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Repeat tests show iPhone 3G doesn't suffer from faulty hardware

post #1 of 147
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After lab results demonstrated that the iPhone 3G's antenna actually functions normally, critics complained that the tests didn't represent their own experiences. So the tests were performed again on two phones that had been experiencing severe problems for some users; the verdict was the same: no hardware problems found.

Eva Wieselgren, a journalist in Sweden, originally presented the findings of a study by Bluetest earlier this week which confirmed that the iPhone 3G's antenna and its 3G reception were functioning normally. When readers complained that the tests didn't properly single out a problematic phone, Wieselgren asked for volunteers who owned a bad iPhone 3G to offer their unit for additional testing.

Despite the wide visibility of the report, Wieselgren wrote that there were "unexpectedly few" who responded to claim ownership of a bad iPhone, but two users were identified who had experienced few or no bars of 3G service in areas where other mobile phones reported lots of bars of signal strength.

"To look at the bars [of signal on a phone] is a very unreliable measurement method," Bluetest chief executive Mats Andersson explained. "There can be differences of 10 - 20 dB by moving the phone half a meter, or if a car drives by. There is no standard on how the bars should be displayed." Andersson's company had previously pitted an iPhone 3G running iPhone 2.0.2 software against a Sony Ericsson P1 and Nokia N73. In the retest, two additional iPhone 3Gs, one running iPhone 2.0 and the other running iPhone 2.0.2, were also tested, both of which came from owners who reported having trouble finding a 3G signal and frequent fallbacks to EDGE service.

Wieselgren reported that the lab found that all these iPhones to "have no problems with the 3G communication in the test chamber. They send and receive signals in a fully normal manner. They do not disconnect earlier than the others we have tested when the signal becomes weaker." The iPhone using updated 2.0.2 software reported slightly better numbers, but Bluetest indicated there was no statistical significance, as a difference of up to 1dB in the results "can occur due to measurement uncertainty and random fluctuations."

Outside of the Bluetest lab, Wieselgren reported that at one location where a Sony Ericsson phone displayed full bars, one iPhone 3G showed low 3G reception while the other indicated it was on EDGE. When attempting to download a web page however, Wieselgren wrote that "the Sony Ericsson with all the 3G bars makes it in 46 seconds. For my iPhone with Edge it takes 32."

"I do not draw any conclusion from this, there is so many factors influencing the outcome," Wieselgren reported. "We can at least be certain of one thing. The three iphones we tested had nothing wrong with their antennas."



3G bands

The radio frequencies Bluetest examined fall in the 1900MHz band used for mobile transmit (above in blue) and the 2100MHz band used for base station transmit (above in yellow), the two primary 3G UMTS bands used in Europe. The testing did not also include the 850MHz band used by AT&T in the US and Telstra in Australia.

The longer wavelength, lower frequency 850MHz band is growing in popularity among mobile providers because it provides greater coverage area using fewer towers and better penetration through walls. AT&T uses both 850MHz and 1900MHz bands for 3G UMTS in the US.

In June, Kris Rinne, AT&T's Senior Vice President of Architecture and Planning, was cited in an industry press release as saying, "AT&T has delivered HSPA service at 850MHz wherever possible, with more on the way this year as we redeploy additional 850 spectrum previously used for our TDMA network," indicating a continuation of the company's often repeated strategy of deploying additional 850MHz coverage to strengthen its 3G service in the US.

Can you hear me now?

The lab findings refute the speculation of financial analyst Richard Windsor of Nomura Securities, who issued a report two weeks ago that accused the iPhone 3G's Infineon chipset of being faulty and possibly requiring a massive recall to resolve. Infineon said it was not aware of any problems with its chips, which are also used by Samsung. Other groups, including iSuppli, offered their own guesswork about the possible hardware problems the iPhone might have, albeit without offering any test results to substantiate what the problems actually were.

