or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Other Discussion › AppleOutsider › PoliticalOutsider › Once the initial defensiveness re: Palin dies down...
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Once the initial defensiveness re: Palin dies down... - Page 3

post #81 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by mydo View Post

So go find your own "linky".

Posting supportive articles when making claims is an intelligent thing to do. It helps make your point and makes you look like someone who forms their opinion by collecting information.

You have to read the bible to become a christian or are you just taking everybody's word for it?
post #82 of 836
I think the question shouldn't be IS she a political pick. Jub is right, to a great extent VP picks always are.

The question is whether she is a GOOD political pick. I'm still pondering why Palin over Hutchison. Hutchinson has that prior allegation of misconduct but that's a decade in the past and not an active thing.

Well, okay, she's anti-abortion but heck, if you're trying to get independents and democrats to switch that's not a huge negative. Of course, she's older and at 65 not likely to be set up to run on 2012 or 2016.

In that respect Palin is better than Biden and Hutchison. At 44, whether McCain wins or loses, she can contemplate a 2016 run at 52*.

But also, why not Snowe? Too moderate and too old?

Meh...that Palin pick strikes me more of grooming than a real uptick for McCain. She's TOO conservative to appeal to anyone but female conservative voters. I guess they'll show up now which will be helpful but I dunno how much.

I wish I'd have put money on both Palin and Hutchinson. The payouts were very favorable had either been picked.


* assuming she survives the trial by fire of this election untarnished.
post #83 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

Nah, he just writes new ones to make sure his rear is covered.


Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
post #84 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

As opposed to the six term liberal lion who is the very antithesis of "change" that he did pick?

That's "change" only on a superficial level.

Biden has been in Washington for a very long time, but the policies he supports represent a change from the status quo.
post #85 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawnJ View Post

Biden has been in Washington for a very long time, but the policies he supports represent a change from the status quo.

Too bad that's too long for a bumper sticker.
post #86 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamac View Post

Posting supportive articles when making claims is an intelligent thing to do. It helps make your point and makes you look like someone who forms their opinion by collecting information.

You have to read the bible to become a christian or are you just taking everybody's word for it?



Right you are. What's even more inteligent is knowing the basic facts about something when commenting on a topic. That way you are not in a position of [redacted] when people refer facts that are in the public record.
post #87 of 836
Josh Marshall has a good rundown of the Wooten matter here.

Quote:
We rely on elected officials not to use the power of their office to pursue personal agendas or vendettas. It's called an abuse of power. There is ample evidence that Palin used her power as governor to get her ex-brother-in-law fired. When his boss refused to fire him, she fired his boss. She first denied Monegan's claims of pressure to fire Wooten and then had to amend her story when evidence proved otherwise. The available evidence now suggests that she 1) tried to have an ex-relative fired from his job for personal reasons, something that was clearly inappropriate, and perhaps illegal, though possibly understandable in human terms, 2) fired a state official for not himself acting inappropriately by firing the relative, 3) lied to the public about what happened and 4) continues to lie about what happened.

From everything I've read this is a fair summation of where things stand. Focusing on how a bad a guy Wooten is or was doesn't really help her case-- after all, he's still on the job, and it's his boss that got canned. And it's his boss who is saying he has the emails that flatly contradict what Palin's been saying.

Palin lied and is lying about trying to get a state official fired for personal reasons. That is going to be a problem for the McCain campaign.

Maybe the right can claim that this is an example of small town vindictiveness, and claim it's elitist to care.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
post #88 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Josh Marshall has a good rundown of the Wooten matter

Hillary has survived much worse scandals (whitewater, etc). I'm still a big fan of Palin - If I was in her shoes, I would have tried to get Wooten fired as well, 5 days suspension is bullsh*t.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...0130759AAjO7TW
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
post #89 of 836
Thread Starter 
Hillary has nothing to do with anything.

Whether or not you would abuse executive power in an attempt to settle a familial vendetta means nothing with regard to whether or not that's a desireable trait in a potential leader of the free world.
proud resident of a failed state
Reply
proud resident of a failed state
Reply
post #90 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by groverat View Post

Hillary has nothing to do with anything.

