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Seinfeld, Gates 'connect' with regular folks in new Microsoft ad - Page 2

post #41 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPilya View Post

I keep on reading people question on where the "vista" tie-in is on these ads. Well... the fact is... and I think its rather obvious from a marketing stand point that these ads are not about a product per se... but rather about a shift in the image perception of Microsoft itself.

From all that was talked about before the first was released, I too expected a more 'vista' focused assault....

All in all I am not so sure this campaign will succeed because I believe that the Microsoft image is so set that its going to take a much more global effort that includes product re-focusing and long term product successes to win the battle.

I agree...the TV-ad Microsoft perception will come crashing down as soon as you sit in front of a PC unless they fix the product. "A turd by any other name is still a turd..."
post #42 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by delreyjones View Post

The only coherent messages these ads have delivered are [...] M$ will deliver great things, sometime in the future.

In an apparent nod to reality, I believe Gates' precise description of when the great new stuff would be delivered is: "Never!"
post #43 of 147
The next "Get a Mac" ad I want to see goes like this.....


Scene opens with PC standing next to Mac but he's only wearing one shoe.
(preferably in white socks so it's obvious and he's standing crooked as one shoe on is
making him taller on that leg)
In his hands he has what looks like the other shoe and he's with some effort flexing
it back and forth pretty hard.
PC:"Hi I'm a PC"
Mac:"Hi I'm a Mac, Hey PC... what'cha got there?"
PC:"Well, I'm trying to relate with the young people out there because YOU relate
so well. Macs come in a complete package that really goes well together and people
really relate to that. So I'm going to work harder at relating with people."
Mac:"How is using your hands to break in your shoes going to help you relate to people?"
PC:"I don't know but it makes my feet feel much more comfortable while I wait for people to notice me"

Screen goes to a Mac with the caption:
Mac - Easier to use, Easier to Relate to......
post #44 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by hittrj01 View Post

I have to say that you insinuating that all people who vote for McCain are stupid is rather offensive. To assume all McCain voters are uneducated, backwater hicks is a very arrogant, and may I say, stupid thing to say. While I prefer Macs over PCs, I think it's very arrogant to say that only dumb, uneducated people buy PCs, just as it is very arrogant and narrow-minded to accuse all McCain voters of being the same. There are plenty of Obama supporters I could say the same thing about, but does that make every Obama supporter dumb and uneducated? No. Keep your ignorant, self-serving views to yourself, as you obviously are one of the dumber, more uneducated Obama supporters around if those really are your true views.

Well maybe I wasn't so clear with the analogy and if I upset you I apologise, but I did not mean to imply that one had to be "dumb" to vote for McCain, merely uneducated on the facts.

My point was that a rational factually based assessment of PC vs Mac (in the absence of other significant driving factors), or Obama vs. McCain, Mac and Obama are the only rational choice. I don't see how there is any argument to the contrary. By "driving factors" here I mean that there could easily be rational reasons for picking a PC (like it's the only platform that runs software A, B, or C), outside of the general comparison I am trying to make between platforms.

Smart people can still pick a PC for any number of reasons and smart people can pick McCain, but especially with political side of the argument (because the factors are a lot simpler) the reasons they do so can't be rational, as no objective rational argument can be constructed that McCain is the better suited person for the job.

Once can vote for McCain because one likes him, or one identifies with him, or just because one doesn't like Obama. One can vote for McCain for ideological reasons, religious reasons, racialy based reasons, etc. etc. But a rational "Mr. Spock-like" assessment of the objective facts and criteria cannot leave one with the conclusion that McCain is the best person for the job. Facts are facts, and opinions are not facts.

I'm not trying to denigrate your opinions, I just don't like it when people confuse opinions and feelings with facts.
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post #45 of 147
I'm not sure If I'm watching the same ad as some of the posters here. Cute? It seems to me that Seinfeld is making some fairly flip remarks,that paint him as arrogant and offensive. Maybe,that's as far as the ad campaign is going with that,but to me it seems likely that they'll build on it. Competing against Apples increasingly aggressive ads-think..."makes both the software and the hardware" a little "Reports of my hardware are greatly exagerrated" perhaps.
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post #46 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by wbrasington View Post

You may not have noticed, but Apple doesn't advertise against MicroSoft.
They advertise against PC which is INDIRECTLY a stab at Microsoft.

