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Once the initial defensiveness re: Palin dies down... - Page 2

post #41 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

"just choosing any woman..."

Palin brought the conservatism that McCain lacks in a huge way.


She has a lifetime membership with the NRA.

Of the 4 people in the race, she's the only one with any gubernatorial/executive experience.

Only 600,000 people in Alaska?

Size, as I'm sure she'll tell you, doesn't matter.

She was successful in Alaska and Threw The Rascals Out.

I'm intrigued and want to learn more.

She also looks like Mary McDonnell (President Laura Roslin of the 12 Colonies of Man), so she'll get the Battlestar Galactica vote. So say they all.

There are people who will vote for her on that basis alone. Sadly, you know that I'm right.




V/R,
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post #42 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by mydo View Post

My google search is not special. My google search tells me that the trouper that Palin tried to fire tazed a 10 year old, which is exactly what I said. Flash forward to the VP debates: Bernard Shaw, "Governor Palin did you abuse your power when you tried to have that trouper removed because of personal reasons?" Paliin, "No I had that trouper removed because he used a government issued tazer gun on a 10 year old". Who's going to win that one?

It's not a matter of "who wins" in some glib-off in a debate. She's being investigated, there's appears to be pretty compelling evidence that she lied about pressuring the trooper's boss to fire him, and she had clear personal motivation to do so. Plus, the guy she selected to replace the guy she fired turned out to be a sexual harasser. I can't see where any of this is much of an upside, and "but the trooper she wanted fired tazed a kid in addition to divorcing her sister which is why she fired his supervisor and lied about it and hired a sexual harasser instead" doesn't have much of a ring to it, does it?

Quote:
I expect members here that want to discuss Palin and the trouper to know the basics. Think about what you wrote though. You think voters should get their information about Palin from McCain? Are you insane? If someone is going to vote for someone I think at a minimum they should do 8 to 16 hour worth of their own research.

My point being that one might have expected McCain to nominate someone that didn't leave us all scratching our heads and scrambling for Google just to get any sense at all of who the hell the nominee is.

I think 8 to 16 hours grossly overstates the necessary time investment, however: given the brevity of the woman's time on the public stage, I would think that 20 minutes with a smoke break would turn up all that is to be known, at least at the level of Google. If I were the McCain camp, I would be very uneasy about whether or not my "not around long enough to have left evidence of anything too heinous" gambit was going to work out.

Quote:
As always I'm an Obama voter and vote Democrat. I'm just not Hopenotized like the rest. I see elections as strategic and have an ability to put myself on the other side of the isle. When people cry "scandal" I look to see how the other side will deflect it.

I don't think you have to be "hopenotized" (that's a hideous neologism, by the way, you should be savagely beaten for using it), to recognize that nominating a complete unknown currently under investigation for abuse of power carries some downside. Of course the right will have "answers" to such concerns, that's a given. That doesn't make them effective or persuasive answers.

Quote:
Read this thread to see the "slam dunk" attitude.

Don't really want to read the whole thing, but at a scan, really not seeing it. I see a lot of "weak choice, doesn't help" though.
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post #43 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by mydo View Post

That trooper used a tazer on a 10 year old. Not exactly your ideal victim. If this is the best scandal we can come up with then it aint looking good.

The article talks about Wooten, who as in a custody battle with Palin's sister. There is nothing about a taser.

and about Monegan, who was fired.

again, nothing about a taser.

Could we have that linky, please?

 

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post #44 of 836
Interesting. Here's a new Obama ad.

It looks like, for the time being, at least, they're just going to sort of ignore Palin as irrelevant and continue to run against McCain.

I think that's fairly smart. Palin's negatives will play out in the side-channels, no need for the Obama campaign to go straight at her. And, in point of fact, outside of narrow political considerations, she is irrelevant.
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post #45 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

We'll see what Gustav and St. Paul bring, but Palin is currently rallying the GOP base in a big big big way.

Fairly obvious from reading your posts.

And the part about this election being Obama's to lose is ludicrous. The guy is black, with a "funny" name. Nice try.
post #46 of 836
Is there something odd about a candidate who is anti-abortion yet in favor of gun ownership and enjoys killing animals?

How do the Republicans balance these fairly inherently polar opposites?

 

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post #47 of 836
I think you mean pro-life... but yeah, I know what you mean. It's weird.

post #48 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Unfortunately the way I see it is that she's a hood ornament! Something to parade around to voters before the election. One wonders what she'd do if McSame wins after the election. The same relationship doesn't exist with Obama/Biden. I really don't think with Biden's experience he'd be ok with that.

As I've said before if I was a woman who cared about women's rights I'd be very offended by this dog and pony show.

True enough... This was McCain's attempt to counter Biden's heft with Palin's weightlessness.