Whether or not you would abuse executive power in an attempt to settle a familial vendetta means nothing with regard to whether or not that's a desireable trait in a potential leader of the free world.

Hillary matters, because it is a parallel - I think that it is likely that this will blow over because all of the Clinton's similar stuff blew over. Also, I mention that I would have done the same thing because I am a voter, and I think that a lot of other voters think the same way as I do on this matter.

I think that the 5 day suspension with all of the charges is evidence that there is some kind of rotten old-boy network in play, and the best way to solve that is to fire the top dog.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
post #91 of 836
So why do you like Palin?
post #92 of 836
I'd like to ask the folks who think it's elitist to dismiss being mayor of a tiny town as relevant experience for the office of the Vice Presidency:

Does it seem to you that such experience is useful for prosecuting the war on terror, either by force or negotiation?

I ask, because it strikes me that Palin's defenders are the same people that have been assuring us that the WOT is much like WWII, a defining moment in global history wherein hangs the balance of civilizations.

So you're saying that it's fine by you if the nice lady ends up being Commander-in-Chief during the Final Battle For Our Way of Life?

To help me understand, does that mean you don't actually take that Battle very seriously, after all, or does it mean you don't take the idea of "qualified" very seriously?

If the latter, what, in your mind, would disqualify someone from being Commander-in-Chief? Head trauma? Under the age of 16? Methamphetamine enthusiast?
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
post #93 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

If the latter, what, in your mind, would disqualify someone from being Commander-in-Chief? Head trauma? Under the age of 16? Methamphetamine enthusiast?

Being a Democrat.
post #94 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

Hillary matters, because it is a parallel - I think that it is likely that this will blow over because all of the Clinton's similar stuff blew over. Also, I mention that I would have done the same thing because I am a voter, and I think that a lot of other voters think the same way as I do on this matter.

I think that the 5 day suspension with all of the charges is evidence that there is some kind of rotten old-boy network in play, and the best way to solve that is to fire the top dog.

And down we go, to lowest common denominator land. Why ask anything of our elected leaders better than what, we, ourselves, in our lesser moments, would be capable of?

I'm guessing, e#s, that if you tried to get an underling fired for personal reasons and got caught, you, too, would lie about it, so that strikes you as reasonable as well?
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
post #95 of 836
Thread Starter 
So you would have fired an innocent man for not playing a role in your familial vendetta?
Remember, Palin didn't fire Wooten, she fired Public Safety Commissioner Walt Monegan who did absolutely nothing wrong. The investigation on Wooten was closed and he had been punished.

As far as whether or not he deserved a harsher punishment; sometimes you don't get what you want. I think it's shameful to praise Palin for ruining an innocent man's career because she had to fight her family's fight with her executive power and run an innocent public servant through the mud to do it.

Would you lie about putting pressure on Monegan before firing him like Palin did?

Wooten is still on the job, apparently, and Monegan said it best, "You can't head hunt like this. What you need to do is back off, because if the trooper does make a mistake, and it is a terminable offense, it can look like political interference."

If this was just one blemish in a long record of credible decision-making and leadership, but it's one of the very few things we know about this woman. It's not like she's got much that is impressive to cover this up with. In the one noteworthy position she's held she's abused her power for personal gain.

A credible argument cannot be made that this woman is a wise choice to be the leader of the free world when her sole position of merit has been on in which she grossly abused her power.
proud resident of a failed state
Reply
proud resident of a failed state
Reply
post #96 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by groverat View Post

Remember, Palin didn't fire Wooten, she fired Public Safety Commissioner Walt Monegan who did absolutely nothing wrong. The investigation on Wooten was closed and he had been punished.

Ah, see I didn't get that part.
post #97 of 836
But petty vindictiveness is a heartland value! It's so elitist to expect elected officials to not use their power to get back at people that have crossed their families! Hey, maybe if Palin gets to be Veep, she can have Wooten taken to Guantanamo! I know that's what I'd do!
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
post #98 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

So why do you like Palin?

- She is pro-business, and also someone who regularly hands CEO's their asses on a plate.