But everyone recognizes PCs as being windows and Microsoft. I doubt many people care who made the hardware, when they turn it on they all see Microsofts name come up. They may not directly go against Microsoft in all of them, but they did it enough times to make the point on what there trying to say there better than.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wbrasington View Post

Nobody under the age of 45 is going to see anything remotely FUN in this stuff as a result of these silly ads.

Well Im 24 and I did. I admit there not aimed at everyone though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wbrasington View Post

You are so wrong on this, I actually expect to see PC guy do a parody of the Gates and Seinfeld show.

If they did that it would just re-inforce my first point that Apple are now advertising PC as something to be scared of and must be advertised again, while Microsoft are advertising that Apple arn't even worth mentioning.



I have NO IDEA why you would promote the MicroSoft website.
That's silly, nobody goes anywhere near it when buying a PC....[/QUOTE]
post #47 of 147
Whoever came up with this should get the Advertising Dumbo Award for this year. The "real" message of this little movie about Misters High & Mighty trying to connect with "real" people is that, while the "real" people win this battle in the end, they are still dumber and lower on the evolutionary scale than our heroes, Seinfeld & Gates. I don't know if I have ever seen a more patronizing commercial.

Makes me hate Seinfeld & Gates, their message and their products. Way to go, Admen!
post #48 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Honestly, I have to admit the Ads are kind of cute, and are funny at times.

Please tell me you didn't watch what I did?
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post #49 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktappe View Post

Some did, yes. Remember not to group--people do things for a wide variety of reasons. I got an iPod because I use and support Apple products for a living, so it makes sense for me to own the products I'll be asked about in my profession. Others buy them because they're cute. Others because everyone else is. Perception absolutely counts. Just ask the GOP--McCain is surging in the polls because of the perception that he is a "maverick" and that his VP is a "bulldog", even though both of those are self-assigned monikers that do not stand up to logical scrutiny. Perception is top priority to a (disturbingly high) percentage of the populace, and the marketer/candidate who ignores that is in for a hard time.

That is true that some people buy based on perception - but my point was that the iPod system works which is why it is popular. Perception only goes so far... if the iPod was poorly made with slow, junky parts supported with terrible software, then it wouldn't matter how "cool" they could make it look - it wouldn't be as successful as it is.

The perception Microsoft is trying to instill in people with their current campaign seems to be that Bill's this super-genius and Microsoft has these wildly amazing plans for the future of computing. That's all fine, but they need to back it up, and so far they don't have a track record for doing so.

Apple's current Mac/PC campaign takes 30 seconds and they contrast ways that Mac's have an advantage over PC's. They use quantifiable facts - not shadowy statements about future possibilities...
post #50 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by wbrasington View Post

The next "Get a Mac" ad I want to see goes like this.....


Scene opens with PC standing next to Mac but he's only wearing one shoe.
(preferably in white socks so it's obvious and he's standing crooked as one shoe on is
making him taller on that leg)
In his hands he has what looks like the other shoe and he's with some effort flexing
it back and forth pretty hard.
PC:"Hi I'm a PC"
Mac:"Hi I'm a Mac, Hey PC... what'cha got there?"
PC:"Well, I'm trying to relate with the young people out there because YOU relate
so well. Macs come in a complete package that really goes well together and people
really relate to that. So I'm going to work harder at relating with people."
Mac:"How is using your hands to break in your shoes going to help you relate to people?"
PC:"I don't know but it makes my feet feel much more comfortable while I wait for people to notice me"

Screen goes to a Mac with the caption:
Mac - Easier to use, Easier to Relate to......

That made me laugh! I hope someone at Chiat Day is reading!
post #51 of 147
This ad's mildly funny, though I'd love to see Ballmer taking Gates' role and trying to act human.

I run Windows XP Pro on my MacBook Pro without problems, but no way I'd 'update' to Vista based on the overwhelming number of negative reports. How this ad's supposed to convince me either that Vista is a solid OS or that Microsoft is a 'cool' company, is beyond me.

Perhaps that reported $300 million for the campaign would have been better spent rewriting Windows code from the ground up. As It stands, Windows 7 is looking to be slightly-improved Vista.

