Microsoft's 'I'm a PC' campaign created with Macs - Page 4

Oh that would be good

So according to you Apple ads may well be made on PCs? Yes, I can see Steve allowing that. NOT!

Welcome to Apple Insider by the way.

Steve will give his next keynote using Powerpoint

Did you even watch the ad? The ad itself is right in the middle of what you're talking about, keeping the flame lit.

What's interesting about the original issue is more how it involves simple human stupidity, not a PC vs Mac argument. In a war of words competition, once you are forced to start explaining yourself, you're sliding further into the losing corner. The whole idea of the commercial is bad marketing, regardless of execution. But that's so obvious as to be uninteresting. It's much funnier (perhaps sad) to see the smaller, more ironic error in corporate judgment.

Microsoft...

...so sad...

...glad I'm enlightened enough to use the only operating system that just WORKS.

Well, you have the same experience as I do, and basically added to what I was talking about. It all comes down to choosing the right platform/software for the job at hand. At the moment... and I'm not exactly sure we will ever see it... there is NO perfect, do-it-all operating system for everybody and everything. I won't go so far as to say impossible in the future... but HIGHLY unlikely.

Besides... competition is good unless your an old Marxist believer. Actually, I prefer using different systems and configs for different things, even when certain software is available for all platforms. Using Synergy (or KVM solution) and a multiple monitor environment is an extremely great way to go, believe me!

I don't have proof, but I used to work at Apple. Locate anyone who works at Apple HQ and ask them, they'll know. It's obvious anyway, it's not like it's easy/cheap to develop an in-house "Autocad" when there are very good tools out there to do industrial design that people in the field already use and understand, and that have had millions of dollars invested in them by their respective companies. It would just be an idiotic thing to do, kind of like Apple developing their own "in-house" router software and OS instead of using Cisco's. It's just not logical. But if you need proof I'm sure you can find it somehow. Hey, if it was that simple why do they still use PCs with Windows in the Apple Stores, and Windows Mobile to activate the iPhone?

Don't be an idiot, we're obviously talking about Windows and their PC products (I'm a PC?), which are the basis of their business. Yes Microsoft uses Macs to create Mac products and keep the Mac platform alive in their tiny Mac business unit which isn't a significant part of their business. Apple on the other hand uses PCs to create their very CORE products. Apple is a hardware company and it uses PCs to create that very hardware which is their core business. 'Nuff said.

I don't think solipsism is an "insider", probably works at the NSA. That would mean he has the keys to both MS's and Apple's back doors.

This goes to show you just how geeky Macs are, Apple misrepresents. It can be beyond frustrating to their newb user base to run into file incompatibility problems (they would have issues with Windows too, newbs find a way to get into trouble with any task).

The thing that is NOT true of these Microsoft ads, is that they "trash" Apple. They are defensive ads, Apple's ads are offensive. Do you think these couldn't have been made in Windows? Ad companies usually work with Macs, don't see the big deal.

We're all idiots for falling for this "pick a side" bs, both companies want this polarization. Both companies also love to pretend that there aren't and couldn't be any other options (and by in large they've been successful at ensuring that there aren't). Windows, we all have to admit is the only reasonable open platform. Windows is truly "without walls" relative to Apple's obsessive monopoly control.

Do you pay the price as a Windows user? I guess so... I mean, running games is so much more hassle than not... rather than the tight controls, MS lets you choose if you want to hassle with games or not. Let me say this, as productive adults it's easy to dismiss the "whole games thing" but any computer scientist will tell you that games have traditionally been the toughest software to create and the hardest on hardware. Apple just says, "scratch that, not worth it, no games". Like video cards? Have at it, it's your choice (intel, Amd, Nvidia, Matrox, etc.). Like a competitive CPU market, want CPU brand choices? Have at it, it's your choice (Via, AMD, Intel). Want a horrible but cheap LCD on your laptop, no? Go forth. You want a really nice laptop? How bout a MacBook Pro? yeah, go on and load Windows on a MBP... it's YOUR CHOICE. ... and on and on and on. By the way I think most MBP owners either use bootcamp or Fusion or Parallels.

So while the Microsoft ads aren't funny, they are more true. I've liked all three so far, the odd ones were even better. The shoe circus one was great, that so reminded of our local Apple stores (I think it was literally modeled after our West county mall here in St. Louis).

Macs are nice, I like them, those commercials though are offensive a lot of time. The one where they mock GNU programming and so on... OMG. The only reason I had a mac at the time was because it's UNIX. Macs are definitely geekier, I think geeky is better... but Apple doesn't I guess. Mixed message.

