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Once the initial defensiveness re: Palin dies down... - Page 21

post #801 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post

Everything she touches, turns to trash.

She has now started her own PAC...

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...qLf5gD95VNOPO0

She doesn't want to go away.

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply
post #802 of 836
DRILL, BABY, DRILL!!!

The village is called Emmonak.You can donate at these contact points:

City of Emmonak, (907) 949-1227/1249
(They will take donations by credit card. Please specify the donation is for heating oil!)
Emmonak Tribal Council, (907) 949-1720

or send a check to:
Emmonak Tribal Council
P.O. Box 126
Emmonak, AK 99581
post #803 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

She has now started her own PAC...

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...qLf5gD95VNOPO0

She doesn't want to go away.

Of course not. She knows she has Limbaugh, Hannity, Levin, and company keeping the base excited about her. They can easily keep it up for 4 years and hope that Obama falters.
post #804 of 836
Oh, how Sara continues to entertain:

First, she brushes off the GOP members of the House of Representatives because she was too busy with state affairs... yet spends the time in Washington, DC, at a dinner party. Saddest of all, though, is the congress people are upset because she lied to them.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/200...stiffs-th.html

Then she pushes for another road (or two) to the tune of 3 million or more per mile.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/200...stiffs-th.html

Gotta love her.

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply
post #805 of 836
...Todd Palin held in contempt of Alaska state Senate

Quote:
This morning, the Alaska Senate resolution holding Palin et al. in contempt passed 16 to 1, per Moore's blog. The resolution "did not address the actions of [Palin appointee] Attorney General Talis Colberg," instead calling for "no penalties to the [seven] witnesses because they were being guided by the Attorney General" and did cooperate with lead "Troopergate" investigator Stephen Branchflower after Colberg's challenge to the subpoenas was thrown out of court.

That's funny because his wife is held in contempt in most states.
post #806 of 836
Commentary Magazine

Quote:
Two political figures dominated the final months of the 2008 presidential campaign. One was the Democratic nominee, Barack Obama. The other had been unknown to all but 670,000 Americans only a few minutes before she was first introduced by the Republican nominee, John McCain, at a rally in Ohio on the Friday before the Republican National Convention, only 66 days before the November election.

By the close of that first weekend, Governor Sarah Palin of Alaska had become a national sensation. Two days after that, she delivered her debut address at the Republican National Convention as the partys vice-presidential nomineea dazzling stemwinder, it was all but universally acknowledged. McCains dramatic and unexpected bet appeared to have paid off in spades.

But by November 4, the day of the election, Sarah Palin had been transformed into one of the most divisive figures in recent American history. There was almost no middle ground between those who had come to adore her and those who believed she represented just about every dark and dangerous element of contemporary American politics. In choosing Palin, McCain had hoped to shake up the race; but the fault lines exposed by the Palin earthquake were not the ones he had thought they might be. He had wanted to run against the Washington status quo as a reformer with an independent streak. He believed he was picking a fellow reformist politician with a history of taking on the leadership of her own party, and that Palin would prove acceptable to the Republican base because of her social conservatism. Instead, Palin became an instant cultural and political magnet, attracting some and repelling others and dragging a helpless McCain into a culture war for which he had little stomach. Indeed, the overheated response to Palins presence on the national stage, from both friend and foe, was oddly disconnected from Palins actual actions, statements, and record. It was a turn of events no one could have anticipated, and one that has much to teach us about American political life in our day.

_____________



Before her elevation, Palin had not been known as a combatant in the cultural battles of recent years. She had been serving as the popular chief executive of a geographically vast, sparsely populated, and economically vital state. She held conventionally conservative Republican viewspro-gun, anti-tax, and pro-life. She had risen to prominence by taking on Alaskas corrupt and profligate Republican establishment. In running for and winning the governorship in 2006, she had promised (and had begun to deliver) reforms of the states relationship with Washington and with the oil companies that dominated its economy.

In all these respects, Palin was an uncanny match for John McCain. Her political style and priorities resembled McCains in a way that no other senior Republican elected officials did. Her conservatism, like McCains, was more an attitude than an ideology: it was a kind of moralistic anti-corruptionism, obsessed with honest dealing and powerfully allergic to excess and waste. Palin did not, of course, share McCains foreign-policy expertise or his heroic biography, but she shared what he often stressed most about himself, and what he most wanted to run on: she was, as the public would soon be informed ad nauseam, a reforming maverick.

