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Why they hate her (Sarah Palin) - Page 8

post #281 of 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by gastroboy View Post

Well I think that's hardly a brain strainer as a Hitler reincarnation would be 100% pro gun. For similar reasons as the NRA.

Psst... Hitler wrote the most sweeping gun control act ever put in place in Germany. He didn't like people having the ability to defend themselves. Sound familiar?
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post #282 of 626
Hypothetically, if I lived in Texas, where there is plenty of gun violence, and if I were REALLY concerned about my family's safety due to gun violence, the first thing I would do is move the hell someplace safer. Seriously.

Someone who would choose otherwise just might appear to value guns more than safety. Just sayin'.
post #283 of 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Hypothetically, if I lived in Texas, where there is plenty of gun violence, and if I were REALLY concerned about my family's safety due to gun violence, the first thing I would do is move the hell someplace safer. Seriously.

Someone who would choose otherwise just might appear to value guns more than safety. Just sayin'.

Such is the mentality of the anti-gunner.

Let's see... where to move... where to move. How about a place where guns are banned. That ought to be safe, right? Hmmmmm... Washington DC... no... murder capital... oh, Detroit... naah, too violent... I know CHICAGO... damn, high crime there too.

Man, tonton, I'd love to move somewhere where guns bans have worked as you liberals propose. It's just too bad that time and again... when you disarm law-abiding people, the crime rate is almost categorically higher.
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post #284 of 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

Psst... Hitler wrote the most sweeping gun control act ever put in place in Germany. He didn't like people having the ability to defend themselves. Sound familiar?

Source?
post #285 of 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamac View Post

Source?

I was curious about this too so did a bit of Googling and found this:

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/...-gun-ownership

While this article pretty much brings into question the quotes attributed to Hitler regarding gun control, it actually raises a slightly more frightening historical precedent. I'll let the article speak for itself:

Quote:
OK, so the quote and cite are screwed up. What about the supposed law itself? Well, as described in the FAQ, 1935 "has no correlation with any legislative effort by the Nazis for gun registration." (Nor, for that matter, does 1936, the year you mention in your question.) Indeed, there was no need for the Nazis to pass a law like that, because the earlier Weimar government had already passed gun registration laws. When I asked Cramer about his reasearch, he said, "The laws adopted by the Weimar Republic intended to disarm Nazis and Communists were sufficiently discretionary that the Nazis managed to use them against their enemies once they were in power." In other words, they didn't need to pass additional laws. The Nazis did pass a weapons law in 1938, but that only added restrictions to the previous law, especially for Jews and other "non-citizens."

Quote:
Cramer further noted that although gun control laws helped the Nazis suppress political dissidents and round up German Jews for extermination, "they weren't the major part of the process." Later, when they invaded Eastern Europe, Cramer says the Nazis did indeed benefit from the inability of their victims to fight back. But that is tangential to the (un)reality of this quote.

So it's kinda true and kinda false.

The more frightening (and probably more important) thing (or should be for any advocate of certain government actions) is that laws put in place under one regime (it is notable that Weimar Republic was hardly an oppressive dictatorship but rather more of a democracy comparable to the U.S.) can and often are used by subsequent Not So Good regimes.
post #286 of 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

Such is the mentality of the anti-gunner.

Let's see... where to move... where to move. How about a place where guns are banned. That ought to be safe, right? Hmmmmm... Washington DC... no... murder capital... oh, Detroit... naah, too violent... I know CHICAGO... damn, high crime there too.

Man, tonton, I'd love to move somewhere where guns bans have worked as you liberals propose. It's just too bad that time and again... when you disarm law-abiding people, the crime rate is almost categorically higher.


Visited Japan recently? No weapons (well, almost none) and the crime rate is rather low. Some people I know feel uncomfortable when around policemen because they carry guns; coast guard ships routinely cover the deck guns when doing port visits.

The masses are law-abiding, without any need for weapons.

From Wikipedia:

In 1989 Japan experienced 1.3 robberies per 100,000 population, compared with 48.6 for West Germany, 65.8 for Great Britain, and 233.0 for the United States; and it experienced 1.1 murder per 100,000 population, compared with 3.9 for West Germany, 1.03 for England and Wales, and 8.7 for the United States that same year[citation needed].

