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Microsoft's 'I'm a PC' campaign created with Macs - Page 5

post #161 of 194
I didn't have time to read every post so I don't know if this has been posted, but I think this you tube spoof will kill the Microsoft "I'm a PC ads".

http://www.9to5mac.com/mac-is-a-pc

Some one remembered this Apple ad from 2006.
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post #162 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by grtgrfx View Post

I don't think it is the same thing to say "don't drink an optional beverage in the kitchen" vs. "don't use the multi-million dollar workflow production system the entire enterprise is built on." That's a stupid analogy. It's like saying to American Airlines, don't use Boeing airplanes, use Sikorski helicopters in all your flights or don't use our products. Obviously that wouldn't fly, and no large agency would do it. Sure they fight for the business, but the clients go to agencies for the quality of their products not to restrict the creatives.

But are there NO creative agencies that use Windows? NONE???

Of course it would be difficult to get an agency to change their entire production system... but with a $300 million ad budget you could CREATE a new agency. You would think that there would be agencies using Windows just BECAUSE of the size of Microsoft and symbiotic relationships that could be formed.

If you're arguing that there is not a single, reasonably talented creative agency in the entire United States. that uses Windows for their creative work, that could be used for a project like this, then that is really, really bad.

"I am a PC and I have been made into a stereotype of a machine that no creative professional in the world will touch".
post #163 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickag View Post

I didn't have time to read every post so I don't know if this has been posted, but I think this you tube spoof will kill the Microsoft "I'm a PC ads".

http://www.9to5mac.com/mac-is-a-pc

Some one remembered this Apple ad from 2006.

Very good lol, thanks for sharing.
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post #164 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTel View Post

But the accountants were using PCs.

Isn't that every major corporation? Macs in the creative departments and PC in accounting and finance.

Well, accounting firms are partnerships rather than corporations, but at one time, Arthur Young, a major accounting firm, now part of Ernst and Young, used Apple ][s and Macintoshes extensively (in the early 80s, they were their *only* desktop computer). They also happened to be Apple, Inc.'s independent auditors. (though if you're using some of your clients products, how independent can you be? \)

In the mid-90s, Ernst and Young got rid of their Macs. Their MIS (call them by their proper name ) department issued a press release announcing that they had converted everything to Microsoft Windows. Apple, Inc. promptly dumped them for KPMG, whom they also use for other consulting services.

Personally, because of this press release, and to act as a Mac Addict, I vote against Ernst and Young in every *other* corporation in which I own stock.
post #165 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

You're funny for sure. There were so many articles I was completely overloaded with options: Here is just one as you seem to live on Mars and don't have Google for yourself. Note the very first line, mentioning 'Fight'. I assume Kevin McLaughlin is a 'Liar' too. I will not be replying to anything you write since you use such unpleasant phrases and bad language (see this gentleman's earlier posts).

I asked:

"Please provide a source and quote of these 'Microsoft senior management words' where they state that they are 'sick to death of the Apple ads' and 'are going to fight back,' and also that 'it is an admitted direct response to Apple.'"

And that's all you can come up with? That doesn't quote a single thing of what you said earlier! You are a bold-faced liar and have lost all your credibility, sorry.

Like I said, let me give it a shot since I want to be like you when I grow up:

Apple's senior management has directly stated and admitted that they are "sick of having such a tiny insignificant marketshare in the computer industry as compared to Microsoft, because Macs are so much better and can do everything a PC can." Then they go and design all of their Macs using PCs with CAD/CAM software. Ha ha ha so hillarious!

And here are's a random quote to back it up:

"We would like to see our market share grow,' Steve Jobs, Apple's chief executive, admitted to The Independent on Sunday last week at the Apple Expo held in Paris."
post #166 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by joseph_went_south View Post

But are there NO creative agencies that use Windows? NONE???

