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...almost exactly 3 years after Katrina... - Page 2

post #41 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by mydo View Post

My point being that when officials talk up a big storm and tell people to run scared only to have the storm loose energy and not be nearly as deadly as cat' 5 would ... it causes people to ignore the next set of warnings that may actually be true.

Things like this are hard to predict and its easy to Monday morning quarterback this thing, but I am glad they did. Better to be safe than sorry.

Will be interesting to see what will happen next time a big storm is headed our way and its "NOT" an election year!

With that said, most power in BR is out. generators are set to run out of fuel on Wednesday for our datacenters....so if we dont' get more fuel soon it could get interesting.

Most my co-workers are unable to make it in. Not CNN worthy but not fun either.
post #42 of 55
Thread Starter 
No sooner than Gustav's done, on the horizon lurks Hanna, forecast to be a minimal hurricane by the time she hits the Carolinas, and behind that is Category 4 hurricane Ike, with 135 mph winds. The path of this one in the 5 day track forecast takes it towards S. Florida.. although its way too early to make any predictions. We have two more possible landfalling storms to deal with in the next week or so. The tropics are poppin'!
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post #43 of 55
Poor Haiti. It seems to be getting every storm this year.
post #44 of 55
Four storms in a month.

Ike's floods kill 58, add insult to Haiti's misery



Incredible misery ...

Quote:
In the Always Funeral Home, 21 mud-crusted bodies were piled in a small room, unclaimed. Two of them were pregnant, one still clutching a small girl to her chest.
post #45 of 55
Haiti has been hit pretty hard.

Next is Cuba.

CNN is now predicting that it is heading towards New Orleans...

I'm sure the Republicans are already planning how to make the most of these storms.

"Republican governors in Republican states..."

 

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post #46 of 55
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

Haiti has been hit pretty hard.

Next is Cuba.

CNN is now predicting that it is heading towards New Orleans...

I'm sure the Republicans are already planning how to make the most of these storms.

"Republican governors in Republican states..."

Cuba has been hit extremely hard, Ike making landfall as a 125mph Category 3 storm, with the center having traveled right across the eastern half of the island. The Cuban government, despite their popular reputation here in the US, are traditionally very efficient at protecting their citizens during natural disasters like Ike, and recently Gustav which hit the western half of the nation as a category 4 storm.

I wonder if we will hear anything in the US weasel media about Ike's effects in Cuba, where there will undoubtedly be lives lost, and a massive amount of property damage by the time the storm has moved into the Gulf of Mexico? I somehow doubt.

I recall the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, where the first nations ot offer help were Cuba and Venezuela. These two "hostile" nations (!!) offered several mobile hospitals, water treatment plants, canned food, bottled water, heating oil, 1,100 doctors and 26.4 metric tons of medicine, though this aid was rejected by the U.S. government. One can only conclude that the Bush Administration was more concerned in scoring cheap political points than helping the plight of some 500,000 people whose lives were trashed by the storm, as well as the families of the 1500+ who drowned in New Orleans. After all, most of those 500,000 were poor, black, working class people who tend to vote democrat (ie part of the enemy).. so they didn't deserve assistance. This was also reflected in the decisions and attitudes of Department of "Homeland Security" prior to the storm. If there was ever a case to fire someone for criminal negligence and dereliction of duty, Chertoff should have been canned. Instead, the hapless "Brownie" fell on his sword. In contrast, the administration was relatively efficient at getting paramilitary thugs from Blackwater, Wackenhut and other corporate terrorist organizations to use the wrecked city as a conveniently prepared training area, courtesy of Nature.

Bush Admin. officials, and the Dumbfuckistan US right wing in general are undoubtedly enjoying some breakfast jokes right now, at the expense of the Cuban people. It is easy to imagine the cackling laughter... It is impossible not to be cynical, since the heavy hitters in this administration are as callous and inhuman to the point of psychopathic, whose motivation is power, their methods are warfare and greed, and who have this broad obsession with ostracizing and belittling those of different ideological, philosophical or religious traditions.
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post #47 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo;1304793
I recall the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, where the first nations ot offer help were [B


Cuba and Venezuela[/B]. These two "hostile" nations (!!) offered several mobile hospitals, water treatment plants, canned food, bottled water, heating oil, 1,100 doctors and 26.4 metric tons of medicine, though this aid was rejected by the U.S. government. One can only conclude that the Bush Administration was more concerned in scoring cheap political points...