Palins social conservatism had never been the core of her political identity in Alaska. She always expressed general support for traditionalist views in interviews and debates, and it was widely known that she had also chosen to proceed with her fifth pregnancy after discovering the child had Down syndromea discovery that in about nine of ten cases leads parents to opt for abortion. But Palin never went out of her way to raise abortion or other social or cultural issues, and in her first two years as governor had not sought to change state policies in these areas. She was a good-government reformer with social conservative leanings, not the other way around.

_____________



But this was not how Palin was received on the national scene. Instead, her views on matters of cultural and social controversy very quickly became the chief focus of media attention, liberal criticism, and pundit analysis. Palin was assigned every view and position the Left considered unenlightened, and the response to her brought into the light all manner of implicit liberal assumptions about cultural conservatives. We were told that Palin was opposed to contraception, advocated teaching creationism in schools, and was inclined to ban books she disagreed with. She was described as a religious zealot, an anti-abortion extremist, a blind champion of abstinence-only sex education. She was said to have sought to make rape victims pay for their own medical exams, to have Alaska secede from the Union, and to get Pat Buchanan elected President. She was reported to believe that the Iraq war was mandated by God, that the end-times prophesied in the Book of Revelation were nearing and only Alaska would survive, and that global warming was purely a myth. None of this was true.

Her personal life came under withering assault as well. Palins capacity to function as a senior elected official while raising five children was repeatedly questioned by liberal pundits who would never dare to express such views about a female candidate whose opinions were more congenial to them. Her teenage daughters pregnancy was splattered all over the front pages (garnering three New York Times stories in a single day on September 2). Some bloggers even suggested her youngest child had not issued from her, but from her daughter instead, and that she had participated in a bizarre cover-up. I attended a gathering in Washington at which a prominent columnist wondered aloud how Palin could pursue her career when her religious beliefs denied women the right to work outside the home.

Palin became the embodiment of every dark fantasy the Left had ever held about the views of evangelical Christians and women who do not associate themselves with contemporary feminism, and all concern for clarity and truthfulness was left at the door.

To be sure, some criticisms of Palin were entirely appropriate. She had no experience in foreign or defense policy and very little expertise in or command of either. In a time of war, with a seventy-two-year-old presidential candidate who had already survived one bout with cancer, this was a cause for very real concern. And Palin did perform dreadfully in some early interviews. Some of her more level-headed critics did make their case on these grounds. But the more common visceral hostility toward her seemed to have little to do with these objections. Rather, the entire episode had the feel of a kind of manic outburst; it was triggered by a false understanding of who Palin was, and once it began, there was no stopping or controlling it.

The reaction to Palin revealed a deep and intense cultural paranoia on the Left: an inclination to see retrograde reaction around every corner, and to respond to it with vile anger. A confident, happy, and politically effective woman who was also a social conservative was evidently too much to bear. The response of liberal feminists was in this respect particularly telling, and especially unpleasant.

Her greatest hypocrisy is her pretense that she is a woman, wrote Wendy Doniger, a professor at the University of Chicago. Having someone who looks like you and behaves like them, said Gloria Steinem, who looks like a friend but behaves like an adversary, is worse than having no one.

This preposterous effort to excommunicate Palin from her gender suggests that the kind of new-order feminism she representsa feminism that embraces cultural traditionalism and workplace egalitarianism at the same timeis especially frightening to those on the feminist Left because they recognize its power and appeal. The attempt to destroy Sarah Palin by rushing to paint her as a backwoods extremist was not a show of strength, but rather a sign of desperation.

_____________



Meanwhile, on the Right, Palin was the cause of a manic episode of a different sort. The governors touching life story, her folksy way of speaking, and her gut-level appeal to the culture of the lower middle class exercised tremendous power over many conservatives, which inclined them to fill the sizable blanks in Palins political profile with their own wishful assumptions, and to make flustered excuses for her shortcomings.

There was a strong case to be made in her defense. Palin had as much foreign-policy experience as most governors do, and Americans have been willing time and again to overlook such inexperience in their hunger for proven executive acumen in Washington. (Four of the last five Presidents had been governors, after all, and Palin was running for Vice President with a foreign-policy expert at the top of the ticket.) And while Palin seemed out of her depth in several television interviews, she was extraordinarily effective on the stump, was a quick study, and proved to be at least an even match for Joe Biden, a six-term senator, in the vice-presidential debate.

Yet, for all these defenses, there could be no denying Palins real deficiencies. Nonetheless, Palin was embraced practically without reservation in many conservative circles. The very heat of the Lefts campaign against her made her all the more a darling of the Right. She became the 2008 poster child for the longstanding conservative grudge against the mainstream media. And, of course, having warmly accepted her unborn child with Down syndrome and having supported and encouraged her teenage daughters decision to bring to term an unplanned pregnancy and to marry the babys father, Palin instantly became an icon of the pro-life cause.