- She is an avid outdoorsman, so I think that you can trust her to keep the environment as clean as possible as long as it does not interfere with economic growth. I hate the environmental movement with a passion, because until recently my income came from a farm, and the greenies were trying to kill that income to save some stupid minnow in the Rio Grande river.

- She is an NRA member. I don't own a gun, but I believe that there is an inverse correlation between crime rates and gun ownership rates (partially offset by greater domestic homicides, but all in all you get a lower crime and death rate).

- She will put strict constitutional judges on the supreme court. I am an atheist and think that abortion is good for society, but I also think that Roe vs Wade was a BS decision based on a strict reading of the constituion, and I want a lot of the other BS to go away (like abuses of the commerce clause). I feel that roe vs wade gave the supreme court licence to do all kinds of crap that isn't justified by the constitution.

- Based on her record as Governor, I think that she is fiscally responsible.

- as Republicans go, she is very gay friendly:

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.co...gay-issue.html

- the downsides of Palin - no experience (like Obama), mild drug warrior, pro-life, religious, pro-intelligent design.

Quote:
Originally Posted by groverat View Post

So you would have fired an innocent man for not playing a role in your familial vendetta?

I don't think he is innocent - the five day suspension is one black mark against him. Also, he evidently had other problems - but its true,
I wouldn't have lied about it.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
post #99 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

Hillary has survived much worse scandals (whitewater, etc). I'm still a big fan of Palin - If I was in her shoes, I would have tried to get Wooten fired as well, 5 days suspension is bullsh*t.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...0130759AAjO7TW

If the issue is Wooten's conduct, then why didn't Palin say so? She claimed to be canning his supervisor for vague "new blood" reasons. If Wooten was such a self-evidently bad actor being protected by a corrupt system, I would think that would be something to be dealt with explicitly.

And why did she lie about it?
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
post #100 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

- She is pro-business, and also someone who regularly hands CEO's their asses on a plate.

- She is an avid outdoorsman, so I think that you can trust her to keep the environment as clean as possible as long as it does not interfere with economic growth. I hate the environmental movement with a passion, because until recently my income came from a farm, and the greenies were trying to kill that income to save some stupid minnow in the Rio Grande river.

- She is an NRA member. I don't own a gun, but I believe that there is an inverse correlation between crime rates and gun ownership rates (partially offset by greater domestic homicides, but all in all you get a lower crime and death rate).

- She will put strict constitutional judges on the supreme court. I am an atheist and think that abortion is good for society, but I also think that Roe vs Wade was a BS decision based on a strict reading of the constituion, and I want a lot of the other BS to go away (like abuses of the commerce clause). I feel that roe vs wade gave the supreme court licence to do all kinds of crap that isn't justified by the constitution.

- Based on her record as Governor, I think that she is fiscally responsible.

- as Republicans go, she is very gay friendly:

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.co...gay-issue.html

- the downsides of Palin - no experience (like Obama), mild drug warrior, pro-life, religious, pro-intelligent design.

You could throw a rock in downtown Omaha and hit someone with those qualifications. You're saying that being a person with opinions you agree with is enough to be Vice President?
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
post #101 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

You could throw a rock in downtown Omaha and hit someone with those qualifications. You're saying that being a person with opinions you agree with is enough to be Vice President?

She has the same level of qualifications as Obama does.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
post #102 of 836
Thread Starter 
Quote:
I don't think he is innocent - the five day suspension is one black mark against him. Also, he evidently had other problems - but its true,
I wouldn't have lied about it.

Was Monegan the one who decided on the five day suspension?

What are these "other problems"?

Do you really want another 8 years of rampant power abuse for political or familial vendettas in the White House?

Quote:
She has the same level of qualifications as Obama does.

Obama is more thoroughly vetted than perhaps any presidential candidate in history. He also has over a decade of documented philosophy, work, and judgment on national and international issues. His record as a public servant is spotless. None of that applies to Sarah Palin.
proud resident of a failed state
Reply
proud resident of a failed state
Reply
post #103 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by groverat View Post

Was Monegan the one who decided on the five day suspension?

