Update: how the 2.0.2 software update addressed iPhone 3G dropped calls

What came first - the chicken or the egg?
Is it Apple or is it AT&T...?
Is it AT&T or is it Apple...?

I'm surprised that handsets are able to dictate to the tower how much power to send out. It seems like a malicious device could be constructed from this idea.

While interesting from a technical stand point this doesn't solve all of iPhone's cell problems. It is a good machine but needs a lot of work to turn it into a great machine.

Dave

That is the whole principle of CDMA which UMTS and HSDPA are based off of. The analogy is if your in a crowded room and everyone is talking to everyone else in the room, you need to either be closer to the person your talking to or speak louder than everyone else.

The whole principle behind CDMA is that everyone speaks to the tower at the same level and they "decode" your message with a unique encoding scheme for you.

Power control works both ways. The network tells the device to power up or down based on how loud it is and the network will power up to the level required to speak to the particular user. That is why signal bars do not mean signal strength as much as they mean the quality of the signal. If you have a low signal but there is no one else near the site or there is little noise, then the through put will be good and the call will be good. You may also be standing directly in-front of a cell site
and have poor signal quality if the site is full or there is a phone miss behaving on the network (Jamming the site). This is why you can be standing perfectly still and the signal level changes over time, as users attach to the site and detach, the quality can change dramatically.

Steve Jobs separately emailed one user with a tersely worded intent to fix unrelated problems in the iPhone's higher level software that concern instability and crashing in third party apps, writing, "This is a known iPhone bug that is being fixed in the next software update in September."[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure why this quote keeps being "labeled" as "tersely worded"? It sounds pretty benign to me, and "just the facts". I suppose it's all in how you "read" into it . . . <smile>.

Jon

Huh? I'm still lost....

yep, cause he wasn't all "I"m SOOOOO sorry this happened to you. here let me refund the cost of your iphone and pay your cell bill for the next year to make it up to you" they play it like he was curt and basically a jerk.

and chances are that that 'terse' message was a form one that went out to dozens or even hundreds of folks that sent in emails but only one person stepped up and publicly said he got a message back. the rest were just happy to have something to show apple is trying

okay I'm not exactly sure I get this or the stuff in the original article.

but what I think is being said, and correctly if I'm wrong, is that cell phones are basically like any network in the sense that

1. too many folks trying to tap a server can cause bog ups and slow downs as the server tries to handle all the requests

2. the slowest end dictates speed. so like my laptop's wifi is n but the router is only g so the router sets the pace. by the same token, if you have a tower where some folks have the new better software and some don't the presence of the old software has made the tower slow down and might not speed up to talk to the new software folks at their full speed. depending perhaps on how many slows are present.

is that more or less correct.

According to the OAD terse can mean sparing in the use of words, but it usually connotes something that is both concise and polished. The usage of terse to also imply a pejorative insult seems to be a more modern adoption.

1. Pretty much correct, only this would be at any given cell site in the area at any given time.

2. Not sure about HSDPA but in 1xEV, there are mechanisms and thresholds. If the user is demanding too much attention or slowing things down too much or not listening to what the network is telling them, the network can shut them out and serve the good users.

I am thinking that if there is a bug in the power control, it may cause the phone to speak to the tower but the tower may never hear the phone. If the phone try's several times and the tower doesn't respond, it may drop back to 2G and try again. This may be the cause of people seeing 2G when they are in a 3G network area. There also must be some timing I would think as if the phone sniffed 3G and started trying to hammer the network to connect, the battery life would be horrid and the device would heat up.

Please note that this is pure speculation and not to be taken as concrete.... It is just an example of what could happen if the network and the device was not talking well together.

Interesting, eventhough I think FW 2.0.2 broke 3G fuctionality in my case. The 3G connection is just not responding... EDGE and WIFI work fine.

I had the same problem and had to do a restore to get 3g to come back

So 2.0 was actually causing network problems... making the network go slower and less stable for all phones.

That explains why for the first 2 weeks my Nokia on Vodafone 3G kept showing it had switched to 2G mode. That does happen frequently enough, but it was much more often at that time.

ps.
The iPhone still gets really warm when using 3G data for 10 minutes. Anyone else notice this?

So was 2.0.2 "The reception issue" fix? Are there going to be subsequent fixes in 2.1?

My phone really behaves no better than before, varying from 5 bars to 1 just by picking the phone up, dropping calls when I lose 3G, only keeping 3G when VERY close to the tower.

My phone still behaves very differently in comparison to other AT&T 3G phones....

I really hope that 2.1 addresses this, or I'm thinking they're trying to cover up a hardware issue that they are not going to fix.

2.02 fixed precisely nothing for me. 3G just as unusable as before.

Why does the word placebo jump to mind?