It seemed to matter not a whit that Palin had never taken any action on abortion in her time as governor, and rarely had much to say on the subject. Indeed, even as she campaigned before captivated audiences, drawing tens of thousands of proud conservatives to rallies in a display of rock-star popularity no vice-presidential candidate had ever earned, Palin barely spoke about abortion or social issues.
Palin did not merit her instantaneous conversion into the Joan of Arc of the American Right, just as she did not deserve the opprobrium that was heaped upon her by the Left.

So why did it happen? What was the Palin episode really about? The answer has much to do with the age-old tension between populism and elitism in our public life, which is to say, between the notion that we are best governed by the views, needs, and interests of the many and the conviction that power can only be managed wisely by a select few.

_____________



In American politics, the distinction between populism and elitism is further subdivided into cultural and economic populism and elitism. And for at least the last forty years, the two parties have broken down distinctly along this double axis. The Republican party has been the party of cultural populism and economic elitism, and the Democrats have been the party of cultural elitism and economic populism. Republicans tend to identify with the traditional values, unabashedly patriotic, anti-cosmopolitan, non-nuanced Joe Sixpack, even as they pursue an economic policy that aims at elite investor-driven growth. Democrats identify with the mistreated, underpaid, overworked, crushed-by-the-corporation people against the powerful, but tend to look down on those peoples religion, education, and way of life. Republicans tend to believe the dynamism of the market is for the best but that cultural change can be dangerously disruptive; Democrats tend to believe dynamic social change stretches the boundaries of inclusion for the better but that economic dynamism is often ruinous and unjust.

Both economic and cultural populism are politically potent, but in America, unlike in Europe, cultural populism has always been much more powerful. Americans do not resent the success of others, but they do resent arrogance, and especially intellectual arrogance. Even the poor in our country tend to be moved more by cultural than by economic appeals. It was this sense, this feeling, that Sarah Palin channeled so effectively. Her appearance on the scene unleashed populist energies that McCain had not tapped, and she both fed them and fed off them. She spent the bulk of her time at Republican rallies assailing the cultural radicalism of Barack Obama and his latte-sipping followers, who, she occasionally suggested, were not part of the the real America she saw in the adoring throngs standing before her. Palin channeled these cultural energies more by what she was than by what she said or did, which contributed mightily to the odd disjunction between her professional resume and her campaign presence and impact.

_____________



Palins cultural populism put her at odds with the foe that did her the most serious damage: the nations intellectual elite, whose initial suspicion of her deepened into outright loathing as the campaign progressed. Her inability in interviews to offer coherent answers about the Bush Doctrine, regulatory reform, and the Supreme Courts case history, together with her unexceptional academic record and the fact that she had spent almost no time abroad, were offered as evidence that Palin represented a dangerous strain of anti-intellectualism on the Right.

She was, the Left-leaning Christopher Hitchens insisted, a religious fanatic and a proud, boastful ignoramus. The Right-leaning David Brooks called Palin a fatal cancer to the Republican party because her inclination is not only to scorn liberal ideas but to scorn ideas entirely.

Palin never actually boasted of ignorance or explicitly scorned learning or ideas. Rather, the implicit charge was that Palins failure to speak the language and to share the common points of reference of the educated upper tier of American society essentially rendered her unfit for high office.

This form of intellectual elitism is actually fairly new in America, though it has been a dominant feature of European society since World War II. It is not as exclusive or as anti-democratic as cultural elitism is in other countries, because entry to the American intellectual elite is, in principle, open to all who pursue it. And pursuing it is not as difficult as it once was, at least for the middle class. Indeed, most of this elites prominent members hail from middle-class origins and not from traditional bastions of American privilege and wealth. They can speak of growing up in Scranton, even as they raise their noses at dirty coal and hunting season.

Nor is membership in the intellectual upper class determined by diplomas hanging on the wall. Palin could have gained entrance easily, despite the fact that she holds a mere degree in journalism from the University of Idaho. Although the intellectual elite is deeply shaped by our leading institutions of higher learning, belonging to it is more the result of shared assumptions and attitudes. It is more cultural than academic, more NPR than PhD. In Washington, many politicians who have not risen through the best of universities work hard for years to master the language and the suppositions of this upper tier, and to live carefully within the bounds prescribed by its view of the world.

Applied to politics, the worldview of the intellectual elite begins from an unstated assumption that governing is fundamentally an exercise of the mind: an application of the proper mix of theory, expertise, and intellectual distance that calls for knowledge and verbal fluency more than for prudence born of lifes hard lessons.

