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iPods, MacBooks, iMacs up next on Apple's 2008 roadmap - Page 5

post #161 of 204
8/29/08 at 9:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jbach67 View Post

You have captured my own feeling about blue ray fairly well. Why would you waste the output of the sharpest video possible by showing it on a tiny 15 to 17 inch screen ?- It's a lot harder to see the difference from standard DVDs there - now running on a 50 or 60 inch 1080p TV is another thing altogether, and the difference between blue ray and the best DVDs is something you can see - (although not as great as the difference between video tape or SD TV and DVD.) If I didn't have blue ray hooked up to a big screen HD TV that could show 1080p, I just don't see the need for the technology on a computer. Why pay the extra for Blue Ray movies just to watch them on a tiny screen?

And having done it with CDs vs. flash vs. portable hard drive, I'll take the flash for presentations and other stuff you need to carry around and put on someone elses machine (which probably doesn't have BRay) and the external hard drive as easier to routinely back up the computer HD.

Apple would be wise to make this a BTO if at all.

He's right. Blade Runner is one of the two "old" movies in BD that I bought. It looks wonderful on my 61".

But you would be surprised at just how good these look on a high quality 24" monitor.

You are misunderstanding the backup issue though.
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post #162 of 204
8/29/08 at 9:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICD-EVIL View Post

Stop with all the Blu-Ray talk. This is not about Blu-Ray at all, aside from whether or not they will but a BD drive in the computers, which they won't, so case closed there.

Get back on topic.

NEW MACBOOKS AND MACBOOK PROS!!!

Alright....GO!

It's what we make of it.
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post #163 of 204
8/30/08 at 11:29am
holy crap stop talking about blu-ray this thread is not a bout blu-ray. if you want to discuss blu-ray go back lieka month find thew blu-ray thread and keep going with it
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post #164 of 204
8/30/08 at 11:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerfman View Post

holy crap stop talking about blu-ray this thread is not a bout blu-ray.

I really don't get this sort of comment. It's a feature that some people are hoping would get added to the product line on the next update, that's how the discussion arose. I too would like it, but I'm realistic enough to know that it's probably not going to happen.
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post #165 of 204
8/30/08 at 12:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerfman View Post

holy crap stop talking about blu-ray this thread is not a bout blu-ray. if you want to discuss blu-ray go back lieka month find thew blu-ray thread and keep going with it

Thank you, newbie, for telling us what to do.

We'll be sure to reciprocate when you say something we don't think is proper, such as, well, this.
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post #166 of 204
8/30/08 at 1:29pm
I will buy the new MBP 17" (with High Res screen and largest HD) as soon it is released.

If Writable (or RW) BluRay is an BTO I will definitely take that too - for the first year or so I will probably mostly use the BR for backup purposes (I have around 50 Gb photos on my PB, and doing multiple DVD backups is a pain), later on I might enjoy other aspects/benefits of having an internal BR.

For me, keeping as much as possible (both soft- and hardware vise) in the MBP is vital - and having a internal drive that is able to read/write most formats is definitely a plus, and more so in one or two years.
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post #167 of 204
8/30/08 at 4:54pm
It always just have to boil down to the same old "I'm right and you are wrong, my brain is bigger then yours"...

Keep it up guy's it's fun to read...

what ever Apple is planning for the mac line products it probably wont be revolutionary on the engineering part (I hope I'm wrong) we will most likely see a bunch of new casings for laptops and maybe the MP...

Blu-Ray or no Blu-Ray it's always fun to see what Apple pulls out of the hat...

See you around kids and don't stop the arguing/discussing.
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post #168 of 204
8/30/08 at 11:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by monosound View Post

It always just have to boil down to the same old "I'm right and you are wrong, my brain is bigger then yours"...

Keep it up guy's it's fun to read...

what ever Apple is planning for the mac line products it probably wont be revolutionary on the engineering part (I hope I'm wrong) we will most likely see a bunch of new casings for laptops and maybe the MP...

Blu-Ray or no Blu-Ray it's always fun to see what Apple pulls out of the hat...

See you around kids and don't stop the arguing/discussing.

The problem we have here is that all of our brains are so big that some of the IQ leaks out of our ears from being squeezed like a grape in the winepress of our skulls.
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post #169 of 204
8/31/08 at 4:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

They can push all they like, services like Mobile Me have proved it is no where near being a viable option.

You don't even have an iPhone.

You keep bringing up the past.

I, my clients and students are using it with no concern.

