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iPods, MacBooks, iMacs up next on Apple's 2008 roadmap - Page 4

post #121 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

I don't understand the resistance to adding Blue-Ray optical drives in the next round of Mac updates.

It may be a bit 'high end' for entry level consumer focused machines like the mini and MB, but as others have stated, Blue Ray movie playback on a 24" iMac would probably be stunning. The lack of BR drives in the MBP and Mac Pro machines is starting to get embarrassing.

I know Apple would rather have me download my HD content, but I would like the availability of BR on my next machine. I think Apple would be wise to listen to its users in this regard as I suspect most would like that option as well.

I could be wrong, but I think with the Montevina chipset, this is the first time that Apple can really offer BRD as an option that will actually play and output BR Media in all their glory, not just a super-high density optical backup option.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggot777 View Post

Remember those? Are we ever going to see refreshes to that red headed step child of Apple's?

I need a new machine but at this point feel like I should wait for the next version.

Don't buy yet. The next update should be anytime now according to previously reelases and average days between releases.
http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#Mac_Pro Has much changed with the Xeons that would require to showcase the upgraded chips? Will Apple also update the look of the Mac Pro along with the Mac notebooks?
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #122 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I use the F19 key, for example, to switch to the full Spaces layout.


Looking on my keyboard for the F19 key.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

Reply
post #123 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by success View Post

You stick to your 64GB $350.00 USB thumb drives and I'll continue with my 50GB for $20.00 Blu-Ray purchases thank you.

They sell thumb drives in the shape of sushi, lego, real thumbs, cars and other toys you know. Maybe you'll find those features worth the $350.00 price tag.

Have fun.

p.s. You also won't be able to create Blu-Ray HD media or "back up" Blu-Ray movies with your Lego or sushi shaped thumb drive. You will however be able to join and stack many Lego shaped thumb drives together as high as you like.

how much was your burner? you don't need to buy a burner for a thumb drive.

how many friends and family have blueray drives that can use this media once you burn, every computer I know of has a usb port for a thumb drive.

there is a lot more associated with the storage outside of the cost of 1 disc vs a thumbdrive. I can also get an external harddrive with TB's of data, why not add that into your argument?
post #124 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I could be wrong, but I think with the Montevina chipset, this is the first time that Apple can really offer BRD as an option that will actually play and output BR Media in all their glory, not just a super-high density optical backup option.

Apple have had some reasons for not doing it up until now that are somewhat reasonable. But now they need to start offering it on some of their machines. It should be at least a BTO option on the iMac, MBP and Mac Pro IMO. Again the fact that it isn't even an option on the Mac Pro and MBP is becoming an embarrassment (there I backed off my previous hyperbole a little).
post #125 of 204
And thats the other thing, the MP's have to be in for a case change... it's been a long time. The current case is great, don't get me wrong, but I think its time for an update.

But I guess they are at the mercy of Intel chip revisions, if there's nothing new to warrant a whole new computer then I guess the wait continues.





Don't buy yet. The next update should be anytime now according to previously reelases and average days between releases.
http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#Mac_Pro Has much changed with the Xeons that would require to showcase the upgraded chips? Will Apple also update the look of the Mac Pro along with the Mac notebooks?[/QUOTE]
post #126 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggot777 View Post

And thats the other thing, the MP's have to be in for a case change... it's been a long time. The current case is great, don't get me wrong, but I think its time for an update.

But I guess they are at the mercy of Intel chip revisions, if there's nothing new to warrant a whole new computer then I guess the wait continues.

Looking at Wikipedia for info on what to expect next from Intel I'm not seeing much in chip-pver-chip designs that would better the Mac Pro for the same price. It's quite possible that there is data missing or that Apple is one again working with Intel to make specialized chips. Maybe you can make a better guess as to what to expect in the next revision...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...icroprocessors
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...icroprocessors
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #127 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

How many new movies do they release in a year? How many would sell enough to perform a run in Blu-Ray?

DVD is an old technology now, it is cheap to produce.

The number of blu-ray movies available is increasing, and will continue to increase

We have a saying is research that goes, "If you don't want to hear the answer, don't ask the question.

Apparently as of Aug 27, 2008, more than 780 Blu-ray Disc titles have been released in the United States. Note that not all are movies.

In comparison, more than 12,000 titles have been released on DVD since January this year alone. Again not all are movies. Note, so far a little over 955 movies have been releases in the theatres since January.

So let's put this in perspective.

Blu-Ray is a great technology. Especially for HDTV. Still the final codec is to be decided. Still very expensive.