I met a Nokia techie at a client's office yesterday (we design lots of mobile apps), and at the end of the meeting, when he berated me for owning an iPhone, he said that everyone at Nokia is laughing about this. They said that Apple would struggle to get the phone hardware right way back - turns out they were right. He said that two obscure lines of code in the firmware of one of their chipsets when they launched the N series devices led to an almost 50% increase in battery life when they altered them. But finding this took them 6 months - and they knew what they were looking for.

Apple has a lot to learn here, and a lot to do to get this phone right. I hope there are lots of people there working really hard to bring the phone up to an acceptable standard. Right now, it's like using a 1st gen 3g phone from years ago.

Frankly, I don't give a flying fu** who's fault it is anymore. All I know is I'm paying an extra $10 for 3G service and I'm not getting it. If I wanted a phone that dropped down to EDGE 90% of the time then I would have stuck with my original iPhone.

All I know is there's going to be a lawsuit. There are tens of thousand of people having the same problem as me and are getting screwed out of an extra $10 a month for the same EDGE service.

Have you called AT&T regarding this issue? It's quite possible they will give you a credit for the data cost difference since it's quite feasible that the reason you changed phones was for 3G speeds.

Note: The $30/month fee for unlimited data isn't just for the 3G iPhone. It's for all AT&T phones, included the original EDGE iPhone.

The dropped call situation was bad before 2.0.2 now I have an almost unusable phone. Just about every call gets dropped no matter where I am.

This must be fixed

he didn't say the 30 was he said the ten was. The other 20 is for unlimited data. He and all of us deserve 10 bucks a month off our bills until this is resolved and an additional 20 bucks off our bill per month or a rebate from apple for making us leave the 1st gen phone for a new phone that doesn't work. I have only used 3g twice in 6 weeks... That sucks I have been stuck on edge and I live in the greater LA

Someone tell me that 3G has been successfully deployed SOMEWHERE. I can't believe these issues are completely new.

You missed the point. My note clearly mentions that if you take an original EDGE iPhone to AT&T to get signed up you will be paying $30/month for unlimited data. In other words, the new rates are not just for the iPhone 3G but for any new iPhone account, regardless of its generation.

As for your conclusion that that $20 is for unlimited data and $10 is for 3G, well, that makes no sense. AT&T has merely changed their rate plans. Last year it was around $45 for unlimited data on all cellphones, sans the iPhone, which was $20/month. Now they are all $30/month.

Also, as previously stated, "It's quite possible they will give you a credit for the data cost difference since it's quite feasible that the reason you changed phones was for 3G speeds." That means he might be able to get AT&T to credit him $10 per month for the months that he isn't getting 3G.

I live in South Orange Co, Cali......a major metropolitan area to say the least and hardly the boonies yet I have never ever had an many dropped calls as I now do with my 3G iPhone. If I'm on the call and it switches to EDGE it invariably drops the call with out exception. I don't think this is how it's supposed to be. You think that ATT would pretty much have the LA/Orange Co. basin pretty much blanked with coverage...sadly this is not even close to reality. \

Here in the Phoenix area I have been nearly problem free for 3G coverage and signal. I've only had maybe two or three dropped calls since July 12...but that would be the case for any carrier.

Prior to this I had Verizon. When I was at work I used to drop 99% of the calls when inside, i.e., all the time. I eventually would just tell people I would call them back, walk outside, and re-dial. Now with AT&T/iPhone, I regularly show full coverage, and have yet to drop a single call, inside or out.
The only "major" problem I had was once when I was at a Dbacks game. It would show that I had 3G, but then eventually time out and say the "network could not be reached", and then it would switch to EDGE. But, if what Core2 says is accurate, this could easily happen if there is only one tower within range of the stadium. If thousands upon thousands of people are trying to call/text/use the internet, I imagine one tower would easily be over-loaded.

I've also been down to Tucson a couple of times and coverage seems pretty good down there too. However, AT&T claims that in between Phoenix and Tucson is all 3G, but I definitely did not have 3G for much of the 100 mile drive.

Apparently I'm one of the lucky ones. Other than some lag issues and the occasional Safari crash, I have been very satisfied with AT&T and the iPhone here in Phoenix.

You are saying Nokia was laughing at Apple while admitting themselves they went through similar problems. That's pretty disengenuous.


Well this literally is a 1st gen 3G phone from Apple.

I agree. AT&T could earn a little good will if it did not charge for 3G during the time it isn't working so well. Similar to what Apple is doing for mobile me.

Works great here

I believe your statement is incorrect. If you take a 1st Gen iPhone to AT&T to activate they are still only charging $20/Mo for the unlimited data plan. $30/Mo data plan only applies to 3G iPhones (and other branded 3G devices). So, yeah, people should be getting a $10 per month credit if they are receiving little or no 3G service.

UMTS great for me, too.