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post #49 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

The article talks about Wooten, who as in a custody battle with Palin's sister. There is nothing about a taser.

and about Monegan, who was fired.

again, nothing about a taser.

Could we have that linky, please?

Okay so this is how google works. You type "keywords" into a "search engine" and it searches the web for the information you want. For example I used the keywords Sarah Palin trouper and the very first article that comes up is here.

Quote:
On the day that the governor's younger sister filed for divorce -- April 11, 2005 -- Palin's father, Chuck Heath, a retired teacher then in his late 60s, called state police to file a complaint about Wooten. He handed the phone to his daughter Molly, who told state police that her husband had threatened her father's life and had drunk beer while driving his police vehicle home. Later, she told police that Wooten had shot a "cow moose" without a license and Tasered his 10-year-old stepson.

Wow that's interesting but that article is allegations only. Let's try to use the "search engine" again. This time I'll use Wooten taser and find this.

Quote:
An investigation sustained the allegations regarding the moose hunt and the Taser, and later also sustained the drinking charge after at first finding it unsupported. Documents say Wooten was reprimanded and suspended.

So you see when I heard about the scandal I said to myself, "I'm going to read up on this so I know what this is all about". So I used the internet for more than just DailyKos and HuffPo to gather information.
post #50 of 836
Thread Starter 
Why did Palin lie about pressuring the guy to fire her ex-brother-in-law?
Why are the e-mails about it suddenly missing in action?

We don't know much about this woman, and the little we know isn't all that impressive.

From the WaPo article:
Quote:
"Wooten was not a model trooper," Monegan said. "On the other hand, the allegations pre-date her election. So, there is some issue about whether it was truly motivated by public safety concerns, or it was vindictiveness."

mydo, I don't think that article is as supportive of your position as you think it is.
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post #51 of 836
No I think when she's pressed about this guy she can pull the whole "HE TASED A 10 YEAR OLD" out of her pocket follow by "As governor I'm responsible for the safety and well being of the state's children and I take that seriously".

They already wrote the response and she already committed it to memory.
post #52 of 836
Then she goes of to kill a few moose.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews

 

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post #53 of 836
Thread Starter 
The narrative of a vindictive woman abusing her power by firing an innocent man in an attempt to get her sister's ex fired isn't a good one, mydo, no matter how she tries to spin it.

The trooper may have deserved it, but it's ridiculous to gloss over the fact that the man Palin fired did absolutely nothing wrong.
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post #54 of 836
Maybe but I don't think that will play with Hockey Mom's and Jill Six Pack.

We'll see video of her on a snowmobile with a hunting rifle or some shit like that.

I think the "ignore her" route is the best way to go.
post #55 of 836
When Palin saw (through a window) her brother-in-law make a threat while wearing his gun, why did she go to a meeting without calling the police?

Hmmm....


Sounds like very good VP material.

 

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post #56 of 836
Thread Starter 
Hell hath no fury and all that jazz.
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post #57 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by mydo View Post

I think the "ignore her" route is the best way to go.

Indeed.

I have to admit that the more I think about this, the more bizarre it seems. McCain, who has been pounding on Obama's lack of experience, has chosen someone even more inexperienced than him to be next in line for the office in an admin that would boast a 72 year-old man as President. If he's going after disaffected HRC voters, and he doesn't seem to care about experience, why not just go an pick Ann Coulter or Laura Ingrahm?

Nevermind the question of what she doesn't bring to the table (her stunning resume as a hockey mom, mayor of a small town, and governor of a state with less than 700,000 people notwithstanding) the visual of her there next to a man old enough to be her father can only serve to amplify McCain's OMG-HE'S-REALLY-RATHER-OLD-ISN'T-HE-ness....

oh holy shit.

I just got it. Palin completes the GOP daddy complex tableau.

I will say that it's going to be very interesting watching Obama roll out HRC to explain why people shouldn't vote for THAT woman....

But yeah. Ignore her. She's less qualified than Dan Quayle was, she's married to the oil industry (in the same way that McCain has a "cabin," and she's such a maverick that she sold a jet on ebay, recommended drilling in ANWAR, is anti-abortion, and loves shootin' stuff.
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post #58 of 836
If McCain makes jokes about cigarettes and Iranians, how might Palin joke?

Horrible to consider.

 

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post #59 of 836
I don't know. I'm watching you tube videos of her. I think I get why McCain would pick her.


Here she is on TrooperGateII

She's good at staying on message. Plus she can go into Michigan, Ohio and West By God Virginia as "working class republican". I think Florida will like her.

Why couldn't McCain pick Fuckabee and make it easy?


I'm over stating it. I think the VP is unimportant. Bush won with Quale, Clinton won with Gore.
post #60 of 836
Early polls (can't be bothered to find the links right now, sorry) suggest she's pretty much a wash. Some up, some down, mostly don't care.