Sure, Blu-Ray movies look fantastic on a 24" iMac. But what about the rest of the family? Are you going to log off AppleInsider and share the screen?

True, moves have been made to manufacture players/recorders in China. Prices are expected to come down precipitously. However, only a test center has been designated in China so far, and the earliest production, if approved, could only start as early as December, if at all.

Although HDTV sales are on the rise, it is still in its infancy. Same goes for content. Movie studios produce over 2000 films a year, but Blu-Ray movies are still only averaging less than 25 new releases a month. And it is not like TV, with virtually a set in every room of the house, and an abundant number of them quite capable of playing videos via a very inexpensive DVD player.
post #128 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I could be wrong, but I think with the Montevina chipset, this is the first time that Apple can really offer BRD as an option that will actually play and output BR Media in all their glory, not just a super-high density optical backup option.

I don't see what that has to do with it. The computers Apple has been selling for two years are all powerful enough for this. PC laptops have had BD players, at least, for months.

This is just a decision to not include it in the OX and in the hardware as HDCP.
post #129 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Looking on my keyboard for the F19 key.

It's above the * key on the number pad, all the way to the right.
post #130 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson1 View Post

There have been several news reports of how, despite the BD / HD-DVD war being over, BluRay disc player sales have not taken off as many expected.

Sales have improved considerably, though maybe not the stand-alone players. It went from less than 1% of optical disc sales last December to 5-12% ever since. Last week, it was 8%. It pretty good for a format that is, IIRC, finishing its second year pretty soon. Most media formats don't take off as quickly as DVD did, I think DVD was a record breaker in terms of format acceptance, and even then it took about five years for DVD before it was outselling VHS.

Those stories may be figuring in the stand-alone players, as I understand it, the PS3 is really taking the market for BD players even if it's not always considered to be a BD player for the sake of a story or press release.
post #131 of 204
Looking forward to getting rid of the plastic on the MacBooks. Wouldn't metal be better wearing and environmentally greener?
post #132 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadisawesome View Post

how much was your burner? you don't need to buy a burner for a thumb drive.

how many friends and family have blueray drives that can use this media once you burn, every computer I know of has a usb port for a thumb drive.

there is a lot more associated with the storage outside of the cost of 1 disc vs a thumbdrive. I can also get an external harddrive with TB's of data, why not add that into your argument?

Prices are dropping substantially. You can get the new, and well reviewed, LG GBW-H20L for $279.99 at Best Buy. It will work just dandy with Toast.

So with several double layer BD disks, this will cost about the same as one 64Gb thumb drive (when you can find them).

But you can also buy as many disks as you like, and the more you buy, the more you amortize the cost of the drive, which also records DVD's, and CD's, so that you don't need an additional drive.

And who cares about other people here? That's an argument that's irrelevant. Most people can't use a USB thumb drive on their Tv, and most people don't want to stand crowded around someone's 20" monitor. Besides, more people ARE buying B-R drives for their video systems, even as a PS3. We have, and a number of my friends have as well.

The point to burning to CD, DVD, and BD is to NOT have to use a fragile HDD for your important data. That's not a good argument. We take our data disks, and store them in sleeves, on a shelf, and put the really important stuff into a safe deposit box. You going to do that with $350 thumb drives, or your 1TB HDD's?

No, I didn't think so.
post #133 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

We have a saying is research that goes, "If you don't want to hear the answer, don't ask the question.

Apparently as of Aug 27, 2008, more than 780 Blu-ray Disc titles have been released in the United States. Note that not all are movies.

In comparison, more than 12,000 titles have been released on DVD since January this year alone. Again not all are movies. Note, so far a little over 955 movies have been releases in the theatres since January.

So let's put this in perspective.

Blu-Ray is a great technology. Especially for HDTV. Still the final codec is to be decided. Still very expensive.

Sure, Blu-Ray movies look fantastic on a 24" iMac. But what about the rest of the family? Are you going to log off AppleInsider and share the screen?

True, moves have been made to manufacture players/recorders in China. Prices are expected to come down precipitously. However, only a test center has been designated in China so far, and the earliest production, if approved, could only start as early as December, if at all.

Although HDTV sales are on the rise, it is still in its infancy. Same goes for content. Movie studios produce over 2000 films a year, but Blu-Ray movies are still only averaging less than 25 new releases a month. And it is not like TV, with virtually a set in every room of the house, and an abundant number of them quite capable of playing videos via a very inexpensive DVD player.

I'm surprised at you. You usually put up a much better argument than this.

Bd is still new. It's arrived just as the worlds economies are going through a tough time.

