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Why they hate her (Sarah Palin) - Page 4

post #121 of 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxParrish View Post

You have drifted off my original point. I never said she had applicable executive experience (i.e. comparable experience to that of being Vice President), I stated that from what we know she has at least the minimal management ability to serve as Vice President...I refered to her record as Govenor.

It was you who claimed her job as Mayor demonstrated her inability to do executive work...i.e. she was "an unmitigated executive failure".

As I did not speak to her experience as Mayor PROVING anything (good or bad), need I refute a claim not made?

What I am challenging is your bias. You offered the KOS article as conclusive - beyond the challenge of a critical examination. I showed that it failed to prove your assertion - that it was tainted by unsupported and weak claims regarding events and accusations. All it showed is that the town created a capital budget, that debt was incurred for sewer, roads, and recreation with the approval of the voters, that some political opponent complained, and that the City became mired in a law suit with a sharp developer who bought land the City was trying to acquire. We know the City debt is unusually low, that she remained popular, and used that to bootstrap her way to the governor's office. I also showed that the article intentionally mislead - therefore calling its reliability into serious question.

So for you to claim, on this evidence, it shows "She was an unmitigated failure" is laughable, and I won't insult your intelligence to believe that you actually hold that conviction. You know it is weak, and "well, they never had a problem before" cannot save a mendacious piece (let alone it demands you now show they never had a legal problem in City history before Palin).

You are quite right in noting that Mayor's have different duties, especially in places that elect Mayors as full-time managers. So without knowing the nature of her job, and the specifics relevant to the KOS claims, then its all partisan claptrap. Claiming that she "signed" a budget or "signed an ordinance" or that someone does'nt like her is succor for the fevered - not rational.

Tell you what, provide evidence of her management. Direct evidence. An auditer's finding, a town that hated her by the end of her tenure, repeated articles against the mayor in the town paper, a state report - when you do, I'll read it.

Till then, well...I can't reason someone out of something that they did not reason themselves into.

P.S. As an agnostic I suppose I ought to take your lurid imagery to heart - but I have not caught the paritisan fever yet.



Max, Max, Max That's all fine and good but we're talking about someone who could be President if something should happen to McCain. Does she have the experience ( or even likely to get it being Vice president ) for that? Even Palin said this isn't something you can get by on the Job training. Given her weak background I don't think so.

Obama on the other hand seems have actually been in Washington politics and knows the waters better already. Biden certainly has. This thing with Palin is just a ploy and it's sad to see people try to make her into something she's not.
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post #122 of 626
Quote:
GIBSON: And you didn't say to yourself, "Am I experienced enough? Am I ready? Do I know enough about international affairs? Do I -- will I feel comfortable enough on the national stage to do this?"

PALIN: I didn't hesitate, no.

GIBSON: Didn't that take some hubris?

PALIN: I -- I answered him yes because I have the confidence in that readiness and knowing that you can't blink, you have to be wired in a way of being so committed to the mission, the mission that we're on, reform of this country and victory in the war, you can't blink. So I didn't blink then even when asked to run as his running mate.

Explanation: Dunning-Kruger effect

Her explanation doesn't make sense. To me, being committed to the success of an important objective means carefully evaluating if you are competent to a do a job, if you are asked to do a job in service of that objective.

But I guess in authoritarian politics, if the boss says do something, you do it, without question.
post #123 of 626
And of course there'
s this surfacing again : http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/...ion/index.html

Palin Adviser Warned That Firing Raised Grave Concern

Quote:
Palin adviser warned that firing raised 'grave' concernStory Highlights
Former ethics adviser warned Sarah Palin over trooper firing

Wevley Shea is a former U.S. attorney and fellow Republican

Lawmakers are investigating why Alaska commissioner was fired

Alaska Legislature's inquiry is scheduled to be completed by October 10


And

Palin Takes Tough Stance On Russia

Quote:
Palin takes tough stance on RussiaStory Highlights
ABC News releases excerpts of interview with VP candidate Sarah Palin

Palin says she backs NATO expansion, says new Cold War unnecessary

Palin: U.S. must be "vigilant" against invasions of small democracies

Palin says she is confident she could handle the duties of president if necessary


Yeah let's fight a war with Russia!