What's she supposed to do, show up in swing states and say "Hey, ya'll, I'm pretty average, much like you. What does the Vice President do, again? Nah, I'm just kiddin', I'll probably be against big gummit and for guns and shit. Well, see you in January!"

Is she some kind of gifted orator? Does she have a compelling vision of conservative governance? Is she going to draw on her years of outspoken advocacy? Or, as has been suggested, is she entirely ornamental, with nothing to do but repeat her lines and try to avoid being questioned too closely on the issues of the day?

Is the base really so lame that all it takes someone who is pro-life, pro-gun and pro-God to get them fired up? Does "the base" actually not care about the economy, the war, social security, energy or anything at all outside of seeing themselves reflected in their candidate?

If that's the case, why didn't he pick a Walmart manager from the midwest? I'm sure a woman or two have busted through to upper-level management. I mean that sincerely: since experience means nothing, why not just pluck a citizen from the crowd with the requisite ideology? That would sure put the heat on those fancy pants Democrats, wouldn't it? How much more mavericky could you get?
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post #61 of 836
Problem is, I don't understand why anyone would consider McCain in the first place.

I am still waiting for a thread on reason to vote McCain, but alas, one never appears.

 

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post #62 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by mydo View Post


She's good at staying on message.

That would be a real advantage if the McCain campaign had a coherent message.
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post #63 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

Problem is, I don't understand why anyone would consider McCain.

I am still waiting for a thread on reason to vote McCain, but alas, one never appears.

For that matter, I'm not really seeing much in the way of threads explaining exactly what it is that Obama would do, as President, that would be so horrifying.

We are instructed to hate him because he's arrogant, a celebrity, has known people we are advised are bad, secretly hates America, is a cipher, has no plan.

The fulminating on the right is amazingly content free, even by recent standards. When all anyone wants to talk about is character, and not even the upstanding character of their guy at that, but just the suspect character of the other guy, you really have to wonder just how dry the Bush years have left the ideological tank.

Is the Republican Party actually for anything, at all, any more? Or has it become fully a mechanism for spreading fear, resentment and anger? Maybe giving Rove the rolodex wasn't that great an idea, after all.
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post #64 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

For that matter, I'm not really seeing much in the way of threads explaining exactly what it is that Obama would do, as President, that would be so horrifying.

As Vinea rightly pointed out, he will lower taxes for 95% of Americans and raise taxes on himself and people like him. That's horrible. Evil. It must be stopped.
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post #65 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter View Post

As Vinea rightly pointed out, he will lower taxes for 95% of Americans and raise taxes on himself and people like him. That's horrible. Evil. It must be stopped.

That, and set a timetable for getting out of Iraq, a scheme so harebrained it's been endorsed by that notorious hippy appeaser, George Bush.

There's that whole "energy independence" thing, which makes me physically ill. Doesn't he know that America was founded on energy dependence?

Maybe it's the specter of being obliged to listen to a president who can form coherent sentences. Perhaps the right has grown comfortable with baby talk, and fear the loss of their blanky.
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post #66 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

That, and set a timetable for getting out of Iraq, a scheme so harebrained it's been endorsed by that notorious hippy appeaser, George Bush.

Yeah, but it's not honorable. Whatever that means.

Quote:
Maybe it's the specter of being obliged to listen to a president who can form coherent sentences. Perhaps the right has grown comfortable with baby talk, and fear the loss of their blanky.

Their blanky of FEAR!!!!
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post #67 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter View Post

Yeah, but it's not honorable. Whatever that means.

Reminds of an old National Lampoon bit I remember seeing-- Nixon selling his exit strategy from Viet Nam like a cold remedy: "PeacePlan, now with Honor. It gets the reds out."

It's actually eerie, how mindlessly the Viet Nam stuff is being recycled. I look forward to hearing about how the liberals lost Iraq, in 20 years.

Quote:
Their blanky of FEAR!!!!

Just literally true. "Shit, if Americans aren't sufficiently focused on OMG!! commies/drug addicts/gays/terrorists/Mexicans we're totally fucked, because, brother, beyond that, we got nothing whatsoever."
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post #68 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter View Post

That would be a real advantage if the McCain campaign had a coherent message.

But he does!


Obama isn't ready. Obama doesn't have enough experience. Obama this. Obama that. I have change in my pocket; I used it to buy house number 32. Blah blah blah, ad neasueum.

 

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post #69 of 836
Palin supports hunting from airplanes, which violates federal law.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...BARB12KSHM.DTL

 

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post #70 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

Palin supports hunting from airplanes, which violates federal law.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...BARB12KSHM.DTL

To be more clear she's for changing the law. Which would not violate federal law.
post #71 of 836
Are we reading the same article? Alaska now allows it; a rep tried to change the Alaskan law which permits it (and thus in his opinion violates US law) and Palin told him to "butt out" (she's a hockey mom, so I can see her using the phrase; no offense to hockey, though, as I used to play goal keeper).

