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Next-gen MacBook shipments begin ahead of 'sharp ramp' - Page 3

post #81 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by sennen View Post

as per usual there are many unrealistic expectations of both apple's pricing and specifications.

Absolutely. No one's even bothered to point out that a $799. MacBook kills the Mac Mini off entirely.
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post #82 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Absolutely. No one's even bothered to point out that a $799. MacBook kills the Mac Mini off entirely.

The Mac wha-

ohhhh

I keep forgetting that the Mini exists...
post #83 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Absolutely. No one's even bothered to point out that a $799. MacBook kills the Mac Mini off entirely.

Well yes, they could either kill the Mini, or stop overcharging for it by $200-$300. Problem solved Hell, kill the Apple TV while they're at it and add an HDMI port to the Mac Mini, sell it for a reasonable $399 and let it serve both purposes.
post #84 of 288
Those ideas work.

Let's just hope they do SOMETHING.
post #85 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

Perhaps it hasn't occurred to you, but perhaps people stay Mac users for life because Apple produces higher end computers. If it were to cut out features, maybe some of the Mac experience that you love so much would be cut out as well. Apple is selling more Macs then it ever has sold. I don't see any reason to sacrifice margins as long as this trend continues to hold. If it were to cut prices, it should be more because the US economy is hurting and it wants to make sure computers sell for the Holiday. I, however, am skeptical Apple is intending to sacrifice margins on it's Macs. I think Oppemheimer was referring to margin cuts in it's iPod lines. As we have seen Apple lowered the prices there, but increased the features. More specifically, I think he was referring to the iPod Touch.

Not really higher end computers... but a higher end computing experience, which has far more to do with the software than the hardware. And they can put that "experience" on any Mac, even one that is not extremely high-end. It will still be better than the PC competition, but instead of less than 10% of users getting that experience, Mac could come to dominate the market. Instead of 7%, think 70%. I think it's time for Apple to make it's move.
post #86 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

By competitor's standards, the current $1099 MacBook would be fairly-priced at $700, maybe $800 if you want to give Apple an extra benjamin for elegant design and software.



Eh, this seems aggressive to me; in many ways, those specs match or outshine Apple's $1999 offerings. A groin-burning aluminum case and LED backlighting isn't really enough to justify $999.

If you think that the Sony at $999 is worth more than the MB at $1099, then buy the Sony and be happy with your purchase. Though, I doubt that you really believe this is the case as you frequent an Apple forum. This means that the MB at $1099 is a better deal than the Sony at $999, regardless of the specs of the two computers.
post #87 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denton View Post

If you think that the Sony at $999 is worth more than the MB at $1099, then buy the Sony and be happy with your purchase. Though, I doubt that you really believe this is the case as you frequent an Apple forum. This means that the MB at $1099 is a better deal than the Sony at $999, regardless of the specs of the two computers.

You can't be happy with a purchase when you know you are sacrificing something like the Mac OS.
post #88 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by diskimage View Post

I am with you, but unfortunately I doubt it. The consumer laptop gets consumer graphics.\

I wish I could pull the optical drive out of mine and swap it for a good graphics card.

unfortunately even that is wrong. Even high-end GPUs like ATI mobile 4800 series or Nvidia 8800/9800M series are consumer cards. Can you even get a professional Nvidia Quadro or ATI FireGL card on a Macbook PRo?
post #89 of 288
Finally some good news. But what about the MBP? And October 14 prediction for notebook updates does not seem to go well with this report.

Well I am curious with GPUs in upcoming MBs and MBPs. With Snow Leopard going to be released next year, which would supposedly take extra gigaflops from GPU to do some general purpose computation, I am wondering if Apple wants to put really good GPUs in MBs and MBPs. Otherwise people who buy notebooks now won't be able to harness the Snow Leopard, when it is going to be released in not so distant future.
post #90 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogue27 View Post

$999 with solid state drives would be awesome. I just hope they don't skimp on the graphics again.

I would be astounded if the new MacBook doesn't have the Intel 4500 (yuck), great for battery life though.
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post #91 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by winterspan View Post

unfortunately even that is wrong. Even high-end GPUs like ATI mobile 4800 series or Nvidia 8800/9800M series are consumer cards. Can you even get a professional Nvidia Quadro or ATI FireGL card on a Macbook PRo?