(Since no one here seems to remember this, I'll bring it up...)

This is very reminiscent of the time it was discovered that the cutting-edge, fly-through animation of a computer logic board produced for one of the first "Intel inside" commercials was produced on a PowerPC Macintosh.

Other related drivel...

As to using the Client's tools in your work for them:
I remember when a firm I worked for designed and then operated a fabulous new cafeteria for a company that produced Craftsman-brand tools for Sears. I accidentally referred to an adjustable wrench as a "Crescent" wrench, and was promptly and sternly corrected by the plant's General Manager. We made damn sure that the installers had shiny new Craftsman tools produced at that plant (the tool's origin is cryptically marked on the handles) to work with in front of the client. Not the same as producing a commercial, but you get the point.

MacBook Pros and glossy screens, non-TI Firewire, etc:
I ordered my MBP with a glossy screen after looking at both options in person. Never had a problem doing graphics on it. Could have had matte if it was a big deal to me, so I don't get the point of the rant about how glossy screen ruins it as a production tool. As for Firewire not coming from TI, I've never had a problem with the FW800 port not working or corrupting data, so I'm unaware of any issues (not saying there aren't any, just saying it has never affected my work). Personally, I use my ExpressCard slot with an eSATA adapter and drives rather than FireWire when data transfer speed is critical. Yeah, that costs extra, but when I work on a project that's worth tens of thousands of dollars, I'm not going to cut corners on a $100 accessory.

This IS a story precisely because MS acted so quickly to remove the data showing the ads were created on Macs. Moreover, MS isn't just any OTHER company as an ad agency's client... so, you're right to note that one uses the best tools for the job, or, that you use the tools you have but in THIS case, it makes the whole thing look very weird re: Microsoft's oversight. It is one of the few cases where the machines DID matter... harks back to the Windows desktop being designed on Macs... it reflects poorly on MS. And MS thinks so too obviously. Embarrassed? Their actions speak quite loudly, I think. If nothing else, it gives Mac users a good laugh and let's you have delicious thoughts about Balmer running around, apoplectic, beet red, gasping, waving arms...

More drivel:

You can read a lot about the FIREWIRE problems here, and at one point MBPro's had the cheap firewire chipset.
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music...-feb-08-a.html

Here is what I find the most annoying, You could never play a game on a macbook and iMac is limited on upgrading, just a eSata port would help in a HUGE way, and better GPU.

Anyway, Macbook, =NO GAMES but you could run motion no problems. The bench mark had the first macbook at 71%, in OPEN GL which was okay, but not great, REV 2, it went up to 104%, then 140% with 3rd REV and MOTION was flying, still no games, but MOTION was full steam ahead and barefeats.com reported on this. Then when LEOPARD came out, with NO UPDATE on the machine except the OS, the OPEN_GL went to 171%, so Apple crippled it. Now it runs at 70% and very, very slow.

So since you could never do gaming, and Apple knew PRO'S could use MOTION, why cripple it when the PRO user is <less than 1%? It makes NO SENSE at all. Todays user is mom/dad/barking dogs and all iMac students and yet Apple cripples the PRO user and forces them to high end or NOTHING and that's to bad, they simply won't put a good GPU on anything than an iMAC and MBP and PRO.....

And the interesting thing is I have a friend WHO SAW the newer FCP last AUG, but at the same time, its as if APPLE could care less about the PRO/CREATIVE user anymore unless creative = iWeb, heck, even the CREATIVE one to one's used to be for FCP and LOGIC, now most don't know it and if you're lucky, you might find one or two creatives that know it as they are all about iLife and the PRO is SO gone, its all about iweb, iphoto, consumer, consumer, consumer.

Personally, all MSFT has to do is create a good suite of products that make it easy for PHOTO'S, MOVIES (heard that VISTA is good at this), VOIP, FX, photoediting, and offer word with all new WINDOWS 7 as well as the above suite making word a combo or word and in design and a photo program closer to FIREWORKS, and I think MSFT does really really well. Especially if their next MOBILE platform is easy to use for touch screen phones.

I think they have learned a lot and must be up to something, could be wrong but Apple might have some price cuts. They got rid of the REFRESH pricing for Employee's (which is sad as hardly anyone on a specialist salary paying RENT could buy a MB, let alone a MBP), so this could be proof that the computers come in more powerful but with at least 10-15% price cut with STUDENT id's still giving the normal pricing (MBP=1799-200 for student) and Apple needs to ad GPU to all machines and come out with mid range product as EFIx is going to do really well as they break no rules at all.

apple's new ad: show the current ms ad full screen. at the end, pan out to show that it's being created on the mac.