Sarah Palin embodied a very different notion of politics, in which sound instincts and valuable life experiences are considered sources of knowledge at least the equal of book learning. She is the product of an America in which explicit displays of pride in intellect are considered unseemly, and where physical prowess and moral constancy are given a higher place than intellectual achievement. She was in the habit of stressing these faculties insteada habit that struck many in Washington as brutishness.

This is why Palin was seen as anti-intellectual when, properly speaking, she was simply non-intellectual. What she lacked was not intelligenceshe is, clearly, highly intelligentbut rather the particular set of assumptions, references, and attitudes inculcated by Americas top twenty universities and transmitted by the nations elite cultural organs.

Many of those (including especially those on the Right) who reacted badly to Palin on intellectual grounds understand themselves to be advancing the interests of lower-middle-class families similar to Palins own family and to many of those in attendance at her rallies who greeted her arrival on the scene as a kind of deliverance. But it is hard to escape the conclusion that while these members of the intellectual elite want the government to serve the interests of such people first and foremost, they do not want those people to hold the levers of power. They see lower-middle-class populists like Palin and their supporters as profoundly ill-suited for governance, because they lack the accoutrements required for its employmentespecially in foreign policy, which, even more than domestic affairs, is thought to be an intellectual exercise. It is for this reason that Barack Obama, who actually has far less experience in executive governance than Palin, was not dismissed as unprepared for the presidency. Palin may have been elected governor of Alaska, but his peers in Cambridge had elected Obama editor of the Harvard Law Review. He is thoroughly fluent in the parlance of the college town, and in the eyes of the new American elite, Washington is the ultimate college town.

_____________



The reaction of the intellectual elite to Sarah Palin was far more provincial than Palin herself ever has been, and those who reacted so viscerally against her evinced little or no appreciation for an essential premise of democracy: that practical wisdom matters at least as much as formal education, and that leadership can emerge from utterly unexpected places. The presumption that the only road to power passes through the Ivy League and its tributaries is neither democratic nor sensible, and is, moreover, a sharp and wrongheaded break from the American tradition of citizen governance.

_____________



And yet one must acknowledge that Palin was a problematic candidate. Charismatic and thrilling though she was at first glance, and impressive and dogged though she was throughout her 66-day run, she ended up at the center of a political and cultural vacuum of her own creation. She began by opening up a huge space for herself, and then was unable to fill it.

The sense of potential that accompanied Palins introduction, and the feeling that she might really reverse the momentum of the campaign, were not illusory. For two weeks or so, the polls moved markedly in McCains direction, as it seemed that his running mate was something genuinely new in American politics: a lower-middle-class woman who spoke the language of the countrys ordinary voters and had a profound personal understanding of the hopes and worries of a vast swath of the public. She really did seize the attention of swing voters, as McCains team had hoped she might. Her convention speech, her interviews, and her debate performance drew unprecedented audiences.

But having finally gotten voters to listen, neither Palin nor McCain could think of anything to say to them. Palins reformism, like McCains, was essentially an attitude devoid of substance. Both Republican candidates told us they hated corruption and would cut excess and waste. But separately and together, they offered no overarching vision of America, no consistent view of the role of government, no clear description of what a free society should look like, and no coherent policy ideas that might actually address the concerns of American families and offer solutions to the serious problems of the moment. Palins populism was not her weakness, but her strength. Her weakness was that she failed to tie her populism to anything deeper. A successful conservative reformism has to draw on cultural populism, but it has also to draw on a worldview, on ideas about society and government, and on a policy agenda. This would make it more intellectual, but not necessarily less populist.

McCains advisers were right about Palin: she was a mirror image of John McCain. She was not a visionary politician, or a programmatic politician, but an attitude politician with an appealing biography. In the end, she was no more able than McCain to offer a coherent rationale for his presidency.

That was not her job, though; it was his. The striking thing about the last two months of the 2008 presidential race was not Palins inability to turn things around decisively for McCain, but her success in giving McCain a lead for even a short while. She seized the imagination of the public in a way that scared the Left, and rightly so. It is not Palins fault that McCain was incapable of harnessing the phenomenal response to his running mate to his own advantage.

In the end, Palin had a modest impact on the race. About 60 percent of those interviewed in the exit polls said McCains choice of Palin had been a factor in their vote. Of these, 56 percent voted for McCain while only 43 percent voted for Obama. In other words, she appears to have helped McCain more than she hurt him, but not by much, which is as it should be; we were voting for a President, after all. In the face of unprecedented attack, Palin succeeded where almost no vice-presidential candidate ever has before in winning sustained support for the ticket.

