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Apple, AT&T sued for over-saturating 3G network with iPhones - Page 2

post #41 of 95
..and now the North East has no data. Edge or 3G. Seems like they might onto something.

http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2008/...ave-a-problem/
post #42 of 95
You are only allowed to return the phone after 30 days. The service gradually declined as people bought more iPhones, so the people that had bought the first ones weren't aware of the problem.

THINK! {Personal Attack Deleted}

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohmaha View Post

No one "forces" you to do anything when it comes to cellphones. You can return it if you are unhappy with your service. Why do so many people act like spoiled brats when it comes to things like this? If your an adult act like one and be responsible for yourself and don't just sit there and whine! I guess you want the Government or someone else to come make it all better? Maybe kiss your bobo?
post #43 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by cygnusstar View Post

Here's to your argument :

Microsoft is paying $750M to settle the lawsuit in the EU because it was bundling the OS with IE. Doesn't this sound similar? I like the iPhone but I don't like AT&T Service. 3G Service should be guaranteed if you are charging a premium of $10 per month. How about Verizon selling the FiOS service for a premium but without a guarantee for the speed?

Except that MicroSoft was trying to put ALL other browsers out of business by abusing it's size and influence to squash them.
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post #44 of 95
Quote:
Gillis adds that none of Apple's packaging warns buyers of the current iPhone that its performance might not match customers' expectations

What a knob!!

I have read a lot of pending lawsuits against Apple on this forum so a question for you guys in the US if may. Does it cost this chap money to take Apple & AT&T to court over this or can he get legal aid to pursue his complaint??

In other words is the US the land of no win no fee??
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post #45 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

Don't you know? Economics is no longer the law of the land. Welcome to socialism....

apparently basic political science is also not a requirement for an education in the states... it's all down to 'talking points', eh?

post #46 of 95
I guess when you don't have a job in this Economy the best thing to do is just sit all day and write 18 page complaint.


Apple had me at scrolling
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Apple had me at scrolling
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post #47 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

A San Diego-based lawsuit filed late last week alleges that Apple and its carrier partner AT&T have knowingly oversold iPhone 3G, promising fast speeds only to see a glut of customers bog down the network with devices that themselves are flawed.

The 18-page complaint from customer William Gillis primarily relies on Internet reports of problems as the foundation of its argument and asserts that leaked information contradicts public statements by either of the defendant companies regarding 3G network performance.

Gillis particularly criticizes AT&T. Although company new media representative Brad Mays has gone on record as saying the iPhone 3G has been "performing great" on its 3G network, the plaintiff counters by pointing to claims that the handset has required too much power. In tandem with the "high volume" of iPhones sold, the sheer signal demand has bombarded AT&T and in many cases kicks users down to the EDGE-based 2G network even when 3G coverage is guaranteed, according to the lawsuit.

Apple and AT&T also misled customers about the practical speed of EDGE with the first iPhone, Gillis also claims, though here he points to ads exaggerating the speed rather than technical issues.

And while Apple chief Steve Jobs is believed to have sent a direct e-mail to one iPhone 3G user confirming a bug fix for the software end of the problem sometime in September, Gillis adds that none of Apple's packaging warns buyers of the current iPhone that its performance might not match customers' expectations.

A disclaimer "points out to them to ask questions, to futher investigate, or [for companies] to simply disclose complete and accurate information about the product," the lawsuit reads. "This is especially true in the case of the speed and performance of an expensive [device]; an important feature in any electronics device purchase."

Since many customers are potentially affected by the alleged flaws in AT&T's network and its interaction with Apple's phone, Gillis is seeking class action status so that every AT&T subscriber in California plagued by slow or intermittent performance -- which could measure into the "thousands" -- can earn compensation if they've suffered through a sub-par 3G experience.

The complaint would have Apple and AT&T pay this restitution as well as punitive damages. Both firms would also be stopped from pursuing the same marketing and public relations tactics that triggered the filing, which demands a jury trial.

Neither Apple nor AT&T has publicly commented on the lawsuit, which is the second lawsuit in as many weeks concerning the same performance hiccups.

Just spoke with AT&T Support. 3g/2g data is 'completely down' for iPhone...somewhat poetic in light of this legal development.

Dig my new iPhone but would like to get stuff like email and an occasional Vicinity search at least once a day. Frustrating.