The same thing was said about DVD vs VHS. People have invested in VHS, they won't buy the same movies again. Well, they did. It was also said that DVD players don't record, so people won't want them because they want to record. Well, most people don't want to record, and they did want them.

None of that matters. Despite a few wags here who think that downloads will win in the end, that end won't be for some time yet. Only when most people have true high speed connections will there be a chance for that.

Right now there is no download service that can offer anything close to the quality of a B-D disk, and we all know that.

Someone brought up the argument that not all B-D disks being offered are top material. Does anyone seriously think that anywhere near the full number of DVD releases is that top quality stuff? That's not even something that a fantasy would show to be true. The percentage of garbage on DVD is far greater that the same for B-D. Give it a few years, and that will change, if it matters to people.

As far as HDTV sales goes, here are some numbers:

http://www.parksassociates.com/press...05/hdtv-1.html

I wouldn't worry about people crowding around the monitor to watch B-D as they must to watch a thumb drive.
post #134 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Despite a few wags here who think that downloads will win in the end, that end won't be for some time yet. Only when most people have true high speed connections will there be a chance for that.

I agree with everything in your post but want to comment on this statement. I think what you've said is not really appreciated by some of the enthusiasts here who live in major metropolitan areas and are used to seeing the latest and greatest in technology (Verizon FIOS for instance). Well in rural areas such technolgy is slow to appear and may never appear. The costs involved with running fiber to the home makes such investments potentially unprofitable in rural areas where the population density is low.

With high speed broadband service downloaded hi def content looks attractive. Without it, it's really a non starter. I predict that rural areas will keep Blu-Ray around a lot longer than some people here think.
post #135 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

....None of that matters. Despite a few wags here who think that downloads will win in the end, that end won't be for some time yet. Only when most people have true high speed connections will there be a chance for that.

Right now there is no download service that can offer anything close to the quality of a B-D disk, and we all know that....

I agree with everything in your post but want to comment on this statement. I think what you've said is not really appreciated by some of the enthusiasts here who live in major metropolitan areas and are used to seeing the latest and greatest in technology (Verizon FIOS for instance). Well in rural areas such technolgy is slow to appear and may never appear. The costs involved with running fiber to the home makes such investments potentially unprofitable in rural areas where the population density is low.

With high speed broadband service downloaded hi def content looks attractive. Without it, it's really a non starter. I predict that rural areas will keep Blu-Ray around a lot longer than some people here think.

Thank you both! I can't believe the high-tech elitists on these forums who think the whole world has the kind of bandwidth coming into their house that they do (or wants to pay for it, either.) That won't be true for decades. Meanwhile the optical disc will continue to be the main source of quality video.

I hear many people saying: "So it turns out HDTV was nothing but hype!" Not all of them have me there to tell them that what they're watching is heavily compressed 720p, when they think they're getting full-bore 1080 HD. So these gearheads want to download even more severely compressed 720 p? And pay for it a la carte? No thanks!

Then there was the guy earlier who wanted to replace Blu-Ray discs with thumb drives. Never mind Blu-Ray, You can get a 4 GB thumb drive for $20. Meanwhile, I can get a DVD-R for 20 cents if I watch for sales. Until Thumb drives get down into that price category: again, no thanks!

What I'm afraid of is that this kind of unrealistic fantasy has a way of converting itself into self-fulfilling prophecy, especially in the computer business, and unfortunately I see Apple leading the charge down these roads to nowhere. I guess if they got people who have heard CD-quality sound to pay money for 128,000 bps noise, they figure Mencken's Law is still in full effect!*

*For those of you who don't know the quote, H. L. Mencken said: "No one ever went broke underestimating the taste or the intelligence of the American people." (Maybe the name should be changed to "Ballmer's Law" now?)
post #136 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac-sochist View Post

Thank you both! I can't believe the high-tech elitists on these forums who think the whole world has the kind of bandwidth coming into their house that they do (or wants to pay for it, either.) That won't be true for decades. Meanwhile the optical disc will continue to be the main source of quality video.

I hear many people saying: "So it turns out HDTV was nothing but hype!" Not all of them have me there to tell them that what they're watching is heavily compressed 720p, when they think they're getting full-bore 1080 HD. So these gearheads want to download even more severely compressed 720 p? And pay for it a la carte? No thanks!

Then there was the guy earlier who wanted to replace Blu-Ray discs with thumb drives. Never mind Blu-Ray, You can get a 4 GB thumb drive for $20. Meanwhile, I can get a DVD-R for 20 cents if I watch for sales. Until Thumb drives get down into that price category: again, no thanks!