This suggests Palins potent combination of cultural populism and social conservatism might provide the roadmap a Republican politician will need in the future to make headway against the Democratic tide. But that roadmap will only take that Republican politician so far. The rest of the journey requires the articulation of a broader vision for American families, American prosperity and freedom, and American security; a vision of conservatism, not only a nimbus of populism.

There is every reason to believe Palin will try to accomplish just this in a future national election. It may be, however, that other ambitious Republicans will be better suited to the task of perfecting the formula for electoral success she introduced last fall.

Either way, the Palin moment shed a powerful light on the power, the potential, and the ultimate inadequacy of a conservatism grounded solely in cultural populism. It also exposed the vulnerability of the Left to a challenge to its most cherished claimsas the sole representative of the interests of the working class and the only legitimate path to political power for an ambitious woman.

And, perhaps even more telling, it revealed the unfortunate and unattractive propensity of the American cultural elite to treat those who are not deemed part of the elect with condescension and contumely.

The real power of Sarah Palin is proven each day someone has to strike at her several months after the election.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #807 of 836
After picking through that shit, I found this peanut...

Quote:
But having finally gotten voters to listen, neither Palin nor McCain could think of anything to say to them. Palin’s reformism, like McCain’s, was essentially an attitude devoid of substance. Both Republican candidates told us they hated corruption and would cut excess and waste. But separately and together, they offered no overarching vision of America, no consistent view of the role of government, no clear description of what a free society should look like, and no coherent policy ideas that might actually address the concerns of American families and offer solutions to the serious problems of the moment. Palin’s populism was not her weakness, but her strength. Her weakness was that she failed to tie her populism to anything deeper. A successful conservative reformism has to draw on cultural populism, but it has also to draw on a worldview, on ideas about society and government, and on a policy agenda. This would make it more intellectual, but not necessarily less populist.

McCain’s advisers were right about Palin: she was a mirror image of John McCain. She was not a visionary politician, or a programmatic politician, but an attitude politician with an appealing biography. In the end, she was no more able than McCain to offer a coherent rationale for his presidency.

That was not her job, though; it was his. The striking thing about the last two months of the 2008 presidential race was not Palin’s inability to turn things around decisively for McCain, but her success in giving McCain a lead for even a short while. She seized the imagination of the public in a way that scared the Left, and rightly so. It is not Palin’s fault that McCain was incapable of harnessing the phenomenal response to his running mate to his own advantage.

In the end, Palin had a modest impact on the race. About 60 percent of those interviewed in the exit polls said McCain’s choice of Palin had been a factor in their vote. Of these, 56 percent voted for McCain while only 43 percent voted for Obama. In other words, she appears to have helped McCain more than she hurt him, but not by much, which is as it should be; we were voting for a President, after all. In the face of unprecedented attack, Palin succeeded where almost no vice-presidential candidate ever has before in winning sustained support for the ticket.

Lots a words, no substance here. In sales, a woman is considered in some circles as a 10 per center. Meaning that a female sales person can bring in 10% or even more to a sale that otherwise a male counterpart may not. This is what Palin was in my opinion for McCain. True, she wasn't running for president, but would have been next in line. As I had done, I looked at the pairs running for office, shuffled them around and came to this decision...

Palin or Biden for president? What if? Biden.

McCain or Obama for president? What if? Obama.

End of story. For now.

Quote:
Palin stiffs the House Republicans

January 31, 2009 7:34 PM

ABC News' Jonathan Karl reports: When House Republicans planned their annual winter retreat, they extended an invitation to Alaska Gov. Sara Palin, hoping the party's 2008 vice presidential nominee would give a morale-building speech to the more than 130 Republican members of Congress gathered this weekend in Hot Springs, Va.

Retreat organizers tell ABC News that Palin politely declined, giving a perfectly understandable reason. According to the Congressional Institute, which hosted the conference, Palin said she simply could not make it to the retreat because pressing state business made it impossible for her to leave Alaska this weekend.

So where is Palin this weekend? She's in Washington, D.C., attending the super-elite Alfalfa Dinner.

"She lied to us," said a Republican at the retreat.

Asked why Palin told the Republicans she could not leave Alaska this weekend, Palin spokesman Bill McAllister offered this non-responsive answer:

"My understanding is that the governor has not scheduled any partisan events on her current trip to D.C.," McAllister told ABC News.

The House Republicans seemed to do just fine without Palin. Their list of speakers included Republican stars Michael Steele, Mitt Romney, Tim Pawlenty and Newt Gingrich.

Asked about Palin's no-show, House Republican leader John Boehner shrugged.

"Whatever," Boehner said.

Next?