Of course it would be difficult to get an agency to change their entire production system... but with a $300 million ad budget you could CREATE a new agency. You would think that there would be agencies using Windows just BECAUSE of the size of Microsoft and symbiotic relationships that could be formed.

If you're arguing that there is not a single, reasonably talented creative agency in the entire United States. that uses Windows for their creative work, that could be used for a project like this, then that is really, really bad.

"I am a PC and I have been made into a stereotype of a machine that no creative professional in the world will touch".

*Sigh* are you really that dense? MS hired Crispin Porter & Bogusky for their creativity and innovative approach to marketing, not because of the platform they use. They're not fanboys like you zealots. They'd be idiots if they forced them to use x or y tool just to look good for Mac fanboys who will look to any petty excuse to attack them. Only an idiot would hire somebody who's an expert on their field and then try to tell them how to do their job or what tools to use when it's just a means to an end. Yes, there are talented creative agencies that use PC's, but THAT WASN'T THE CRITERIA they used to select one. Only a stupid zealot fanboy would use that as their basis for searching the right people for a job where the only thing that matters is the end result.

Eric Hollreiser, director of corporate communications at Microsoft, says that the company never asked for brand monogamy:

"We focused only on being inclusive of people who used and had passion for PC. That was and is our only criterion. They represent all walks of life: be it race, nationality, gender, profession, interests, etc."

Why can't Mac users and Apple itself be more than this? It's be a better world that's for sure.
post #167 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnqh View Post

And the ad style is exactly the same as "Think Different". The message is different, but I was talking about style - a series of people doing different things sliced together.



Funniest thing I've heard in a while! Typical Mac zealot! Apple invented the concept of "a series of people doing different things sliced together" in a TV ad! Genious! 90% of the ads out there are copying this innovative Apple concept! Everyone copies Apple!

post #168 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTel View Post

But the accountants were using PCs.

Isn't that every major corporation? Macs in the creative departments and PC in accounting and finance.

The Radiology Dept in my father's hospital is wall to wall Macs which treat the huge scanners as just another peripheral. To go with them all the accounts and databases run on iMacs as well.
post #169 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lictor View Post

And likewise, I expect Apple ads using 3D animation to be made on Windows...

We have a few people at work who run MacOS on a PC too...

If you have a look at Apple's manuals, they have been produced in FrameMaker, which is nolonger supported on the Mac.

So they are made on old Macs running OS9, or on PCs running Windows, or Macs using BootCamp.
post #170 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by henrymonroe View Post

*Sigh* are you really that dense? MS hired Crispin Porter & Bogusky for their creativity and innovative approach to marketing,

And again, no one with sufficient "creativity and innovative approach to marketing" is on the Windows platform?

Quote:
not because of the platform they use.

MISTAKE!

Quote:
They're not fanboys like you zealots. They'd be idiots if they forced them to use x or y tool just to look good for Mac fanboys who will look to any petty excuse to attack them. Only an idiot would hire somebody who's an expert on their field and then try to tell them how to do their job or what tools to use when it's just a means to an end. Yes, there are talented creative agencies that use PC's, but THAT WASN'T THE CRITERIA they used to select one. Only a stupid zealot fanboy would use that as their basis for searching the right people for a job where the only thing that matters is the end result.

Eric Hollreiser, director of corporate communications at Microsoft, says that the company never asked for brand monogamy:

"We focused only on being inclusive of people who used and had passion for PC. That was and is our only criterion. They represent all walks of life: be it race, nationality, gender, profession, interests, etc."

That sounds so ridiculous. "We focused only on being inclusive of people who used and had passion for PC" ... except for those in the creative industry, in particular the firm we hired to make a commercial about people who have passion for PC.

LOL...

Are there no creative firms in the United States as good as these guys, who do their work on Windows machines?

Quote:
Why can't Mac users and Apple itself be more than this? It's be a better world that's for sure.
post #171 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by joseph_went_south View Post

That sounds so ridiculous. "We focused only on being inclusive of people who used and had passion for PC" ... except for those in the creative industry, in particular the firm we hired to make a commercial about people who have passion for PC.

