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Third lawsuit joins into complaints about iPhone 3G speeds, bugs

post #1 of 67
Thread Starter 
Now seemingly popping out of the woodwork, a spate of lawsuits accusing Apple and AT&T of misleading over iPhone 3G's data speeds have been joined by a New Jersey class action filing that also questions app reliability.

The 32-page complaint by state resident Eulardi Tanseco was filed the same day as a San Diego-based suit with similar ambitions.

Like that plaintiff, Tanseco asserts that he and many other buyers were deceived into buying an iPhone 3G expecting the "twice as fast" Internet performance advertised by Apple and AT&T, only to find himself rarely connecting to the 3G network and often experiencing service drops. Many of these followed the same pseudo-random behavior that occurs no matter how strong AT&T's 3G coverage might be.

"Unfortunately, even when [he] was able to connect via the 3G protocol... even while remaining in the same physical location, [his] call or data transmission was dropped from the 3G protocol to the much slower EDGE protocol," the lawsuit explains.

Relying in part on "online blogs'" reports on the drops as proof, Tanseco and his legal team believe Apple and AT&T violated New Jersey's Consumer Fraud Act, its Uniform Commercial Code and the terms of its contract by advertising service they at some point knew they couldn't maintain.

He also accuses Apple in particular of failing to disclose the existence of numerous "defective" third-party apps on the App Store, many of which refuse to load, and of a less frequent problem where music purchased from the iTunes Wi-Fi Music Store on the iPhone itself would refuse to play until he first synced it back to the iPhone's host computer, deleted it from the phone, and then resynchronized to copy it back.

Tanseco also doesn't believe Apple statements that the recent iPhone 2.0.2 update would resolve 3G issues and other flaws, insisting that the new firmware has had no effect on his experience.

The plaintiff demands that Apple and AT&T pay both compensation and punitive damages in addition to halting its allegedly misleading marketing practices. Since as many as three million iPhone 3G devices have been sold since July, according to the claims, the suit necessitates a class action status to address problems by a group that would be far too large to satisfy one-by-one.

Apple in its historical form has declined to comment on the lawsuit and has so far only made unofficial pledges to fix both the connection and software bugs in a more permanent fashion with a September iPhone update.

It's clear that Tanseco and his lawyers are aware of the mounting pressure on Apple to resolve its problems, however: as part of the New Jersey filing, the party acknowledges the existence of the original Alabama lawsuit from Jessica Smith that first drew legal attention to the newer iPhone's performance problems.
post #2 of 67
It is always nice to see lawyers engaged in meaningful work.

What ever happened to the days when you didn't like something, you just returned it and went on with your life?
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post #3 of 67
I wouldn't be surprised if the plaintiff of this lawsuit didn't even have an iphone , but feels entitled to thousands of dollars just incase he gets one. the stability of his Ibeer or i-light app is very important!
post #4 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by ByronVanArsdale View Post

What ever happened to the days when you didn't like something, you just returned it and went on with your life?

Hear! Hear!

The irony is that if the problems were that serious, and everyone returned their iPhones instead of filing lawsuits, Apple/AT&T would doubtlessly fix the problems a hell of a lot faster.
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post #5 of 67
The phone has been out just over a month.

Apple and AT&T have been fixing issues as they come up.

They Apple ad says that it's twice as fast as Edge which it is.

The plaintiffs in these suites are gold diggers just out to make a buck. They most they should get is their money back. They have no right to get more than that. They have suffered no harm.
post #6 of 67
Whatever happened to penalizing attorneys and plaintiffs for filing frivolous lawsuits?
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post #7 of 67
Twice as fast != twice as reliable.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Timon View Post

The Apple ad says that it's twice as fast as Edge which it is.

At least twice as fst on average. Apple is the only cellphone seller that I know of that isn't specing out the 3G radios are being 7.2Mbps.
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post #8 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by justflybob View Post

Whatever happened to penalizing attorneys and plaintiffs for filing frivolous lawsuits?