Why is this woman even being seriously considered?
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post #124 of 626
Given that it is a known fact that Georgia started this conflict, how can she claim that?
post #125 of 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post

Given that it is a known fact that Georgia started this conflict, how can she claim that?


Because she often doesn't have her facts straight. It's really sad that the republicans aren't even concerned about this choice.
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post #126 of 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

It's really sad that the republicans aren't even concerned about this choice.

That's what gets me. They don't know her, don't care and just fall in line like lemmings or Borg, without any concern for the well-being of the nation, not to mention the world.

 

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post #127 of 626
Hold on hold on hold on.

I've been to the United States so many times I have lost count. I have been to *Lesotho* more times then Sarah Palin has been to Canada, her nearest neighbour. *I* have met a foreign head of state. I'm just an average guy. I count these journeys as crucial to my understanding of how to do business. Any executive I know feels international contact to be important to doing business. With none of it, there is no way IN HELL any medium-to-large corporation would consider a candidate remotely suitable for a senior position.

The fact is, Palin got round to getting a passport at the age of forty fucking three.

If you've not been abroad, you can't understand how people work, how cultural references function, what "international diplomacy" means ... etc. etc. ... and you mind has not been broadened.

This woman is spectacularly and dangerously unqualified to be president.
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post #128 of 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harald View Post

Hold on hold on hold on.

I've been to the United States so many times I have lost count. I have been to *Lesotho* more times then Sarah Palin has been to Canada, her nearest neighbour. *I* have met a foreign head of state. I'm just an average guy. I count these journeys as crucial to my understanding of how to do business. Any executive I know feels international contact to be important to doing business. With none of it, there is no way IN HELL any medium-to-large corporation would consider a candidate remotely suitable for a senior position.

The fact is, Palin got round to getting a passport at the age of forty fucking three.

If you've not been abroad, you can't understand how people work, how cultural references function, what "international diplomacy" means ... etc. etc. ... and you mind has not been broadened.

This woman is spectacularly and dangerously unqualified to be president.

Palin claims that "many" other VP nominees in history hadn't met a head of state. She's wrong. Every vice presidential nominee over the last 30 years had met a foreign head of state.

VP's whom met foreign heads of state:

John Adams was ambassador to the Netherlands before he was VP.
Thomas Jefferson was minister to France after Franklin.
Aaron Burr allowed Tallyrand to live with him during the French Revolution.
Elbridge Gerry was a minister to France under John Adams.
Martin Van Buren served as Secretary of State.
George M. Dallas served as secretary to the Minister to Russia.
Rufus King served in Legations in Naples and St. Petersburg.
Levi P. Morton was Minister to France.
Charles W. Fairbanks was a member of the United States and British Joint High Commission to Canada.
Charles G. Dawes won a Nobel Peace Prize for his war reparations work and became Ambassador to U.K. after he was VP.
LBJ was Senate Democratic Leader.
Hubert Humphrey was House Majority Whip.
Everyone after Gerald Ford had met a foreign head of state.

Maybes:

George Clinton's wikipedia page is silent on this issue, but he was the longest serving Governor of New York, so it is possible he met with visiting dignitaries.
John C. Calhoun was in the War Department, so it's likely he met a foreign head of state (if only an Indian tribe leader).
Theodore Roosevelt was Governor of NY and Secretary of the Navy before he was VP.
John Nance Garner, Henry A. Wallace, Harry S Truman, Alben Barkley, and Richard Nixon all had congressional careers before, during and after WWII, which meant that they probably had met a foreign head of state.

Me and some friends had a long discussion on this Palin interview last night. It's ramifications to whether the general public read between the lines or not will seriously effect this election and the U.S.'s future.

