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Microsoft may have thrown Apple an iPod nano headache - Page 2

post #41 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by techfreak85 View Post

my friend got a 4 gig ipod touch.

He got it or he made it ?
post #42 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by awmawm View Post

I thought all roads lead to Rome

That's Redmond.
post #43 of 86
Aah, finally, Microsoft is starting to get things right again. It means MSoft got the right people in developing Zune cause some of the ideas (features) in Zune is pretty creative.

Their new Ad is also okay, although it doesnt really tell the advantage of PC, its just a bunch of people saying Im a PC and ??????. Much better then their Mojave and Bill and Sein Part 1, Part 2 was erm.....better?
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post #44 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by techfreak85 View Post

my friend got a 4 gig ipod touch.

Not how..... why?
post #45 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by nofear1az View Post

Then go get your Zune then.... enjoy the Microsoft Marketplace with the point system that takes more of your money. enjoy yourself! We won't miss you!


Seriously do not understand why so many people forgive Microsoft and defend them when *clearly* Microsoft is about winning and not about innovation or even caring about their own products. Look at a brown Zune and tell me they really care about you as a consumer. Please, whatever Apple or someone on the block that creates the next cool toy, Microsoft is right behind them to copy it in the worst way possible. It's like buying an iPod look-a-like made in/from China and saying it's way better than an iPod and think the product will actually be around when the next cool thing arrives. Please, give me a break!


Just for the Record. Your iPod, iPhone and iPod Touch are made in China, so please just give me a break when posting, The basis of your statement Stabs Apple right in the heart.
post #46 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

Zunes don't use WMP (at least not anymore). Zunes have used their own specialized software since the 2.0 firmware. It's not exactly what I would call 100% user-friendly, but I found it more bearable than iTunes which has grown into a bloated pig over the years.

And yeah, wireless sync would be kickass on my iPod touch.



Why so hostile? I don't show blind alegiance to any one company -- in fact, I don't really give a crap about companies, I care about their products.

As for the Zune Marketplace, pfff. I scoff at it and iTunes. I buy all of my music from the Amazon MP3 store. Cheaper downloads and DRM free -- just the way it should be. And it integrates nicely with iTunes, so I can't complain.

The only thing I use iTunes for (purchasing) is for the Apps Store.

My hat goes off to you for posting pure logic. It's not the Vendor, it's the technology.
I want the Best X Product I can buy, I dont' care if it's made by WalMart.

Apple is getting Lazy, iTunes is a PIG and the latest software releases have been unstable, unworthy and nothing more than a live BETA.

Not to mention charging $99 for Mobile Me. for it's worth it should be given away free.
At least Google keeps "Beta" on it's software until it's ready for release.

Lost more faith today in Apple and have a 512Ke for sale that I was keeping because it was my first Mac.
post #47 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by awmawm View Post

Same here. I have not bought a single song from iTunes but still use it to organize my library. Yes, there are better applications than iTunes but none of them make it easy enough to sync with our family's ipods (and now even Blackberries!).

Could not agree more. Since last Saturday, and a 12 DRM stipping session, I am Amazon all the way. If Amazon doesn't have it, I find other ways to get it. I only use iTunes to organize my music, and the App Store. Occasionally a movie or two and I am looking at a way to get rid of the DRM on those as well. Once I find a solution, iTunes will see less and less of my money.
post #48 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by walshbj View Post

I can walk to the end of my driveway and be closer to Dublin, but it doesn't mean much.

Hahaha..
post #49 of 86
...If you say so... only the 16GB models? Sounds less like the almost unheard of Zune and more like a flash memory shortage. But hey, what do I know? I've have seen one whole Zune in the wild since they came out, a Brown 30. I cannot get through my day without seeing a nano ear-budded to someone, yes, specifically a nano.
"Picasso had a saying, 'Good artists copy, great artists steal.' And we've always been shameless about stealing great ideas."
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"Picasso had a saying, 'Good artists copy, great artists steal.' And we've always been shameless about stealing great ideas."
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post #50 of 86
I still think the iPod range is the best looking but the competition is definately catching up. I'm not keen on the Zune but I like the new Sony Walkman range - they have received good reviews for sound quality.