What I'm afraid of is that this kind of unrealistic fantasy has a way of converting itself into self-fulfilling prophecy, especially in the computer business, and unfortunately I see Apple leading the charge down these roads to nowhere. I guess if they got people who have heard CD-quality sound to pay money for 128,000 bps noise, they figure Mencken's Law is still in full effect!*

*For those of you who don't know the quote, H. L. Mencken said: "No one ever went broke underestimating the taste or the intelligence of the American people." (Maybe the name should be changed to "Ballmer's Law" now?)

The problem some people have, particularly on technical forums such as this, is that they take their own preferences with them to the point that they ignore the reality of the majority.

I also have my own "snobbish" preferences, but I really do try to look at what most people can do, want to do, and can afford to do. Often my posts reflect that, rather than my own views. but, often enough, my views do coincide with those larger views.

I do have a 6Mb/sec connection, it's pretty good too. But I understand that most others do not. I also understand that even a 6Mb or 10Mb connection would be marginal for true high quality downloads.

I also try not to get too concerned with what MIGHT be true at some indeterminate time in the future. We have NO idea what that future will be, and can't properly prepare for it in areas such as this.

Why give up the pleasure and usefulness of a technology now, because it MAY be possible to do it another way some time in the future?

If we all did that, we would still not be using fire, because we would be waiting for something better.
post #137 of 204
For those of you so obsessed with B-R, get an external player for pittance.

If the MB actually does get an aluminum makeover, then I might actually get one again. I can't stand the shiny plastic MB and keep bear to keep one for longer than a few months
32" Sharp AQUOS (1080p) > 13" MacBook Pro 2.26GHz. 4Gb RAM . 32Gb Corsair Nova SSD >>> 500Gb HDD
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32" Sharp AQUOS (1080p) > 13" MacBook Pro 2.26GHz. 4Gb RAM . 32Gb Corsair Nova SSD >>> 500Gb HDD
Reply
post #138 of 204
Well, I see and understand the fact that the new MBPs and MBs will have a redesigned casing and will also have different chipsets. I'm going to get a Macbook Pro soon (could definitely get it within 2 weeks) and I want to know if It's really worth waiting a month or two for the new one. I see no problem with the current design of the MBP, and the tapered design doesnt really seem like a big deal. The question is then, do you guys see any new features coming out that would definitely make waiting for the new MBP worthwhile? Like, say, increased functionality to input methods (Better Multi-Touch, Media Control) or anything else along those lines? Because, If all thats going to change is a slightly different aluminum case, maybe 1/5 to 1/4 inch less, and a different chipset and slightly better CPU, then I don't see that big a difference.
post #139 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulcrux View Post

Well, I see and understand the fact that the new MBPs and MBs will have a redesigned casing and will also have different chipsets. I'm going to get a Macbook Pro soon (could definitely get it within 2 weeks) and I want to know if It's really worth waiting a month or two for the new one. I see no problem with the current design of the MBP, and the tapered design doesnt really seem like a big deal. The question is then, do you guys see any new features coming out that would definitely make waiting for the new MBP worthwhile? Like, say, increased functionality to input methods (Better Multi-Touch, Media Control) or anything else along those lines? Because, If all thats going to change is a slightly different aluminum case, maybe 1/5 to 1/4 inch less, and a different chipset and slightly better CPU, then I don't see that big a difference.

If they make the MBP any god damn thinner I'm gonna mail Steve Jobs a turd in a box.
post #140 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Machead99 View Post

If they make the MBP any god damn thinner I'm gonna mail Steve Jobs a turd in a box.

I can see it now...
The iTurd
Genius!
post #141 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulcrux View Post

I can see it now...
The iTurd
Genius!

I don't know if it is that funny. People here and elsewhere often complain about this practice from Apple's part to go only thinner with revisions. Many professionals would ask for a more sturdy MBP, even if the price to pay is weight and thickness.
post #142 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

We have a saying is research that goes, "If you don't want to hear the answer, don't ask the question.

Apparently as of Aug 27, 2008, more than 780 Blu-ray Disc titles have been released in the United States. Note that not all are movies.

In comparison, more than 12,000 titles have been released on DVD since January this year alone. Again not all are movies. Note, so far a little over 955 movies have been releases in the theatres since January.

So let's put this in perspective.

Lieing with statistics..

DVD is old now, how CD's are available? As time goes on availability will increase.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Blu-Ray is a great technology. Especially for HDTV. Still the final codec is to be decided. Still very expensive.

What are you talking about? What final codec? The video and audio codecs are already in place, MPEG-2, AVC, VC-1 for video, and numerous audio ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Sure, Blu-Ray movies look fantastic on a 24" iMac. But what about the rest of the family? Are you going to log off AppleInsider and share the screen?