Apple is coming out with a new 64-bit app for Snow Leopard called iKarma to deal with this very issue. Due to the extent of the problem (think fractal theory), they decided to use 64-bit so they'd have enough processing power to handle the job!
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post #9 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Relying in part on "online blogs'" reports on the drops as proof, Tanseco and his legal team believe...

I have a megawatt handheld cold fusion reactor.
post #10 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Relying in part on "online blogs'" reports on the drops as proof

Now there is a proper expert witness if I have ever seen one :-)
post #11 of 67
I like how he sues Apple because some developer had a bug in their third-party app. Does he sue PC Connection for his bugs in Windows?
post #12 of 67
As a CPA-I have the misfortune of dealing with them more than I would care to.

Why is it in America we for some reason think we are ENTITLED to happiness and perfection?

If you don't like the damn thing-return it-good Gawd, like a stack of Ben Franklins is really going to solve anything? Make it faster?

And the fact is, most of these class action suits, the "class" gets like $12.95 while the legal counsel gets 7 or 8 digit compensation.

And, everyone pays more so some blood sucking ambulance chasers can live in Cape Cod.
post #13 of 67
I think that companies should be sued for bugs within weeks of a product's release. It would be fun to see how Microsoft, Adobe and every PC game company fares in that case
post #14 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

The plaintiff demands that Apple and AT&T pay both compensation and punitive damages

Let me translate this...it's New Jersey lego-shakedown-speak that really means:

"The plaintiff demands that Apple and AT&T pay both compensation and punitive damages to a few lawyers and iPhone users get 2 cents off their next purchase of any Apple product."
post #15 of 67
Good.
post #16 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

Good.

Bad!

OK, your turn.
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post #17 of 67
Am not happy with apple getting sue but am also from NJ and i also live in a good 3G coverage area and although my phone has good signal, i haven't been able to use 3G at all, but that doesn't mean AT&T has stop billing me for it. Nice phone and all but if the next update doesn't fix the problem, it will be sold on ebay to cover all the ETFs and going back to verizon, and ohh why did i sell my first gen??? O well
post #18 of 67
Mr. Tanseco is going to his ass handed to him in court...wait and see.
post #19 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraklinc View Post

Am not happy with apple getting sue but am also from NJ and i also live in a good 3G coverage area and although my phone has good signal, i haven't been able to use 3G at all, but that doesn't mean AT&T has stop billing me for it. Nice phone and all but if the next update doesn't fix the problem, it will be sold on ebay to cover all the ETFs and going back to verizon, and ohh why did i sell my first gen??? O well


I'm glad I didn't sell my 1st Gen phone because the 3G is going back & I'm out $30 bucks for the restocking fee. Glad to be rid of it and back to 1.1.4 that was stable.

I don't agree with the lawsuit but the phone it isn't worth the trouble & having GPS with no turn by turn diections is a joke.
post #20 of 67
Seriously I've had just about all the issues seen on line but it is still the best damn micro computer on the market. A good iPhone too.

Personally I get very good transfer rates even at times when I'm on edge. Oh by the way my mind is developed a bit more than a boy from Jersey so I understand things like coverage, distance from towers, fallback and other realities of RF communications.

Frankly I think these people are idiots. It be like me complaining about my old phone when it was out of range of a tower. Stuff happens and sometimes you just end up on a congested network.

Dave
post #21 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by ByronVanArsdale View Post

It is always nice to see lawyers engaged in meaningful work.
What ever happened to the days when you didn't like something, you just returned it and went on with your life?

Today I did an about-face and have decided I completely support these lawsuits. The 3G connectivity from my iPhone is unacceptable. I have a consistent 5 bars of 3G in my office at work yet the 3G data rate is more often zero (cannot connect to anything) than it is connected. It's random, it's annoying, and it's unacceptable.

You ask why I don't return the phone. Because my return period has passed--I cannot do so. I'm locked in now. Unless you're willing to pay out the remainder of my AT&T contract for the next 22 months and give me $400 back for my iPhone, shut up. Seriously--shut up. I'm having real 3G problems and you making fun of the situation is making it worse not better. Be constructive or keep your wisecracks to yourself.
post #22 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigmafan420 View Post

Why is it in America we for some reason think we are ENTITLED to happiness and perfection?