At least spell the name properly.
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post #170 of 204
9/1/08 at 12:04pm
Intel has updated their price list with new low cost processors. Would these suit an upgraded Mac Mini?
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #171 of 204
9/1/08 at 12:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Intel has updated their price list with new low cost processors. Would these suit an upgraded Mac Mini?

Apple has never used the low end in their Mac Mini. They aren't pushing the threshold with it by any means and it's due for an update or a retirement, but the chips are always the mid-level CPUs. Even the original with Intel based Mni with the low-end Core Solo still wasn't Celeron quality.

With these lower TDPs, thus less heat, and small packages can we expect to see Desktop-grade chips in the next iMacs or will they just make it even thinner? Using desktop grades will increase the speed while lowering the price of the processor, too.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #172 of 204
9/1/08 at 3:34pm
There is a site where you can bet play money on questions like this. Here is where you can go to register and pick up your $2000 grubstake (of play money): http://www.hubdub.com/s/BVSZ5CC79K

I've posted the question, "What will Apple's 'product transition' be?", along with the following nine choices and their current odds, at this location:
http://www.hubdub.com/m14893/What_wi..._Transition_be

\tA video encode/decode chip in any Mac &/or iPod \t20% \t
\t
\tSome other specialized chip in any Mac &/or iPod \t9%
\t
\tLEDs to provide backlighting in any Mac &/or iPod \t9%
\t
\tBundled third-party software in any Apple product \t5%
\t
\tSomething other than the above in any Mac (only) \t9%
\t
\tSomething other than the above in any iPod (only) \t 9%
\t
\tSomething other than the above in both Mac & iPod 10%
\t
\tSomething other than the above for the iPhone \t 2%
\t
\tSomething else (for Apple TV, a new product, etc.) \t28%


PS: If you search for "Apple" on that site you'll find over a dozen other questions you can "bet" on.
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post #173 of 204
9/1/08 at 3:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Knights View Post

There is a site where you can bet play money on questions like this. Here is where you can go to register and pick up your $2000 grubstake (of play money):

Are you spamming us? Cross-posting the same thing on several threads is a little rude.
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post #174 of 204
9/2/08 at 12:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Are you spamming us? Cross-posting the same thing on several threads is a little rude.

Obviously, it's spam.
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post #175 of 204
9/4/08 at 4:23am
Wonder if the prices of the MacBook and MacBook Pro are gonna change? I'm most likely going for the Pro (might consider the MacBook now though, since it comes in alloy). Would the upgrade to the alloy case "force" Apple to up the MacBook prices?
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post #176 of 204
9/4/08 at 4:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasmoose View Post

Wonder if the prices of the MacBook and MacBook Pro are gonna change? I'm most likely going for the Pro (might consider the MacBook now though, since it comes in alloy). Would the upgrade to the alloy case "force" Apple to up the MacBook prices?

Using aluminum bodies shouldn't raise prices. Even Dell's XPS models are made mostly of aluminum, and they start at $1,000.
32" Sharp AQUOS (1080p) > 13" MacBook Pro 2.26GHz. 4Gb RAM . 32Gb Corsair Nova SSD >>> 500Gb HDD
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32" Sharp AQUOS (1080p) > 13" MacBook Pro 2.26GHz. 4Gb RAM . 32Gb Corsair Nova SSD >>> 500Gb HDD
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post #177 of 204
9/4/08 at 9:47pm
If someone wants a Blu-Ray drive for back-ups, then an external Blu-Ray drive is the obvious solution. Apple, please don't weigh our laptops down with optical drives.
Mac user since August 1983.
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Mac user since August 1983.
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post #178 of 204
9/4/08 at 9:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by applebook View Post

Using aluminum bodies shouldn't raise prices. Even Dell's XPS models are made mostly of aluminum, and they start at $1,000.

Aluminum is most costly than plastic. It's even more costly than steel as I hear it's harder to ore* and purify,

* Yes, I'm using it as a verb even though it's only accepted as a noun.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post

If someone wants a Blu-Ray drive for back-ups, then an external Blu-Ray drive is the obvious solution. Apple, please don't weigh our laptops down with optical drives.

Hear, hear! I'm highly skeptical of it happening just yet but optical drives are getting like floppy drives and need to be removed. I hope Apple will push the threshold with this transition, too. They can still offer the MBA optical drive, the Remote Disc option, and offer their OS on specialized flash drives.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #179 of 204
9/4/08 at 11:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Aluminum is most costly than plastic. It's even more costly than steel as I hear it's harder to get the ore* and purify,

* Yes, I'm using it as a verb even though it's only accepted as a noun.