BusinessWeek cited two "well-placed" but unnamed sources, who both blamed unspecified chips in the device as the source of its reported problems. Swedish publication NyTeknik reported on a study that indicated substandard test results "well below the value specified in the 3G standard" for an iPhone 3G, but did not actually publish the numbers, describe how the tests were carried out, or compare the iPhone 3G's findings against other models.

A broader, informal study conducted by Wired that involved 2,600 users in different countries suggested that the iPhone 3G's problems were more likely due to limitations of carriers' networks, particularly AT&T in the US, where users reported 75 percent of the zero data results from dropped calls and less than half of the average data throughput compared to users on European carriers.

A Citigroup analyst recently reported similar 3G problems with dropping to the slower EDGE network or even cutting out entirely when using RIM's new BlackBerry Bold on AT&T's 3G network. The Bold uses an entirely different cellular chipset than the iPhone 3G.
post #2 of 147
Damn you AT&T?

One thought he was invincible... the other thought he could fly.

They were both wrong.

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One thought he was invincible... the other thought he could fly.

They were both wrong.

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post #3 of 147
"But whhaaaa your results don't match my anecdotal evidence and I really want to blame Apple for this one! Do it again!! Wait, same results? Whatever, you're obviously being paid off by Apple"

The scary thing is situations like this happen every single day and the discounting of results seems to be the standard.

At least those willing to accept scientific evidence know the truth right???
post #4 of 147
AT&T = Dropped calls and now dropped 3G.
AT&T's cellular connection has always been inconsistent at least here in NYC. SO why am I not surprised that their 3G has faulty connectivity as well?
Sorry you all bought into AT&T. At least the iPhone looks cool.
post #5 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmc6000 View Post

"But whhaaaa your results don't match my anecdotal evidence and I really want to blame Apple for this one! Do it again!! Wait, same results? Whatever, you're obviously being paid off by Apple"

The scary thing is situations like this happen every single day and the discounting of results seems to be the standard.

At least those willing to accept scientific evidence know the truth right???

Interesting. They got two so called "bad phones" and the worked better than results than the 'better' competitors.

Perhaps it is not the iPhone that is the problem. Its the void between the users' ears.

Just ran another test. Now up to 1743kbs on 3G. Love my iPhone and my carrier.
post #6 of 147
Make sure y'all update to 2.0.2
post #7 of 147
Yup, it's looking like Apple has been getting crap for 3G when all signs point to the network. AT&T was and still is ill prepared to provide a viable 3G service. The same thing happened when they introduced DSL, the service and support was shoddy. They eventually got it right but it took a few years.

My 3G is never over 2 bars and I live in Fort Lauderdale Florida. It's off 90% of the time.
post #8 of 147
You also forgot situations when the phone is working, the network is working, the coverage is ok ... but the carrier is capping the network to 384kbps.
Thank you, Orange France.
post #9 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

AT&T = Dropped calls and now dropped 3G.
AT&T's cellular connection has always been inconsistent at least here in NYC. SO why am I not surprised that their 3G has faulty connectivity as well?
Sorry you all bought into AT&T. At least the iPhone looks cool.

Along with ATT immature 3G system another thing to keep in mind. Verizon nor Sprint have an equivalent phone that is a popular as the iPhone or uses as much data. So their is no phone that demands their 3G network in the same way. So we cannot make an equal comparison of how well their networks could handle the same situation
post #10 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Along with ATT immature 3G system another thing to keep in mind. Verizon nor Sprint have an equivalent phone that is a popular as the iPhone or uses as much data. So their is no phone that demands their 3G network in the same way. So we cannot make an equal comparison of how well their networks could handle the same situation

Even without 3G the quality of the calls sound crappy and drop- at least on the receiving end. An this is not only iPhone but all AT&T phones.
post #11 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmc6000 View Post

"But whhaaaa your results don't match my anecdotal evidence and I really want to blame Apple for this one! Do it again!! Wait, same results? Whatever, you're obviously being paid off by Apple"

The scary thing is situations like this happen every single day and the discounting of results seems to be the standard.