This is not true. There are no PC laptops (no trusted brands anyway) at $999 that have 4800 or 8800 chips. Most PC gaming laptops still use only a 9500 or 3600 Radeon.

I'm sick of the crying and whining about graphics chips when most MacBook buyers don't even need something as slow as the X3100. Why would anyone want to play serious games or do serious graphics work on a MacBook anyway?
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post #92 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by applebook View Post

I'm sick of the crying and whining about graphics chips when most MacBook buyers don't even need something as slow as the X3100. Why would anyone want to play serious games or do serious graphics work on a MacBook anyway?

Sims 3 + Spore
post #93 of 288
I think a $1,000+ laptop should include decent graphics.

Ah well.
post #94 of 288
When I clicked on this article an embedded advert for this HP laptop came up...

http://www.pcworld.co.uk/martprd/edi...y_adcon_B-R_F6

Now that's what I call aggressive pricing.
post #95 of 288
It's all ridiculous.
post #96 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

The article says that $650 gets you:
15.4" 1280x800 screen
2Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo
3GB RAM
250GB hard drive
webcam, integrated graphics

And that $999 gets you:
15.4" 1280x800 screen
2Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo
4GB RAM
250GB hard drive
Blu-Ray reader, DVD & CD burning capabilities
webcam, integrated graphics



Presently with Apple, $1099 gets you:
13" 1280x800 screen
2.1Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo
1GB RAM
120GB hard drive
DVD reader with CD burning capabilities
webcam, integrated graphics


I understand that the Macbook is a pound-and-a-half lighter, has more L2 cache, and Mac OS X/iLife 08, but seriously here. The MacBook costs 40% more than the Sony and has half the hard drive space, two inches less screen, and a third the RAM.

you are comparing the macbook that was released in February to a notebook that may have been released yesterday. when apple releases a new product it is always competitively priced. the problem with apple, and why this argument continues to work, is they don't incrementally update their laptops like other companies, so in 6 months when apple is offering the same laptop, sony or hp or dell have already had 4 or 5 revisions to their lineup. but in a few weeks when apple releases new laptops, they will be priced aggressively to what is out there now.
post #97 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICD-EVIL View Post

I want to be the first to predict a LOW priced, watered down Macbook. I'm talking $699-$750. Something to make people think even more about a Mac. We all know that a Mac, even with sub-entry-level specs, is better than a high end vista machine, but the general public doesn't, and when they are the same price, people will pick the machine with better harware.

I think Jobs & Co. realize this and will choose to market their MB to a wider range of consumers this time around.

Will be waiting awhile for them as they will be flying off the shelf. Will be hard to keep in stock for the first while.

If they come in anywhere near that will be buying one just because it is too good to pass up. Heck, might even get 2

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post #98 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denton View Post

If you think that the Sony at $999 is worth more than the MB at $1099, then buy the Sony and be happy with your purchase. Though, I doubt that you really believe this is the case as you frequent an Apple forum. This means that the MB at $1099 is a better deal than the Sony at $999, regardless of the specs of the two computers.

The Sony has a 2" larger screen, twice the hard drive space and three times more RAM for a 40% lower price than the MacBook! Is it that unreasonable to expect Apple close the price/performance gap to say, a 20% premium? I'm not going to buy the Sony; I'm going to wait until Apple's offerings are more in line with competition, and I would expect other smart shoppers to do the same. One has to draw the line somewhere, or we'd be back in the days when a 60Hz PowerPC with 8MB of RAM cost $2,000, without a monitor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chadisawesome View Post

you are comparing the macbook that was released in February to a notebook that may have been released yesterday. when apple releases a new product it is always competitively priced. the problem with apple, and why this argument continues to work, is they don't incrementally update their laptops like other companies, so in 6 months when apple is offering the same laptop, sony or hp or dell have already had 4 or 5 revisions to their lineup. but in a few weeks when apple releases new laptops, they will be priced aggressively to what is out there now.

Right. I am showing where I would expect the new MacBook's to fall relative to the competition, and to highlight that $999 isn't really an aggressive pricepoint anymore. I think we lose sight of how cheap computer components have really gotten when we only observe our little Mac world.
post #99 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

I'm going to wait until Apple's offerings are more in line with competition, and I would expect other smart shoppers to do the same.