I was a bit disappointed with some of the things Apple left out of their recent updates. I was hoping to see the addition of a wirless option for wireless headphones and more songs available in iTunes Plus 256k DRM free format.
post #51 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

Could not agree more. Since last Saturday, and a 12 DRM stipping session, I am Amazon all the way. If Amazon doesn't have it, I find other ways to get it. I only use iTunes to organize my music, and the App Store. Occasionally a movie or two and I am looking at a way to get rid of the DRM on those as well. Once I find a solution, iTunes will see less and less of my money.

And the reason (good reason's now) - why DRM music isn't available on iTunes is what?

Skip
post #52 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncee View Post

And the reason (good reason's now) - why DRM [free] music isn't available on iTunes is what?

The studios, except for EMI, aren't allowing Apple to sell DRM-free audio.


04-MAR-2002 — Jobs talks about the pitfalls of DRM* (source)
(2003)
(2004)
(2005)
(2006)
06-FEB-2007 — Steve Jobs writes open letter to abolish DRM (source)
11-FEB-2007 — Warner CEO calls Jobs' DRM stance "completely without logic or merit" (source)
02-APR-2007 — EMI music on iTunes Store is now DRM free (source)
16-MAY-2007 — Amazon announced DRM free music with EMI (source)
10-AUG-2007 — Universal agrees to sell DRM-free music through Amazon (source)
25-SEP-2007 — Amazon launches its MP3 service (source)
27-DEC-2007 — Warner agrees to sell DRM-free music through Amazon (source)
10-JAN-2008 — Sony BMG agrees to sell DRM-free music through Amazon (source)



How 'bout them Apples?

* Steve Jobs in 2002 said, "If you legally acquire music, you need to have the right to manage it on all other devices that you own."
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post #53 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The studios, except for EFI, aren't offering Apple DRM-free audio.

And this isn't against the law in some way? If it's available, then it's available - right?

There must be a law against this, but Apple must not want to rock the boat. Hell they don't have as much DRM music as many of us want, and they still have 80+ percent of the market.

I mean, wouldn't this be like Apple, Sears, Best Buy or anyone selling you a product, and then when I walk into make the same purchase, saying "Sorry we can't sell it to you because, we don't want to"?

S
post #54 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncee View Post

And this isn't against the law in some way? If it's available, then it's available - right?

There must be a law against this, but Apple must not want to rock the boat. Hell they don't have as much DRM music as many of us want, and they still have 80+ percent of the market.

I mean, wouldn't this be like Apple, Sears, Best Buy or anyone selling you a product, and then when I walk into make the same purchase, saying "Sorry we can't sell it to you because, we don't want to"?

S

On the surface it does look like the studios are giving an unfair advantage to Amazon but we have no idea what Amazon had to agree to in order to get the deal they got. The studios could easily say that they would love to offer DRM-free tracks to iTS, but Apple won't agree to their terms. Just like with Apple choosing not to sell certain apps, there is nothing illegal about the studios are doing.
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post #55 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

On the surface it does look like the studios are giving an unfair advantage to Amazon but we have no idea what Amazon had to agree to in order to get the deal they got. The studios could easily say that they would love to offer DRM-free tracks to iTS, but Apple won't agree to their terms. Just like with Apple choosing not to sell certain apps, there is nothing illegal about the studios are doing.

And DRM free, allows for coping and playing on as many things as I want right/ It doesn't have anything to do with the quality of the song / sound?

S
post #56 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncee View Post

And DRM free, allows for coping and playing on as many things as I want right/ It doesn't have anything to do with the quality of the song / sound?

S

It's just about how you can play the song. It's the Digital Rights Management.
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post #57 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncee View Post

And DRM free, allows for coping and playing on as many things as I want right/ It doesn't have anything to do with the quality of the song / sound?