Happy to be on Apple Insider!
post #48 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by papiti View Post

Yeah, and by the way, if you call AT&T and Apple they would have probably canceled your contract, and Apple would have certainly refunded for your phone.


if you did it in the first 30 days, they would do it without a flinch. perhaps just a heads up about losing your phone number if it is still on the iphone.

after the 30 days, ATT might have stuck you with the ETF (which is still legal for the moment), but Apple would probably have waived the restock fee, especially if it was just over the 30 days, just to keep you from having a hissy in the middle of a crowded store.

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

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post #49 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

No it's not the same you morons because you're not paying a monthly fee to use the road.

AT&T forces users to pay an extra $10 a month to use the 3G service which I'm not able to access 90% of the time.


so you go after ATT for overpricing issues. but to go after Apple without solid proof that the cause is the phone (and not just ATT's network) is a bit much.

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post #50 of 95
AT&T will ask that this lawsuit be dismissed on national security grounds, just out of reflex, after all the wiretapping lawsuits.
post #51 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohmaha View Post

No one "forces" you to do anything when it comes to cellphones. You can return it if you are unhappy with your service. Why do so many people act like spoiled brats when it comes to things like this?


you'll love this.

I was in a local Apple store and saw a young sales person (a girl as it was) about to ring up a "gentleman" for an iphone. he is going on and on ranting and raving about ATT. bad service, bad network, too expensive, nickel and diming their customers. clearly he hated ATT (there was some mentions of Verizon so I'm guessing that was his current service)

this girl smiles at him and without a hint of anything negative in her voice says something along the lines of "here at Apple we always want our customers to be happy with a purchase and would never force or even encourage someone to buy something that would result in an unpleasant experience. So my advice to you sir is to not buy the iphone. It requires service with ATT, which you do not want to have and from your comments feel will not be satisfactory to you. Come back in a couple of years when ATT is not longer the only carrier for the phone and perhaps Verizon will be one of the carriers and then you can get exactly what you want."

so basically she's telling him to piss off. And he did. he shrugged and walked out, without getting mad at her. I guess the Elle Woods grin on her face was the trick. it was amazing.

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

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post #52 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

Don't you know? Economics is no longer the law of the land. Welcome to socialism.... Lawsuits and politics make sure there is a chicken in every pot, forget about supply and demand.

Do you call it socialism when corporations sue each other for *gasp* restitution? I gotta say, it's amazing how many on this board is just plain dishonest or dumb.
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post #53 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

I was in a local Apple store and saw a young sales person (a girl as it was)...

Good answer! How old was she?
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post #54 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacNProud View Post

Just spoke with AT&T Support. 3g/2g data is 'completely down' for iPhone.

How and why is only down for the iPhone in your area. It's hunky dory in my area.
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post #55 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by cygnusstar View Post

Here's to your argument :

Microsoft is paying $750M to settle the lawsuit in the EU because it was bundling the OS with IE. Doesn't this sound similar? I like the iPhone but I don't like AT&T Service. 3G Service should be guaranteed if you are charging a premium of $10 per month. How about Verizon selling the FiOS service for a premium but without a guarantee for the speed?

It doesn't matter if it's similar. EU law and court decisions have 0 bearing on US law and court decisions.
post #56 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbonner View Post

It really dilutes your argument when you have to include a personal attack.

Only if you get emotional. If you read the entirety of his argument logically, then it's just as effective. Thus the problem becomes yours, not his. And I found his argument compelling--if you pay for a service and it does not act as advertised, then the seller should be held accountable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jameskatt2

There needs to be a law which gives the death penalty for lawyers who file frivolous lawsuits like this. This is suing for suing's sake.

It's very comforting to know that someone should die because your opinion differs from theirs. Go on any crusades lately?
post #57 of 95
[QUOTE=bdkennedy1;1301938]You are only allowed to return the phone after 30 days. The service gradually declined as people bought more iPhones, so the people that had bought the first ones weren't aware of the problem.



Following up your valid point with a childish playground personal attack is a great way to completely negate your valid point. No one takes you seriously if you post like a 4-year-old sailor.
post #58 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

How and why is only down for the iPhone in your area. It's hunky dory in my area.