Hear, hear! I'm highly skeptical of it happening just yet but optical drives are getting like floppy drives and need to be removed. I hope Apple will push the threshold with this transition, too. They can still offer the MBA optical drive, the Remote Disc option, and offer their OS on specialized flash drives.


Um... you used ore as a noun.
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post #180 of 204
9/4/08 at 11:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Hear, hear! I'm highly skeptical of it happening just yet but optical drives are getting like floppy drives and need to be removed. I hope Apple will push the threshold with this transition, too. They can still offer the MBA optical drive, the Remote Disc option, and offer their OS on specialized flash drives.

This isn't a serious response from you, is it?
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post #181 of 204
9/4/08 at 11:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Um... you used ore as a noun.

Oops. Corrected.


Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

This isn't a serious response from you, is it?

Yes, the optical drives in notebooks take up too much space and are used very little by most. What is your argument that optical drives should be retained?
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post #182 of 204
9/4/08 at 11:10pm
I never said that aluminum was cheaper to produce than plastic, only that competitors now offer aluminum notebooks for the same price as the plastic MacBook, so if Apple actually wants customers to be happy, it will release those aluminum MacBooks are the same current prices.
32" Sharp AQUOS (1080p) > 13" MacBook Pro 2.26GHz. 4Gb RAM . 32Gb Corsair Nova SSD >>> 500Gb HDD
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32" Sharp AQUOS (1080p) > 13" MacBook Pro 2.26GHz. 4Gb RAM . 32Gb Corsair Nova SSD >>> 500Gb HDD
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post #183 of 204
9/4/08 at 11:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post

If someone wants a Blu-Ray drive for back-ups, then an external Blu-Ray drive is the obvious solution. Apple, please don't weigh our laptops down with optical drives.

If given a choice between two notebooks --

A) No optical drive, space saved for better fans and cooling and less eight, plus $50 less
B) Optical drive

I've take notebook A. However, where the Air fails is its 80Gb disk. With a drive that small, users will have to be tied down to external stuff all the time.

For those of us with MacBooks and internal disks of 200Gb or greater, we rarely do need to use our optical drives.
32" Sharp AQUOS (1080p) > 13" MacBook Pro 2.26GHz. 4Gb RAM . 32Gb Corsair Nova SSD >>> 500Gb HDD
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32" Sharp AQUOS (1080p) > 13" MacBook Pro 2.26GHz. 4Gb RAM . 32Gb Corsair Nova SSD >>> 500Gb HDD
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post #184 of 204
9/4/08 at 11:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by applebook View Post

I never said that aluminum was cheaper to produce than plastic, only that competitors now offer aluminum notebooks for the same price as the plastic MacBook, so if Apple actually wants customers to be happy, it will release those aluminum MacBooks are the same current prices.

Ah, I read your, "Using aluminum bodies shouldn't raise prices." comment to mean that the case cost wouldn't change. There are plastic computers that cost a lot more than the MBP. The case cost is very minimal compared to many other components in the system. It's considered a higher-end choice, but the overall cost of the MB, if they did it wouldn't be much more than the current total. This may be part of the lower margins that were mentioned for this quarter.
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post #185 of 204
9/5/08 at 12:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Yes, the optical drives in notebooks take up too much space and are used very little by most. What is your argument that optical drives should be retained?

Just that I don't agree.
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post #186 of 204
9/5/08 at 2:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Yes, the optical drives in notebooks take up too much space and are used very little by most. What is your argument that optical drives should be retained?

Ripping CDs (and DVDs) into iTunes. Something a lot of us do a lot of the time. In fact it's more likely that MacBook users do this than MBP users.
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post #187 of 204
9/5/08 at 5:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Ripping CDs (and DVDs) into iTunes. Something a lot of us do a lot of the time. In fact it's more likely that MacBook users do this than MBP users.

+++

Keep the optical drive at least until the iTunes music store is DRM free. Then music purchased there will be equivalent to music on a CD. IMO, music purchased with DRM is inferior to that on a CD.
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post #188 of 204
9/5/08 at 6:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

+++

Keep the optical drive at least until the iTunes music store is DRM free. Then music purchased there will be equivalent to music on a CD. IMO, music purchased with DRM is inferior to that on a CD.

Even if iTunes is DRM free, I still greatly prefer buying physical media if it's at a similar price. You have an immediate, lossless backup, all the artwork, and commutability. It's really a far greater value than a data file you have to back up, and rip to a CD so that you can share with non-technophile friends or use in a car or home CD unit.
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post #189 of 204
9/5/08 at 8:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I really don't get this sort of comment. It's a feature that some people are hoping would get added to the product line on the next update, that's how the discussion arose. I too would like it, but I'm realistic enough to know that it's probably not going to happen.