Mea culpa. I just called 2 AT&T stores. Both said that the old iPhone is still $20/month and get the 200 SMS messages. This is different news that I was told a month ago when I picked up my first iPhone 3G, but then it was all new to the CSRs at the time.

I do agree that a $10 discount for all iPhone for each month that the issue has been occuring would go a long way to satisfy customers in the long run. Expecially with a reported 50% or more being new to AT&T.

I too suffer from little or no 3G I also have found the new iPhone to be FAR less stable than the first-gen iPhone.

With that said, I found this article to be very interesting:

http://www.intomobile.com/2008/08/27...-with-att.html

Seems it's AT&T's network and not the iPhone...shock shock.

The question is...why didn't Apple and AT&T delay the launch of the 3G iPhone as RIM and AT&T are doing? This 3G iPhone is turning out to be a very strong negative on both AT&T and Apple...

Not trying to be that guy but can we proofread these a little more?

"Roughly Drafted is now reporting additional details from"

"too much downlink power than the base station"

For some reason you are applying a bad connotation to the word 'terse.'

Terse doesn't mean what you think it means.

THE RIGHT WORD
If you don't like to mince words, you'll make every effort to be concise in both your writing and speaking, which means to remove all superfluous details (: a concise summary of everything that happened). Succinct is very close in meaning to concise, although it emphasizes compression and compactness in addition to brevity ( | succinct instructions for what to do in an emergency). If you're laconic, you are brief to the point of being curt, brusque, or even uncommunicative ( | his laconic reply left many questions unanswered). Terse can also mean clipped or abrupt ( | a terse command), but it usually connotes something that is both concise and polished ( | a terse style of writing that was much admired). A pithy statement is not only succinct but full of substance and meaning ( | a pithy argument that no one could counter).

The Mac has a most excellent dictionary built in. Just hit control-command d and, holding control-command, wave your cursor over the page... MAGIC!

My experience exactly, and I was wondering if I was the only one who had an iPhone 3G and didn't have any problems. My 3G hasn't dropped a single call since I bought it near launch, I get very reliable 3G service everywhere I go and I've never had any signal related problems.

I haven't had any real problems either. Home coverage in Virginia is great. The coverage in San Francisco when I visited last week was great too.

The only real problem is inside the building at work -- it's pretty iffy -- but outside the building is pretty good. That was true for my previous carrier (T-mobile) as well, so I don't think I can attribute that to the iPhone.

I had one dropped call in the last 2 months.

......the iPHONE will NEVER be fixed. It also explains why a minority of phones NEVER have any dropped calls (although they will not escape the inevitable cracks ASWELL, just like the exact same problem with the iMAC anyone who still has a current 3G in one piece by next year will be extremely LUCKY).

THe FIX for the connection problems to be released in Semptember was actually rushed out to solve the problem ie. 2.0.2 The incredible irony is that while the fix was in theory designed to help the problem the NIGHTMARE reality that it made the problem EVEN WORSE for a majority of updaters. While in theory it is still possible for the fix to do what it was originaly INTENDED to do, it would need the majority of ALL iPHONE owners to UPDATE to 2.0.2 which of course in practice is impossible too many IPHONE owners will be too computer illiterate to update a phone even if they are told to. The older fimwares are causing the extreme issues (including EVEN more rediculously short battery life) for a majority of phones with the new 2.0.2 (that they interact with on a local transmitter network - so the 2.0.2 that works will be lucky not to be sharing with any other iPHONES OR one(s) with the older firmware).When owners saw what 2.02 was killing off people's phones they avoided it at all costs and will be cautious in the future of upgrading firmware. There's no legal enforcement to update, if they tried to shut down phones that haven't updated there would been a MASSIVE RIGHTS outcry finishing off Apple/ATT as serious business concerns forever.

The RESULT being the majority of 3G iPHONE owners will FOR its ENTIRE LIFE have a DEVICE that doesn't have 3G, isn't a working PHONE , is practically NOT mobile due to non-existent battery life or any usable internet connection as its just too slow and in a few months will have cracks in it like The GRAND CANYON - if its lucky enough to be in one piece at all. It may not have been a hardware issue after all, a faulty chip but ironically the resulting fcuk-up has become as permanent a problem as a hardware issue would have been if NOT more so - how difficult/expensive/legal nightmare would it be to force everyone to return their phone EVEN those that have had no problems as opposed to just a recall?? NO CHANCE! They have to start from scratch all new phone new hardware set up, new design of firmware which is fine as long as Apple want to make themselves go bust before they even have chance for their mkt share to COLLAPSE.

But of course its STILL a superior FUN to use product and they STILL LOVE IT (and if that isn't an example of fanatascism to TERRORIST levels i don't know what is).