Well at present if someone in my family wants to watch an blu-ray movie, they would place the disc in my PS3 and watch it on the TV connected to that.

But what happens when I want to go away and take that movie with me? I either purchase a laptop with blu-ray support, and I wait for Apple to pull their finger out and do something

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

True, moves have been made to manufacture players/recorders in China. Prices are expected to come down precipitously. However, only a test center has been designated in China so far, and the earliest production, if approved, could only start as early as December, if at all.

Which really has nothing to do with Apple being able to put blu-ray drives in their computers as an option, all the components needs are already available, and have been available for a long time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Although HDTV sales are on the rise, it is still in its infancy. Same goes for content. Movie studios produce over 2000 films a year, but Blu-Ray movies are still only averaging less than 25 new releases a month. And it is not like TV, with virtually a set in every room of the house, and an abundant number of them quite capable of playing videos via a very inexpensive DVD player.

True, there are more DVD players than Blu-Ray players.
And when DVD came out, there were more VHS players than DVD players.
And when the CD came out, there were more cassette decks than CD players
etc etc
post #143 of 204
Ok now we've all stoped having a fit over blu-ray lets get back on topic...

(predicted) macbook specs

1. Enclosure to be made of aluminum

2. 2.3GHz and 2.6GHz procesor speeds

3. 2GB RAM standard on all models

4. all modles 14" LED backlit dispaly

5. white models will have white keys, premium black model will have black keys.
(still same scrable tile shape!)


6. shipping with apple remote (made of aluminum)

7. intel x4500 intergrated grafics

8. 800MHz FSB

9. 3 x USB

10. 1 x FW 400

11. mini DVI (adapter included. Mini DVI to VGA)

12. Magsafe

13. backlit apple logo!

14. magnetic latch

15. NO blu ray or hd dvd\

16. smaller box!


look at

http://www.apple.com/environment/


apple themself say that the will stop using palstic in products and will use led displays!


tell me if you think im incorrect (in a nice way!) or if you think i have missed any thing !

Thanks
I hate 9 year olds with Ipods

What are they listening to, the Barbie Soundtrack???
Reply
I hate 9 year olds with Ipods

What are they listening to, the Barbie Soundtrack???
Reply
post #144 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I'm surprised at you. You usually put up a much better argument than this.

Bd is still new. It's arrived just as the worlds economies are going through a tough time.

The same thing was said about DVD vs VHS. People have invested in VHS, they won't buy the same movies again. Well, they did. It was also said that DVD players don't record, so people won't want them because they want to record. Well, most people don't want to record, and they did want them.

None of that matters. Despite a few wags here who think that downloads will win in the end, that end won't be for some time yet. Only when most people have true high speed connections will there be a chance for that.

Right now there is no download service that can offer anything close to the quality of a B-D disk, and we all know that.

Someone brought up the argument that not all B-D disks being offered are top material. Does anyone seriously think that anywhere near the full number of DVD releases is that top quality stuff? That's not even something that a fantasy would show to be true. The percentage of garbage on DVD is far greater that the same for B-D. Give it a few years, and that will change, if it matters to people.

As far as HDTV sales goes, here are some numbers:

http://www.parksassociates.com/press...05/hdtv-1.html

I wouldn't worry about people crowding around the monitor to watch B-D as they must to watch a thumb drive.

Mel, why shoot the messenger.

My comments were to simply point out that the format is not the issue. It is just that interest/sales does not reflect need/demand. As such, don't expect Blu-Ray to be part of Apple's new product offerings in very near future, certainly not this year.

How can Apple support an option that is still very expensive and used so relatively little?

To get player/recorder prices down, it has to start manufacturing is China. That scenario has not yet happened. And now the Chinese have come up with a new audio codec to compound the issue.

I am not questioning quality. But quality does not outsell quantity. Sure, flatscreen sales are up. Now we hear reports that as much as 35% of them are not HD as presented. Studios are, as the data shows, releasing a smidgen of new materials compared to the total titles hitting the stores. And some of the big players are just starting to introduce recorders in Europe*

What is discouraging is the language to some of FAQs posted on the official Blu-Ray Association web site.

For example, 2.6\tWhat about Blu-ray for PCs?

"There are plans for BD-ROM (read-only), BD-R (recordable) and BD-RE (rewritable) drives for PCs, and with the support of the worlds two largest PC manufacturers, HP and Dell, it's very likely that the technology will be adopted as the next-generation optical disc format for PC data storage and replace technologies such as DVD±R, DVD±RW, and DVD-RAM."