Because I'm paying $2000 for the phone and 2 years of the contract, and my return period is expired so I have no option to return it? I'm sorry if that extremely simple concept has somehow eluded you.
post #23 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktappe View Post

You ask why I don't return the phone. Because my return period has passed--I cannot do so. I'm locked in now. Unless you're willing to pay out the remainder of my AT&T contract for the next 22 months and give me $400 back for my iPhone, shut up. Seriously--shut up. I'm having real 3G problems and you making fun of the situation is making it worse not better. Be constructive or keep your wisecracks to yourself.

So your issues started after your full month grace period ended? If that is the case, then why would think it's okay to sue Apple if the device was working fine. If you think something has broken in the phone you have a 12 month warranty on it. If it was happening for the the 4.3 weeks you first had it why did you not return it?
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post #24 of 67
I live in san diego (site of 2nd lawsuit) and just ran the cnet bandwidth test on my iphone 3g ...
164 kbps on edge
299kbps on 3g

(both test were ran from my couch with full bars on edge and 2 bars on 3g)

IM GONNA SUE!!!! THEY ADVERTISED IPHONE 3G IS 2X AS FAST .... ITS ONLY 1.82X AS FAST! IVE BEED DECEIVED AND WRONGED BY APPLE.
post #25 of 67
I just ran a speed test in Philadelphia...
131 Kbps on EDGE
492 Kbps on 3G

Thats just not right, I only paid for a device that was twice as fast as EDGE, not 3.75 times as fast... I should probably sue too.

Granted there are times when neither EDGE or 3G data seem to work, but I realize that I am in a city filled with smart phones that consume wireless data bandwidth and as such it is simply a natural result of sharing this fair planet with other people who crave the internet in their pocket. Not to mention I would realize that Apple isn't the company responsible for the towers and actual service, the company who gets the monthly fortune is responsible.

Anyways, do I have a case for false advertising?

-Scott
post #26 of 67
In these contracts there is a trial period. If the phone or the network does not perform as advertised, the phone can be returned and the contract cancelled. Simple as that.

Just about every phone company has some kind of coverage deficit... or a particular phone does not work perfect. People return all the time.

What we got here here are the blood sucking leeches... I mean lawyers. The legal system allows them to sue anybody. There is no penalty for frivolous suits. Counter suing lawyers is difficulty... better have deep pockets.

Look who runs our governments... no engineers, no successful businessmen/women, no physicians, etc. Just lawyers. What happened to tort reform?
post #27 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktappe View Post

Today I did an about-face and have decided I completely support these lawsuits. The 3G connectivity from my iPhone is unacceptable. I have a consistent 5 bars of 3G in my office at work yet the 3G data rate is more often zero (cannot connect to anything) than it is connected. It's random, it's annoying, and it's unacceptable.

You ask why I don't return the phone. Because my return period has passed--I cannot do so. I'm locked in now. Unless you're willing to pay out the remainder of my AT&T contract for the next 22 months and give me $400 back for my iPhone, shut up. Seriously--shut up. I'm having real 3G problems and you making fun of the situation is making it worse not better. Be constructive or keep your wisecracks to yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

So your issues started after your full month grace period ended? If that is the case, then why would think it's okay to sue Apple if the device was working fine. If you think something has broken in the phone you have a 12 month warranty on it. If it was happening for the the 4.3 weeks you first had it why did you not return it?

I was wondering the same thing, you've read my mind

I only experienced the 3G dropped call issue once last weekend in Dallas while I was in a parking lot inside my car. The iPhone refused to connect but guess what? I left my car and 6 ft away it works perfect. Additionally, I used to get Edge service only in my hotel room, which have a full glass exterior wall, while full 3G coverage in the hotel parking. I think the issue has to do with AT&T network not the iPhone itself (at least since the 2.0.2 update).
post #28 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktappe View Post

It's random, it's annoying, and it's unacceptable.