This choice, whether they be male or female, shouldn't be taken glibly.
post #129 of 626
I have learned in my military service how to survive a nuclear strike and chemical attacks at least for the first few days. If McCain - Palin happens this knowledge will come in handy. I will share it with interested parties for only
$ 4,000/ hour.

Devine killing.
post #130 of 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamac View Post

I have learned in my military service how to survive a nuclear strike and chemical attacks at least for the first few days. If McCain - Palin happens this knowledge will come in handy. I will share it with interested parties for only
$ 4,000/ hour.

Devine killing.

Oh goodness. The dystopian, apocalyptic, armageddon, "End is Near" rhetoric is now reaching fever-pitch.

Can I get this election in widescreen HD, because it sure looks like it will be an entertaining one.
post #131 of 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by sslarson View Post

Oh goodness. The dystopian, apocalyptic, armageddon, "End is Near" rhetoric is now reaching fever-pitch.

Can I get this election in widescreen HD, because it sure looks like it will be an entertaining one.

Vote McCain Palin!
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post #132 of 626
In support of the above, ABC on the heads of state issue:

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalra...heck-pali.html

Palin would be the first in 32 years to have not met a head of state.

That's change!

 

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post #133 of 626
McCain, just last year, saying Senators have more on-the-job training regarding national defense than mayors and governors:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/0..._n_125944.html

More change!

 

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post #134 of 626
Ouch:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/0..._n_125975.html


An ad not made by Obama's campaign that attacks Palin on wolf hunting.

There was a $150 bounty on severed legs enacted by Palin:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17735990/

http://dwb.adn.com/news/alaska/wildl...-8628810c.html

The group:
http://www.defenders.org/newsroom/pr...ty_program.php


However, the shooting policy was in action for several years before Palin became governor.

 

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post #135 of 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post

Explanation: Dunning-Kruger effect

I cannot tell you the number of times I've experienced this first hand. Working with confident incompetents is so common in business these days, it's practically expected whenever one meets a smirking 20- or 30-something "junior executive" or the like. Gawd...

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post #136 of 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

That's what gets me. They don't know her, don't care and just fall in line like lemmings or Borg, without any concern for the well-being of the nation, not to mention the world.

McCain picked her with full knowledge of her incompetence. This is the only explanation that makes sense. With a weak, confused VP it leaves him free to act as a virtual dictator with the additional power and latitude in decision-making that has been established under Bush/Cheney. He doesn't even need Palin except to throw dust up in the air to blind the press and public.

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post #137 of 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post

Given that it is a known fact that Georgia started this conflict, how can she claim that?

Russia started it but the attack was not "unprovoked" as she claims. The Georgian's stepped in it by getting suckered by the Russians.

There is clear indication that the Russians had helped evacuation of Ossetian civ populations and had the Ossetian seperatists carry out attacks prior to the Georgian attacks. Plus they had some of thier best troops in the area mobilized BEFORE the event too.

The Georgians also really screwed the pooch by not managing to drop the Roki tunnel.
post #138 of 626

 

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post #139 of 626
I was following your argument until this totally threw me...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxParrish View Post

.
If Palin were running for President, I might be voting Republican...

Y...y...you're kidding right? A Palin presidency would be a disaster. Like installing (a deceased) Chris Farley as the CEO of Apple. She would be a tool of the military-industrial complex and likely a pro-Armageddonist. She easily represents the most uneducated politician to seek such a high office in our country's history. I'd wager she's even less educated than Pres. Bush.

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post #140 of 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilsch View Post

Indeed they are. Come on Jube, let's get real here for crying out loud.

The interview I saw tonight made Dan Quayle look like a genius. If it wasn't obvious she has absolutely no meaningful experience or knowledge of basic foreign relations for example (even after undergoing intense coaching the last couple of weeks), there is zero doubt after tonight. I even felt bad for her at times. Just a little. In between laughs. But not too much.

I was actually so uncomfortable during her interview I had to get up and step away from the screen. Her lack of knowledge was painful to watch.