Exactly right. It's getting a little extreme.
post #100 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

The article says that $650 gets you:
15.4" 1280x800 screen
2Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo
3GB RAM
250GB hard drive
webcam, integrated graphics

And that $999 gets you:
15.4" 1280x800 screen
2Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo
4GB RAM
250GB hard drive
Blu-Ray reader, DVD & CD burning capabilities
webcam, integrated graphics



Presently with Apple, $1099 gets you:
13" 1280x800 screen
2.1Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo
1GB RAM
120GB hard drive
DVD reader with CD burning capabilities
webcam, integrated graphics


I understand that the Macbook is a pound-and-a-half lighter, has more L2 cache, and Mac OS X/iLife 08, but seriously here. The MacBook costs 40% more than the Sony and has half the hard drive space, two inches less screen, and a third the RAM.

I agree with you. The mac laptops need to come down in price to stay competitive. Sure OSX/iLife is leaps and bounds beyond anything else. But if Apple wants to be competitive it needs to offer hardware with the same markups as Sony, Dell and others.
post #101 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishyesque View Post

Exactly right. It's getting a little extreme.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

I agree with you. The mac laptops need to come down in price to stay competitive. Sure OSX/iLife is leaps and bounds beyond anything else. But if Apple wants to be competitive it needs to offer hardware with the same markups as Sony, Dell and others.

You're missing the part where he is comparing a Mac that came out in February to a Sony that is only available for pre-order. Or that the entry level price is to get you in the door and then up sell you on HW that costs the same but they charge more for because it looks like a better deal. It's all explained, right down to those Sony's using the old hat 65nm Merom processors. Since Apple's prices are consistent with their entire line since they don't do the bait and upsell or deal with older or inferior chipsets that appear to the layman as being "as good" you have to compare similar machines. If you aren't doing that then you are just fooling yourself. That is to say, if you did buy that Sony and didn't change anything on the build you would be getting a machine that is a better value than what Apple offers on a piece-by-piece comparison, but only on that single entry level configuration.
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post #102 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

$999 is not agressive.


Uh huh, but it's aggressive.
post #103 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

You're missing the part where he is comparing a Mac that came out in February to a Sony that is only available for pre-order. Or that the entry level price is to get you in the door and then up sell you on HW that costs the same but they charge more for because it looks like a better deal. It's all explained, right down to those Sony's using the old hat 65nm Merom processors. Since Apple's prices are consistent with their entire line since they don't do the bait and upsell or deal with older or inferior chipsets that appear to the layman as being "as good" you have to compare similar machines. If you aren't doing that then you are just fooling yourself. That is to say, if you did buy that Sony and didn't change anything on the build you would be getting a machine that is a better value than what Apple offers on a piece-by-piece comparison, but only on that single entry level configuration.

Yeah I know.

I would suppose most of the misconception that macs are overpriced are based on this faulty comparison of laptops that just came out vs. 6 month old macs.
post #104 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

Yeah I know.

I would suppose most of the misconception that macs are overpriced are based on this faulty comparison of laptops that just came out vs. 6 month old macs.

That is an issue with Macs, The OEMs will do those incremental updates and Apple sticks to it's 6 to 8 month update cycle that follows Intel's releases. The MBA was unusual for Apple as it actually lowered the price of the SSD after other vendors started offering them at a lower price a couple months down the road.

PS: I think we may be seeing a wider range of MacBook CPU configurations from Apple this time around. My reasoning is that Apple has been using only a handful of Intel chips for its entire Mac line. The MB currently only uses 2 different chips and the MBP 3 different chips, and the same 2.4GHz chip is used in both the high-end MB and low-end MBP.

This limited build option may be simple but it could be causing some production delays and pushing back releases of new Macs as their sales keep exploding. Other vendors do the bulk of their sales on the lower end so they don't need as many of the new Intel chips as Apple does out of the gate. When Apple starts selling Montevina/Penryn you can bet their stores will be stocked with display models for testing and machines you can take home that day, not a BTO option where you wait 10 days for it to be shipped from the factory in Hanoi.