---------------------------

the bottom line is that microsoft can make any demands they want regarding their ad(s), even that they be made on windows machines. it's called a legally binding contract. i worked for an ad agency that had coca-cola as a client. they looked in our kitchen and stipulated in our agreement that we have no pepsi products in our fridge. big account, big feather in our cap, big money. of course we signed it.

what a huge blunder on the part of ms.

Microsoft's new ad: Show a Mac, then pan out to show that it was created on a PC running Windows and AutoCAD.

The bottom line is that MS is not an unreasonable company who would demand that a creative agency change their ways just so childish Apple fanboys wouldn't get their panties in a bunch. I can guarantee the 1984 ad wasn't created on a Mac. Who the f^$ck cares? Don't you feel stupid caring about such pettiness?

I think you are being overly defensive here (one has to wonder why? You are not Bill are you?). Apple fans have a perfect right to laugh at this without being sworn at or accused of being petty. The 1984 ad was not made to compete with Sony or whatever the equipment that was used to make it so it didn't matter anyway. Here we have a direct defensive move (yes defensive, it's hardly an attack) by MS against Apple and yes it does seem a little silly to use Apple equipment to make the ads if that fact is likely to leak. So why not come right out and say it, 'Hello I am a PC and I used a Mac to make this ad you are watching about how PCs can do anything a Mac can do.' Come on, you have to see the humor here

Yes I'm Bill.

But no, I can't see the humor. The ads are not saying "PCs are better than Macs" (leave that pompous arrogance to Apple) or "PCs can do anything that Macs can do." All they're saying is "lots of people, cool people, different people, nerdy people, foreign people, etc." use PCs, and like it.

Who cares if MS hired an ad agency that uses Macs for production to convey that message? Why is this worse than using PCs to create Macs themselves because that (CAD/CAM) is something Macs can't even do? Is that ironic too? Why is nobody pointing that out? Because IT DOESN'T MATTER. Just like it doesn't matter if Apple's "I'm a Mac" 50 foot billboards on Hollywood Blvd. are made and/or assembled using PCs. OMG HOW IRONIC! Uh.. no. Honestly, just think about it for a second.

In my earlier post, I already said it doesn't matter. People use whatever best tool to do the job.

However, as a business, it matters. Someone in Microsoft should have thought about this, and make it an action list to "delete/modify the tags of the video/image". It is a simple business sense.

The issue is not that the ad agency used Mac. The issue is that Microsoft is not detail-oriented, and that shows in MS's product design. If you compare Vista and Leopard, there really aren't that much different when you do a feature-to-feature comparison. However, when you sit down and start using them, Vista is so irritating that I had to switch back to XP.

BTW, actually I think the ad is OK (not as bad as some people say). However, it is almost a copy of Apple's "Think Different" ads.

I disagree. Just because you're outsourcing your work and didn't assign someone to triple check that there is no metadata mentioning Mac anything doesn't mean your products aren't detail oriented. You're SUPER reaching. Yes, Apple is better at designing UI's and detail oriented there. MS is better at building development platforms and frameworks and detail oriented there. That's why one is hugely successful in business and as a platform for millions of applications, and the other is successful at meeting an end user's basic needs. Different strokes for different folks. Business sense? MS is not going to lose anyone's business over this.

The ads are a copy of the Think Different ads? Wow... now with all due respect, that's just crazy talk. What the heck does everybody around the world saying "I'm a PC" have to do with celebrating Picasso and Ghandi and Einstein and saying they're rebels and crazy ones? Sorry but in this case you're not just reaching, you're hallucinating!

Non Story?!

Okay, let me see if I have this straight. To combat Mac's "I'm a Mac" commercial, MS hires an ad agency to create an "I'm a PC" ad about all the "uses" "PC users" are getting from "using their PC", yet to accomplish this MS commercial, this ad agency utilizes non PC, non MS software (Mac, Adobe CS3)?!

Still priceless!

I'll tell you what the difference is between this ad being made on a Mac and your other analogies is. MS senior management have stated for the record that they are sick to death of the Apple ads and are going to fight back. Then they are discovered to have (unknowingly or knowingly) used Macs in the fight back against Macs. That's where the humor is. No previous ad by MS, had there been Macs involved, would have garnered this attention (and all your comments would be totally correct) but when you have gone out and stated that this is 'war' it changes the stakes.