Even worse aren't most of the people they highlight as passionate PC users actually Mac fans and users? Which is more to the point about lying and deception in the ads.
post #172 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by joseph_went_south View Post

And again, no one with sufficient "creativity and innovative approach to marketing" is on the Windows platform?

MISTAKE!

That sounds so ridiculous. "We focused only on being inclusive of people who used and had passion for PC" ... except for those in the creative industry, in particular the firm we hired to make a commercial about people who have passion for PC.

LOL...

Are there no creative firms in the United States as good as these guys, who do their work on Windows machines?

You just don't get it. Their criteria wasn't what platform they use. That's reserved for zealots like you. Their criteria was that they were a successful ad agency which they liked. If they had discriminated based on platform they'd be as stupid and blind as you zealots. They're saying they're focused on people who have a passion for PCs, not people who hate and don't use Macs. That's the difference between MS and Apple and MS and you zealots. MS is about celebrating PC users, regardless of Apple. Apple and you are about hating everything PC and discriminating. That's why these ads are so brilliant. They're not attacks. Apple's strategy is being anti-PC. MS's strategy is being pro-PC, not being anti-Mac. That's why these ads are being successful and applauded in the blogosphere. But you will probably never get it since you're just a dense zealot.
post #173 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by gastroboy View Post

Even worse aren't most of the people they highlight as passionate PC users actually Mac fans and users? Which is more to the point about lying and deception in the ads.

First of all, they're ADS. If you think people in Coke ads all drink Coke, or people in BMW ads all drive BMWs, you're a moron. Justin Long isn't even a Mac fan. These people are getting paid. Second, there's no reason why a Mac fan can't enjoy using a PC, and vice-versa. Why do Mac zealots have to be so divisive and polarizing, it's almost as bad as republicans vs democrats. Again, that's why these ads are so brilliant. They're not harping on anyone for using a Mac, they're celebrating PC users. A positive message, completely contrasting what Apple does, hence making them look arrogant and stupid. It's brilliant.
post #174 of 194
Anyone who accuses someone else of being a zealot that many times in one post is probably a zealot.

Yes, it was stupid of Microsoft not to require the use of Windows in the creation of the ad. I can promise you that Crispin Porter & Bogusky could have produced the work on Windows without blinking. The cost of a new workstation and Windows versions of the apps would've been negligible and probably passed directly on to Microsoft anyway. With the exception of Apple's own offerings, all the professional tools are available on Windows. Now, the next Mac & PC ad practically writes itself.

"Hey PC, guess what. I'm hard at work making "I'm a PC" ads just for you.

"Thanks Mac, but why aren't I making that ad? I have almost all the same creative software."

"I don't know PC. All I know is that the ad agency that was hired preferred using me. It must be about something more than just the software."

Not the best dialog, I know, but I typed that out literally stream-of-concsiousness and the concept is there.
post #175 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guartho View Post

Anyone who accuses someone else of being a zealot that many times in one post is probably a zealot.

Yes, it was stupid of Microsoft not to require the use of Windows in the creation of the ad. I can promise you that Crispin Porter & Bogusky could have produced the work on Windows without blinking. The cost of a new workstation and Windows versions of the apps would've been negligible and probably passed directly on to Microsoft anyway. With the exception of Apple's own offerings, all the professional tools are available on Windows. Now, the next Mac & PC ad practically writes itself.

"Hey PC, guess what. I'm hard at work making "I'm a PC" ads just for you.

"Thanks Mac, but why aren't I making that ad? I have almost all the same creative software."

"I don't know PC. All I know is that the ad agency that was hired preferred using me. It must be about something more than just the software."

Not the best dialog, I know, but I typed that out literally stream-of-concsiousness and the concept is there.