It's not just his area. AT&T data networks in the entire NorthEast U.S. were down for at least 4 hours today: http://www.tuaw.com/2008/09/03/phone...oure-not-alone
post #59 of 95
I want to know the name of the low life scum who took this case. I want to send him hate mail and maybe blow up his house.
post #60 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktappe View Post

It's not just his area. AT&T data networks in the entire NorthEast U.S. were down for at least 4 hours today: http://www.tuaw.com/2008/09/03/phone...oure-not-alone

The OP made it sound like it's just iPhones, not all AT&T phones.
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post #61 of 95
I have an iPhone 3G. I also had the first iPhone. I love my new iPhone 3G and haven't ever had any problems with it beyond the need to reboot it every once in a while, which was the type of bug to be expected with a new product until firmware updates are released. It was better to have the new 3G and wait for the bug fixes than to wait for the 3G and the bug fixes.

However, I'd be really pissed if I bought the iPhone 3G, used it extensively during the trial-purchase period, and then after it got to the point where I could no longer return the iPhone 3G and cancel the contract, I found that the iPhone 3G was experiencing the connectivity issues people are claiming, and making it a product that I would've returned.

The problem of course is that lawsuits like this usually only benefit the lawyers. For example, the fair solution would be to extend return policy and penalty-free contract cancellation period so that people could get out if they wanted at this point.

However, the lawyers don't benefit from this. So instead, they'll sue for $$$, and if they win, years from now, early buyers of the iPhone 3G will be receiving a coupon or check for a tiny fraction of the overall settlement. Worse, people like me who are totally content and not experiencing problems would be just as eligible for the compensation. Most likely, I'd find myself counting towards the settlement (which isn't fair to AT&T/Apple), but if I decline to take the compensation, the money would go to the lawyers.
post #62 of 95
Man! These blood-sucking leeches on society piss me off so much I couldn't even finish reading the article.
post #63 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmc6000 View Post

..."even when 3G coverage is guaranteed"
Umm - when the heck did either Apple or AT&T ever guarantee 3G coverage? Are they going to file a class action suit for every other phone on the planet that doens't hold a signal 100% of the time? If anything he might have a case against AT&T but not Apple.

I can only say one thing...you, Americans, are by far the masters of frivolous lawsuits. As an international lawyer myself, I can state that nowhere else can we see such degree of greed and stupidity behind almost every class-action or even individual initiative by citizens...and the commercial approach allowed to legal professionals is just food for unethical behavior.

You guys REALLY need to put things into perspective and start accepting responsibility for what you do as individuals...to blame networks or especially Apple for "slower" performance arising from widespread adoption of a single phone model is the same as suing Volkswagen for traffic jams caused by ubiquitous Beetles...it's just ridiculous.

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post #64 of 95
(1) yes, i am an unapologetic apple zealot.

(2) yes, i bought a 3g iphone (but only grabbed it at that time because there was no line).

(3) yes, i experienced the same problems every one else did.

(4) yes, i called apple tech support.

(5) yes, i had an appointment with a genius and his bar.

(6) no, they did not fix the problems.

(7) yes, i returned the iphone.

(8) yes, i wrote to apple.

(9) yes, i received two phone calls from the apple executive offices "on behalf of steve jobs".

(10) yes, i think the iphone and the at&t network is over-marketed.

(11) yes, i will buy a 3g iphone again, once things have settled down.

(12) no, i did not file a lawsuit.
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post #65 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooch View Post

(1) yes, i am an unapologetic apple zealot.

(2) yes, i bought a 3g iphone (but only grabbed it at that time because there was no line).

(3) yes, i experienced the same problems every one else did.

(4) yes, i called apple tech support.

(5) yes, i had an appointment with a genius and his bar.

(6) no, they did not fix the problems.

(7) yes, i returned the iphone.

(8) yes, i wrote to apple.

(9) yes, i received two phone calls from the apple executive offices "on behalf of steve jobs".

(10) yes, i think the iphone and the at&t network is over-marketed.

(11) yes, i will buy a 3g iphone again, once things have settled down.

(12) no, i did not file a lawsuit.

Excellent!
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post #66 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Underhill View Post

What a knob!!

I have read a lot of pending lawsuits against Apple on this forum so a question for you guys in the US if may. Does it cost this chap money to take Apple & AT&T to court over this or can he get legal aid to pursue his complaint??

In other words is the US the land of no win no fee??