---

She sued to try to stop the feds from listing polar bears as endangered because... drum roll... it would hurt the oil companies.

Bush must love her to death.


---

She luvs animals so much she has adorned her office with a bearskin rug:

http://www.financialpost.com/most_po...html?id=756796
(at the bottom)

Yeah, she wants a pipeline built, too.

 

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post #72 of 836
I love the occasional free day I get:

Before she was chosen:

http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/po...ts_iceber.html


The flip-flop:

Her staff didn't pressure the guy... The she says they did, 24 times, but she didn't know about it.

http://www.adn.com/monegan/story/492964.html
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/48172.html

The wikipedia article about her is pretty interesting, too, but poorly written. Somebody here participate on wikipedia? You might want to clean it up.

 

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post #73 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

Are we reading the same article? Alaska now allows it; a rep tried to change the Alaskan law which permits it (and thus in his opinion violates US law) and Palin told him to "butt out" (she's a hockey mom, so I can see her using the phrase; no offense to hockey, though, as I used to play goal keeper).

---

She sued to try to stop the feds from listing polar bears as endangered because... drum roll... it would hurt the oil companies.

Bush must love her to death.


---

She luvs animals so much she has adorned her office with a bearskin rug:

http://www.financialpost.com/most_po...html?id=756796
(at the bottom)

Yeah, she wants a pipeline built, too.

I didn't read anything there to indicate that she wanted people to violate federal law.


I'm not against pipelines. It may be safer to pipe oil and gas than ship it.
post #74 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

Are we reading the same article? Alaska now allows it; a rep tried to change the Alaskan law which permits it (and thus in his opinion violates US law) and Palin told him to "butt out" (she's a hockey mom, so I can see her using the phrase; no offense to hockey, though, as I used to play goal keeper).

---

She sued to try to stop the feds from listing polar bears as endangered because... drum roll... it would hurt the oil companies.

Bush must love her to death.


---

She luvs animals so much she has adorned her office with a bearskin rug:

http://www.financialpost.com/most_po...html?id=756796
(at the bottom)

Yeah, she wants a pipeline built, too.

It sounds pretty bad. Just what you'd expect from a McSame pick.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #75 of 836
Thread Starter 
Quote:
It sounds pretty bad. Just what you'd expect from a McSame pick.

It's an embarrassment.

This is Palin in 1988.

Obama was coming off his first stint of community organizing on the southside of Chicago and entering Harvard Law in 1988.

McCain was in his first year as a US Senator and co-authoring the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act.

Biden was in his first year as the chair of the Senate Judiciary Committee as a 3rd term US Senator.
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post #76 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by groverat View Post

It's an embarrassment.

This is Palin in 1988.

Obama was coming off his first stint of community organizing on the southside of Chicago and entering Harvard Law in 1988.

McCain was in his first year as a US Senator and co-authoring the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act.

Biden was in his first year as the chair of the Senate Judiciary Committee as a 3rd term US Senator.


A sportscaster? In his best Ricky Ricardo imitation : " Aye! " ( slaps forehead! ).

But you know we'll probably never be behind on the scores again!
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post #77 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by mydo View Post

I didn't read anything there to indicate that she wanted people to violate federal law.


I'm not against pipelines. It may be safer to pipe oil and gas than ship it.

My impression is that they already are violating fed law, and she wants to keep it that way.

Alaska allows the shooting of animals from planes.
Miller says that violates federal law.
Palin told him the stuff it; that is, she wants a continuation of the shooting, and thus a continuation of the violation.

She doesn't want to break the law; Alaska already is.

She also pointed out that things were different in Alaska; she wants special rules to apply.


---
Pipelines are possibly safer than ships, but they have their risks as well.

It crosses a major fault line or two or three (on sliders).
6000 barrels leaked when a gunman shot the pipeline.
poor maagement can lead to disaster:
http://dwb.adn.com/front/picture_ins...-7948041c.html

Probably lots of other things as well.

 

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Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #78 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

My impression is that they already are violating fed law, and she wants to keep it that way.

Alaska allows the shooting of animals from planes.
Miller says that violates federal law.
Palin told him the stuff it; that is, she wants a continuation of the shooting, and thus a continuation of the violation.

She doesn't want to break the law; Alaska already is.

She also pointed out that things were different in Alaska; she wants special rules to apply.


Gee! Just think how those special rules could apply everywhere!

Oh! They already do! I forgot about Bush for a moment!
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #79 of 836
Wired's take on some things like polar bears:


http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/200...ccain-pic.html

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply
post #80 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Gee! Just think how those special rules could apply everywhere!

Oh! They already do! I forgot about Bush for a moment!

Nah, he just writes new ones to make sure his rear is covered.

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply
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