I am on the fence about these lawsuits. I would like to know what else has been done in terms of approaching ATT, or what CAN be done. The litigious approach to dealing with problems doesn't sit well with me when it comes to gadgets, even if they are essential gadgets. Having said that I think people are little quick to jump all over these people. I can totally relate to the frustration of being sold a service that simply does not work. It is unacceptable and ATT should hand back the money charged to all clients who are paying for a service not working as advertised. Likewise, if the problem lies with the hardware, Apple should refund. End of story. How hard is it to ascertain whether it is the phone or the service (for each client)? And once proven, don't consumers have the right to refunds? It is not just about refunds, though. These days we live by email and web services, whether through cell phones or cable or whatever. From experience it may be true that it is unwise to leave trusted services behind and jump to a new service / product, but it is hardly a defence for poor implementation. People rely on ATT services and Apple products in a profound way. A lot is at stake (have you ever lost your cell? Experienced the pain when mail servers break?) and so when ATT or Apple or whoever bring a new product to the market and make promises through advertising campaigns they should be held accountable. Like the mobileMe debacle, if I had lost most of my email I would have expected SJ himself to come to my house and apologize profusely. It would have been that freaking serious. Yeah, I back up but if I had been out of the country on business... I would have imploded.
Maybe the answer is for all these advertisements to carry long and wordy disclaimers like the medical ads? Ouch!
post #29 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktappe View Post

Because I'm paying $2000 for the phone and 2 years of the contract, and my return period is expired so I have no option to return it? I'm sorry if that extremely simple concept has somehow eluded you.

Yeah it eluded me... loser...
post #30 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by AjitMD View Post


What we got here here are the blood sucking leeches... I mean lawyers. The legal system allows them to sue anybody. There is no penalty for frivolous suits. Counter suing lawyers is difficulty... better have deep pockets.

Look who runs our governments... no engineers, no successful businessmen/women, no physicians, etc. Just lawyers. What happened to tort reform?

QFT.

These worthless ambulance chasers are ruining our country, driving up the cost of services and products that we buy, and in general, helping make this country more miserable to live in everyday.

Today's scumbag lawyers are a travesty, and have turned a once honorable profession into the most despised sub-species of humankind.
post #31 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigmafan420 View Post

If you don't like the damn thing-return it-good Gawd, like a stack of Ben Franklins is really going to solve anything? Make it faster?


no joke. and if you happen to be beyond the 30 days, you just scream and yell and Apple will give you the full refund with no restocking fee and ATT will waive the ETF just to get rid of you

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post #32 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktappe View Post

Today I did an about-face and have decided I completely support these lawsuits. The 3G connectivity from my iPhone is unacceptable. I have a consistent 5 bars of 3G in my office at work yet the 3G data rate is more often zero (cannot connect to anything) than it is connected. It's random, it's annoying, and it's unacceptable.

You ask why I don't return the phone. Because my return period has passed--I cannot do so. I'm locked in now. Unless you're willing to pay out the remainder of my AT&T contract for the next 22 months and give me $400 back for my iPhone, shut up. Seriously--shut up. I'm having real 3G problems and you making fun of the situation is making it worse not better. Be constructive or keep your wisecracks to yourself.

Sorry, but return the phone and if you complain enough to AT&T (just like any other cell provider), they will give you a refund with no penalty. They do it all the time. Did you ever think about exchanging the phone for another one under the WARRANTY? Maybe if your phone has a full signal, but no data rate, your phone is not working properly. So how does your phone work OUTSIDE of your office??? Maybe it is your building that is blocking a signal, not the phone! If your phone works everywhere except your office, than you are just as stupid as the other idiot plaintiffs starting these lawsuits.