IMO, one would be crazy to buy a $1,800 desktop or a $2,800 laptop that didn't include Blu-Ray support at this point in time; you're not going to be able to add it in later, and most people would hang on to a computer that price for 3-4 years. That's a long time to be stuck behind the curve. It'd be great if Apple included Blu-Ray support in time for this Christmas, but I think you're right that we realistically won't see it until Macworld January.
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post #190 of 204
9/5/08 at 8:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by applebook View Post

I never said that aluminum was cheaper to produce than plastic, only that competitors now offer aluminum notebooks for the same price as the plastic MacBook, so if Apple actually wants customers to be happy, it will release those aluminum MacBooks are the same current prices.

The only ones (other than Apple's) I've seen are plastic painted with a fake metal look. Can you provide a brand and model number?

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Aluminum is most costly than plastic. It's even more costly than steel as I hear it's harder to ore* and purify,

I'm not sure the plastic material itself is the cheap part, I think it's the manufacture, injection molding is a cheap and easy process. By volume, common plastics can easily cost as much as aluminum.

Quote:
Hear, hear! I'm highly skeptical of it happening just yet but optical drives are getting like floppy drives and need to be removed. I hope Apple will push the threshold with this transition, too. They can still offer the MBA optical drive, the Remote Disc option, and offer their OS on specialized flash drives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post

If someone wants a Blu-Ray drive for back-ups, then an external Blu-Ray drive is the obvious solution. Apple, please don't weigh our laptops down with optical drives.

The drives aren't that heavy, I think about the weight of an iPhone. I'll have to check. I would prefer to have a bay, though that has potential for problems too, but when the drive in my old Compaq died, I slapped in a new one. And I have an option to put a hard drive or battery there instead too.
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post #191 of 204
9/5/08 at 8:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

+++

Keep the optical drive at least until the iTunes music store is DRM free. Then music purchased there will be equivalent to music on a CD. IMO, music purchased with DRM is inferior to that on a CD.

A lot of photographers shooting in the field take MBP's, and use DVD to do immediate backups of their files. The fewer things carried means less to get lost, break, or otherwise cause problems with cables etc.

One of the biggest complaints about the Air is that it DOESN'T have a built-in drive. People on these forums have been complaining about that. This isn't the time to stop having built-in optical drives.

There are also those of us who don't want to buy compressed music.
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post #192 of 204
9/5/08 at 8:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

A lot of photographers shooting in the field take MBP's, and use DVD to do immediate backups of their files. The fewer things carried means less to get lost, break, or otherwise cause problems with cables etc.

One of the biggest complaints about the Air is that it DOESN'T have a built-in drive. People on these forums have been complaining about that. This isn't the time to stop having built-in optical drives.

There are also those of us who don't want to buy compressed music.

You're preaching to the choir.

I've argued in another thread that the MB and MBP should keep the optical drive. I think that it'll eventually get phased out, at least on the MB. You do bring up a good justification for keeping it on the MBP though.

I would like to see BR get added to some Macs. At least the pro machines.
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post #193 of 204
9/5/08 at 9:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

A lot of photographers shooting in the field take MBP's, and use DVD to do immediate backups of their files. The fewer things carried means less to get lost, break, or otherwise cause problems with cables etc.

One of the biggest complaints about the Air is that it DOESN'T have a built-in drive. People on these forums have been complaining about that. This isn't the time to stop having built-in optical drives.

There are also those of us who don't want to buy compressed music.

This is a really good point. Thanks for making it. I would add that about 99% of professional photographers do exactly this. Of course, when we get SSD drives with 256 Gb+ capacities and above and superfast wireless transfer of data, we may have to revisit this question. But for now, an in-built DVD drive is a must have, especially if your MacBook is your only computer.
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post #194 of 204
9/5/08 at 9:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by crocodile View Post

This is a really good point. Thanks for making it. I would add that about 99% of professional photographers do exactly this. Of course, when we get SSD drives with 256 Gb+ capacities and above and superfast wireless transfer of data, we may have to revisit this question. But for now, an in-built DVD drive is a must have, especially if your MacBook is your only computer.