At least those willing to accept scientific evidence know the truth right???

And the truth shall set you free... provided you pay your AT&T bill on time every month.
Pity the agnostic dyslectic. They spend all their time contemplating the existence of dog.
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post #12 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Even without 3G the quality of the calls sound crappy and drop- at least on the receiving end. An this is not only iPhone but all AT&T phones.

Very true ATT is ranked at the bottom of call quality.
post #13 of 147
Seems to me that this helps to validate Apple's decision to not make the original iphone 3G. If it's this bad now, can you imagine what it was like a couple (or three) years ago when they were having to make the call on whether to ship with EDGE or 3G. Rewind back a year ago and imagine Apple introducing a 3G iphone that had even shorter life than the EDGE version and even worse 3G coverage/issues.

Good points about the fact that it's been measured that iphone users are far heavier users of IP traffic and therefore much likely to A) notice network issues and B) cause network issues.
post #14 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Interesting. They got two so called "bad phones" and the worked better than results than the 'better' competitors.

Perhaps it is not the iPhone that is the problem. Its the void between the users' ears.

Just ran another test. Now up to 1743kbs on 3G. Love my iPhone and my carrier.

Yeah, I can hear you now! I live in an area that is supposedly "horrid" for 3G coverage. Yet that has not been my experience at all! Most of us should have known about AT&T's rather checkered history in the cellular game but, my oh my, have people been quick to jump on Apple instead.

It's going to be very interesting once the 2.1 firmware update is out. Who are the naysayers going to blame then? Perhaps they should start by finding a good mirror.
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post #15 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by msb0014 View Post

Yup, it's looking like Apple has been getting crap for 3G when all signs point to the network. AT&T was and still is ill prepared to provide a viable 3G service. The same thing happened when they introduced DSL, the service and support was shoddy. They eventually got it right but it took a few years.

My 3G is never over 2 bars and I live in Fort Lauderdale Florida. It's off 90% of the time.

AT&T is in the build stage. Actually one of the reasons why Apple didn't jump into 3G in the first place. (Interesting, but as of Dec 27, there were only 45 million 3G subscribers in Europe.)

As this map shows, (http://www.zeemaps.com/pub?group=990...y=37.7186&z=15) speeds reported vary across the country. Notice that many places are getting excellent speeds.

Certainly nobody can argue that it is not 'tower' related, as it now has been evidenced that it is not 'iPhone' and only somewhat a 'software" issue. Just remember, towers are expensive. Obviously once you put up the first one, one is reluctant to replace it when necessary vs installing a new one in new locations.

Sorry to hear you are having problems, but unfortunately you don't have another choice. Best suggestion is to keep hounding your local provider, knowing that the squeaky wheel gets the most grease.

But on a happier note, I got up to 1743 Kbps on 3G this morning. Up nearly 300 from a week and a half ago. Love my iPhone and my carrier.
post #16 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by justflybob View Post

And the truth shall set you free... provided you pay your AT&T bill on time every month.

Or pony up the the termination fee
post #17 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by justflybob View Post

Yeah, I can hear you now! I live in an area that is supposedly "horrid" for 3G coverage. Yet that has not been my experience at all! Most of us should have known about AT&T's rather checkered history in the cellular game but, my oh my, have people been quick to jump on Apple instead.

It's going to be very interesting once the 2.1 firmware update is out. Who are the naysayers going to blame then? Perhaps they should start by finding a good mirror.

Well if this is correct and the problem falls on the backs of the carrier. Would this explain why the signal on the phone keeps jumping around from no service to full bars and anywhere in between when in 3G any staying in the same place? Did this test take into account the quality of the signal when holding the phone? I'm now on my third phone with all of the latest updates and the signal meter jumps all over the place depending on how I'm holding it. The only way I can achieve full strength is to be in the line of sight to the tower.
This is so frustrating!!!!!
post #18 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Even without 3G the quality of the calls sound crappy and drop- at least on the receiving end. An this is not only iPhone but all AT&T phones.