*Sigh* It's almost as if you didn't read my post at all. Thanks for being one more zealot who proves my point. Only Apple zealots care about these things. The public in general, and Microsoft, don't. You hire somebody to do a job with the best tools possible, period. Apple stores use PCs to check you out and Windows Mobile to activate iPhones. Apple's manufacturing process is controlled by PCs. Macs themselves are designed on PC's running Autocad. Who cares? Nobody. Best tools for the job. But if MS hires somebody to do a job, even if it's a stupid video, they have to FORCE them to use PCs? Only a blind Mac zealot would even think of making such a request and/or enforce it. It's pretty sad how you can't look outside your little bubble at how the world works, even when the very arguments you use backfire, as is the case with Macs themselves being created on PCs.
post #176 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by henrymonroe View Post

*Sigh* It's almost as if you didn't read my post at all. Thanks for being one more zealot who proves my point. Only Apple zealots care about these things. The public in general, and Microsoft, don't. You hire somebody to do a job with the best tools possible, period. Apple stores use PCs to check you out and Windows Mobile to activate iPhones. Apple's manufacturing process is controlled by PCs. Macs themselves are designed on PC's running Autocad. Who cares? Nobody. Best tools for the job. But if MS hires somebody to do a job, even if it's a stupid video, they have to FORCE them to use PCs? Only a blind Mac zealot would even think of making such a request and/or enforce it. It's pretty sad how you can't look outside your little bubble at how the world works, even when the very arguments you use backfire, as is the case with Macs themselves being created on PCs.

Wow, thanks henrymonroe you are a treasure trove of information regarding the inner workings at Apple (you must work there to know so much I assume), I never knew Macs were designed on PCs! I must admit I am behind in that area. Last time I read anything about this was years ago and back then Apple was using Cray Super Computers, now PCs you say, wow again, ... who knew! Or are you are referring to the external look? In which case I guess it's Jonathan Ive's team you must be referring to as using PCs and Autocad, that is really amazing news, again total shock to me! I did read about the use of mobile Windows in Apple stores but I also seem to recall this was problematic, I need to check on the latest news there. Keep up the good work informing us bubble living zealot, as an Apple user since 1978 and a PC user since the first gray import to the UK (1981 I think) my preference for Apple is totally personal choice so I hope that's OK with you and that's why I read this blog, you know the AppleInsider one for pro Apple people where we understand each others passions.
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post #177 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by henrymonroe View Post

You hire somebody to do a job with the best tools possible, period.

*Sigh* It's almost as if you didn't read my post at all. Thanks for being one more zealot who proves my point.

I own a video production company. A request like the hypothetical I presented is not uncommon at all. In college I interned at a much bigger video production company. Some of the requests of the of the clients would blow your mind. You're the one living in a bubble.
post #178 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guartho View Post

*Sigh* It's almost as if you didn't read my post at all. Thanks for being one more zealot who proves my point.

I own a video production company. A request like the hypothetical I presented is not uncommon at all. In college I interned at a much bigger video production company. Some of the requests of the of the clients would blow your mind. You're the one living in a bubble.

So true, I bet there are many good stories out there about that very point.

Henry's points do have some merit in a some circumstances e.g. would Johnson & Johnson care if Macs or PCs were used? No of course not.

Now imagine Kodak advertising their film and it leaked that Fuji Film was used for all the demo shots LOL ... HELLO! Someone just got fired!

The thrust of most of the posts here were only that MS were a tad silly a) using Macs and b) getting caught ... given they are trying to go head to head with Apple in advertising. To a Mac fan it is funny, end of conversation. Sigh .. Enough of the insults Henry old boy.
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post #179 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWyatt View Post

If Microsoft is your client, you produce the creative on PCs. End of story. This is retarded thinking on the Microsoft side and lazy slacker thinking on the ad agency side. It IS a big deal. The car analogies are crap. It's more like hiring an agency to make commercials for Pepsi ("look, we're better than Coke"), and the agency worldwide has nothing but coke machines in it's break rooms.