Actually, can we start a Sara Palin drinking game?
post #808 of 836
Quote:
About 60 percent of those interviewed in the exit polls said McCains choice of Palin had been a factor in their vote. Of these, 56 percent voted for McCain while only 43 percent voted for Obama. In other words, she appears to have helped McCain more than she hurt him

That conclusion cannot be drawn from that data point.
A good brain ain't diddly if you don't have the facts
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A good brain ain't diddly if you don't have the facts
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post #809 of 836
Isn't it curious how lately all the scandals involve Democrats but all the pictures depicting anything bad happening involve Democrats pretending to be Republicans?

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #810 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

The real power of Sarah Palin is proven each day someone has to strike at her several months after the election.

Someone makes a crack about Jessica Simpson every day, too, and it ain't because they're afraid of her.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #811 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter View Post

Someone makes a crack about Jessica Simpson every day, too, and it ain't because they're afraid of her.

I disagree.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #812 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

I disagree.

That's fine. You're still wrong, though.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #813 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter View Post

That's fine. You're still wrong, though.

Don't worry, I'm pretty sure you are basing what you believe off of anecdotes. Until we are willing to start cataloging and labeling and defining those anecdotes, then no one can draw any conclusions.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #814 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Don't worry, I'm pretty sure you are basing what you believe off of anecdotes. Until we are willing to start cataloging and labeling and defining those anecdotes, then no one can draw any conclusions.

You are correct. My opinions about Palin are almost entirely founded upon anecdotes. And I truly hope that she is the future of the GOP.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #815 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter View Post

You are correct. My opinions about Palin are almost entirely founded upon anecdotes. And I truly hope that she is the future of the GOP.

You're obviously just saying that because you're so afraid of her.

Myself? My fear of Joe the Economic Advisor makes me want him to stay front and center for the foreseeable future. That'll show us.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #816 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

You're obviously just saying that because you're so afraid of her.

Myself? My fear of Joe the Economic Advisor makes me want him to stay front and center for the foreseeable future. That'll show us.

No. Joe the Political Advisor is where it's at.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #817 of 836
I'm afraid of Sarah Palin.

Is it not possible that the same nation who elected George W Bush, a disgraceful man who fucked it all up for everyone, might elect Sarah Palin?

Sarah Palin is even less qualified and even less intelligent than George W Bush. She's like an ideologically muddled W.

So, yes, I'm afraid of her. I was similarly afraid of George Bush. I remember how awful it felt when he was elected the first time, and everyone chorused that he would fuck the world up. I remember seeing stencil graffiti with George Bush's face in London before 9/11.

Sarah Palin's worse and she might get elected.
post #818 of 836
edited for bad mood
post #819 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hassan i Sabbah View Post

I'm afraid of Sarah Palin.

Is it not possible that the same nation who elected George W Bush, a disgraceful man who fucked it all up for everyone, might elect Sarah Palin?

Sarah Palin is even less qualified and even less intelligent than George W Bush. She's like an ideologically muddled W.

So, yes, I'm afraid of her. I was similarly afraid of George Bush. I remember how awful it felt when he was elected the first time, and everyone chorused that he would fuck the world up. I remember seeing stencil graffiti with George Bush's face in London before 9/11.

Sarah Palin's worse and she might get elected.


++

My thoughts exactly. I don't understand why any liberal would root for her to get a presidential nomination. Anyone who snags a major party's nomination, no matter how awful a candidate, has a significant chance of victory. That's a game of russian roulette I do not want to play.
A good brain ain't diddly if you don't have the facts
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A good brain ain't diddly if you don't have the facts
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post #820 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flounder View Post

++

My thoughts exactly. I don't understand why any liberal would root for her to get a presidential nomination. Anyone who snags a major party's nomination, no matter how awful a candidate, has a significant chance of victory. That's a game of russian roulette I do not want to play.

Wouldn't you say the same thing then about keeping her in the limelight? People tend to choose what they know over what they don't. They go with a name sometimes for no other reason than that is what they happen to know.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #821 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Wouldn't you say the same thing then about keeping her in the limelight? People tend to choose what they know over what they don't. They go with a name sometimes for no other reason than that is what they happen to know.

Yes, I would. I have no desire to hear either praises or criticisms. I wish for her to go away.
A good brain ain't diddly if you don't have the facts
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A good brain ain't diddly if you don't have the facts
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post #822 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Isn't it curious how lately all the scandals involve Democrats but all the pictures depicting anything bad happening involve Democrats pretending to be Republicans?


http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/...mpt/index.html


Quote:
Sarah Palin's husband, aides found in contempt

Story Highlights
Todd Palin, nine aides found in contempt by Alaska Senate for failing to appear

The 10 won't be punished because they submitted statements, newspaper says

Legislature's "troopergate" investigation concerns firing of public safety chief



Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #823 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hassan i Sabbah View Post

I'm afraid of Sarah Palin.