You are trying to put a spin on this as if this were just any old MS ad. It isn't, it is an admitted direct response to Apple, not my words, Microsoft senior management's words. If you still try to spin this as anything else there is a job for you in the Republican ad campaign HQ where they are marketing that they are not really running for years 9 through 12 ...

Why oh why do you make things so easy for me?

Let's see... please provide a source and quote of these "Microsoft senior management words" where they state that they are "sick to death of the Apple ads" and "are going to fight back," and also that "it is an admitted direct response to Apple."

Since you're FLAT OUT LYING our of your teeth, you have a much better chance at fitting in with the Republican campaign!

Let me give it a shot since I want to be like you when I grow up:

Apple's senior management has directly stated and admitted that they are sick of having such a tiny insignificant marketshare in the computer industry as compared to Microsoft, because Macs are so much better and can do everything a PC can. Then they go and design all of their Macs using PCs with CAD/CAM software. Ha ha ha so hillarious!

Another Mac zealot liar. The ads are about "al the uses PC users are getting from using their PC?" WTF? Were you watching completely different ads altogether? You gotta stop smocking that stuff bro!

Again, Apple advertises Macs are so much better than PCs, yet they use PCs to design and create Macs? Isn't that a hundred times more ironic? You guys have to get your heads out of your @sses.

...dup

I was looking under the hood of a new Nissan hybrid and there, prominently stamped on the motor controller, was the name Toyota.

We use some PC's in our mostly Mac design studio. You definitely need to to have some fully configured Windows machines around for certain jobs. Since almost all of our clients are PC based, they send us a lot of Windows files, some of which can't be imported directly to Mac. I think it goes both ways. And yes, we use PCs for accounting as well.

You're funny for sure. There were so many articles I was completely overloaded with options: Here is just one as you seem to live on Mars and don't have Google for yourself. Note the very first line, mentioning 'Fight'. I assume Kevin McLaughlin is a 'Liar' too. I will not be replying to anything you write since you use such unpleasant phrases and bad language (see this gentleman's earlier posts).

Ballmer Says Microsoft Ready To Fight Apple


By Kevin McLaughlin, ChannelWeb
5:50 PM EDT Thu. Jul. 24, 2008 Microsoft (NSDQ:MSFT) CEO Steve Ballmer on Wednesday acknowledged the threat Microsoft faces from Apple and offered some hints as to how Microsoft plans to fight back against its steadily strengthening nemesis. However, some channel partners were confused by the message.
In an email sent to Microsoft employees Wednesday, which first appeared in AllThingsD.com, Ballmer says Apple (NSDQ:AAPL)'s success stems from its ability to deliver a complete user experience within the relatively narrow scope of its offerings, and suggests Microsoft could learn from this example.

"In the competition between PCs and Macs, we outsell Apple 30-to-1. But there is no doubt that Apple is thriving. Why? Because they are good at providing an experience that is narrow but complete, while our commitment to choice often comes with some compromises to the end-to-end experience," Ballmer wrote.

In the memo, and also in his Thursday keynote speech at Microsoft's annual financial analyst meeting, Ballmer suggested that Microsoft will change the way it works with its hardware partners. These comments are already generating buzz -- and some confusion -- within Microsoft's channel partner community.

Microsoft's battle plan is to provide users with "complete experiences with absolutely no compromises," according to Ballmer. "We'll do the same with phones -- providing choice as we work to create great end-to-end experiences," Ballmer wrote in the email.

"We're kind of being attacked from a single competitor with a point of view that is more closed and offers much less choice, that is much more narrow," Ballmer said in the keynote. "And yet, we have to tell our story, and you'll hear more about that versus where Apple is coming from, and [we'll] make sure that the Windows PC doesn't just offer more choice, but it offers every choice that you can get on a Mac, or other machine."

Dave Sobel, CEO of Evolve Technologies, a Fairfax, Va.-based Microsoft Gold partner, was somewhat perplexed by Ballmer's comments.

"My interpretation is that he's talking about hardware choice. Microsoft has always provided hardware choice, while Apple locks in the entire platform," said Sobel. "But is he implying that Microsoft is going to talk about a standardized platform? [The comment] implies many things that sound different from what Microsoft has said in the past."

Todd Swank, vice president of marketing at Nor-Tech, a Burnsville, Minn.-based system builder, sees Ballmer's statements as a sign of Microsoft's desire to figure out how to provide the Apple experience, and to get its partners to provide that same experience to customers.