I had a phone with Sprint. When I moved, the phone didn't work at my new home, but worked everywhere else. Did I sue them? Hell no! I went with another carrier! No one forced you to buy the iPhone 3G the day it came out. Maybe you should have waited to see how things panned out, or maybe check the 3G coverage in your area before you buy the phone. I bet other 3G phones don't work in your office either! By the way, the iPhone 3G does work as advertised. I have seen many of them that work just fine, and the 3G is twice as fast as Edge. Also, there was NEVER a guarantee of 3G coverage for all areas! So good luck on supporting these lawsuits that are full of shit.
post #33 of 67
We have, to be sure, become a nation of whiners. Pathetic, thumb-sucking, tantrum-throwing whiners. What more needs--or can--be said of this once-proud country. Litigation R Us.
post #34 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktappe View Post

Because I'm paying $2000 for the phone and 2 years of the contract, and my return period is expired so I have no option to return it? I'm sorry if that extremely simple concept has somehow eluded you.

If you were dumb enough to pay $2000 for an iPhone, you basically got screwed in the ass. Or are you just trying to make another stupid point? Return your phone and exchange it under warranty and see if another one gives you the same problems. However, I am guessing your phone works great everywhere except your office, so you want to whine like a little baby because you can't surf the internet instead of doing your job at the office.
post #35 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

I only experienced the 3G dropped call issue once last weekend in Dallas while I was in a parking lot inside my car. The iPhone refused to connect but guess what? I left my car and 6 ft away it works perfect. Additionally, I used to get Edge service only in my hotel room, which have a full glass exterior wall, while full 3G coverage in the hotel parking. I think the issue has to do with AT&T network not the iPhone itself (at least since the 2.0.2 update).

We were having problems at the office. 3G did connect, but sometimes the phone didn't ring (we'd just get a message), people complained about not being able to hear us talk, and calls occasionally dropped.

We switched to 2G and all was fine.
Now, on 2.02, we're back on 3G and it's working fine, which is great to see. It's not perfect, but working well enough.

I've probably mentioned 15 times in various forums that our 3G iPhone connection was unreliable, as I sought to find ways around it - but since it's been fixed I've had no reason to mention it. And lawyers are using comments like mine as evidence of a problem? Hardly representative.
post #36 of 67
Nothing to negative to say about iPhone at all. It won't connect to 3g inside my office which is inside a building which has a lot of steel exposed so I go outside and it's fine. Occasionally I'll download an app which crashes so I delete it and all is well. Sometimes a call is a bit flaky but it's very rare and random.

So it behaves like my Macbook, PSP, PS3, tv, etc.. Ocassionally misbehaving like a naughty kid but it's not lost on me that it's an amazing beautifully designed piece of innovation that's only going to get better.
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post #37 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigmafan420 View Post

Yeah it eluded me... loser...

I'm not a fan of lawyers but, boy, you guys are brutal. Give the guy a little sympathy. He's having a bad time.
post #38 of 67
I wonder if they even noticed apples notes on the bottom of the iphone 3g page on their website and on their disclaimers. I wonder if these people also know that blackberrys are having the same issue on the edge network even prior to the iphone 3g. I hope they know that reliability is not on Apple but on the wireless carrier. People are just money hungry. Below is the link and apples disclaimer at the bottom of the page.

http://www.apple.com/iphone/

* Comparisons between iPhone 3G (8GB) and first-generation iPhone (8GB) running on EDGE. Actual speeds vary by site conditions. Requires new two-year AT&T rate plan, sold separately to qualified customers. Visit www.wireless.att.com for eligibility information.
Some features, applications, and services are not available in all areas. See your carrier for details. Some applications are not available in all areas. Application availability and pricing are subject to change.
post #39 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktappe View Post

Because I'm paying $2000 for the phone and 2 years of the contract, and my return period is expired so I have no option to return it? I'm sorry if that extremely simple concept has somehow eluded you.

I suggest you dload Xcode 3.1 and develop some apps on the iPhone so you can feel better.
post #40 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Beatson View Post

I just ran a speed test in Philadelphia...
131 Kbps on EDGE
492 Kbps on 3G

Thats just not right, I only paid for a device that was twice as fast as EDGE, not 3.75 times as fast... I should probably sue too.

Between midnight and 3ish am close to a ATT 3g tower in my apt, I get between 1700 and 2400Kbps...thats faster than my $30 land based ATT DSL line...give me tethering or give me a 3g blackberry
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