Is it at all possible that Cuba and Venezuela were trying to score cheap political points?
post #48 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by mydo View Post

Is it at all possible that Cuba and Venezuela were trying to score cheap political points?

Or trying to be kind?

They at least offered; the US sat on its butt.

This year they were all over it. I wonder what the reaction would have been in a non-election year.

 

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post #49 of 55
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mydo View Post

Is it at all possible that Cuba and Venezuela were trying to score cheap political points?

I doubt. And with whom would be points be scored, if the aid was accepted? The "cheap political brownie points" wouldn't have been covered in the US media any more than the initial rejected offer, which got zero coverage in our media. And the aid offered was hardly cheap, as you suggest, especially considering that Cuba is one of the world's most impoverished nations, courtesy of the decades-long US imposed sanctions. Venezuela is currently awash in oil revenue, but they did offer 1 million barrels of oil.. which at today's prices, some $100 million worth... thats not exactly a "cheap" political point either.

Then consider that almost 100 nations offered aid to the US in the aftermath of Katrina? Were they after cheap political points as well? How about fully-fledged member of the Axis Of Evil®, Iran, set up by this Islamophobic admin. as the new bogeyman to hate? They offered 20 million barrels of oil, worth (at today's prices) some $2BILLION, as well as humanitarian aid. Was that a "cheap political gesture"? Hardly. Then consider that out of the approximately $850 million received in disaster aid from "allied" nations, only 5% has been used for Katrina relief efforts. Where is the rest of that money? In whose bank accounts is it sat, and who is collecting the interest? Why were the hurricane victims systematically shafted by this admin? Much of the area east of New Orleans wrecked in the storm remains a shambles.

Its much about institutionalized racism by good ol' boys... or opportunism and theft... or both... and more.
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post #50 of 55
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

Or trying to be kind?

They at least offered; the US sat on its butt.

This year they were all over it. I wonder what the reaction would have been in a non-election year.

2005 was a non election year. The 2004 hurricane season (an election year) was a doozy, with Florida getting hit repeatedly by storms (karma?)... but it was not on a catastrophic scale like Katrina. The previous time this happened was in 1992, when Hurricane Andrew (a small and compact category 5 storm) did $40billion in damage south of Miami. The response, or lack thereof by FEMA, was similar to Katrina. When Andrew hit, Bush Sr. was president. 'nuff said.
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post #51 of 55
Thread Starter 
Hurricane Ike is huge, with hurricane force winds over a 275 mile diameter range and tropical storm force winds 550 miles spread, and its only moving at 10mph ... Houston, not that far inland, is in the direct line of fire and will be experiencing not only a 20' surge, but also sustained winds of hurricane force >75mph for hours on end. The city center's got dozens of very tall buildings, and the wind speed several hundred feet above the surface is perhaps 20% higher... the rule for high buildings in a hurricane is "add a category".... and Galveston is already half-inundated, 10'+ tides already, large areas of low lying coastal land is under water, and the storm center is still 200+ miles away from shore, with by far the worst yet to come

No matter what happens, there's going to be a major disaster to deal with, with loss of life and enormous property damage. And gas prices are going to soar, as the speculators use this potential catastrophe to rake America over the coals, yet again.

We all need a break, dammit
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post #52 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

Hurricane Ike is huge, with hurricane force winds over a 275 mile diameter range and tropical storm force winds 550 miles spread, and its only moving at 10mph ... Houston, not that far inland, is in the direct line of fire and will be experiencing not only a 20' surge, but also sustained winds of hurricane force >75mph for hours on end. The city center's got dozens of very tall buildings, and the wind speed several hundred feet above the surface is perhaps 20% higher... the rule for high buildings in a hurricane is "add a category".... and Galveston is already half-inundated, 10'+ tides already, large areas of low lying coastal land is under water, and the storm center is still 200+ miles away from shore, with by far the worst yet to come

No matter what happens, there's going to be a major disaster to deal with, with loss of life and enormous property damage.

Seems like your dire predictions of Ike didn't come true. Thank God (or FSM).

Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

And gas prices are going to soar, as the speculators use this potential catastrophe to rake America over the coals, yet again.

We all need a break, dammit

Yea those evil speculators. I bought gas today and it was up 20-30 cents. I'm not really sure how a station owner can speculate with the price of retail gas. What's to speculate about? Plus a price increase has a way to get people that don't really need the gas to not buy it. Leaving more for the people that do. I was down to 1/8 a tank and though about filling it half way to save money. But the price was less than what I was paying back in June so I figured why not.

Funny how economics creates incentives and changes behavior.
post #53 of 55
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Seems like your dire predictions of Ike didn't come true. Thank God (or FSM).