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Japan

 

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post #287 of 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

Man, tonton, I'd love to move somewhere where guns bans have worked as you liberals propose. It's just too bad that time and again... when you disarm law-abiding people, the crime rate is almost categorically higher.

Well... I've found a safe place. There's about one gun-related story here per year. The last gun-related death was in 2006, and that story dominated headlines for about six months.

Or you could try just about anywhere else in the world with stricter gun-control laws than the US.

The problem in the US is that it is absolutely trivial to go across city limits or state lines to buy a gun if you want it. That's why the only gun-control that will work would be Federal gun control.

It worked in Australia. It would work in the US too. All it would take is for people to REALLY care about safety, to pass laws that would make a difference.
post #288 of 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

Visited Japan recently? No weapons (well, almost none) and the crime rate is rather low. Some people I know feel uncomfortable when around policemen because they carry guns; coast guard ships routinely cover the deck guns when doing port visits.

The masses are law-abiding, without any need for weapons.

From Wikipedia:

In 1989 Japan experienced 1.3 robberies per 100,000 population, compared with 48.6 for West Germany, 65.8 for Great Britain, and 233.0 for the United States; and it experienced 1.1 murder per 100,000 population, compared with 3.9 for West Germany, 1.03 for England and Wales, and 8.7 for the United States that same year[citation needed].

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Japan

I think country to country comparisons* are often fraught with peril. I think this is even more problematic when comparing a largely mono-racial, mono-culture nation such as Japan with a multi-racial and multi-cultural nation like the U.S. I mention only these two criteria because differences along these lines are, sadly, often the source of conflict and even violence.

We always need to be careful of falling into the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy on these things. What may help is seeing and understanding before and after data within single areas. Even those need to be examined quite carefully for biases in the data (or data collection and reporting). One still cannot escape the problems with comparing different cultural, racial, religious, political, etc. compositions of different areas.

*Another possible issue here is who the source of the data is. How do they count? How do they report? This is a notorious problem with infant mortality figures for example. Is the source biased or do they have a vested interest in the data looking a certain way? NOTE: This can include the governments themselves because they are certainly not unbiased.
post #289 of 626
My point was that nothing is going to happen to your prescious guns, no matter who is president. If you believe there is going to be a ban on handguns then your drinking the cool-aid.

and what the hell has happened to this place?!

I use the term 'gun control freak' and get an infraction?!

This is idiotic.

The whole reason for having PO moved off to its own little corner of Appleinsider, away form the rest of the Mac enthuisiasts was so that we could go at it in regular bouts of unhealthy rhetorical slinging.
If its going to be so tightly monitored (and getting a demirit for the term Control-freak' IS utterly idiotic) then this area should once again be merged with AppleOutsider as it used to be.
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post #290 of 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by pfflam View Post

My point was that nothing is going to happen to your prescious guns, no matter who is president.

I don't think there is any assurance of this whatsoever.
post #291 of 626
In the US, interestingly, most murders and rapes are intraracial, that is, they are committed against people of the same race as the offender, close to 90%.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_i...s_of_offenders


---

However, we have veered off-topic.

To return to the topic, Palin made rape victims in her town pay for their own rape kits.

Violent crime and rape rates in Alaska are double the US average. Would be interesting to compare to another state of similar demographics.

 

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post #292 of 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by sslarson View Post

I don't think there is any assurance of this whatsoever.

So we're faced with a choice.

You have no proof that guns wouldn't be further restricted under Obama. You also have no proof that guns would be... or that guns wouldn't be further restricted under McCain.

Then when we look at the economy, the war, social freedoms, international diplomatic standing, PATRIOT, we should know how to vote, no matter which side of the gun debate we're on.

Like I said. Single issue voters are scum.
post #293 of 626
There is something surreal about this.

In the face of some of the most severe problems this country has faced in the last 50 years, we abruptly start talking about gun ownership as if it were the most significant issue of the campaign.