Our business has several iPhone 3G users. Our experience is that call quality is universally excellent, whether between iPhones or between a landline phone and an iPhone. And we're not even in an area with any AT&T 3G service, although it's supposedly coming in September.
post #19 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

(Interesting, but as of Dec 27, there were only 45 million 3G subscribers in Europe.)

What? Dec 27 2006? http://www.3g.co.uk/PR/April2007/4516.htm

It is over 100 million now.
post #20 of 147
Apple is just as much at fault of course, because they made the decision to give AT&T an exclusive deal.
post #21 of 147
This report makes sense. Most of the big problems seem to be in NYC, SF bay area or other locations where ATT has poor coverage or at least not enough for the big increase in 3G users.

My 3G in Birmingham, AL has had good data speeds and although I make only occasional calls, it's never dropped one. It's everything I'd hoped for. I find 3G surfing acceptable and it's doesn't drop back to edge. My iPhone experience is much improved from my original iPhone, well worth the upgrade.

I guess that's because my area has good 3G coverage and probably not the iPhone saturation in SF or Manhattan.

The iPhone probably has produced a huge increase in 3G demand and with some luck carriers will beef up the areas that are hurting now.
post #22 of 147
I carry an iPhone and a Verizon 8130 Blackberry. There isn't any comparison on the coverage between the iPhone and the Blackberry, especially when EV-DO is compared to AT&T's 3G. Verizon has the best coverage, at least in South Florida, where I live. I also travel extensively in my job, and while this statement is anecdotal, Verizon consistently has better voice coverage, and Verizon and Sprint have better EV-DO coverage than AT&T with their 3G service. It's a shame that there isn't a CDMA version of the iPhone.

RIM is poised to release the 9500, their "iPhone killer" phone, as a Verizon device. If they execute well, which remains to be seen, they would have the advantage of superior coverage with Verizon and top-rate WiMax with EV-DO.

Just my thoughts.
post #23 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianmac47 View Post

Apple is just as much at fault of course, because they made the decision to give AT&T an exclusive deal.

Well doesn't it make sense to partner with at&t as they are supporting the same 3g standard as the rest of the world? Seems to make it easier to make one iphone 3g for the world instead of one for the world and one for the US
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post #24 of 147
I am on Rogers and my 3G has been working 100% when I have it turned on. *in the evenings I turn to wifi, thats when I get home*
post #25 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by msb0014 View Post

Yup, it's looking like Apple has been getting crap for 3G when all signs point to the network. AT&T was and still is ill prepared to provide a viable 3G service. The same thing happened when they introduced DSL, the service and support was shoddy. They eventually got it right but it took a few years.

Wait... they actually got it right at some point? When did that happen?
I've guided numerous clients away from SBC Yahoo! DSL. What a mess it is!

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilM View Post

Our business has several iPhone 3G users. Our experience is that call quality is universally excellent, whether between iPhones or between a landline phone and an iPhone. And we're not even in an area with any AT&T 3G service, although it's supposedly coming in September.

I'll echo that. Since I got my first iPhone when it came out, people have commented on how remarkably clear conversations have been. I've had no trouble either. When I've got a bad signal I have the usual issues, but call quality has never been a problem outside that. East Bay Area.
The true measure of a man is how he treats someone that can do him absolutely no good.
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The true measure of a man is how he treats someone that can do him absolutely no good.
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post #26 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Very true ATT is ranked at the bottom of call quality.

I find those "rankings" to be about as accurate as political polls amongst "likely voters." They aren't amongst likely voters - they are amongst 1) people who voted last time 2) have the same phone number 3) are dumb enough to pick up the phone from an 800 caller and 4) don't hang up when they find out it's a survey. After you get through all 4 of those conditions you're sample is completely laughable. The world, and the US, would be much better if stopped wasting our time with idiotic polls that mean nothing but are presented as if they are actually "news". Anyway - back on topic.
I'd give those "rankings", at the very least, a +/- of 8% and that's not really all that accurate, at least IMO.
post #27 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Zhu Xuande View Post

Wait... they actually got it right at some point? When did that happen?
I've guided numerous clients away from SBC Yahoo! DSL. What a mess it is!