What are these "other problems"?

Failure to keep the department budget under control, and failure to recruit enough officers, evidently. He was fired over a year after she pressured him to fire Wooten.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
post #104 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

She has the same level of qualifications as Obama does.

A: Bullshit. Surely one of the stupidest Republican talking points of decade, which is quite the accomplishment.

B: Obama ran for the nomination. He presented his bona fides to the electorate, argued his case. People could read his books, study his proposals, listen to his speeches, evaluate his demeanor, make their choice. Enough of them are apparently satisfied that his time in state and federal senates and the work he did before that qualify him to be president. We'll get a chance to express that choice against in November.

Palin was simply dropped on us. Nobody got to evaluate her but McCain. It was McCain's choice, not ours. It's not Palin's fault that she is not only inexperienced, but appears to have no record of being concerned with larger issues, or even desiring a larger role in the American decision making process. That's John McCain's choice, and the first significant one of his campaign. When it was Obama's turn to make that choice, he picked a seasoned veteran.

Part of Obama's qualification is that he's running for the office. It means he's willing to expend the vast, almost unimaginable resources to get that job and do that work. It means he's thought long and hard about America's role in the world, domestic policy, how one structures an administration, how one goes about enacting policy, and what, ideally, America would look like if one had the audacity to think that big.

Do you imagine Palin thinks that way? Up until recently, she was saying that she wasn't even sure what the Vice President did. She's said that "she hopes" that America has a plan in Iraq, since her kid is going there, and "it better not be about oil."

Now, maybe you find it comforting that she appears to have the same relationship to the larger issues of the day as your average semi-informed voter, but I don't. Again, are you saying that you would be comfortable with Palin as Commander-in-Chief? Because she's an avid outdoorsman and gun owner? Because you figure she can study up real quick on what "the plan" is in Iraq and proceed from their? Because, how hard could it be, right?
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
post #105 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Obama ran for the nomination. He presented his bona fides to the electorate, argued his case. People could read his books, study his proposals, listen to his speeches, evaluate his demeanor, make their choice. Enough of them are apparently satisfied that his time in state and federal senates and the work he did before that qualify him to be president. We'll get a chance to express that choice against in November.

Biden did the same, and was soundly REJECTED by the electorate. So Obama dumped somebody on us that we had already tossed on the scrap heap as unacceptable - how is this any different from Palin?

We just differ in our value systems - in mine, Obama isn't as great as you think, and Palin is much better than you think. I'm still going to vote for Obama, because I think that McCain is dangerous, but I like Palin. I am more comfortable with Palin as commander in chief than, say, Kerry - I just think that upper class people are too detached to make good military leaders.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
post #106 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

- She is pro-business, and also someone who regularly hands CEO's their asses on a plate.

She is responsible not just for an increase in taxes on oil companies, but a windfall profits tax on them.

Quote:
- She is an avid outdoorsman, so I think that you can trust her to keep the environment as clean as possible as long as it does not interfere with economic growth. I hate the environmental movement with a passion, because until recently my income came from a farm, and the greenies were trying to kill that income to save some stupid minnow in the Rio Grande river.

Being in favor of ANWR drilling doesn't exactly seem consistent with "keeping the environment as clean as possible" but your "as long as it does not interfere with economic growth" caveat is big enough to drive an oil tanker through it. Just about any attempt to fuck up the environment could be justified with that.

Quote:
- She is an NRA member. I don't own a gun, but I believe that there is an inverse correlation between crime rates and gun ownership rates (partially offset by greater domestic homicides, but all in all you get a lower crime and death rate).

You may believe that, but it's just not true. The region with the highest crime and violent crime rates, the south, also has among the highest gun ownership rates.

Quote:
- She will put strict constitutional judges on the supreme court. I am an atheist and think that abortion is good for society, but I also think that Roe vs Wade was a BS decision based on a strict reading of the constituion, and I want a lot of the other BS to go away (like abuses of the commerce clause). I feel that roe vs wade gave the supreme court licence to do all kinds of crap that isn't justified by the constitution.

She's definitely pro-life, but do we know anything about her judicial appointment philosophy?