No its you thats "pretty disengenuous". Nokia have aquired YEARS of experience and knowledge with( exclusively on) mobile technology ( from work, spending money on R +D etc and overall making successful business decissions to remain the top of their field/successful) . cf Apple have no history of mobile phone making, they started only 2 years ago with a technologically backward phone of poor call quality + battery life. A year later they take an evolutinary leap of years forward in mobile technology by allegedly releasing an EFFICIENT 3G phone (ROTFLMAO) only 1 year later that in reality included endless dropped calls,poor data transfer and a battery that holds the record for shortest "life" (and beaten all competition by several orders of magnitude) to make its one of the GREATEST disasters apple has ever seen. Its clear they haven't a clue and merely try to mimic what Professional mobile phone makers do and as usual put in in a pretty flashing box and hyperbole and properganda it to death as per every product release. Integrity? Reliability? Practical use? Who needs those to sell to the braindead, shallow, clueless about technology STYLE over SUBSTANCE target market?

The point is NOKIA SOLVED the PROBLEMS BEFORE they sensibley with INTEGRITY released the product to the public UNLIKE GREED above everything and anything (including customer suffering) Apple who rush released their 3G product as a BROKEN Alpha test (much worse than a Beta test) model to the public arrogantly assuming they could cut the corners and save $$$$$$$ and make $$$$$ more quickly while the hype from the first Phone was still around + would help carry the second $$$$$$ ( they guessed their customers wouldn't even notice if something technical worked or not as long as its looks nice and it can more importantly STILL been shown off to equally gullable shallow friends). Not only is that utterly STUPID biz decission by Apple LMAO funny they also are trying to compete with companies that are MOBILE TECHNOLOGY GIANTS in superiority over clueless apple yet they have the stupidity/blind greed/ARROGANCE to try to compete with someone like that because they can sell average (but now cheap components + bad design unlike old apple) computers at a MASSIVELLY inflated price to people who don't use computers. They thought they could get away with filling a mobile with any old s.hit and their customer base would buy it - unfortunately all their customer base had used real mobile phones before and even they were not amused at the non-functioning device it became(except the insanity bois, of course, Jobs could give them a bullet thru the head/Mac and they'd still be pleased)


For more details on this see following Apple support forum thread;

http://discussions.apple.com/thread....6266&tstart=45


Its OVER for the iPHONE and Apple will now pay for their EXCESSIVE HEARTLESS GREED...... i can here Apple fanbois tightening the noose around their neck as we speak

There is a fundamental problem with the IPhone 3G, I think this much has been established. But, no one on this forum knows for sure what it is or what the extent of it is, nor does anyone know how much the network may be at fault either. Below is some comments on the subject, that people may want to roll around some.

As I stated in the beginning of my post I do think there is a fundamental problem with the IPhone 3G. There is no question in my mind about that. I have a ATT Tilt and like others have done with other phones I have tested it against the IPhone 3G, one in each hand, and found the Tilt to be consistently faster. I got on average 1.45Mbs on the Tilt and 800Kbs on the IPhone 3G on the ATT 3G network.

If you think about it the addition of the hundreds of thousands of IPhone 3Gs onto the ATT network here in the US would be a significant and sudden load on the network. It certainly is possible that the IPhone 3G is asking for too much power, as has been reported, but it is also possible that they are asking for more power but still within the 3G specification and the ATT network just doesn't have the infrastructure to handle it. In either case, the IPhone 3G doesn't work properly whereas other phones do. No one really knows for sure why.

The 2.0.2 update reportedly fixes the problem by reducing the power the IPhone 3G asks for from the ATT tower, and this is suppose to fix the problem IF everybody updates.

The problem with 2.0.2 is that we do not know if the IPhone 3G truly is asking for more power than it should or if it is just asking for more power but is still within the spec and the ATT network (and other networks) just cannot handle it. From tests I have read and surveys that have been taken, the results show that on the networks that are more mature and have more capacity the IPhone 3Gs works much better than on the newer ones that do not have the capacity, such as the ATT network in certain locations.

From what I have researched, it appears that there is both a problem with the IPhone 3G and there is a problem with the capacity of the networks. The problem with the phone is related to the firmware and how it attempts to switch between Edge and 3G, and possibly with how and/or how much power it asks for.

I can tell you that if the IPhone 3G is asking for more power but is still within the specification, and needs that much power to connect at true 3G speeds, and 2.0.2 causes it to ask for less power then it stands to reason that means the performance of the IPhone 3G will suffer as a result (although the reliability may be improved). This "fix" would simply be a patch to allow them to work on the reduced capacity of the network. If the IPhone 3G is truly asking for too much power (is outside of the spec) and can operate at 3G speeds with less power, as has been reported, then 2.0.2 would be the right fix. The problem again is, nobody but Apple and ATT really knows which it is, and nobody but them will probably ever know for sure.

Oh, and to answer you question - Money.

The Omega