Idk - I've had SBC/Yahoo DSL (read: AT&T) for a while and I've, honestly, never had a single problem...
post #28 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by woody970 View Post

Well if this is correct and the problem falls on the backs of the carrier. Would this explain why the signal on the phone keeps jumping around from no service to full bars and anywhere in between when in 3G any staying in the same place? Did this test take into account the quality of the signal when holding the phone? I'm now on my third phone with all of the latest updates and the signal meter jumps all over the place depending on how I'm holding it. The only way I can achieve full strength is to be in the line of sight to the tower.
This is so frustrating!!!!!

Yeah, I know. I can still remember how people told me I was crazy when I had an amazingly screwed up upgrade experience to Leopard. Turned out to be a bad batch of upgrade discs.

But let me ask you this: I get that the signal jumps all over the place. What about your actual experience on a call or surfing the web? Are you dropping calls and having slow downloads, or are you just focusing on the signal strength as the phone meters it?
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post #29 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Sorry you all bought into AT&T. At least the iPhone looks cool.

We didn't buy into AT&T, we got stuck with it. It was AT&T's way or the highway. It appears as though you're blaming the victims here, a tendency that has for some reason been growing in American culture in recent years.
post #30 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Outside of the Bluetest lab, Wieselgren reported that at one location where a Sony Ericsson phone displayed full bars, one iPhone 3G showed low 3G reception while the other indicated it was on EDGE. When attempting to download a web page however, Wieselgren wrote that "the Sony Ericsson with all the 3G bars makes it in 46 seconds. For my iPhone with Edge it takes 32."

"I do not draw any conclusion from this, there is so many factors influencing the outcome," Wieselgren reported. "We can at least be certain of one thing. The three iphones we tested had nothing wrong with their antennas."

I surprised nobody has asked this: Sony Ericsson, are you fudging your bar readouts to look better than you really are???

Much of the original hulabaloo was because 3G bars reported on different phones were higher with other brands. Could it be the lack of a standard for bar displays allows some manufacturers/cariers to play fast and loose with the readouts? Meaning they are even more meaningless than they were before?
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post #31 of 147
Yet again the Apple hating portion of the media put the blame on Apple for the faults of the network provider.

I bet they'll be extremely quiet about the fact that the hardware is perfectly adequate in terms of 3G support.

Anyone written an iPhone app that measures your phone signal and type (3.5G, 3G, EDGE, GPRS, 2G), gets your GPS location, does a speed test, and then sends it to a website to view AT&T signal quality on a far more granular basis?
post #32 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by woody970 View Post

I'm now on my third phone with all of the latest updates and the signal meter jumps all over the place depending on how I'm holding it.

If merely moving your hand changes the reception, it could indicate a very weak signal to begin with, which would be the carriers fault.
post #33 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by justflybob View Post

Yeah, I know. I can still remember how people told me I was crazy when I had an amazingly screwed up upgrade experience to Leopard. Turned out to be a bad batch of upgrade discs.

But let me ask you this: I get that the signal jumps all over the place. What about your actual experience on a call or surfing the web? Are you dropping calls and having slow downloads, or are you just focusing on the signal strength as the phone meters it?

When surfing the speeds change a bit here and there but I consider that to be network traffic. However on a cell call using 3G it tends to fade in and out at some point during the call and about 3 out of 10 calls drop. Also I must admit I do find myself focusing to much on the signal meter.
post #34 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Interesting. They got two so called "bad phones" and the worked better than results than the 'better' competitors.

Perhaps it is not the iPhone that is the problem. Its the void between the users' ears.

Just ran another test. Now up to 1743kbs on 3G. Love my iPhone and my carrier.

