Analyst trims Apple estimates, says Air seeing decreased demand - Page 2

I'll take those odds. Where so I sign up?

I can only speak for myself, something most people here don't do... they speak for others...
anyway For me the Air is just perfect. I have a big workstation and always had a smaller portable mac to email/surf web.. open some docs... nothing fancy... The Air does this just beautifully... and is also small and light and has a backlit keyboard. Just perfect.

I will be getting an MSI Wind before I travel early next year, if something else doesn't come out that will run OS X. I will be backpacking so ultra-portable (not just ultralight) will help for shoving it in my ruck sack. But I also don't want a super expensive machine that I'll be throwing around, will need to put into a Ziplock bag, and will being doing very little typing. Different machine for different needs.


I didn't say 8 hours on one charge, I said it's only one you can comfortably use in an 8 hour work day. How many people are going to travel to satellite office and use a handheld or cramped mini-keyboard for an 8 hour work day. The fact that you took '8-hour work day" to mean a single battery charge shows that you aren't looking at it objectively. ONE SIZE DOES NOT FIT ALL!



You et al. are the ones saying that the HUGE market for a cheap ultra-portable is the same market for the MBA. Just likes Macs to cheap PC, Apple doesn't have to sell nearly as many to make a profit. This is why others are following Apple almost in prefect step to create their own ultra-lightweight notebook with a 13" display and full size keyboard.


You bought it because you love Macs, not because it fit your needs. Check out AnandTechs reviews of the MBA. Anand has had more ultra-portable computers than any other reviewer I've read so you can get a basic idea as to the market these things are for.

[/QUOTE]My macbook air is gone so now is my Lenovo X61.[/QUOTE]
That is anecdotal. "It didn't fit your needs, so it can't possibly fit anyone else's" is not a good argument for business.


Define "current form". The Mac Mini has been complained about since day one. It's not easily upgradable, has no expansion for a desktop, it uses the more expensive mobile technology in a desktop machine, and hasn't been updated in a year. But it's still around, so why do you think that a machine that was besting more powerful, less expensive machines on Apple and Amazon's sites is going to be defunct in a year?

Wu is poo.

You're in luck, the update will bring a 120GB HDD standard, and within 6 months you'll see a 160GB SSD for an estimated $1000 more.

The main deal breaker for me is the low yield battery combined with the lack of a removable battery. I don't mind the fixed battery, but I better get at least 8 hour if you are going to do that. Now there are other options that will run OS X when I'm away so the MBA isn't even in a consideration anymore.

Great, I can't wait to put one in my arm band, and go jogging.

Really the next thing you will see is the resale price on used AIR's dropping like a rock. The gullible have already been taken those looking for a functional mini laptop will go else where. Between the reliability problems that have become evident and the less than well thought out selection of I/O ports could one expect anything less than collapsing sales?

Don't get me wrong the AIR is a nice idea that was very poorly executed. Apple could pull it back to respectability with an update but honestly they would be better off reworking the MacBook line up to take over the segment that is interested in AIR.

Dave

I don't get it - where do you stand on the MBA? I think smaller is everything. So do you since you're buying a smaller machine. Price is neither here nor there - stiff shit if you can't afford it in my book. Value is a different question. The MBA is overpriced but that is par for the course for Apple, they like to err on the high side because it's worse to raise your prices than lower.

The question how what will do for a full day's work is really very subjective and depends on your job, but portability is much easier to call: smaller is better.

I'm not sure how you go from me thinking you meant battery power to not being objective. That's a pretty large leap of logic. But I can say you sound pretty defensive. Why do you feel the need to attack, why don't you argue the point instead of getting all ad hominem?

I think Apple will make something smaller. There is a gap between the Air and your average netbook. Apple would be wise to make something a little larger than a netbook put with more power than a netbook, something between them and an Air. They could claim the higher ground on performance and usability while stretching the smallness factor (probably will involve tapering).

Well at least one of the gadget's has a nice looking attachment.
Wonder if it thinks smaller is better?

I think you should wait until there is something more than analyst speculation before you claim victory. Also Apple doesn't drop prices "like a rock" they just cancel the product.

If smaller is everything then you aren't being objective. A smaller keyboard is harder to type on. A smaller screen displays less info. A smaller HDD holds less data. A smaller battery dues faster. How can one size fit all?

I don't know how you don't know where I stand as I've stated it many times. Not being the market for a device does not mean the market doesn't exist. The MBA is designed as a hybrid being a fully-functional business-class notebook and being very portable yet performs as well as a yet old MB. CPU issues in the MBA aside, because that is a separate issue that goes against Apple and/or Intel's HW or SW design, you can't compare $300 netbook to the MBA and say it's overpriced. That isn't objective in any way shape or form. A netbook with a newly released Atom running at 1.6GHz cost $29 while a C2D SFF Monetvina/Penryn running at 1.6GHz will cost $284. The processor alone costs almost as much as an Eec PC.