Although we know that there are internal drives available, what is disturbing is the lack of hype, reviews and announcements of introductions, particularly in Macworld and even more important, the governing association itself.

Bottom line. I just don't think that everything that has to go into making Blu-Ray an internal offering in the Mac, has yet to be achieved.

*http://www.techradar.com/news/home-c...-europe-461053
http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/#bluray_replace_dvd
post #145 of 204
can they just release these things already.... i dont know much but my instinct tells me they will release the ipods early in september and do these separately to avoid crowding out, and these will come out in october.

I dont see any reason to make the mbp thinner. It is already extremely compact. The mbp should be their flagship do it all laptop for power users, and if you want something really thin, get the air. I think this is the right way to have one ultra thin laptop and one powerful one. If they make the mbp thinner they will not be able to compete performance wise with the other top pc books.
post #146 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Mel, why shoot the messenger.

My comments were to simply point out that the format is not the issue. It is just that interest/sales does not reflect need/demand. As such, don't expect Blu-Ray to be part of Apple's new product offerings in very near future, certainly not this year.

How can Apple support an option that is still very expensive and used so relatively little?

To get player/recorder prices down, it has to start manufacturing is China. That scenario has not yet happened. And now the Chinese have come up with a new audio codec to compound the issue.

I am not questioning quality. But quality does not outsell quantity. Sure, flatscreen sales are up. Now we hear reports that as much as 35% of them are not HD as presented. Studios are, as the data shows, releasing a smidgen of new materials compared to the total titles hitting the stores. And some of the big players are just starting to introduce recorders in Europe*

What is discouraging is the language to some of FAQs posted on the official Blu-Ray Association web site.

For example, 2.6\tWhat about Blu-ray for PCs?

"There are plans for BD-ROM (read-only), BD-R (recordable) and BD-RE (rewritable) drives for PCs, and with the support of the worlds two largest PC manufacturers, HP and Dell, it's very likely that the technology will be adopted as the next-generation optical disc format for PC data storage and replace technologies such as DVD±R, DVD±RW, and DVD-RAM."

Although we know that there are internal drives available, what is disturbing is the lack of hype, reviews and announcements of introductions, particularly in Macworld and even more important, the governing association itself.

Bottom line. I just don't think that everything that has to go into making Blu-Ray an internal offering in the Mac, has yet to be achieved.

*http://www.techradar.com/news/home-c...-europe-461053
http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/#bluray_replace_dvd

Since when has Apple cared about cost? Never.

Cost is not the issue. It's that Apple is going in a direction that they think is better for them. Because of that, BD would b a distraction, and water down the message.

When Apple went to DVD burning, that was the message. iMovie. FCP, etc. So they included the $1,000 Pioneer DVD burner before anyone else did. No cost issue there. Today that burner would cost about$1,300. That is not a detriment to inclusion in a Mac Pro. When the prices come down, it gets included in cheaper machines.

But the price has already come down,. I pointed out that a new burner costs $280. Apple would get them much cheaper. When the included the Pioneer, they didn't even charge extra! They were pushing burning very hard back then.

Now, they MUST include DVD, but they are trying to avoid BD. They no longer care about burning, as they don't see it as a big selling point right now as opposed to the desire to control purchasing, and rentals, through iTunes.

As I've been saying since this issue first came up, it's a matter of lack of desire on their part, not pricing or ability.

BD is becoming more popular with time, an a decent number f people want one. But Apple doesn't care. They have their agenda.

For reviews and such this is a good site:

http://www.cdfreaks.com/

Forget Macworld. Who cares? They aren't interested unless Apple already does it.
post #147 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Since when has Apple cared about cost? Never.

Cost is not the issue. It's that Apple is going in a direction that they think is better for them. Because of that, BD would b a distraction, and water down the message.

When Apple went to DVD burning, that was the message. iMovie. FCP, etc. So they included the $1,000 Pioneer DVD burner before anyone else did. No cost issue there. Today that burner would cost about$1,300. That is not a detriment to inclusion in a Mac Pro. When the prices come down, it gets included in cheaper machines.

But the price has already come down,. I pointed out that a new burner costs $280. Apple would get them much cheaper. When the included the Pioneer, they didn't even charge extra! They were pushing burning very hard back then.

Now, they MUST include DVD, but they are trying to avoid BD. They no longer care about burning, as they don't see it as a big selling point right now as opposed to the desire to control purchasing, and rentals, through iTunes.

As I've been saying since this issue first came up, it's a matter of lack of desire on their part, not pricing or ability.