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post #141 of 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

I cannot tell you the number of times I've experienced this first hand. Working with confident incompetents is so common in business these days, it's practically expected whenever one meets a smirking 20- or 30-something "junior executive" or the like. Gawd...

I have just recently sued 2 of the mentioned grinning know nothings and netted 17k, boy did this feel good.
post #142 of 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

I'd wager she's even less educated than Pres. Bush.

Well you'd probably win that wager, since George Bush's intelligence has been estimated to be above average (IQ in the 115-130 range). So if she's only average, then you win.
post #143 of 626
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harald View Post

Hold on hold on hold on.

I've been to the United States so many times I have lost count. I have been to *Lesotho* more times then Sarah Palin has been to Canada, her nearest neighbour. *I* have met a foreign head of state. I'm just an average guy. I count these journeys as crucial to my understanding of how to do business. Any executive I know feels international contact to be important to doing business. With none of it, there is no way IN HELL any medium-to-large corporation would consider a candidate remotely suitable for a senior position.

The fact is, Palin got round to getting a passport at the age of forty fucking three.

If you've not been abroad, you can't understand how people work, how cultural references function, what "international diplomacy" means ... etc. etc. ... and you mind has not been broadened.

This woman is spectacularly and dangerously unqualified to be president.

I think we went through this with the whole, McCain military service bit. This meme is feeling familiar.

Can anyone explain how meeting a foreign head of state qualifies you for anything?

I've met a few governors (including California) of states that are larger than most nations in Europe. After the handshaking, small talk and speech I felt exactly no more qualified to do anything than before.

Harald, I'll ask you this since you volunteered the information. What qualifications did meeting a head of state give you that you did not previously have? Were you now entitled to a higher pay grade? Did you feel more qualified to do something? Give me a bit more than the talking point here please.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #144 of 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by sslarson View Post

Well you'd probably win that wager, since George Bush's intelligence has been estimated to be above average (IQ in the 115-130 range). So if she's only average, then you win.

If it walks like a duck...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Presidential_IQ_hoax
Quote:
In 2006, a real study, albeit one based on varied and often subjective historical material analyzed with the tools of historiometry, was published in the journal Political Psychology. It estimated IQs for all US presidents since 1900. It rated G.W. Bush second to last, with an estimated IQ of 125 (with the estimate ranging from 111 to 139; the standard average for all people is 100). The same study estimated president Bill Clinton's IQ at 149.[10] In an interview, the study's director noted that "Bush may be 'much smarter' than the findings imply" but that he "scores particularly unimpressively for 'openness to experience, a cognitive proclivity that encompasses unusual receptiveness to fantasy, aesthetics, actions, ideas and values.

And gut feelings, without the experience to base said gut feelings on.

Who is that guy with the new book just out?
Didn't he quote some stuff Bush said to him?
post #145 of 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by sslarson View Post

Oh goodness. The dystopian, apocalyptic, armageddon, "End is Near" rhetoric is now reaching fever-pitch.

Can I get this election in widescreen HD, because it sure looks like it will be an entertaining one.


Quote:
Oh goodness. The dystopian, apocalyptic, armageddon, "End is Near" rhetoric is now reaching fever-pitch.


You're not worried at all about this?
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post #146 of 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by sslarson View Post

Well you'd probably win that wager, since George Bush's intelligence has been estimated to be above average (IQ in the 115-130 range). So if she's only average, then you win.

About 129.

I work for a university. Education doesn't imply intelligence or common sense.

Those are seperate things.
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post #147 of 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by sslarson View Post

Well you'd probably win that wager, since George Bush's intelligence has been estimated to be above average (IQ in the 115-130 range). So if she's only average, then you win.


IQ and EQ are quotients. How they are applied is very different from the potential. There are many potentially bright students who instead waste their lives away.

Look at the mess Bush has gotten us into with his "above average" IQ.

 

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post #148 of 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

I think we went through this with the whole, McCain military service bit. This meme is feeling familiar.

Can anyone explain how meeting a foreign head of state qualifies you for anything?