S

Currently there three sure ways to DRM free music:
- iTunes+ files.
- buy a CD and rip them yourself.
- the jolly roger method (DRM encourages this).
Of course there are other sellers, but they really depend on you using MS-Windows. The first option is also struck off the list if you aren't using Windows or MacOS X, so I suppose that make two sure ways.
post #58 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmas View Post

Currently there three sure ways to DRM free music:
- iTunes+ files.
- buy a CD and rip them yourself.
- the jolly roger method (DRM encourages this).
Of course there are other sellers, but they really depend on you using MS-Windows. The first option is also struck off the list if you aren't using Windows or MacOS X, so I suppose that make two sure ways.

What about Amazon's MP3 store? They have an OS X client downloader...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/dmusic/help...ef=sv_dmusic_3
post #59 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmas View Post

Currently there three sure ways to DRM free music:
- iTunes+ files.
- buy a CD and rip them yourself.
- the jolly roger method (DRM encourages this).
Of course there are other sellers, but they really depend on you using MS-Windows. The first option is also struck off the list if you aren't using Windows or MacOS X, so I suppose that make two sure ways.

There is also the burning as an Audio CD. Since HDD space is cheap if you re-encode back into iTunes as AAC and higher than 192kbps you aren't going to lose any content that is discernible. DRM Dumpster will automate the entire process legally using iTunes and re-writable CD.
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post #60 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by walshbj View Post

I can walk to the end of my driveway and be closer to Dublin, but it doesn't mean much.

"And I can see Russia from my House!" -Tina Fey as Sara Palin.
post #61 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

What about Amazon's MP3 store? They have an OS X client downloader...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/dmusic/help...ef=sv_dmusic_3

Thanks for the heads-up, I wasn't aware of this one. They even support Linux!
post #62 of 86
I think MSFT probably did put pressure on Apple but Apple was already talking about reduced margins at the last quarterly call. So I think they knew what coming before the rumors hit - and make the decision to change the offering a little while ago. Maybe some of the materials where not up to date with the change.
post #63 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by junkie View Post

I think MSFT probably did put pressure on Apple but Apple was already talking about reduced margins at the last quarterly call. So I think they knew what coming before the rumors hit - and make the decision to change the offering a little while ago. Maybe some of the materials where not up to date with the change.

The margin drop was due to the big drop in the iTouch pricing.

It's also possible, if the rumors about Apple pricing the new MacBooks at $999 again are true, that that is also involved.

It's quite possible that a 16 GB Nano was unexpected.
post #64 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

The margin drop was due to the big drop in the iTouch pricing.

It's also possible, if the rumors about Apple pricing the new MacBooks at $999 again are true, that that is also involved.

It's quite possible that a 16 GB Nano was unexpected.

Based on the info at hand, I think the 16GB Nano was most likely a last minute decision. Based on Apple's growth and apparent saturation of the >$1,000 consumer market (among other factors) I think a $999 MB will probably occur.
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post #65 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Based on the info at hand, I think the 16GB Nano was most likely a last minute decision. Based on Apple's growth and apparent saturation of the >$1,000 consumer market (among other factors) I think a $999 MB will probably occur.

I'd like to see it.
post #66 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

Exactly, now maybe pressure from Microsoft can force Apple to implement wireless sync for the iPod touch and iPhone -- it can't be that hard to implement. I mean, the iPod touch/iPhone can already access your library wirelessly with the Remote.app.

That's one of the features that I miss from the Zune 30 that I had before upgrading to a 32GB iPod touch. Since my Zune stayed in my car most of the time hooked up with a car power adapter, my Zune would wirelessly sync while it was in my garage automatically without having to even take it out of my car.

Has anyone tried wireless sync on zune? How well does it work?

I know on iPhone, if the Wifi is on and data continously transfer between the PC and iPhone, the battery dies in less than one hour.

And if you plug in iPhone to a power socket and use wireless sync, that defeats the purpose.