It's irony, hypocrisy, hilarity, and epic fail all rolled in to one.

I wonder if the surgeons who operated on Steve Jobs' cancer are PC users. And what kind of computers were used in the operating room where Steve was lying with his body cut open. Perhaps Microsoft should have included Steve's doctors in their TV commercial.

Mac users would probably say "no big deal". But if word ever got out that Bill Gates got a checkup from a Mac-using dentist, then the entire Mac community would be jumping all over it. Irony and hypocrisy indeed.
post #180 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

I wonder if the surgeons who operated on Steve Jobs' cancer are PC users. And what kind of computers were used in the operating room where Steve was lying with his body cut open. Perhaps Microsoft should have included Steve's doctors in their TV commercial.

Mac users would probably say "no big deal". But if word ever got out that Bill Gates got a checkup from a Mac-using dentist, then the entire Mac community would be jumping all over it. Irony and hypocrisy indeed.

Not true, there is no competition between them in that area.

The example I used earlier is less contentious as it is not Apple or MS and shows nicely the same thing:

1. Kodak Film Ad showing beautiful scenes made by ad agency using Fuji Film to take said photographs. Open to ridicule by Fuji and Press.

2. Kodak CEO having life saving surgery and operation done by surgeon who used Fuji Film to image the operation or even at his daughter's birthday party: Not worth mentioning.
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post #181 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guartho View Post

*Sigh* It's almost as if you didn't read my post at all. Thanks for being one more zealot who proves my point.

I own a video production company. A request like the hypothetical I presented is not uncommon at all. In college I interned at a much bigger video production company. Some of the requests of the of the clients would blow your mind. You're the one living in a bubble.

*Sigh* It's almost as if you didn't read my post at all. Thanks for being one more zealot who proves my point.

I didn't say such requests weren't common. I said Microsoft does not go to the extents of zealotry that you Mac users do. When they hire the best marketing company, they don't dictate how they should or shouldn't do things. That's reserved for intolerant bigots like you. The ads get their point across perfectly. Promoting the PC as the best platform for creative marketing was NOT that point. You just don't get it.
post #182 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Not true, there is no competition between them in that area.

The example I used earlier is less contentious as it is not Apple or MS and shows nicely the same thing:

1. Kodak Film Ad showing beautiful scenes made by ad agency using Fuji Film to take said photographs. Open to ridicule by Fuji and Press.

2. Kodak CEO having life saving surgery and operation done by surgeon who used Fuji Film to image the operation or even at his daughter's birthday party: Not worth mentioning.

There's no competition between them in the creative advertising area either, so you just proved yourself wrong. Who cares what the company they hire to do their advertising uses. That's not the point of the ad campaign "look PCs are better to make ads!" Uh... no. Why is that so hard to grasp?
post #183 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by henrymonroe View Post

*Sigh* It's almost as if you didn't read my post at all. Thanks for being one more zealot who proves my point.

I didn't say such requests weren't common. I said Microsoft does not go to the extents of zealotry that you Mac users do. When they hire the best marketing company, they don't dictate how they should or shouldn't do things. That's reserved for intolerant bigots like you. The ads get their point across perfectly. Promoting the PC as the best platform for creative marketing was NOT that point. You just don't get it.

You keep speaking authoritatively for what MS does and doesn't do so i assume you work there in a position of authority and know all this for a fact. If this is true just say so and we can all move on. Thanks.
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post #184 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by henrymonroe View Post

I said Microsoft does not go to the extents of zealotry that you Mac users do. When they hire the best marketing company, they don't dictate how they should or shouldn't do things.

Was experimenting with special diets really the reason why Steve Jobs waited so long before getting cancer surgery? Maybe he was going from one hospital to another and demanding that they convert to all Macs before he would allow the surgery? But his deterioration prevented him from waiting any longer?