I've met a few governors (including California) of states that are larger than most nations in Europe. After the handshaking, small talk and speech I felt exactly no more qualified to do anything than before.

Harald, I'll ask you this since you volunteered the information. What qualifications did meeting a head of state give you that you did not previously have? Were you now entitled to a higher pay grade? Did you feel more qualified to do something? Give me a bit more than the talking point here please.

You won't embarrass yourself or the country when meeting heads of state because you've done it before, understand the protocol etc.

It's called experience.

What government, company, corporation would expect, or want a novice to represent them in important meetings, negotiations etc.
post #149 of 626
Can see the first meeting now:

"I saw your country from an airplane, so I know all about it."

 

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post #150 of 626
And now come all the explanations about how Bush is really dumb even if he isn't. Whatever.
post #151 of 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by sslarson View Post

And now come all the explanations about how Bush is really dumb even if he isn't. Whatever.

Care to prove that he is intelligent?

 

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post #152 of 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac

You're not worried at all about this?

This? Well, I'm certainly concerned about the path America is on. I'm plenty worried. But almost certainly for different (and longer range) reasons than you (or most others) are.

I just think it's pretty funny is all. Sarah Palin == end of world.

Whatever.

I happen to think that either of these two candidates (Obama, McCain) offered up to us by the media and the establishment ruling party are going to be bad for the country. I'm only hoping it will be bad enough to trigger some real reform and change. I'm skeptical.
post #153 of 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamac View Post

I have just recently sued 2 of the mentioned grinning know nothings and netted 17k, boy did this feel good.

Were they stock brokers?

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post #154 of 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by sslarson View Post

I'm only hoping it will be bad enough to trigger some real reform and change. I'm skeptical.

Really?
Wishing for the worst so your idea of, from jubelum, "dystopia" can come about.

See jubelum, naming the source of the quote, that way their is no argument about the misuse of a quote and where it originated.
post #155 of 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by screener

Really?

I should be more clear.

What I'm concerned with is short-term bandages that merely put off the hard work of making serious and needed corrections. The more we apply such short term bandages the bigger the long-term correction and damage will be.

I also think that people will continue electing the people that keep getting offered up as long as they keep providing us short-term solutions.

The real concern, of course, is that a major crash will likely be followed by dictatorship (at first) thanks to the apparatus that the two parties have slowly assembled over the last several decades.
post #156 of 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by sslarson View Post

I should be more clear.

What I'm concerned with is short-term bandages that merely put off the hard work of making serious and needed corrections. The more we apply such short term bandages the bigger the long-term correction and damage will be.

I also think that people will continue electing the people that keep getting offered up as long as they keep providing us short-term solutions.

The real concern, of course, is that a major crash will likely be followed by dictatorship (at first) thanks to the apparatus that the two parties have slowly assembled over the last several decades.

Well lets hope if McCain wins, he doesn't bite the dust, because when a pitbull with lipstick, on a mission from God takes the helm, who knows where it'll lead.
post #157 of 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by screener View Post

Well lets hope if McCain wins, he doesn't bite the dust, because when a pitbull with lipstick, on a mission from God takes the helm, who knows where it'll lead.

Down the Bridge to Nowhere?

 

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post #158 of 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by screener

Well lets hope if McCain wins, he doesn't bite the dust, because when a pitbull with lipstick, on a mission from God takes the helm, who knows* where it'll lead.

OK. Whatever.

*You're right, who knows, but it's interesting that the defacto presumption of liberals on this unknowable future is solidly apocalyptic.
post #159 of 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by sslarson View Post

OK. Whatever.

*You're right, who knows, but it's interesting that the defacto presumption of liberals on this unknowable future is solidly apocalyptic.

I wouldn't say apocalyptic, probably more of the same with a little bit of extra thrown in.
post #160 of 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by sslarson View Post

And now come all the explanations about how Bush is really dumb even if he isn't. Whatever.

I think he's really dumb. Just look at the state of the country. If he was the head of a corporation he would have been fired long ago.

For incompetence.
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