Quote:
- Based on her record as Governor, I think that she is fiscally responsible.

She hasn't been governor for very long, and Alaska's revenues are rolling in because of oil profits, but she apparently destroyed the finances of Wasilla when she was its mayor.

Quote:
- as Republicans go, she is very gay friendly:

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.co...gay-issue.html

She's not gay friendly, she's opposed to gay marriage and gay partnerships. She vetoed one anti-gay bill because she believed it to be unconstitutional, which is a good thing and many politicians wouldn't have cared about that, but to say she's "very gay-friendly" is a stretch.
post #107 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

Biden did the same, and was soundly REJECTED by the electorate. So Obama dumped somebody on us that we had already tossed on the scrap heap as unacceptable - how is this any different from Palin?

No offense, but that's gibberish. We're talking about the judgement of the respective nominees in their vice presidential picks. Utterly unqualified vs. didn't win his party's nomination for president aren't magically equivalent because they are both selected by the candidate.

Quote:
We just differ in our value systems - in mine, Obama isn't as great as you think, and Palin is much better than you think. I'm still going to vote for Obama, because I think that McCain is dangerous, but I like Palin. I am more comfortable with Palin as commander in chief than, say, Kerry - I just think that upper class people are too detached to make good military leaders.

Apparently our values do differ. The fact that you "like" Palin for Commander-in-Chief after googling her for a few hours suggests that you hold the office in very low regard.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
post #108 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Apparently our values do differ. The fact that you "like" Palin for Commander-in-Chief after googling her for a few hours suggests that you hold the office in very low regard.

Obama and Palin are very similar in their appeal - mostly it is personality appeal on both sides. If it was John Kerry running again with the Obama platform, would you be as happy? Of course not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post

You may believe that, but it's just not true. The region with the highest crime and violent crime rates, the south, also has among the highest gun ownership rates.

My town in Canada had 99% gun ownership, and zero murders. Your correlation is between poverty and crime, not gun ownership - watch "Bowling for columbine", Michael Moore admits that gun ownership levels must not be the cause of the high crime rates in the US, because that correlation does not hold for other countries.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
post #109 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

Biden did the same, and was soundly REJECTED by the electorate.

Why does ultimately selecting Obama mean Democrats are "against" or find "unacceptable" any of the other candidates?
post #110 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawnJ View Post

Why does ultimately selecting Obama mean Democrats are "against" or find "unacceptable" any of the other candidates?

Nothing - it is the number of votes Biden received that showed him as being unacceptable (5th place in Iowa, with less than 1% of the vote, etc).
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
post #111 of 836
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Obama and Palin are very similar in their appeal - mostly it is personality appeal on both sides.

Nonsense. Obama's personality has magnetic aspects, but he's an impressive person who has led an impressive life. He has worked his own way up from a single-parent background and achieved at very high levels in higher education and government.

It's night and day.

Education:
Sarah Palin - BS in Journalism from the University of Idaho
Barack Obama - BA from Columbia University and JD magna cum laude from Harvard Law (where he was president of Law Review, the most prestigious student law journal in the nation)

In 1984 Sarah Palin (then Sarah Heath) won the Miss Wasilla beauty contest (she played flute for her talent and won "Miss Congeniality").
In 1984 Obama had graduated from Columbia University and had a job in an international publishing and advisory firm.

To be fair, Palin is 3 years younger than Obama. However, there just isn't much to give a shit about in Palin's supposed experience and qualifications. She is thoroughly unimpressive. There's nothing wrong with that. I would be an embarrassment, too, when it came to qualifications to be leader of the free world.

The whole "elect your next-door neighbor because, bah gawd, you could have a beer with him" attitude got us George W Bush.

Quote:
Nothing - it is the number of votes Biden received that showed him as being unacceptable (5th place in Iowa, with less than 1% of the vote, etc).

How does that show him being "unacceptable"? I can't wait to hear the logic on that one...
proud resident of a failed state
Reply
proud resident of a failed state
Reply
post #112 of 836
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Obama and Palin are very similar in their appeal - mostly it is personality appeal on both sides.