And the NEW Backberry 3G phones are having the same issues Bad ATT!

Skip
post #35 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by justflybob View Post

I get that the signal jumps all over the place. What about your actual experience on a call or surfing the web? Are you dropping calls and having slow downloads, or are you just focusing on the signal strength as the phone meters it?

I'm really experiencing dropped calls and sporadic internet connectivity. The dropped calls are frequent and happen both with 5 bars of signal (which, as the article and several of you point out, may not mean much) or 2 bars. On the data side, yesterday, here at my desk at work, I had no 3G signal for an hour--and it wasn't just the indicator; I could not get on the internet at all. Then suddenly, in the very same spot, I had 5 bars and could access the web at high speed (testmyiphone.com showed it at 897 kbps).

My point is that AT&T 3G availability really is jumping around like a flea on a hot brick, regardless of what the iPhone's signal indicator is showing.
post #36 of 147
Vindication!
post #37 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by woody970 View Post

Well if this is correct and the problem falls on the backs of the carrier. Would this explain why the signal on the phone keeps jumping around from no service to full bars and anywhere in between when in 3G any staying in the same place? Did this test take into account the quality of the signal when holding the phone? I'm now on my third phone with all of the latest updates and the signal meter jumps all over the place depending on how I'm holding it. The only way I can achieve full strength is to be in the line of sight to the tower.
This is so frustrating!!!!!

All kinds of things can dynamically change signal strength if you are near the limits of a particular tower/set of towers. Reflections off vehicles, opening and closing doors with metallicised sunscreen coatings. Cyclic harmonic constructive and destructive interference between towers which are just a bit too far part, and all those effects can change completely by moving the phone just a few feet. If the towers are deployed to ensure complete strong coverage the "noise" from the weaker towers isn't enough to cause significant problems.
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post #38 of 147
The tests tell us that under laboratory conditions, the Phone works to spec. It does not tell us whether the iPhone works out in the real world.

The iPhone may very well be working perfectly in the real world. It may very well be a lemon. This test doesn't address the real world situations people are complaining about.


A phone's physical design encourages people to hold it in their hands a certain way, and hold it a certain distance from their head. With a badly designed phone, these simple actions might block the signal. That would be a major problem that would NOT show up under the type of standard testing conditions described.


I'm not saying their is a problem with the iPhone 3G. I'm just saying laboratory tests don't always tell us about real world performance.
post #39 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktappe View Post

We didn't buy into AT&T, we got stuck with it. It was AT&T's way or the highway. It appears as though you're blaming the victims here, a tendency that has for some reason been growing in American culture in recent years.

I actually switched over to AT&T after I moved to Fort Worth because I was getting so annoyed with how crippled my Verizon phone was. It was great when I got my Sony Ericcson Z525a and I could sync it via bluetooth - that alone was worth it.

Of course I've never (knock on wood) had any of the dropped call or poor reception issues that seem to plague others. Even when I was in NYC, DC, Ohio, Florida and New Mexico I didn't have any problems.

Maybe I'm just one of the lucky ones! (that would be a first for me!)

Edit: Please don't start up that syncing via BT crap again - I actually find it EASIER to just plug in my phone than open iSync and go through the few step process it took to sync it.
post #40 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hattig View Post

Yet again the Apple hating portion of the media put the blame on Apple for the faults of the network provider.

I bet they'll be extremely quiet about the fact that the hardware is perfectly adequate in terms of 3G support.

Anyone written an iPhone app that measures your phone signal and type (3.5G, 3G, EDGE, GPRS, 2G), gets your GPS location, does a speed test, and then sends it to a website to view AT&T signal quality on a far more granular basis?

I'm working on a speed test website which should launch later today which allows the user to select their state / city. So hopefully people use it and I can put together some interesting data. I think it would be cool to have it in an app to automatically get your location, but not sure you can measure signal strength with an app. If I ever get accepted into the app store program I will probably create it in app form if possible.
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