The predictions were from NOAA/NHS/NWS; they got it pretty much right apart from the height of the storm surge. Had the surge been the expected max of 22 feet, we would be looking at a huge death toll. Imagine another 10 feet of water on top of what they got. Look at the pictures and reports however there is a lot of property damage in Houston, and towns all along a 100 mile+ stretch of coastline are flooded. The destruction in Crystal Beach for example is almost total, every property is damaged or destroyed. And no flying spaghetti was sighted.

Quote:
Yea those evil speculators.

"Speculators" is a far too generous term. "Opportunistic Parasites" is more accurate.

Quote:
I bought gas today and it was up 20-30 cents.

Lucky you. Some folks in the South are being gouged to the tune of $6 a gallon, almost double the national average. Simultaneously, the price of crude was falling on the markets as Ike was moving though the Gulf of Mexico.

Quote:
I'm not really sure how a station owner can speculate with the price of retail gas.

As a rule they don't. The lowly retail outlets are regulated and can face heavy fines for such, for example in Florida, $10,000 per violation, or $25,000 per day. Its a fairly easy bet as to who is scamming and gouging, and who isn't, and who gets away with it, and who doesn't.

Quote:
What's to speculate about?

Where have you been living in the last 7 years? Mars?

Quote:
Plus a price increase has a way to get people that don't really need the gas to not buy it. Leaving more for the people that do. I was down to 1/8 a tank and though about filling it half way to save money. But the price was less than what I was paying back in June so I figured why not.

If you don't need gas, then you don't buy it just for the sake of it. If gas suddenly became really cheap, would you expect people buy it in bulk and store it on their property in tanks? If you do rely on having to use gas, such as to commute, then you buy it, regardless.

Quote:
Funny how economics creates incentives and changes behavior.

Al Capone used to say things like that as well.
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post #54 of 55
Al Capone was simply responding to the law of supply and demand. When the supply goes low and the price goes high it incentives people to take risk (financial or legal or physical) to earn money. A big risk should pay off big on success but most often will end in ruin.

I remember a poor guy that took it upon himself to rent a U-Haul and buy, on his own visa card, a bunch of generators and truck them down to the post Katrina south. He was selling them for 2 times (4 or 8 or 10?) the price. He was jailed as a profiteer. Without him there would be no generators at all for anyone. Now other like minded people would sit it out because certain jail time would happen.

Which result is worse?
post #55 of 55
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Al Capone was simply responding to the law of supply and demand. When the supply goes low and the price goes high it incentives people to take risk (financial or legal or physical) to earn money. A big risk should pay off big on success but most often will end in ruin.

I remember a poor guy that took it upon himself to rent a U-Haul and buy, on his own visa card, a bunch of generators and truck them down to the post Katrina south. He was selling them for 2 times (4 or 8 or 10?) the price. He was jailed as a profiteer. Without him there would be no generators at all for anyone. Now other like minded people would sit it out because certain jail time would happen.

Which result is worse?

I found just one reference to this story, and it wasn't linked to any news source. If this really did happen, (imho) it's a totally wrongheaded reaction. The story I read was that the man had marked up the generators only 100%, (ie 2x, not 10x), which would have probably just about covered his travel etc. etc. expenses and if he was lucky, left a small profit margin afterwards, provided he had managed to sell them all. I don't think his actions constitute gouging, in the slightest.. if anything, his scheme sounded fair and kudos to him for taking the time out to help. As long as the goods are genuine and in working order, the seller can charge whatever he wants; its up to the buyer to haggle if the price is overboard... ands since when has it been illegal to make a profit in this country? Under what law was he charged? This case sounds more like some overzealous (read bloodyminded) cop prosecuting someone for infringing some local byelaw, or not having a license to sell generators in that locality. I am guessing here because the entire affair sounds absurd; it's unbelievable that the already frazzled local cops would take the time out to prosecute someone trying to help out in this fashion after a disaster like Katrina.

There's a big difference between entrepreneurialism, like the generator salesman, and Enron style predatory speculators who have the power to be able to make the price of essential commodities skyrocket or plummet on a whim... and make out like bandits in the process.... and usually fall foul of numerous laws and regulations in the process. As I mentioned in my last post, "Its a fairly easy bet as to who is scamming and gouging, and who isn't, and who gets away with it, and who doesn't"... the ones who are well connected enough will always get off, or get a wrist slapping at the most, while the ordinary guy gets hammered into the ground.

What's new?
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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