Thank God for Mac OS X.
post #52 of 147
can they compete against the 'new' apple? I always see 'catch' up as far as technology is concerned when you compare MS to Apple. They seem to be a few years behind...perhaps that is perception, not reality, but look at Vista, Zune....commercials..


an apple a day...

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post #53 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

Well maybe I wasn't so clear with the analogy and if I upset you I apologise, but I did not mean to imply that one had to be "dumb" to vote for McCain, merely uneducated on the facts. [rest cut to save space... ]

You really believe that? wow... you honestly believe that everyone, or even most people, with the same exact heap of facts present will think exactly the same about them? I find that very ignorant. Your statement basically implied (though I know it wasn't intentional, or obvious to yourself) that your opinions on the matter are right because its you, and so your opinions are facts, yet anyone who has a different opinion is just an irrational opinion.

I think you have some learning to do about people in general... and I can see why your drawn to Obama...


(PS. I don't like either of the presidential 'choices', equally...)
post #54 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic_Al View Post

Are these "regular folks" who use Windows instead of Mac the same people who choose Leno over Letterman, and McCain over Obama? When did mundane become better than elite?

Well 90% of people have Windows, both Letterman and Leno are AWFUL and please stop talking politics in this forum. We all have a right to an opinion and to disagree with said opinion but I just really don't think is the place for political rhetoric - especially since it seems to be entirely 1 sided.
post #55 of 147
That has got to be the longest and most boring TV commercial I have ever seen. In the TV ad business you usually create a long version (30 sec.) and a short version (15 sec.)

I can't even begin to imagine where you would chop the content down and have any sort of coherent message since there is apparently no real message in the 10 minute version to start with.

How much is that going to cost to run the whole ad?

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post #56 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Honestly, I have to admit the Ads are kind of cute, and are funny at times.

But, I suppose they're trying to duplicate the Seinfeld show, which was as they themselves said, about nothing.

The Ads also seem to be about nothing.

Unless they get more focussed later on, I just can't see what good they will do.

And I'm trying to look at this seriously, as a former Ad man, without making the usual Microsoft jokes.

I agree. As a mini-series or just as an expensive running gag, they are fine. As a tool to sell Vista, they are an abject failure.

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post #57 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic_Al View Post

Are these "regular folks" who use Windows instead of Mac the same people who choose Leno over Letterman, and McCain over Obama? When did mundane become better than elite?

I use a Mac, prefer Leno and I'm swaying toward Obama on account of McCain's running mate.
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post #58 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPilya View Post

I keep on reading people question on where the "vista" tie-in is on these ads. Well... the fact is... and I think its rather obvious from a marketing stand point that these ads are not about a product per se... but rather about a shift in the image perception of Microsoft itself.

From all that was talked about before the first was released, I too expected a more 'vista' focused assault....

All in all I am not so sure this campaign will succeed because I believe that the Microsoft image is so set that its going to take a much more global effort that includes product re-focusing and long term product successes to win the battle.

But what perception is Microsoft pushing? That they are just a bunch of average shmucks? I like Apple because their products display a level of intelligence and taste far above average.

Who wants to be associated with an "average" operating system? The whole thing is just wrong.

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post #59 of 147
They actually paid an ad company to come up with this campaign? Single stupidest commercial ever created. Nothing may have worked for a TV show, but those unfortunate souls who are stuck on the dark side, and paid good money for that boat anchor.
post #60 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by city View Post

Is Kimmel okay?

Jimmy Kimmel is "comedy" for mental defects.

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post #61 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by wordwise View Post

"A turd by any other name is still a turd..."

And you call yourself wordwise? That's an old, tired phrase. How about using something more contemporary yet still appropriate, like "You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig"?
post #62 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post

In an apparent nod to reality, I believe Gates' precise description of when the great new stuff would be delivered is: "Never!"

They seem to be subverting their own message at every turn, don't they?

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post #63 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post

And you call yourself wordwise? That's an old, tired phrase. How about using something more contemporary yet still appropriate, like "You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig"?