Is it not possible that the same nation who elected George W Bush, a disgraceful man who fucked it all up for everyone, might elect Sarah Palin?

Sarah Palin is even less qualified and even less intelligent than George W Bush. She's like an ideologically muddled W.

So, yes, I'm afraid of her. I was similarly afraid of George Bush. I remember how awful it felt when he was elected the first time, and everyone chorused that he would fuck the world up. I remember seeing stencil graffiti with George Bush's face in London before 9/11.

Sarah Palin's worse and she might get elected.

The difference is that Bush was able to be packaged in such a way that he appealed to broad swaths of the electorate. Palin's appeal is to the GOP base, which is why McCain picked her.

The only way I see her winning national slot is if the entire country said "You know, that could be fun."
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #824 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Wouldn't you say the same thing then about keeping her in the limelight? People tend to choose what they know over what they don't. They go with a name sometimes for no other reason than that is what they happen to know.

The difference is that the more Palin speaks, the more people's notions of her as a moron are solidified. The obsession with following her is because she's a train wreck of ignorance and high school bitch. I say again, people followed Britney Spears' self-destruction, too.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #825 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter View Post

The difference is that the more Palin speaks, the more people's notions of her as a moron are solidified.

That may be true, but given enough practice even morons can sufficiently learn the talking point lingo and the names of world leaders. Just look at GWB. The GOP has shown a high ability to repackage people in the past.
A good brain ain't diddly if you don't have the facts
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A good brain ain't diddly if you don't have the facts
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post #826 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter View Post

The difference is that Bush was able to be packaged in such a way that he appealed to broad swaths of the electorate. Palin's appeal is to the GOP base, which is why McCain picked her.

The only way I see her winning national slot is if the entire country said "You know, that could be fun."

Again I disagree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter View Post

The difference is that the more Palin speaks, the more people's notions of her as a moron are solidified. The obsession with following her is because she's a train wreck of ignorance and high school bitch. I say again, people followed Britney Spears' self-destruction, too.

The reality is that she doesn't tear herself down and again, polls show she helped more than she hurt the ticket. People applauded her speeches which she could control. They laughed at the caricatures which she could not control and she didn't do as well with coverage which she cannot control either.

Also take your own example. Britney Spears by all accounts should be done. She had limited talent to begin with and played the Lolita angle more than producing good music. She should be a washed up, chain-smoking, cheetos eating, divorced two kid birthing footnote.

Yet she has a new album, a new tour and despite being completely batshit crazy, another chance because she is a known but damaged brand versus an unknown brand. BTW, that last album only sold 3 million copies so I guess she is probably done.

As usual, thanks for making my point for me.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #827 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Again I disagree.

Well, of course you do! You're the base.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #828 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Also take your own example. Britney Spears by all accounts should be done. She had limited talent to begin with and played the Lolita angle more than producing good music. She should be a washed up, chain-smoking, cheetos eating, divorced two kid birthing footnote.

You know that cunt is a conservative, don't you? Whether you or she knows it or not I mean.

Agree to disagree.
post #829 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post

You know that cunt is a conservative, don't you? Whether you or she knows it or not I mean.

Agree to disagree.

Would you prefer the "I smoked crack with Bobby Brown for ten years" Whitney Houston instead?

She can't sing the notes, she's 45 which is like 200 million in entertainment years, and why are we supposed to care again?

This coming from someone who actually tolerated Kevin Costner in a film just to see her in The Bodyguard.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #830 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flounder View Post

That may be true, but given enough practice even morons can sufficiently learn the talking point lingo and the names of world leaders. Just look at GWB. The GOP has shown a high ability to repackage people in the past.


Yes but you must remember the times we're in. We're currently living the aftermath of the last time people ignored the fact that they were listening to a moron.

Until that is over and long past people aren't likely to fall for the same bag of tricks anytime soon ( current painful memory ).

Palin is damaged goods. However Dick ( won't have him to kick around anymore ) Nixon ( who wasn't even anywhere near as damaged ) came back after his landslide loss. It took him almost 10 years however. I suspect by the time we get to the next election no one will be talking about Palin much.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #831 of 836
... August 29, 2008 for the POTUS election oF November 6, 2012, or 1,531 elapsed days, I thought I'd post a few links aboot all things Palin.

Otherwise known as "The Gift That Keeps On Giving" (TGTKOG);

Sarah Palin For President in 2012 (from the right)
Palin Watch (from the left)
Sarah Palin (from Wikipedia, purportedly neutral)

Picture of a gathering of idiots

Please continue to "support" Palin in her bid for POTUS in 2012.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #832 of 836
Anybody got a link to the theme song, Drill Here Drill Now?