Nonsense. Obama's personality has magnetic aspects, but he's an impressive person who has led an impressive life. He has worked his own way up from a single-parent background and achieved at very high levels in higher education and government.

It's night and day.

Education:
Sarah Palin - BS in Journalism from the University of Idaho
Barack Obama - BA from Columbia University and JD magna cum laude from Harvard Law (where he was president of Law Review, the most prestigious student law journal in the nation)

In 1984 Sarah Palin (then Sarah Heath) won the Miss Wasilla beauty contest (she played flute for her talent and won "Miss Congeniality").
In 1984 Obama had graduated from Columbia University and had a job in an international publishing and advisory firm.

To be fair, Palin is 3 years younger than Obama. However, there just isn't much to give a shit about in Palin's supposed experience and qualifications. She is thoroughly unimpressive. There's nothing wrong with that. I would be an embarrassment, too, when it came to qualifications to be leader of the free world.

The whole "elect your next-door neighbor because, bah gawd, you could have a beer with him" attitude got us George W Bush.

Quote:
Nothing - it is the number of votes Biden received that showed him as being unacceptable (5th place in Iowa, with less than 1% of the vote, etc).

How does that show him being "unacceptable"? I can't wait to hear the logic on that one...
proud resident of a failed state
Reply
proud resident of a failed state
Reply
post #113 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

- She is pro-business, and also someone who regularly hands CEO's their asses on a plate.

I like how she cleaned up Alaska a bit. This is one reason I don't think too much about the controversy given that it could be some political payback going on.

Quote:
- She is an avid outdoorsman, so I think that you can trust her to keep the environment as clean as possible as long as it does not interfere with economic growth. I hate the environmental movement with a passion, because until recently my income came from a farm, and the greenies were trying to kill that income to save some stupid minnow in the Rio Grande river.

I guess. I am no fan of the environmental movement either but I'm not a big fan of drilling ANWR.

Quote:
- She is an NRA member. I don't own a gun, but I believe that there is an inverse correlation between crime rates and gun ownership rates (partially offset by greater domestic homicides, but all in all you get a lower crime and death rate).

This is fine.

Quote:
- She will put strict constitutional judges on the supreme court. I am an atheist and think that abortion is good for society, but I also think that Roe vs Wade was a BS decision based on a strict reading of the constituion, and I want a lot of the other BS to go away (like abuses of the commerce clause). I feel that roe vs wade gave the supreme court licence to do all kinds of crap that isn't justified by the constitution.

Oddly, Thomas and Scalia just rub me the wrong way even as constitutionalists. I feel they try to interpret too broadly and I prefer those that tend to rule more narrowly.

Quote:
- Based on her record as Governor, I think that she is fiscally responsible.

- as Republicans go, she is very gay friendly:

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.co...gay-issue.html

- the downsides of Palin - no experience (like Obama), mild drug warrior, pro-life, religious, pro-intelligent design.

No experience will cure itself. Very not keen on pro-intelligent design. Religius is fine given neither Biden nor Obama is atheist so long as it is moderated with the understanding not everyone is a Christian.

I personally wish she was more a moderate like Snowe. Actually I pretty much like most folks declared a RINO which kinda tells you what kind of Republican I am. A very moderate one.
post #114 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

Nothing - it is the number of votes Biden received that showed him as being unacceptable (5th place in Iowa, with less than 1% of the vote, etc).

Why does that show it?

I think it shows that other candidates were more popular, not that they found Biden unacceptable per se or that he wasn't qualified for the job per se.
post #115 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawnJ View Post

Why does that show it?

I think it shows that other candidates were more popular, not that they found Biden unacceptable per se or that he wasn't qualified for the job per se.

How far down the polls do you need to be before it is considered unacceptable to the electorate? Biden got 1% in Iowa, Kucinich got 0% - would Kuchinich be considered acceptable?
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
post #116 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

Obama and Palin are very similar in their appeal - mostly it is personality appeal on both sides. If it was John Kerry running again with the Obama platform, would you be as happy? Of course not.

You know, I'm starting to think the Republicans are going to lose this election because they came to believe their own talking points.