With all this growth either Apple has to use more chips to keep Intel's production from being constrained too much, Apple has to just wait a little longer than other OEMs before converting their line, or Intel has to make special accommodations for Apple.
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post #105 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

You're missing the part where he is comparing a Mac that came out in February to a Sony that is only available for pre-order. Or that the entry level price is to get you in the door and then up sell you on HW that costs the same but they charge more for because it looks like a better deal. It's all explained, right down to those Sony's using the old hat 65nm Merom processors.

I'm still waiting for clarification from you on that point. And as I said above, I realize I'm comparing an end-of-life Mac to a brand new Sony, but the point is to show where Apple is now with price/performance, and where they need to go with their next model.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Since Apple's prices are consistent with their entire line since they don't do the bait and upsell or deal with older or inferior chipsets that appear to the layman as being "as good" you have to compare similar machines.

Isn't that what the Mac Mini is? Don't you have to spend no less than $2300 just to get a desktop with expansion slots? And $2800 just to get a 17" screen on a notebook?

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

If you aren't doing that then you are just fooling yourself. That is to say, if you did buy that Sony and didn't change anything on the build you would be getting a machine that is a better value than what Apple offers on a piece-by-piece comparison, but only on that single entry level configuration.

Oh I don't know about that. The next model up in the Sony line, with Blu-Ray playback and 4GB of RAM for $999, doesn't look too shabby either.
post #106 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

I'm still waiting for clarification from you on that point.

I went to a lot of trouble breaking down the different processors in regards to the technology and how older PCU is being pared with a new package. I can't be anymore through. If it's an explanation of what the different terms means and how they affect performance I don't have the time or patience to go into that.

Quote:
Isn't that what the Mac Mini is?

The Mac Mini is a desktop machine built with notebook-grade components. It's small size means it costs more. You can build your own PC version and it will cost the same or a little more than the Mini, depending on the OS used. It is, however, dreadfully outdated. It hasn't been refreshed ina about a year. I figure Apple may replace it with something else next month as it's not a bad move to draw out an item that you are about to retire. You get a few more sales before your product is ready and it makes the new one look that much better in comparison.

Quote:
I don't know about that. The next model up in the Sony line, with Blu-Ray playback and 4GB of RAM for $999, doesn't look too shabby either.

Then go for it. You still aren't looking at equivalent HW. Since Apple is limited in their options why not take a Mac and then match it to another vendor with equivalent HW, not cheapest from a vendor to cheapest from Apple.
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post #107 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

You still aren't looking at equivalent HW. Since Apple is limited in their options why not take a Mac and then match it to another vendor with equivalent HW, not cheapest from a vendor to cheapest from Apple.

Sony has often been considered one of the more expensive vendors, but ok then:

Apple MacBook $1099
2.1Ghz T8100, 800Mhz FSB, 3MB Cache
1GB RAM
120GB Hard Drive
Play DVDs, Burn CDs
Webcam, Bluetooth, Wifi


Dell XPS M1330 $1099
2.4Ghz T8300, 800Mhz FSB, 3MB Cache
3GB RAM
320GB Hard Drive
Burn DVDs, Burn CDs
Webcame, Bluetooth, Wifi
post #108 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Downloading update as I speak. Now restarting.

LOLs wrong thread...
post #109 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by belunos View Post

Meh, I gots my mac pro for the heavy stuff, I'd be happy with a watered down, very portable, very cheap macbook

You mean an Air for half the price!
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post #110 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

I'm still waiting for clarification from you on that point. And as I said above, I realize I'm comparing an end-of-life Mac to a brand new Sony, but the point is to show where Apple is now with price/performance, and where they need to go with their next model.

When you compare next, the odds are that you will find that the MB is very price competitive with the Sony. Which part of that is hard to understand? It's a bad time to buy a MB today. When it refreshes it's a good time.

Quote:
Oh I don't know about that. The next model up in the Sony line, with Blu-Ray playback and 4GB of RAM for $999, doesn't look too shabby either.

Except that the MB will likely be a 2.26Ghz machine. Until Sony releases with real pricing it still can be changed.

The Sony VAIO NR with those specs is $849.99 on SonyStyle. No webcam, no BT, no FW400 but does come with an expresscard slot which is nice.