Generally, lawyers will take on a lawsuit for free if they are certain they will win. Usually the majority of the winnings then go to the lawyers and then the plaintiff gets something like a coupon for $10 off their next purchase from Apple.
post #67 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

No it's not the same you morons because you're not paying a monthly fee to use the road.

AT&T forces users to pay an extra $10 a month to use the 3G service which I'm not able to access 90% of the time.

Um, I don't know where you live, but here in Ontario, I pay an annual license fee, plus every time I fill up at the pump, a good portion of the price I pay for gas includes taxes which go towards paying for road infrastructure. On top of that, I pay sales tax, property tax AND income tax, portions of which are also helping to fund the roadways in one way or another at the municipal, provincial and federal levels.

Who do you think is paying for all those roads?
post #68 of 95
I could help but come to that conclusion, there are just to many feeble minds in willing to deal with life. I wouldn't be surprised if this guy isn't part of the Obama entitlement culture. That is cry, whine and sue if things don't go your way.

As to 3G I've not had much in the way of problems until last night and that was an acknowledged network fault. Sometimes things are a bit slow from work but you no what it is a $&@$ network and networks are subject to loading. Even when I'm out of 3G range EDGE still works fine.

Now I'm not here to say the iPhone is in any way perfect, it is not and has obviously been rushed to market. As far as those faults go I suspect that I've seen on my device every one mentioned on line. Given all of that it is still the best cell phone / micro computer I've ever had. Notably iPhone is faster than most of the computers I've had.

Frankly I just don't get it, have these people not a clue? Or backbone for that matter. It is a fundamental reality that networks can become loaded down, if for some reason you don't understand that then switch to a network with fewer customers.

It is not like the cell companies are continually updating their networks. They do so constantly often responding to areas of congestion. Well when they can. Part of the problem with the networks is more people like mister sue happy here making it difficult for the cell companies to expand tower coverage. One of the grosses realities these days in America is that you have the same idiots that are demanding better cell service creating the conditions that make delivery of better services all but impossible. It really is a shame that so many people flunk the basic sciences in the US and live in ignorance the rest of their lives.

Dave
post #69 of 95
Just another leach of a lawyer looking for easy money.
post #70 of 95
(i posted this on a different forum about the same subject)

i have decided to sue Ford, GM, Toyota and Honda, for selling too many cars. it has ruined road conditions that i can't drive comfortably without hitting pot holes etc. as well, my car says i can drive up to and over 200 km per hour but the roads do not allow me to travel that fast. in fact, i am suing the government for capping speeds on the road, and not allowing me to travel at the maximum velocity that my car can travel. i am also suing the car companies for selling too many cars, that causing the gas shortage, and rise in gas prices.
post #71 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlanganki View Post

Generally, lawyers will take on a lawsuit for free if they are certain they will win.

Lawyers will take on a case like this if they have even a decent chance of winning (it's an odds thing - if they have a 50% chance of winning $2 billion, it's worth putting in quite a few hours).

Even worse, lawyers will take on a case like this if they think they can blackmail a company into settling - even if they have little or no chance of winning.
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post #72 of 95
The legal system in this country is seriously screwed up in regards to tort.
post #73 of 95
He forgot to put a disclaimer in his lawsuit that he is a dickhead. I feel wronged.
post #74 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGNR8 View Post

Morons?

Thats funny...

So how do you use a road or highway or road for free?

I want in on that racket.

Last I checked I have to pay for tag's on my truck and car with emission testing fee's that goes right back to TXDOT which pay's for roads and highway's.

Then on top of that Toll-way's in Houston that being built now that were once major arteries with in the city as roads.

i.e. Westpark (Tollway) Hardy Road (Tollway) Beltway 8 (Tollway) SH249 (Future Tollway according to the state posted signs)

So a monthly fee your right, no monthly fee.
However a fee all the same is charged on roadways and highways at a yearly rate and per use.

Just need to think it thru next time before you start throwing around the "Morons" statement.

Does all that make since, Moron.

Beautifully said! Now we know the "moron" who made the original comment isn't paying taxes or vehicle registration fees! He probably doesn't have insurance either.
post #75 of 95
I love how the lawsuit is allegedly based on internet reports! What a dumbfuck plaintiff and dumbfuck lawyer. If they believe what they read on the internet, they are truly a stupid pair! Sounds like the jackass doesn't even own the iPhone! My friend has an iPhone 3G, I have the original. Both work great, and work as advertised! The 3G speed is about 2x faster than Edge. Signal level was great in Los Angeles, and only took a second to find a 3G signal, and the phone was running OS 2.0.1! My friend uses the phone on Edge 99% of the time for battery savings and switches to 3G whenever needed.