BD is becoming more popular with time, an a decent number f people want one. But Apple doesn't care. They have their agenda.

For reviews and such this is a good site:

http://www.cdfreaks.com/

Forget Macworld. Who cares? They aren't interested unless Apple already does it.

Mel, before I go further, please provide link to that $280 burner.

Thank you.
post #148 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Mel, before I go further, please provide link to that $280 burner.

Thank you.

Go to that site. It was just reviewed there.
post #149 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Go to that site. It was just reviewed there.

Thank you

Issues:

Slow, about and hour and a half to write 50 Gbs
External only?
Not Mac compatible?
Not writable?

Wouldn't it be better just to buy this and use it on all machines?
post #150 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Thank you

Issues:

Slow, about and hour and a half to write 50 Gbs
External only?
Not Mac compatible?
Not writable?

Wouldn't it be better just to buy this and use it on all machines?

It's Mac compatible if you used Toast as I mentioned before. Just as all CD and DVD writers were over the years were when Apple refused to support drives they didn't sell.

You can install any standard sized drive in a Mac that will take a standard sized drive.

I'm not saying this will fit an iMac or a portable. That was the case with early CD and DVD drives as well. It will fit a Mac Pro very nicely.. Then use Toast, or some other program.

It's faster when writing to a non rewritable disk as is always the case with optical drives.

The point though, is to have something that will outlast data on a HDD, and be far cheaper than a large thumb drive, while being much easier to file in a library, which is the way we keep valuable data and projects.
post #151 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I'm not saying this will fit an iMac or a portable. .

There are BR drives that fit portables as Dell offers them as a BTO option on some of their laptops.
post #152 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

There are BR drives that fit portables as Dell offers them as a BTO option on some of their laptops.

That's true, but I was referring to this drive in particular, and it's possible that those drives aren't thin enough for Apples purposes.
post #153 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

It's Mac compatible if you used Toast as I mentioned before. Just as all CD and DVD writers were over the years were when Apple refused to support drives they didn't sell.

You can install any standard sized drive in a Mac that will take a standard sized drive.

I'm not saying this will fit an iMac or a portable. That was the case with early CD and DVD drives as well. It will fit a Mac Pro very nicely.. Then use Toast, or some other program.

It's faster when writing to a non rewritable disk as is always the case with optical drives.

The point though, is to have something that will outlast data on a HDD, and be far cheaper than a large thumb drive, while being much easier to file in a library, which is the way we keep valuable data and projects.

Sorry Mel, but this thread started in reference to iMac and Macbook as the actual article does.

Now I would like to bring up another issue with Blu-Ray. Unless you are storing video, one has to question its value as a backup medium. Certainly Time Machine or Capsule needs a rewritable format.

At the current prices for blank discs, there will undoubtedly by a hesitancy to burn. For the average consumer, finding content may be a problem. And a simple mistake could be very expensive. Then there is cataloging.

Looking over my shoulder, I have over a thousand CDs/DVDs indexed using CDFInder, which without it, I would be totally lost. But, as for most users, such backups and indexing are not the norm. Thus the success of Time Machine and Time Capsule.

And they combined with another important factor I know you are well aware, i.e., Apples/Jobs push toward Cloud computing, Blu-ray may just end up for watching movies.
post #154 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by gooo View Post

I have an ipod touch.

Good for you.
post #155 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

And they combined with another important factor I know you are well aware, i.e., Apples/Jobs push toward Cloud computing, Blu-ray may just end up for watching movies.

They can push all they like, services like Mobile Me have proved it is no where near being a viable option.
post #156 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Sorry Mel, but this thread started in reference to iMac and Macbook as the actual article does.

Now I would like to bring up another issue with Blu-Ray. Unless you are storing video, one has to question its value as a backup medium. Certainly Time Machine or Capsule needs a rewritable format.

At the current prices for blank discs, there will undoubtedly by a hesitancy to burn. For the average consumer, finding content may be a problem. And a simple mistake could be very expensive. Then there is cataloging.

Looking over my shoulder, I have over a thousand CDs/DVDs indexed using CDFInder, which without it, I would be totally lost. But, as for most users, such backups and indexing are not the norm. Thus the success of Time Machine and Time Capsule.

And they combined with another important factor I know you are well aware, i.e., Apples/Jobs push toward Cloud computing, Blu-ray may just end up for watching movies.

I agree that there are other backup mediums for users to choose from. And personally I find external drives and flash more appealing for most of my needs. Still there are others that may find that BR is best for them. Anyway the storage feature is but one of the features in BR.