So I would like to know - how does the Zune batter hold up with Wifi sync?
post #67 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

There is also the burning as an Audio CD. Since HDD space is cheap if you re-encode back into iTunes as AAC and higher than 192kbps you aren't going to lose any content that is discernible. DRM Dumpster will automate the entire process legally using iTunes and re-writable CD.

Why use a real CD? Use a virtual CD burner like Phantom Burner instead.

Unfortunately, it is available for Windows only.
post #68 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I'd like to see it.

Based on the evidence, I don't think Apple has any choice if it wishes to maintain its growth in the consumer sector. My question is, will it be for this holiday season with an out-of-the-gate $999 or lower MacBack or a drop in price across the board 9or at least across the MB line) announced at MacWorld 2009 after the, reportedly, new cases have had a few months to attract the early adopters at the higher price.
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post #69 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Based on the evidence, I don't think Apple has any choice if it wishes to maintain its growth in the consumer sector. My question is, will it be for this holiday season with an out-of-the-gate $999 or lower MacBack or a drop in price across the board 9or at least across the MB line) announced at MacWorld 2009 after the, reportedly, new cases have had a few months to attract the early adopters at the higher price.

I wish Apple has a EEE PC competitor.... can they do it? Basically, AppleTV with a 9" screen in a mini notebook form and SSD instead of HD for $300. Can we dream?
post #70 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The studios, except for EMI, aren't allowing Apple to sell DRM-free audio.


04-MAR-2002 Jobs talks about the pitfalls of DRM* (source)
(2003)
(2004)
(2005)
(2006)
06-FEB-2007 Steve Jobs writes open letter to abolish DRM (source)
11-FEB-2007 Warner CEO calls Jobs' DRM stance "completely without logic or merit" (source)
02-APR-2007 EMI music on iTunes Store is now DRM free (source)
16-MAY-2007 Amazon announced DRM free music with EMI (source)
10-AUG-2007 Universal agrees to sell DRM-free music through Amazon (source)
25-SEP-2007 Amazon launches its MP3 service (source)
27-DEC-2007 Warner agrees to sell DRM-free music through Amazon (source)
10-JAN-2008 Sony BMG agrees to sell DRM-free music through Amazon (source)



How 'bout them Apples?

* Steve Jobs in 2002 said, "If you legally acquire music, you need to have the right to manage it on all other devices that you own."

The funny thing is Apple isn't losing THAT much money on it given their business model and that Amazon makes it so easy to use with the iPod.
post #71 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnqh View Post

I wish Apple has a EEE PC competitor.... can they do it? Basically, AppleTV with a 9" screen in a mini notebook form and SSD instead of HD for $300. Can we dream?

But is that segment profitable? The latest reports show that netbooks, despite their low price account for a very small percent of the PC marketshare. I know the category is new, but because of the low price the profit is still low, even with Apple's average profit margin on Macs, so the volume would have to be considerably high.


Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

The funny thing is Apple isn't losing THAT much money on it given their business model and that Amazon makes it so easy to use with the iPod.

Good point. Since the iPod is so entrenched, all it's doing is reinforcing digital downloads and increasing the iPod's relevance. Now, if MS' Marketplace's subscription media gains traction then Apple should be worried, but I don't think even MS sees that as a possibility at this point.
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post #72 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

But is that segment profitable? The latest reports show that netbooks, despite their low price account for a very small percent of the PC marketshare. I know the category is new, but because of the low price the profit is still low, even with Apple's average profit margin on Macs, so the volume would have to be considerably high.
.

Take a look at Amazon's top sellers for computers. EEE PC occupies half of the top 10, squeezing Mac Mini to #5 (last time I checked).

And when you look at margin, it is important to look at it as %, instead of $. If the cost to Apple is $200 and sells for $300, that's 33% margin, in line with other Apple hardware.
post #73 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnqh View Post

Take a look at Amazon's top sellers for computers. EEE PC occupies half of the top 10, squeezing Mac Mini to #5 (last time I checked).