Basically, it sounds like most people ran out and bought the phone without even checking AT&T's coverage map for 3G service. As all the ads have clearly stated, 3G not available in all areas! These dipshits need withdraw their lawsuits, or sue every cell phone provider and hardware maker if they are going to make these bullshit allegations.
post #76 of 95
First off, stop with the generalities about lawyers. I thought there was a rule about hurling insults? It is my profession, as it is with others on this board, so chill. I don't think anyone wants to be insulted because of their chosen profession. As far as lawyers go, there are plenty out there that live up to the terrible reputation, but not all of us. It is funny how people will criticize a criminal defense attorney until he or she successfully defends someone you think is innocent. All of a sudden, they are worthy of Atticus Finch level of respect. It is all relative.

You must also note, Apple will be hiring these same attorneys to defend this, and other actions. Because they defend Apple are they above such criticism? Maybe Apple should not hire any attorneys, thus no longer supporting the legal community and all lawyers will simply go away.

As far as bringing in Apple into the lawsuit, it makes sense. I am not agreeing with the complaint as I have not seen any supporting documentation, however, Apple sells the product that has the AT&T service on it. You can't unlock the 3G iPhone. This product is packed with several services. Remember, AT&T authorized Apple employees to create AT&T accounts. They are inextricably linked as defendants. The retailer is ultimately responsible for a failed product. Even if that means that the product is performing, but the service provider is underperforming. There is a partnership that Apple cannot escape. The product was "designed" to work "twice as fast" on this network. Implied warranties are a common law mainstay. Goods fit for a particular purpose is an implied warranty. If the sheer volume of iPhone, whether twenty or twenty millon of them, cause the network they operate on to falter, then the iPhone, to a certain degree, in its design, is at fault for that failure, just as AT&T capacity to service a high number of iPhones.

This is the possible argument that can be made. It is not necessarily the right one, but there is some logic to it. Stop being so defensive when it comes to Apple. I love their products, but don't tell me that Jobs is any different than Gates. He just puts out a slicker product.
post #77 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Lawyers will take on a case like this if they have even a decent chance of winning (it's an odds thing - if they have a 50% chance of winning $2 billion, it's worth putting in quite a few hours).

Even worse, lawyers will take on a case like this if they think they can blackmail a company into settling - even if they have little or no chance of winning.

Extortion is a crime. Some lawyers play dirty, but will not engage in anything that will destroy their livelihood. Contingency fees, which you seem to know a lot about, but not exactly what they are called, is not an industry standard. Retainer agreements differ from client to client and attorney to attorney. Once again, let what you see on t.v. make your mind up about the legal system, but there is a lot more to it.
post #78 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlanganki View Post

Generally, lawyers will take on a lawsuit for free if they are certain they will win. Usually the majority of the winnings then go to the lawyers and then the plaintiff gets something like a coupon for $10 off their next purchase from Apple.

Genius, usually a contingency fee is 1/3. The majority does not go to the attorney. Depending on the level of culpability of the defendant, the defendant might have to pay attorneys fees. IE: a federal minimum wage violation case won $750,000.00 for 12 employees of a restaurant. The attorney's fees for $899,000.00 that were to be paid by the defendants. If you are going to be snarky, be right.
post #79 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

Welcome to socialism.... Lawsuits and politics make sure there is a chicken in every pot, forget about supply and demand.

In more "socialist" societies governments protect companies from these sorts of lawsuits by capping pay outs or just not allowing them. I think it was New Zealand that had a cap on law suits of just a few hundred thousand dollars (I could be wrong).

So no, this is not socialism, this is the new capitalism. Company gets rich, people file ambit law suits and attempt to gain revenue either through the courts or by settlement. These lawsuits are a business and a big one. Pure capitalism.
post #80 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSummerNight View Post

..and now the North East has no data. Edge or 3G. Seems like they might onto something.

http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2008/...ave-a-problem/

YUP... I bet the lawyers are rejoicing right about now... Sending emails to each other and what not, using their iPho... oh wait, er... BlackBerry.
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