I'm not saying one size fits all, I'm saying that something that is smaller is more portable. Everything is a trade off and some people will find smaller keyboard acceptable, but the point of a laptop is portability.

You need to study the concept of objectivity. The statement "The MBA is designed as a hybrid being a fully-functional business-class notebook and being very portable yet performs as well as a yet old MB." is full of value judgements and cannot be objective. Saying something is more portable if it is smaller is a statement of logical fact as is saying that a laptop is designed to be portable.

I didn't say the MBA was overpriced relative to a netbook I said it was overpriced for what it was, that it was poor value.

You are arguing that a smaller footprint on the MBA would still mean it could be as useful even with a small screen and keyboard. You might be willing to sacrifice full size keys because you have small hands or don't type much or some other reason, but there are plenty of people who type all day and don't want a half size keys and an 8" display to do important work on. To change that aspect would change the market it's aimed for. Netbooks have their purpose, but they are not designed for that.

The comparisons between the netbook and the air seem to miss a few things. The current netbooks have about 1/4th the processing power as the Air and some models have about as much storage as I have on my camcorder's SDHC cards. The Atom processors do not have anywhere near the performance as the chip that's in the Air, which is a lower power consuming version of the standard notebook chip, not a chip that's pretending to be a competitor to ARM.

I'm not getting either kind of as I do like to watch DVDs.

you can get an external superdrive for that

I fly quite a bit too. Here is the problem with the MacBook Air or should I say what Apple should have built. The MBA foot print is too big.

A sub-notebook form (footprint must be small!), thin, removable battery or a very long battery life of 16+ hours of use with the screen one notch above no backlight. I would sacrifice speed and gpu power to obtain those goals. Do that, and you have a winner no matter what it comes with or doesn't come with.

Look at the MBA. The trackpad is as big as the screen. I agree as I stated above, A smaller footprint and they have plenty of places to take it from starting with that football field below the keyboard.

Shaw Wu's estimates are priced for perfection, 31.5 times the amount of calendar year 2009 earnings estimate. Can anything go wrong? Sure! To name just a few:

1) An economic slowdown with fewer jobs, higher interest rates, higher gas and heating costs, falling value of mortgaged homes, and credit restrictions for home buyers in a declining market;

2) Macs are $300 to $500 too expensive when compared with Windows and Ubuntu Linux computers;

3) iPhones come with a prohibitively expensive cell phone service contract, thanks to rumored royalty payments to Apple;

4) Steve Jobs' health is not improving. He looks like my 69 year old father 2 months before his death from cancer. And neither Steve Jobs, nor Apple, nor any member of the Apple board of directors will come on record with a public statement on Steve Jobs' health and cancer survival prospects, the reason being that they don't want to be sued for damages should Steve Jobs die from cancer in the coming year.

It's sad to say, but Steve Jobs seems to have decided that he would die on the job.

Look at the component make up of AIR and convince me there is anything advanced in that machine beyond the processor packaging. The pricing on AIR is a massive joke.

Dave

Again with this BS. You find me one Windows or Ubuntu Linux computer that is $300 cheaper than the an equivalent Mac.


Starting a rumour doesn't make it true. The iPhone is no more expensive than any other smartphone on AT&T plan, and the data package is on par with other US carriers.


The US has a 72yo running for President of the US and you're biggest concern is with a 53yo CEO of a company. You act as if he's an old man who can't run the company and assume that no one else has been groomed to take over as CEO.

Then why don't you convince us that it's a $700 notebook by breaking down the parts and R&D. Since we don't have actual prices on the chip packaging, go ahead and use $284 for the new chip at that speed and package, which is bound to be cheaper than what is in there right now.

Oh you must mean how the canceled iPhone 1 before dropping the price.

In this case though I do believe they will cancel the product soon. They will do this to limit their exposure to warranty issues and law suits. It may or may not get replaced with an updated unit.

The funny thing with AiR is that it from all appearnces does have hardware issues worthy of pursuit. IPhone 3G on the other hand is pretty solid hardware wise but people sue over it's performance for no validated reason.

I don't mean to sound like an a$$ either but AIR is a very limited machine and debuted when smaller more capable machines hit the market. It as a computing device certainly has it's niche but that niche isn't big enough to justfy production. It is like the Cube in many ways.