You can put lipstick on a turd and it doesn't make it a pig.
post #64 of 147
Entertaining Yes, Makes me think of Microsoft? No.
post #65 of 147
This commercial completely misses the huge selling point of the Mac ads...Irony. There's none and there won't be any unless they make fun of their own (MS Windows) shortcomings...which wouldn't be smart either. I do think they're a bit entertaining. I never really thought of Gates as a gerk or anything, but the ad makes me feel like he might be an OK guy. I still would never purposely buy or use his products, except Xbox.

Overall I give it a big whateva. These won't have nearly the impact of Apple's ads, which manage to push brand awareness, purpose brand superiority based on well known, documented and experienced stereotypical scenarios/downfalls of MS systems and entertain all at oncer in a mere 30 seconds.

Meanwhile, just updated my iPhone...let's see if it's stopped being so damn laggy.
post #66 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

Just as any smart, educated person would in the absence of any other driving factors pick ... Obama over McCain....

Oh, please. It's exactly that kind of "agree with us or you're stupid" vibe that will drive people away from the Democratic ticket. If you think all McCain supporters are rednecks and all of Obama's are Ph.D.s who start their day at Starbucks, you're setting yourself up for political failure. Which the latest polls reflect.

As for Leno and Letterman, well, I prefer classic Dave, but Dave has seemed to be calling it in lately.
post #67 of 147
I thought it was really funny (especially Bill showing the kid that software that "will never be released" and Seinfeld's line "I have so many cars I get stuck in my own traffic" was priceless) and I think it's going along way to repositioning MS in people's minds. Whether they sell more units, I have no idea....

One thing I would have changed: When they were scraping that door in the backyard I would've had Ballmer jump out of the bushes, dressed like Steve Jobs, and chase after the girl... But that's why they didn't hire me to direct the ads (still bitter about that...)
post #68 of 147
These are the sorriest and stupidest commercials that I have ever seen. They are not even entertaining in the least. No other software or hardware company would ever in their right mind approve and pay for these. You just have to feel sorry for how far Microsoft has fallen from the reality that the rest of us live in.
post #69 of 147
As someone who only recently bought a Mac, I have been a great fan of Windows for many years. Windows 95 was a breakthrough product that democratized computer ownership. Before its arrival Macs were very expensive and often beyond the reach of ordinary households. A significant part of Microsoft's vision was to offer a user experience comparable to that of System 7. Windows kept a lot of promises and was a big step up from Windows 3.1.

Until January 2007, I was very happy with Windows Xp. It wasn't perfect, but it worked well. If i had a major criticism, it was the need to dive into the guts of the operating system to configure various add-on components that the Mac OS does automatically. But over time i had learned where to find what I needed. Sheer familiarity made the effort of switching to anything else too much of an effort to be worthwhile.

Enter Vista. It was like they changed everything just for the sake of change. i couldn't find anything. Worse still, it wasn't stable and the user-interface was not much of an improvement over what had gone before. Not only did i have to relearn everything, i had to manage the problems of constant crashes. I thought that various patches would overcome the issues I experienced, but they didn't. What made the whole Windows experience even worse was the "free" software bundled with the Sony VAIOs we bought. It slowed the machines down. We seriously considered going back to Windows Xp, but decided not to.

For the sake of reliability, we felt compelled to switch to the Mac OS. It was a right decision. Leopard has been fantastic. Office 2008 is so much better than Office 2007 for Windows. Macs are a joy to use. Of course, there are issues, but on balance our macs in the office do what we need them to. (They also sync very well with the iPhone, which in itself has become a transformational business tool.)

So we're left with Vista and Microsoft's campaign to correct its image. having worked in advertising and marketing for 18 years, I think the Seinfeld campaign is a total waste of money. Not because the ads fail to communicate any kind of message that will overcome the appalling perception and mistrust that is the result of an inadequate product, but because still Microsoft has done nothing to address the fundamental flaws with Vista.

The ads in fact show the extent to which Microsoft is out of touch with its customers. Just look at how benefit focused Apple ads are by comparison.