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #833 of 836
Ahhh....

She pulled out of the dinner party at the last moment (heh, heh) and now signs a book deal for her memoirs...

http://www.adn.com/palin/story/793061.html

No amount known yet, promises to write on her own time (yeah while billing the state to work at home)... looks like this girl wants to run in 2012.

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply
post #834 of 836
Is this the part where we get to slam her for profiting off a book while promoting presidential aspirations?

Or is that just reserved for Democrats?
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #835 of 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Again I disagree.

As usual, thanks for making my point for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Again I disagree.

)

Wow, trumptman

You really drank the Ayn Rand koolaid. I finally read Atlas Shrugged, or rather got the audiobook of it, since it was such an influential book, but I have to say I was a bit disappointed. I mean Objectivism is an interesting philosophy and I admire M. Rand's intellect and incisive observations of the human condition, but it is such a narrowly defined philosophy that it forces its proponents to live in a black and white world just to get through the day without running face first into hypocracy.

I mean an entire ethical system based upon the perspective of junior high boys!

Here's my take on Atlas Shrugged and why Palin is not intellectually honest enough to be president. Atlas Shrugged is a typical myth - and interesting story that highlights some important truths, but just like the Illiad and Moby Dick and the Gita, it ultimately is fantasy.

1. The top 100 CEO's in corporate America could not live on their own in a mountain valley in CO even with a Star Trek invisibility ray! And even if they could, the entire world's economic system would not come crashing down. There are 100,000 people in NYC, Mumbai and Shanghai who could take their place.

2. The Wall Street collapse demonstrated that an under-regulated financial system run be "masters of the universe" can fall apart as quickly as the most inefficient government agency. Alan Greenspan, who knelt at Ms. Rand's feet, admitted in public and for all to see that he was wrong and that laissez faire economies don't regulate themselves. Game over, you can't ignore the Greenspan!

3. How can a bunch of CEO's in a valley build their own homes in a year or two and two guys run a copper mine and one engineer make a motor that is 100 times more efficient than anything else and has the added benefit of being able to read your intentions and if it doesn't like them, instantly turn itself into dust without the need for outside energy?!!?!? WTF, mate?!?!

4. Objectivism doesn't fit with Christianity. It amazes me that neo-cons can believe that they are fundamental Christians and yet believe that they are not their brothers' keeper. What part of the New Testament do they not understand. That is the ultimate hypocrasy or ignorance of the Hannity, O'Reilley,Glen Beck crowd that Palin seems to support. The problem is John Galt's oath spits in the face of Jesus Christ and the Sermon on the Mount and yet the conservative wing of the Repubs don't see it. You can't hold Atlas Shrugged in one hand and the Bible in the other and not be blind to the foundational contradiction!!

You can be a legitimate objectivist or a Christian and I would respect you, but you can't be both. Palin tries to be both.

5. Even Alaskans are not as independent and individualistic as they like to pretend. I am from Oregon, I travel and work in the NW and Alaska a lot and even though loggers, cattlemen, miners and fishermen live rewarding lives with concrete relationships to the land - they are as dependent upon Wall Street as the guy in the Manhattan news stand. Even the mythic cowboy only had a job as long as New Yorkers and Philly people demanded steak for dinner. Alaskans have balanced budget because they have oil, not because they are any more virtuous or hard working than anyone else.

6. Objectivism, like communism or libertarianism all have some good points, but in the end only work for small groups of people like families or clubs. All tend to fall apart or morph to unrealistic mutations when who societies are based upon them. Life is too complex to be guided merely by the narrow myopia of Atlas Shrugged.

So have your Tea Parties and pretend you are more patriotic and responsible than people on Medicare or those who feel responsible to save salmon. Just remember that the original Boston Tea Party was as much a revolt against the mercantilistic East India Company monopoly as it was against the King of England. Capitalism created the slave trade and government regulation was needed to stop it. No one is truly and island.

Palin is not unfit to be president because she is stupid or a conservative, she is unfit because she is not intellectually honest enough to see her own obvious contradictions and advantages.

Cheers

Oh, and the ends do not justify the means.
The Mother of all flip-flops!!
Support our troops by educating yourself and being a responsible voter. Democracy and Capitalism REQUIRE Intelligence and Wisdom if they are to be worth a damn beyond...
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The Mother of all flip-flops!!
Support our troops by educating yourself and being a responsible voter. Democracy and Capitalism REQUIRE Intelligence and Wisdom if they are to be worth a damn beyond...
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post #836 of 836
Don't hold your breath waiting for a reply.
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