By the way I believe AIR is saveable as a platform. To do that though Apple needs to leap over a few hurdles. One is processor performance, AIR needs to be able to consitantly run it's processor at full speed. The second issue is I/O which has already been exponded upon.

Dave

I think that after SL is released the MBA will move to a cheaper dual core Atom chip and the price will drop below $1000.

You've hit on some really good points. I've always believed that Apple's R&D 2 years ago should have gone in to exactly that- an utra small portable without the phone. The phone industry is so fickle and all we've heard is complaints of the call quality, etc, etc, etc. Apple could have been leading in this department and instead will be following it. The iPod Touch is cool but a fraction of all that I want. Hopefully one will be coming out this fall and/or at least by MacWorld Jan. If not I may be forced to buy a Sony Vaio TZ and not have the Apple OS. I want something small and full functioned not a cafeteria- sized tray that's impaired.

The processors in the is only around $284 and $316, while the fastest Atom chips are $70 and $135. Coincidently, the Atom chips are the same respective speeds as the current Air, but the drop in performance would make it incredibly slow. This would be a very costly change and completely alter the market it's aimed at. There is plenty of room for Apple to keep the MBA at the top end of an ultra-lightweight notebook and have a UMPC for a tablet Mac using Atom. They don't have to destroy one to make the other.

That's a F*#k up comparison.
John MacCain looks robust and healthy. His mother is 96 and could run rings around most 60 year olds I've ever met. SJobs on the other hand and sorry to say this- does not. Big difference. He's not looking healthy to say it kindly.
My point is age does not make a difference and is relative and those remarks are age discriminatory.

It was a failure from the start. There is only so big people are willing to go without an optical drive and stuff. If it doesn't have the extras like an optical drive then people expect and want it to be mini sized like the gadgets above. If it is going to be as big as the MBA (which is still essentially as big as a PowerBook/MacBook), then people expect it to come with everything you need for an "8 hour work day". An 8 hour work day for many is not just sitting behind a desk for 8 hours and opening Word files and exchanging emails

What does it have to offer besides being a bit slimmer? Nothing really. Oh wait. It is prohibitively expensive. Actually that I AM RICH iPhone application would've been perfect for the MBA.


.

Are you trying to balance a cafeteria tray in your hand or catching light for your solar panel?

SSSSSssssssss- luv it!

Current MBA's at least $300 off on Apple's refurb site. This could mean the end of the MBA </sarcasm>

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPL...m=CertifiedMac

I guess the Air suffers from being a bleeding edge machine that is 200 days old. It will probably just converge with the MacBook (as MacBooks get thinner) which would be a very cool thing.

But a MacBook Mini would be a better business case for a third laptop. $500 Apple tax is a lot to wear on a laptop. $200 Apple tax is not a lot on a super portable. A mini laptop won't cannibalize laptop / desktop sales (since you still need a real computer) and iPhones would still sell (since they are portable). The market would be business travelers, students, etc.

Also, some workers (programmers and scientists, or graphic designers who are forced to work in a Windows shop) like to take their MacBook in to work, and plug it into work monitor / keyboards . A smaller macbook would make this a lot more viable.

I'm with you Joe, also a perfect MBA customer. I use mine for emails, surfing, KEYNOTE (none of that Powerpoint crap), MSN and charging my iPhone from time-to-time. I travel a lot within the city, and overseas so its the perfect fit. I have a desktop for the large stuff!

I agree to what most are saying, its a niche market need that Apple play in very well indeed.

Bloody analysts......

You are 100% wrong. It is custom chip made specifically for the MBA.

Technically, it's an 'old' processor in a custom package.

If SL improves system performance then overall feel might not be that bad.

The cost savings might be $200. That's nothing to sneeze at. Admittedly they still have a ways to go to get it under $1000.

Dual core atom netbooks will only undercut MBA sales even more. The product needs repositioning IMO.

oh my god already Apple! Would ya just make a SMALLER laptop or a larger iPod Touch or both ALREADY! Obviously there has been a BIG ENOUGH market for this since the end of the 12" iBooks and Powerbooks! One size does not fit all needs just as one chromatic Nano doesn't fit all color tastes. As Apple fans, we've been hearing Apple should make a netbook size device or a mini-tablet (look at the Archos 5!) for way too long now. Just do it already Apple...It's really not rocket science.

Why doesn't the iPod Touch come in different screen sizes (that a whole web page fits on) and could still fit in a pocket? (Nokia N810, Archos 5 60G) I wrote this on my MBA which is nice but still too big!

Or maybe a 40-something spoiled over taxing marxist running for Prez. This is about Apple..let's stay on topic!

Amen.
We want an ultra-portable not just a portable.

With an ignorant comment like that, nobody, including John McCain, would take anything you say serious.