So any resurgence by Microsoft has to start with the product. Until it recognizes this fundamental requirement any money it spends on advertising is wasted. As with GM and Ford, I am sad to see such a great company get its strategy so completely wrong.
post #70 of 147
I can't believe that I actually wasted 4.30 minutes of my life watching that video.
post #71 of 147
I thought the first one was okay at best. The second one had me laughing out loud and hoping it would never end.
post #72 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by doh123 View Post

You really believe that? wow... you honestly believe that everyone, or even most people, with the same exact heap of facts present will think exactly the same about them? I find that very ignorant. Your statement basically implied (though I know it wasn't intentional, or obvious to yourself) that your opinions on the matter are right because its you, and so your opinions are facts, yet anyone who has a different opinion is just an irrational opinion.

I think you have some learning to do about people in general... and I can see why your drawn to Obama...


(PS. I don't like either of the presidential 'choices', equally...)

Hey thanks for the insult and for putting words in my mouth etc. when I tried as hard as I could not to do the same and apologised for any untoward offence as well. You may infer all kinds of things out of what I said, but that's a subjective journey you are on all by yourself.

For the record, I did not say nor even mean to imply that certain things are right because "I think them." I find the concept hideously misguided. What I am arguing is, (and this is fairly basic stuff), that not everything is a "he said, she said" subjective discussion. Some things are factual. My argument is that an objective assessment will come down on one side or the other in most issues. My further argument is that people being what they are, objective assessments are not always made.

I do not think as you paraphrase, that people given the same "heap of facts" will think the same about them, in fact I said the opposite. People will think a whole variety of different things about them. That's the way people are. I'm arguing in a sense (tangentially I guess), that what people "think" includes subjective as well as objective assessments, and further I'm making an appeal for more objectivity overall. Not a bad thing.

At the risk of getting political yet again, a good example would be the Iraq war. Two people can look at this same "heap of facts" and one can think (logically) that it was a foolish unethical endeavour unlikely to do anything but make things worse, whereas the other can look at it and see it as a great idea because they are basing their assessment on subjective immaterial things like religion, country, etc.

In the end, as animals, it is impossible for us to ever completely separate our subjective beliefs from our more objective tendencies, but again, I would argue that the whole deal with being human at all is that we should try. For me the whole purpose of the human journey is to try to be more than mere animals. I'm an atheist myself but I've studied religion quite a lot and this seems to also be the approach of most of the major denominations, at least at root.

PS - I don't expect to learn a great deal more about humans than I already learned in the first fifty years, but I am always open to the possibility.
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post #73 of 147
Maybe I like them because can watch them without a bias opinion. I hate Microsoft and WIndows but love the second commercial. .
post #74 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by wbrasington View Post

Apple has another name for their Guru's. They call them happy customers.

Wow. This is one of the best, most concise, most insightful comments on the differences between Apple and MS attitudes that I've ever read! And I've been a Mac user since 1984.

Apologies in advance for all the times I'm going to use this line in conversations over the coming years.
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post #75 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

Well maybe I wasn't so clear with the analogy and if I upset you I apologise, but I did not mean to imply that one had to be "dumb" to vote for McCain, merely uneducated on the facts.

My point was that a rational factually based assessment of PC vs Mac (in the absence of other significant driving factors), or Obama vs. McCain, Mac and Obama are the only rational choice. I don't see how there is any argument to the contrary. By "driving factors" here I mean that there could easily be rational reasons for picking a PC (like it's the only platform that runs software A, B, or C), outside of the general comparison I am trying to make between platforms.

Smart people can still pick a PC for any number of reasons and smart people can pick McCain, but especially with political side of the argument (because the factors are a lot simpler) the reasons they do so can't be rational, as no objective rational argument can be constructed that McCain is the better suited person for the job.

Once can vote for McCain because one likes him, or one identifies with him, or just because one doesn't like Obama. One can vote for McCain for ideological reasons, religious reasons, racialy based reasons, etc. etc. But a rational "Mr. Spock-like" assessment of the objective facts and criteria cannot leave one with the conclusion that McCain is the best person for the job. Facts are facts, and opinions are not facts.

I'm not trying to denigrate your opinions, I just don't like it when people confuse opinions and feelings with facts.

Again, you fail to see the flaw in your argument, which is that Obama is a perfect candidate. Each and every person has their own specific needs, wants, ideals, etc., and neither John McCain or Barack Obama or anybody else for that matter can provide those to every single person at once. To assume that because Obama is the right choice for you that he is the absolute right choice for everybody is not only arrogant and ignorant, but a little sad. To believe that the world revolves around you so tightly must be quite a burden, to say the least.