McCain apparently bought into the "PUMA" hype and figured he could get some of the pissed-off lady vote by just grabbing up any old lady.

He apparently also bought into the "empty suit" canards and figures that makes an empty-pants suit just as viable.

Obama is an appealing candidate with an appealing message, and, for his voter, an appealing plan. Joe Biden is part of that plan, and, as such, appeals.

Palin appears to be a fairly appealing woman. The end. No plan, no record of a plan, no way to know what she would do, specifically, were she to become president, beyond nodding her head on some bullet-points on the winger want list.

Why are we even having this conversation? McCain made a weak choice based on the hopes that that weakness would be outweighed by shoring up a demographic, come November. Is it actually necessary to pretend that it was a strong choice?
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
post #117 of 836
Thread Starter 
Quote:
How far down the polls do you need to be before it is considered unacceptable to the electorate? Biden got 1% in Iowa, Kucinich got 0% - would Kuchinich be considered acceptable?

If you were talking about a run-off type vote in which every voter could choose all "acceptable" candidates you'd have a point. Having a preference for one over another doesn't mean one is "unacceptable", only less preferable.

If I am offered pepperoni pizza or a cheeseburger for dinner, does my choosing the pizza mean I thought the cheeseburger was "unacceptable"?

Christ... that's just basic logic.
proud resident of a failed state
Reply
proud resident of a failed state
Reply
post #118 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by groverat View Post

If you were talking about a run-off type vote in which every voter could choose all "acceptable" candidates you'd have a point. Having a preference for one over another doesn't mean one is "unacceptable", only less preferable.

If I am offered pepperoni pizza or a cheeseburger for dinner, does my choosing the pizza mean I thought the cheeseburger was "unacceptable"?

Christ... that's just basic logic.

If McDonalds offered 5 hamburgers, and one of them got 1% or less of total sales - they would drop it. Your logic works for single decision makers, but for large groups it is much worse for Biden. He offered so little that even Bill Richardson beat him 2-1, his group of supporters was small because he was an unappealing candidate.

Biden is a sexist with cronic foot in mouth disease, and Palin is a Biden trap - he won't be able to help himself, something sexist will leak out of that big mouth of his.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
post #119 of 836
Thread Starter 
Quote:
If McDonalds offered 5 hamburgers, and one of them got 1% or less of total sales - they would drop it.

What in blue fuck is this analogy supposed to mean with regards to "preferability" versus "acceptability"?

Quote:
Your logic works for single decision makers, but for large groups it is much worse for Biden. He offered so little that even Bill Richardson beat him 2-1, his group of supporters was small because he was an unappealing candidate.

Less appealing than the ones that ran against him is not the same as "unacceptable".

Stop dodging that and acknowledge that you're dead wrong in using that word.

Quote:
Biden is a sexist with cronic foot in mouth disease, and Palin is a Biden trap - he won't be able to help himself, something sexist will leak out of that big mouth of his.

And Palin is racist and anti-Semitic.
Hey, look at me, I'm making unsubstantiated attempts at character assassination, too!
proud resident of a failed state
Reply
proud resident of a failed state
Reply
post #120 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

If McDonalds offered 5 hamburgers, and one of them got 1% or less of total sales - they would drop it. Your logic works for single decision makers, but for large groups it is much worse for Biden. He offered so little that even Bill Richardson beat him 2-1, his group of supporters was small because he was an unappealing candidate.

Biden is a sexist with cronic foot in mouth disease, and Palin is a Biden trap - he won't be able to help himself, something sexist will leak out of that big mouth of his.

So, I can go and read up, at length, on what Joe Biden thinks about foreign relations, war, the international economy, Iraq, terror, etc., because learning about those things is what the man has been doing with his life, while I can know virtually nothing about what Palin thinks about those things, because, it appears, she has not thought about those things, but, to you, being a bit of a windbag is the greater impediment to office.

So do you think running the country is kinda like a swap meet?
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: PoliticalOutsider
AppleInsider › Forums › Other Discussion › AppleOutsider › PoliticalOutsider › Once the initial defensiveness re: Palin dies down...