I would contend that DVD backups, while still common, are not the most efficient means for making a backup. A DVD will hold ~4 to 8.5GB, if it's just for backup the process of making hte temp file, burning the disc and then checking the disc is all very time consuming.The faster you do the burning the more likely you are to have a disc error, you can even have a bad disc, in general, but won't know until you get a burn error while burning. Now, a 250GB external HDD will easily fit in any bag you carry your computer (and takes less room than a spool or case of discs that match it's capacity, they are inexpensive compared to Flash, and is considerably faster to make a copy with than using any optical format.y completed

I understand that they would want to give their customers a copy on optical formats after they completed their work, but how many are only using notebooks for this? I am under that impression that a photographer should be using a high-quality monitor for such work. If so, then wherever they have their monitor they can also have any number of CD/DVD/BR burners that attach by FW or USB.
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post #195 of 204
9/5/08 at 9:59am
I would have thought a USB2 or Firewire Thumb Drive would be better for this sort of backup.
Transfer times would be much faster, and the media more reliable.
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post #196 of 204
9/5/08 at 11:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I would contend that DVD backups, while still common, are not the most efficient means for making a backup. A DVD will hold ~4 to 8.5GB, if it's just for backup the process of making hte temp file, burning the disc and then checking the disc is all very time consuming.The faster you do the burning the more likely you are to have a disc error, you can even have a bad disc, in general, but won't know until you get a burn error while burning. Now, a 250GB external HDD will easily fit in any bag you carry your computer (and takes less room than a spool or case of discs that match it's capacity, they are inexpensive compared to Flash, and is considerably faster to make a copy with than using any optical format.y completed

I understand that they would want to give their customers a copy on optical formats after they completed their work, but how many are only using notebooks for this? I am under that impression that a photographer should be using a high-quality monitor for such work. If so, then wherever they have their monitor they can also have any number of CD/DVD/BR burners that attach by FW or USB.

YOu must be someone who is always in the house, and never touches his stuff. HDD get dropped when they are external. They also fail at high rates when outside.

Dropping a DVD, even in water, rarely causes it to become damaged, unless it's out of the jacket which it's immediately put in when burning is finished.

What you're saying here has nothing to dowith the real world.

The fact of the matter is, that's the way it's done, even when in the studio. Period!

It USED to be on tape, and later on other HDDs. But when studios found those HDDs to be unreadable after a year or so, that idea died real fast.

You obviously don't do this kind of work, so your reasons don't work either. Don't forget that this was my business for decades. I'm familiar with all of this nonsense since film. We used to make dupes for photographers, and studios, for safety. Then digital scans on CD, now, it's DVD, and moving, whenever possible, to BD.

Perhaps the casual user may not NEED an optical drive, but most will still want one.

Every time we discuss having to take something external because a Mac doesn't have one, people here complain about that. So, leave the Air as the crippled machine for now.
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post #197 of 204
9/5/08 at 11:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

I would have thought a USB2 or Firewire Thumb Drive would be better for this sort of backup.
Transfer times would be much faster, and the media more reliable.

No. No one accepts thumb drives as an asset. Maybe someday, but not now. If you try to give an ad agency a thumb drive, you'll get a funny look, and will be told to put it on a Cd, or DVD.

You also don't want to FedEx thumb drives. I've heard of them arriving with the data corrupted from some methods they use to check packages.
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post #198 of 204
9/5/08 at 11:53am
Rather than fight over the need for an optical drive, couldn't Apple simply make a dual-use bay so that users have the choice of picking the optical or using an extra battery?

Let's move on, shall we?
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #199 of 204
9/5/08 at 12:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

YOu must be someone who is always in the house, and never touches his stuff. HDD get dropped when they are external. They also fail at high rates when outside.

[...]

I yield to you points about the professional end of things, but I still feel that this will happen within the next three years (within 2 case revisions) since it does take up consider room in a notebook while offering seldom usage to most.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Rather than fight over the need for an optical drive, couldn't Apple simply make a dual-use bay so that users have the choice of picking the optical or using an extra battery?

Let's move on, shall we?

That would mean making a latch and having seams in the design. I think Jobs has nightmares about these things so I'd say it's not likely, but I'd sure go for it.
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post #200 of 204
9/5/08 at 12:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Rather than fight over the need for an optical drive, couldn't Apple simply make a dual-use bay so that users have the choice of picking the optical or using an extra battery?

Let's move on, shall we?

Since you raised one issue, and just raised another, with a question, it's odd that you would say that we should move on. We would have, if you didn't respond in that way.

A couple here are asking for NO optical drive, no slot for it, etc.

As a bay is even larger than a permanent drive by itself, I doubt they would want that either, but maybe...
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