And when you look at margin, it is important to look at it as %, instead of $. If the cost to Apple is $200 and sells for $300, that's 33% margin, in line with other Apple hardware.

It's important to look at the total profit. 33% profit on a million units of an Acme widget seems like a lot until i tell you that the unit price is only 3¢. Apple would have to have 100% profit on a $300 netbook to make the same profit it makes from the average unit sale from a MB. Not to mention these netbooks are budget machines that doesn't seem to be getting any decent profit anyway.

Even so close to a refresh and reports of sales dropping, the MB is still #7 in sales on Amazon. Wait until the new Macs come out. I don't think we'll see one Asus besting any of Apple's MBs or 15" MBP models. However, regardless of how well sales look on Amazon they don't seem to represent the whole market. What B&M stores are selling netbooks right now?

PS: I'd love an official OS X netbook, but at least there is OSx86 for that with adequate drivers for Eee PC and MSI Wind since they don't.
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post #74 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnqh View Post

Has anyone tried wireless sync on zune? How well does it work?

I know on iPhone, if the Wifi is on and data continously transfer between the PC and iPhone, the battery dies in less than one hour.

And if you plug in iPhone to a power socket and use wireless sync, that defeats the purpose.

So I would like to know - how does the Zune batter hold up with Wifi sync?

Plugging it in to a wall socket doesn't totally defeat the purpose. Partially, yeah. I sync with a G5 that's upstairs. But I mostly charge downstairs. (they're some downsides to plugging an iPod into a G5 running Tiger) So if I could grab new podcasts before I leave without going upstairs, that would be nice. Really nice.
post #75 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnqh View Post

Has anyone tried wireless sync on zune? How well does it work?

I know on iPhone, if the Wifi is on and data continously transfer between the PC and iPhone, the battery dies in less than one hour.

And if you plug in iPhone to a power socket and use wireless sync, that defeats the purpose.

So I would like to know - how does the Zune batter hold up with Wifi sync?

Whenever a Zune comes in range of its host PC, it automatically wirelessly syncs. It's a simple as that.
post #76 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

Whenever a Zune comes in range of its host PC, it automatically wirelessly syncs. It's a simple as that.

That sounds like a bug, not a feature.
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post #77 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Based on the evidence, I don't think Apple has any choice if it wishes to maintain its growth in the consumer sector. My question is, will it be for this holiday season with an out-of-the-gate $999 or lower MacBack or a drop in price across the board 9or at least across the MB line) announced at MacWorld 2009 after the, reportedly, new cases have had a few months to attract the early adopters at the higher price.

With conditions being what they are, the psychological effect of dropping to $999 from $1,099 will be great. We've discussed the psychological effects of pricing before, as I'm sure you remember.

I'm not sure if Apple can do this across the line, though they often do lower prices after a while.
post #78 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnqh View Post

I wish Apple has a EEE PC competitor.... can they do it? Basically, AppleTV with a 9" screen in a mini notebook form and SSD instead of HD for $300. Can we dream?

The question is, should they?

I don't think the pricing would work anyway. The EEE doesn't have an SSD, by the way. It has soldered in (slow) flash chips. That's much cheaper.
post #79 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

The funny thing is Apple isn't losing THAT much money on it given their business model and that Amazon makes it so easy to use with the iPod.

I'm not sure Apple's losing any money. The numbers have been moving up nicely in music sales.
post #80 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnqh View Post

Take a look at Amazon's top sellers for computers. EEE PC occupies half of the top 10, squeezing Mac Mini to #5 (last time I checked).

And when you look at margin, it is important to look at it as %, instead of $. If the cost to Apple is $200 and sells for $300, that's 33% margin, in line with other Apple hardware.

But, you don't know the costs. It's highly doubtful that anyone could make $100 on a $300 product. $50 would be considered very good, and $25 would be more like it.

Don't throw "margin" around. You must use it properly. Gross margins mean one thing, and net margins, or profit, mean another. You can have good gross margins, and still not make a profit.

The percentage and the dollar result mean the same thing. They are just two different ways of expressing it.
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