Because the idea that a Democratic administration might in any way restrict any kind of gun ownership, however slightly, is more important than the economy, the war, global warming, energy policy, health care, the deficit, international relations, restoring our shredded constitution, etc.

Hilariously, this line of thought is proffered as a rebuttal to the idea that voters beset with problems seemingly out of their control might revert to single issue concerns like guns. If this whole conversation isn't "clinging", I don't know what is.

News flash: if things keep on going like they are, it's going to take a good deal more than the home arsenal to "defend your family." That's an almost touchingly reductive version of protecting one's own, but in the real world the real dangers are way scarier than bad men with guns and defending against them will take more foresight than stocking up on ammo.

I dunno, maybe we can work it so that nobody has much of anything left to defend, and then we can start shooting each other for food.

Speaking of which, Hitler was also a vegetarian, so anyone suggesting you eat less meat is clearly a terrifying Nazi that must be resisted, by any means necessary.
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post #294 of 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

Psst... Hitler wrote the most sweeping gun control act ever put in place in Germany. He didn't like people having the ability to defend themselves. Sound familiar?



Dude, no one is coming to get your guns. I respect your right to own any fucking weapon of penile enhancement you want.

It's the NRA who are a bunch of idiot nut jobs, not you. They are nut-jobs. Period.

But if you keep listening to Fox News, that's your problem, not mine.

But I'll admit, Megyn Kelly can spin me anytime. Hubba hubba.

Just to let you know, another police officer here in Philadelphia was shot and killed. The right to own a handgun for one purpose will always be justified by the constitution, but the laws will always have to be viewed (and reviewed) upon what the affect it may have on society. it will always be an issue that will need review and sometimes revision.
post #295 of 626
Charlton Heston proved in one of Micheal Moore's movies just how cold-hearted he truly is.

---

Back on Topic:

What did Palin do to improve pubic safety in Alaska?

 

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post #296 of 626
Palin's approval rating in Alaska is dropping fast: one poll suggests 14 points in just 3 weeks.

http://community.adn.com/adn/node/131785

 

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post #297 of 626
There is no greater sign of intellectual bankruptcy than referencing Hitler.
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post #298 of 626
Markos at Daily Kos makes an interesting point: if McCain had "put country first" and chosen a veep with experience instead of a know-nothing evangelical base solidifier, he might not be getting hit in the polls right now.

A Mitt Romney would have given the McCain campaign a credible face for talking about the banking crisis. Instead, they have McCain himself doing his usual admixture of bluster, gibberish and platitude, backed up by.......Sarah Palin. Who they have to hide, lest she say something horrifying to the national press that gets people thinking (even more) about what a Palin presidency would look like, should the president be called upon to do something more than yell "yee haw" and try to get abortion made illegal.

She may loose him the election. Cultural signifier candidates work much better when we can all pretend like gummit is the problem and that all that's required to put the world right is a little good ole' common sensical budget slashing and tax cuts, like that super smart guy at the bowling alley always say. Hell, it ain't rocket surgery.

And then along comes a rocket that needs fixin'.
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post #299 of 626
like that super smart guy at the bowling alley always say

post #300 of 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

You have no proof that guns wouldn't be further restricted under Obama. You also have no proof that guns would be... or that guns wouldn't be further restricted under McCain.

So, voting records are meaningless?
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post #301 of 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

So, voting records are meaningless?

You forgot citations sir*. And my reply? Whoosh...

* There very well be some, but I'm giving you the floor.
post #302 of 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by groverat View Post

There is no greater sign of intellectual bankruptcy than referencing Hitler.

What would be intellectually bankrupt would be to be ignorant or dismissive of the lessons of history. And the reference to Hitler could have been to anyone. Perhaps I should have said Satan.

There are people who would vote for Satan incarnate if his opponent supported gun-control.

Better?
post #303 of 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by groverat View Post

There is no greater sign of intellectual bankruptcy than referencing Hitler.

The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #304 of 626
[CENTER][/CENTER]
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #305 of 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

What would be intellectually bankrupt would be to be ignorant or dismissive of the lessons of history. And the reference to Hitler could have been to anyone. Perhaps I should have said Satan.

There are people who would vote for Satan incarnate if his opponent supported gun-control.