In the end I think Apple would be wise to offer it, perhaps as a BTO option, and let users decide.
post #157 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Sorry Mel, but this thread started in reference to iMac and Macbook as the actual article does.

Now I would like to bring up another issue with Blu-Ray. Unless you are storing video, one has to question its value as a backup medium. Certainly Time Machine or Capsule needs a rewritable format.

At the current prices for blank discs, there will undoubtedly by a hesitancy to burn. For the average consumer, finding content may be a problem. And a simple mistake could be very expensive. Then there is cataloging.

Looking over my shoulder, I have over a thousand CDs/DVDs indexed using CDFInder, which without it, I would be totally lost. But, as for most users, such backups and indexing are not the norm. Thus the success of Time Machine and Time Capsule.

And they combined with another important factor I know you are well aware, i.e., Apples/Jobs push toward Cloud computing, Blu-ray may just end up for watching movies.

Yes it did start out that way, but sometimes expanding it is sensible. With new tech, often Apple starts it on its pro desktop line.

You have to understand what I'm talking about when I mean backup. I'm not talking about a Time Machine backup. I really did think that was clear. Sorry if it wasn't.

When I shoot gigabytes of photos in a day, I need to back that info up. While I have it on three places on the computer, as you must do, I need a safer place to store it. that means offline backups. The way we do this in the industry is CD, DVD, and now, BD. The same is true of movie projects. When my friends shoot a fashion shoot, and end up with 50 GB of photos, they too back it up on optical disk(s). That has been DVD of late, but is now moving to BD as well. The same thing is true for any large data sets that you need to backup for safe keeping.

Perhaps I should be using the term "archive" instead, because that's what it really is.

I've been saying all along that Apple isn't supporting BD at this time because of their downloads business. Thats the real problem here.

The truth is that recently, Apple is being far too restrictive. They aren't letting their customers choose for themselves. They offer many options on their machines, and there is no reason why they couldn't offer this as well.

The people here who aren't interested, don't have to buy it. But they (I'm not saying you're one of them) are just as bad as Apple, they want to restrict what we can choose to do too. That's just plain wrong. As the posts have shown, there are a good number of people who do want BD on the machine, and damn their download business, Apple should give us the choice. I'm beginning to resent the fact that they may decide not to.
post #158 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

I find your stance quite bizarre. Why would you not want a BD player in Apple hardware? It's the current state of the art in movie playback, absolutely nothing comes anywhere near it. (not since the death of HD DVD anyway) BD movies would look fantastic on the 24" iMac screen.

Plus BDs are a great backup format, VASTLY superior to any thumb drive on the planet in fact. Look at the price of a blank 25gb blu-ray.

Go away and watch Blade Runner on a 50 or 60" Pioneer plasma from a Blu-Ray then see how you feel about the format.

You have captured my own feeling about blue ray fairly well. Why would you waste the output of the sharpest video possible by showing it on a tiny 15 to 17 inch screen ?- It's a lot harder to see the difference from standard DVDs there - now running on a 50 or 60 inch 1080p TV is another thing altogether, and the difference between blue ray and the best DVDs is something you can see - (although not as great as the difference between video tape or SD TV and DVD.) If I didn't have blue ray hooked up to a big screen HD TV that could show 1080p, I just don't see the need for the technology on a computer. Why pay the extra for Blue Ray movies just to watch them on a tiny screen?

And having done it with CDs vs. flash vs. portable hard drive, I'll take the flash for presentations and other stuff you need to carry around and put on someone elses machine (which probably doesn't have BRay) and the external hard drive as easier to routinely back up the computer HD.

Apple would be wise to make this a BTO if at all.
post #159 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jbach67 View Post

You have captured my own feeling about blue ray fairly well. Why would you waste the output of the sharpest video possible by showing it on a tiny 15 to 17 inch screen ?- It's a lot harder to see the difference from standard DVDs there - now running on a 50 or 60 inch 1080p TV is another thing altogether, and the difference between blue ray and the best DVDs is something you can see - (although not as great as the difference between video tape or SD TV and DVD.)

There's more to it than the size of the screen, and I would argue the reverse of what you say, that it would be likely more noticeable in a notebook computer. A 15" screen 18" away from your eyes is roughly the same as a 60" screen 6ft away, it would have the same field of view. What you don't get in a notebook is good sound, unless you're into good headphones too.
post #160 of 204
Stop with all the Blu-Ray talk. This is not about Blu-Ray at all, aside from whether or not they will but a BD drive in the computers, which they won't, so case closed there.

Get back on topic.

NEW MACBOOKS AND MACBOOK PROS!!!

Alright....GO!
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