The Sony VAIO SR is more expensive than the MacBook and is equally comparable as the MacBook straddles the NR/SR lines.

Current model vs current model the MacBook is price competitive with the Sony line.

The 2.4 Ghz 2GB RAM 160GB HDD VGN-SR190 is $1,374 on SonyStyle (BTO) vs the MacBook 2.4Ghz 2GB RAM 160GB HDD at $1,299.
post #111 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Absolutely. No one's even bothered to point out that a $799. MacBook kills the Mac Mini off entirely.

I'm not sure if your right about that. I recently bought a Mac Mini with the Apple wireless keyboard and wireless mouse and I get a much bigger screen and it's almost always totally silent,running.No matter what I'm doing (ten things running at once,including video playback) it doesn't get hot or slow down.And I don't have to worry about dropping and bashing it and the resulting expensive repairs.I always have it plugged in to a great sound set-up.I know you can hook up a similar set-up with a laptop but that is likely to be by plugging it in and out all the time.It also makes for a less cluttered desk.Plus,because I already had the monitor and speakers,I saved about $100 over the unlikely price of $799 (maybe it will be started at $999) for the new base model Macbook.It's also satisfying that I didn't waste my money on extra performance,when it's done everything I've needed it to,withought any trouble.My iPhone is fine for me when I'm away from home.
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post #112 of 288
October makes sense since Europe just started their BTS promo... Man I was hoping for September though...
post #113 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by c.dub View Post

October makes sense since Europe just started their BTS promo... Man I was hoping for September though...

Me 2.
post #114 of 288
Some of you don't seem to understand the laptop market.

15" and the new 16" formats with slightly better technology generally sell for LESS than 13" notebooks. This is just the way things are. Smaller is usually more expensive, unless the product is seriously limited, like netbooks.

Also, $1,000 these days does not buy you great laptop graphics chips. Most $1000 and under PC laptops also come with mediocre graphics, but this is to improve battery life more than just lower production costs. Most consumers do not need anything more than an X3100.

As for the Sony Vaio line, most of the models do not even have DVI-out, which is mandatory for any serious notebook. Even the Air has a DVI-out adapter. In order to get DVI-out, you are forced to purchase Sony's $199 dock I was considering a 12-14" Sony for awhile (to Hackintosh), but the lack of digital output is a deal breaker.

I had a new 16" Sony FW series and will tell you: while the CPU is outstanding (speed + incredibly low heat, idle 35C, medium load at 40C!), the standard screen is AWFUL, and the overall build quality is garbage compared to a MacBook Pro.
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post #115 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by zigzaglens View Post

Uhh really? So .. "life savings" just goes in a mattress somewhere?

Careful! In some families, the phrase "going to the mattresses" has a VERY different meaning!
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post #116 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

LOLs wrong thread...

Or, just plain old WRONG!
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post #117 of 288
My predictions...

1) Slight bump in specs across the board
2) Case re-design (a given) and multi-touch across the board
3) $100 price drop for each level of MB and MBP
4) Larger price drop for MBA
post #118 of 288
Some ppl should just go buy PC laptops if the specs appeal to them more. For me, OSX in itself is enough to more than justify any real or perceived price difference between mb/mbp's and pc's. Flowing on from that then is the ability to use Apple's pro-Apps, which combined with their hardware makes a stable, reliable working environment that can't be matched elsewhere, imo.

IF apple decides to price more aggressively, then of course they will be seen to be more accessible. but i don't think that their hardware is over-priced, all things (such as engineering, design, software development etc) considered.
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post #119 of 288


The Mini is over priced beyond all reason.
post #120 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by sennen View Post

Some ppl should just go buy PC laptops if the specs appeal to them more. For me, OSX in itself is enough to more than justify any real or perceived price difference between mb/mbp's and pc's. Flowing on from that then is the ability to use Apple's pro-Apps, which combined with their hardware makes a stable, reliable working environment that can't be matched elsewhere, imo.

IF apple decides to price more aggressively, then of course they will be seen to be more accessible. but i don't think that their hardware is over-priced, all things (such as engineering, design, software development etc) considered.

Well in that case, maybe you could toss an extra five-hundred bucks my way, since that's how much it costs to get an equally-equipped Apple laptop, and you don't seem to be all too concerned with giving out free money
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