Better?

Satan was initially an angel.

Cut the religious crap.
Hitler was not Satan.
Hitler designed the shape of the VW bug by his own hand (Germans call it "Hitler's Huntchback"). The most successful car (still) of all times. He also had the Germans invent a lot of technology that we are all using to this date (Rockets, PA systems, Mass produced radios, first to use musical signations (Wagner),.. and tons more).

He was a bad dude. Don't get me wrong.

What has Satan done?
post #306 of 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamac View Post

Satan was initially an angel.

Cut the religious crap.
Hitler was not Satan.
Hitler designed the shape of the VW bug by his own hand (Germans call it "Hitler's Huntchback"). The most successful car (still) of all times. He also had the Germans invent a lot of technology that we are all using to this date (Rockets, PA systems, Mass produced radios, first to use musical signations (Wagner),.. and tons more).

He was a bad dude. Don't get me wrong.

What has Satan done?

He invented Cool Ranch Doritos, Dancing With the Stars, and Mazda's "Zoom Zoom" campaign. He's why Ashlee Simpson has a career, why people say "awesome" when they mean "a thing" and why Cheney wasn't beaten to death by his fellow inmates after being sent to prison just for being such a gargantuan fucker.

I believe he also brokered the deal that returned the Raiders to Oakland and drove the A's out.
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post #307 of 626
Have you guys seen the video of Palin with Thomas Muthee?

*Warning* Uber-nutty zone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ccmR...eature=related

At least she's protected against the "spirits of witchcraft".
post #308 of 626
Wow. Just wow. Just saw the Couric video with Palin. Unreal.

Couric: "We began though with reports that the lobbying firm of Senator McCain's campaign manager received payments as recently as last month from mortgage giant Freddie Mac even as it was failing. I asked for her reaction during our exclusive interview".

Palin: "My understanding is Rick Davis recused himself from the dealings in that firm I don't know how long ago a year or two ago and that he's not benefitting from that and you know I would hope that that's the case."

Couric: "But he still has a stake in the company so isn't that a conflict of interest?"

---Pause---

Palin: " Again my understanding is that he recused himself from the dealings with Freddie and Fannie and his lobbying efforts on his part there and I would hope that that's the case."

Couric then asked Palin for examples of McCain pushing for regulation....."blah blah blah Maverick....the other party.....blah blah blah."

Couric: "I'm just gonna ask you one more time not to belabor the point specific examples in his 26 years of pushing for more regulation"...

Palin deer in the headlights clueless look: "I'll try to find you some and I'll bring them to ya".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vbg6hF0nShQ&eurl
post #309 of 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilsch View Post

Couric: "I'm just gonna ask you one more time not to belabor the point specific examples in his 26 years of pushing for more regulation"...

Palin deer in the headlights clueless look: "I'll try to find you some and I'll bring them to ya".

At least she's going to try.
post #310 of 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilsch View Post

Wow. Just wow. Just saw the Couric video with Palin. Unreal.


Palin deer in the headlights clueless look: "I'll try to find you some and I'll bring them to ya".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vbg6hF0nShQ&eurl

No wonder they want to post-pone the debate!

 

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post #311 of 626
post #312 of 626
Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse/funnier with Palin.....


http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/09...y4478088.shtml



30 sec. ad before actual video

post #313 of 626
http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_vi...ml?id=4478156n

This is the most terrifying thing I've ever seen on the internet.

Sarah Palin is catastrophically stupid.

If you are prepared to defend her ability, you are not fit to vote.
post #314 of 626
She's not stupid. She's ignorant.

She possesses all the worst traits of Dick Cheney and yet possesses none of the best (actual education, actual knowledge pg how the fuck this whole thing works). We can argue all day whether or not Cheney used his brilliance for diabolical purposes, but he at least has a detailed grasp of issues. Sarah Palin has NONE of this yet possesses a the same penchant for skullduggery.
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post #315 of 626
does anyone know when Ahmadinejad called Israel a "stinking corpse"?

We know the map quote -- controversial as it is.

But "stinking corpse"!?
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post #316 of 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harald View Post

does anyone know when Ahmadinejad called Israel a "stinking corpse"?