And even to say that all the facts point to Obama is also very narrow-minded on your part. People seem to disregard the fact that he has not even finished a full senate term, and even in his short time there, he has failed to enact anything of value or write any kind of literature whatsoever, while somehow finding time to push out not one, but TWO books promoting his presidential campaign. He talks about change all the time, but after hearing him speak countless number of times, I have yet to hear exactly what it is he is going to change. Like people tend to agree with the change from XP to Vista, change for the sake of change is never a good thing.

I would advise you get your facts straight next time, stop stereotyping everybody who does not agree with your view, and get off of your high perch for just a second and realize that your opinion is not what everyone else in the world thinks.
post #76 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by hittrj01 View Post

Again, you fail to see the flaw in your argument, which is that Obama is a perfect candidate. ...

This is just derailing the thread so let me be the first to stop. I will only say as a parting comment that you are clearly just making things up. I did not say or even imply that Obama is a "perfect candidate." I do not believe that at all actually I disagree with a lot of his positions rather dramatically. I merely said that he was the best choice when looked at objectively and implied that he was so much of a better choice than McCain, that it was rather obvious.

See this is one of those times when the facts are the facts. You have stated several times now that I said this or that, when anyone with a computer can scroll up and see that I didn't. In other words you "think something different" about this particular "heap of facts" that is not supported by the objective evidence. ie. there is more than a hint of subjectivity in your assessment.

I won't reply anymore so feel free to have the last word, throw in an insult or whatever...
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post #77 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

This is just derailing the thread so let me be the first to stop. I will only say as a parting comment that you are clearly just making things up. I did not say or even imply that Obama is a "perfect candidate." I do not believe that at all actually I disagree with a lot of his positions rather dramatically. I merely said that he was the best choice when looked at objectively and implied that he was so much of a better choice than McCain, that it was rather obvious.

See this is one of those times when the facts are the facts. You have stated several times now that I said this or that, when anyone with a computer can scroll up and see that I didn't. In other words you "think something different" about this particular "heap of facts" that is not supported by the objective evidence. ie. there is more than a hint of subjectivity in your assessment.

I won't reply anymore so feel free to have the last word, throw in an insult or whatever...

You tell us that the facts are the facts, but I haven't seen any. You keep telling me everything points to Obama, but what are those things? What has he done that is astronomically better than McCain that it is such an obvious choice? This is a question I pose to all Obama supporters, because I have yet to get an answer. Nobody knows exactly why they support Obama, other than he is going to "change things". Change what? Who knows? Changing things just to change them is not the right way to go about it. Please, I am begging you, tell me why Obama is such an overbearing favorite that it should be painfully obvious to me, because as of today, I have yet to see it.
post #78 of 147
Perhaps instead of connecting with real people, they should start with connecting a plot-line. The whole thing was so disjointed - it actually looks like they took a sitcom episode and just shortened the scenes but left the number of scene breaks.

What's interesting is that assuming the intention here was to suggest Microsoft are able to connect to real people, how come almost every scene shows them being completely out of touch and them subsequently having to find another house to go to?

It's almost like they are saying they've tried to connect but failed at everything. They're right but that doesn't do Microsoft any good.

I also see they started using the word PC in the ad. They are just playing up to Apple's stereotype. They've branded what a PC represents and now Bill and Jerry and just saying 'that's us, the boring old people who still know what the robot dance is'.

PS please leave your political crap out of Mac threads. Not one more mention of any politician's name after this post no matter if someone else happens to get the last say. There is a political forum designed to keep this stuff contained.
post #79 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

This is just derailing the thread so let me be the first to stop. I will only say as a parting comment that you are clearly just making things up. I did not say or even imply that Obama is a "perfect candidate." I do not believe that at all actually I disagree with a lot of his positions rather dramatically. I merely said that he was the best choice when looked at objectively and implied that he was so much of a better choice than McCain, that it was rather obvious.
I won't reply anymore so feel free to have the last word, throw in an insult or whatever...

Like why are you bringing politics and your flawed reasonings into the AI house? Is Rosie O'Donnell's website down or something?
post #80 of 147
It's over 4 minutes long. Who is going to run that?
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