. Biden already has a mortgage. He has almost $200,000 in personal loans and thus has resorted to borrowing against his life insurance policy which is typically along the lines of a last ditch measure.

Even if we want to give the man the full benefit of the doubt, say with his kids and college, the line was opened in 1989. Clearly junior must have graduated, have a job and his own credit to which that loan could be transferred by now. So even when granting him the benefit of the doubt, it is still very questionable.

A whole lot of iffy words there. Sounds like 100% pure conjectures. Source of Biden's finances to support your conjectures?

Could we just get past all these conjectures? And see some proof, so that this discussion can move forward into the theory stage?

TYVM
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #34 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Yes. He was an officer in the military.

Military experience != Executive (non-military) office experience (local/state/national government)

One word fits McDrain the McStain military record: RECKLESS!

Unfit for command, unfit to lead.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #35 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

It isn't proved wrong. The disclosures for 2008 are not out yet nor are they required yet. You are shifting the argument by claiming that I am avoiding that which hasn't been produced yet. There are disclosures on OpenSecrets.org dating back to 1995. Many of these loan and the refinancing of them have been disclosed across those disclosures. If something is disclosed and the status of it has changed, it is up the campaign to provide the updated status. I am using the most recent disclosures and if you believe something has changed or that they are misleading, provide proof or drop the claim.

You claimed that he "doesn't know how to balance his own books," that he "likely has a huge negative net-worth," etc. There is no evidence of that, there's only evidence that he has a few lines of credit that he has used - the form you linked explicitly says "Check the highest amount owed during the reporting period," so it could be that he was in debt for only a month and paid it off in full immediately. You have to provide evidence that he doesn't pay off his lines of credit when he uses them in order to make the types of claims you've made, and you haven't. Either provide the evidence that he doesn't pay off his debt or admit that you don't have the evidence you claimed you had.
post #36 of 143
Quote:
Biden does have a mortgage.

Which is 1 line of credit.

5+1 = "dozens"?

I'll ask again: Do you have any evidence or backing for your claim that he has "dozens of lines of credit"?

Quote:
Part of that claim is the due to certain type of loan he has listed there and another is the nature of how people use credit from my observations dealing with credit reports.

Is that your way of saying "No, I don't have any evidence for my claim that he has 'dozens of lines of credit'."?

Quote:
You may call it one, but I call that several loans and so do most people.

You're changing the words, you said "lines of credit", not "loans". Those are different things. And even if we accept your shifted goalposts, you still have no evidence.

Quote:
Finally Biden engages in practices that usually reflect being extremely overextended.

According to your interpretation of limited information... not worth much at all as far as "evidence" goes.

Quote:
It isn't proved wrong. The disclosures for 2008 are not out yet nor are they required yet

You said he had "dozens of lines of credit", and the best you've been able to do is establish 6, two of which look to be inactive.

Quote:
Yes. He was an officer in the military.

In what sense is this "executive experience"? I look forward to your explanation.
proud resident of a failed state
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proud resident of a failed state
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post #37 of 143
Ob(s)ama Bin Laden. The Democrats' suicide ticket. (for nearsighted people at least).
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #38 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

It isn't proved wrong. The disclosures for 2008 are not out yet nor are they required yet. You are shifting the argument by claiming that I am avoiding that which hasn't been produced yet. There are disclosures on OpenSecrets.org dating back to 1995. Many of these loan and the refinancing of them have been disclosed across those disclosures. If something is disclosed and the status of it has changed, it is up the campaign to provide the updated status. I am using the most recent disclosures and if you believe something has changed or that they are misleading, provide proof or drop the claim.

You have provided a link without a shread of evidence to support your claims. This is the here and now. Not what future financial disclosures might show.

You need to provide said evidence in the here and now, not in some conjectured future.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #39 of 143
Thread Starter 
I've provided plenty. I'll let my words speak for themselves. The shouts of prove it over and over again are welcome to let their claims stand as well. I have no doubts which will be more persuasive to a reader.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply
post #40 of 143
... I'm still waiting for an answer as to why people like Reagan, Bush (41), Bush (43), and Cheney, who have presumably excellent finances, how does their drunk as a federal spending sailor behaviors jibe with their personal finances?

If anything there is an inverse correlation, such that we would want to have someone in office, who is relatively poor, in comparison to McDrain the McStain.

In other words what does someone's personal finances have to do with them running the federal government.

You see we have a government run by Republicans who are drunk on debt.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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