"This is something they recognize that Apple is doing well; i.e. the cleaner, more user friendly end-to-end experience," Swank said.

The Apple statements represent a refreshing change of course for Microsoft, and are a promising sign, says Vlad Mazek, a Microsoft Exchange MVP and CEO of Own Web Now, an Orlando, Fla.-based solution provider.

"It's nice to see that they actually recognize this now. For years Microsoft's stance was: 'Apple is not really our competition. IBM is'," Mazek wrote in a Thursday blog post.

Please leave politics out of this.

Jeff, my bad, I introduced the concept I guess earlier but in an apolitical way referring to spin. This gentleman's take was in line with all is 8 or 9 posts so far, venomous and foul mouthed throughout.

I'm sure other posters have mentioned this point but it bears repeating. A screen capture or output from the original design files was opened/edited/saved on a Mac then distributed to the world for review. That doesn't mean that the actual graphics were created on a Mac (although the ad agency is a Mac shop, this is beside the point).

The fact is that the original ads were probably created with Adobe InDesign or QuarkXpress (both available on PCs and Macs), the commercials could have been made with Final Cut or Avid, and the point is, the original file formats are completely unreadable to the story publishers. So saying a TIF, PDF or JPG image distributed to the media proves the platform used to create them is total nonsense. As another discussion board post eloquently put it, saying the ads were made on Macs based on this evidence is like saying that Ford cars use GM parts because they are delivered via Chevy trucks. No causal relationship there.

From a committed but realistic Mac user...

I don't think it is the same thing to say "don't drink an optional beverage in the kitchen" vs. "don't use the multi-million dollar workflow production system the entire enterprise is built on." That's a stupid analogy. It's like saying to American Airlines, don't use Boeing airplanes, use Sikorski helicopters in all your flights or don't use our products. Obviously that wouldn't fly, and no large agency would do it. Sure they fight for the business, but the clients go to agencies for the quality of their products not to restrict the creatives.

In my opinion (which matters to me, since I'm the only person who buys me thousands of dollars of software and hardware every year) -- it works out like this:

The idea that market-share Goliath Microsoft relies on Apple's tools (directly or indirectly though contractors) to attempt to stimulate sales of Microsoft software is like Coca-Cola relying on a Pepsi-swilling spokesperson to tell people that lots of people think Coke tastes better. They are validating at least a portion of their competitor's claims.

I think this is funniest to those of us who have heard for years (and still to this day) from PC fanatics that Macs are "toy" computers, and that "no one uses a Mac."

No, this "fanboy" war started with DOS path-typing users loudly proclaiming that anyone who would use an input device other than a keyboard wasn't a true computer user at all, and they've boosted their claims of superiority with every version of Windows to come out, despite experts largely agreeing that Windows frequently runs like crap for the average computer owner.

If Apple uses CAD/CAM or modeling software for industrial design and production, it's likely because the software developer doesn't make if for Mac, not because Apple or it's sub-contractors think it runs better on Windows. Can't very well blame someone for not using what isn't made, unlike an ad created in Adobe CS deliberately being run on OS X rather than Vista.

And I personally find it humorous.

Like I said in a earlier post, the guy is Microsoft's version of Matt Foley. All that video needed was Ballmer saying "if you don't fix Vista soon, you'll be living in a VAN down by the RIVER!"

Details details...you (and Microsoft, and Obama) don't think details matter, but they do. It is about professionlism, and MS shows the lack of it. Personally I don't care a bit (and you don't), but the fact is some people care and make a big deal of it, and that's why they SHOULD have checked the meta data, or require all ad video to be run through Windows Media Encoder.

And the ad style is exactly the same as "Think Different". The message is different, but I was talking about style - a series of people doing different things sliced together.

And when you are using personal attack, you know you are losing. There are two dozens auto manufacturers, 80% of the auto ads are the same style, with different messages, but come on, when a commercial for an auto comes up on TV, everyone knows it is an auto commercial, before any brand or message is shown. It is about the style.

I bet you don't think MS's recycle bin copied Mac's trash can.

Years ago I was involved in advertising. Mostly I like to write and have a visual imagination... Thanks for the comments.

I agree with you but please enough of the politics.

Maybe you missed it, but henry agreed to back off on the political comments, I would appreciate it if you followed that lead.

I missed it too, where does henry agree to this? Thanks.

Whoops, sorry, I guess I was confused. I mistook one of your statements for henry's.

np