We know the map quote -- controversial as it is.

But "stinking corpse"!?

I think it was two years ago, on 60 Minutes? Well, here's what they left on the cutting room floor (italicized).

Quote:
The text in red was edited out of the 60 Minutes broadcast:

MR. WALLACE: You are very good at filibustering. You still have not answered the question. You still have not answered the question. Israel must be wiped off the map. Why?

PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Well, don't be hasty, sir. I'm going to get to that.

MR. WALLACE: I'm not hasty.

PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: I think that the Israeli government is a fabricated government and I have talked about the solution. The solution is democracy. We have said allow Palestinian people to participate in a free and fair referendum to express their views. What we are saying only serves the cause of durable peace. We want durable peace in that part of the world. A durable peace will only come about with once the views of the people are met.

So we said that allow the people of Palestine to participate in a referendum to choose their desired government, and of course, for the war to come an end as well. Why are they refusing to allow this to go ahead? Even the Palestinian administration and government which has been elected by the people is being attacked on a daily basis, and its high-ranking officials are assassinated and arrested. Yesterday, the speaker of the Palestinian parliament was arrested, elected by the people, mind you. So how long can this go on?

We believe that this problem has to be dealt with fundamentally. I believe that the American government is blindly supporting this government of occupation. It should lift its support, allow the people to participate in free and fair elections. Whatever happens let it be. We will accept and go along. The result will be as you said earlier, sir.

MR. WALLACE: Look, I mean no disrespect. Let's make a deal. I will listen to your complete answers if you'll stay for all of my questions. My concern is that we might run out of time.

PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Well, you're free to ask me any questions you please, and I am hoping that I'm free to be able to say whatever is on my mind. You are free to put any question you want to me, and of course, please give me the right to respond fully to your questions to say what is on my mind.


Do you perhaps want me to say what you want me to say? Am I to understand --

MR. WALLACE: No.

PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: So if that is the case, then I ask you to please be patient.

MR. WALLACE: I said I'll be very patient.

PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Maybe these are words that you don't like to hear, Mr. Wallace.

MR. WALLACE: Why? What words do I not like to hear?

PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Because I think that you're getting angry.

MR. WALLACE: No, I couldn't be happier for the privilege of sitting down with the president of Iran.

This is a well done expose of the fraud of network news, revealing how the networks and network personalities subvert the real news into propaganda, how they twist logical, compassionate statements by world leaders into hateful diatribes, making fair, compassionate people seem vindictive and spiteful*.

Shame on Mike Wallace, on CBS, and on the Emmy Awards people.

* I'm not comparing Ahmadinejad to Jesus or anything, but look where our "diplomacy" has gotten us.
post #317 of 626
Quote:
Ahmadinejad brands Israel a 'stinking corpse'
May 8, 2008
TEHRAN (AFP) — Iran's hardline President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on Thursday called Israel a "stinking corpse" which is doomed to disappear as the Jewish state celebrated its 60th anniversary.

"Those who think they can revive the stinking corpse of the usurping and fake Israeli regime by throwing a birthday party are seriously mistaken," Ahmadinejad was quoted as saying by the official IRNA news agency.

"Today the reason for the Zionist regime's existence is questioned, and this regime is on its way to annihilation," he said.

Ahmadinejad added that Israel "has reached the end like a dead rat after being slapped by the Lebanese" -- a reference to the July-August 2006 war between Israel and the Shiite Hezbollah militia.

Iran does not recognise the Jewish state, and since becoming president in 2005 Ahmadinejad has repeatedly provoked international outrage by predicting that Israel is doomed to disappear.

He has also caused controversy by playing down the scale of the Holocaust.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5...JGzZHSGjnzDIXg
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post #318 of 626
Palin got permission to delay her financial report until the day after the VP debate.

http://www.adn.com/palin/story/536988.html


Why would this even be necessary?


And yeah, the witchcraft video is disturbing:

http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/newsr...ry/536961.html

 

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post #319 of 626
What a fucking joke this woman is.

Jesus goddam Christ
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post #320 of 626
I thought ministers were off limits in this race?
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