So while the hypothetical new Apple commercial shows Mac designing new ads for Microsoft, maybe it should also show Steve Jobs lying on an operating table while PC examines him and runs lab tests. Who really feels more insulted? Bill Gates having his commercial done on Macs, or Steve Jobs owing his life to PCs? Does Jobs take long showers every night and cry over how violated he feels?
post #185 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

Was experimenting with special diets really the reason why Steve Jobs waited so long before getting cancer surgery? Maybe he was going from one hospital to another and demanding that they convert to all Macs before he would allow the surgery? But his deterioration prevented him from waiting any longer?

So while the hypothetical new Apple commercial shows Mac designing new ads for Microsoft, maybe it should also show Steve Jobs lying on an operating table while PC examines him and runs lab tests. Who really feels more insulted? Bill Gates having his commercial done on Macs, or Steve Jobs owing his life to PCs? Does Jobs take long showers every night and cry over how violated he feels?

Perhaps time to close this thread.
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post #186 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by henrymonroe View Post

*Sigh* It's almost as if you didn't read my post at all. Thanks for being one more zealot who proves my point.

I didn't say such requests weren't common. I said Microsoft does not go to the extents of zealotry that you Mac users do.

By the way, I quoted your bit about the *sighing* as a reference to your over-use of the word zealot and how one can identify a true zealot by the number of times they call someone else a zealot. So stop being a zealot, or at least try to be one that posts about something they have a clue about.
post #187 of 194
Wow, I just jumped into this thread on the last page, and I must say, this is scary.
post #188 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phlake View Post

Wow, I just jumped into this thread on the last page, and I must say, this is scary.

Yep, sure is. When Mac fans can't have a laugh at the fact MS had Macs making their PC ads in a Mac fan blog without being sworn at and insulted then it is scary indeed.

Unfortunately there are some who have to be insulting, sarcastic and rude to try to make their point, be it valid or not.
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post #189 of 194
Have any of you noticed the mobile handheld devices used by the mac geniuses to activate your shiny new iPhones? Take a look the next time you get a chance - its using MS windows. I know I thought that was funny too
post #190 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonahu View Post

Have any of you noticed the mobile handheld devices used by the mac geniuses to activate your shiny new iPhones? Take a look the next time you get a chance - its using MS windows. I know I thought that was funny too

Welcome to AI. I can see the irony at first glance, but you have to remember that Apple doesn't make a point-of-sale device so they would have to go with a 3rd-party option. They choose Motorola's Symbol devices, which happen to run Windows mobile as the core OS. With only 300 stores world wide it doesn't make much sense for Apple to make their HW and SW to run a PoS system that can scan barcodes and swipe CCs at this point.
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...ws_mobile.html On another note, I'd bet MS has plenty more Macs in house for their development of Office for Mac and the dozen other apps they create for OS X.
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post #191 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonahu View Post

Have any of you noticed the mobile handheld devices used by the mac geniuses to activate your shiny new iPhones? Take a look the next time you get a chance - its using MS windows. I know I thought that was funny too

The activation is done via iTunes at home, I didn't know the activation was done on a PC device in an Apple Store, or are you referring to the mobile cash machine?
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post #192 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

The activation is done via iTunes at home, I didn't know the activation was done on a PC device in an Apple Store, or are you referring to the mobile cash machine?

The handheld Symbol devices, now owned by Motorola, use WinMo as the embedded OS for the Point-of-Sale software for scanning barcodes and swiping credit cards. A business sector that Apple has never entered and may never enter if they maintain only a few hundred stores that use these products. Unless you look at the bottom of the device to see the Windows logo or watch it reboot the use would probably never even know that the device is running WinMo underneath.
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post #193 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

While I got a quick chuckle out of it, it's relaly not a big a deal or surprising when you think about it for more than a second. It's in the same boat of the WinMo-based Moto Symbol PoS handhelds Apple Store uses.

MS didn't make this commercial in house (though it would explain a lot if they did \) and I don't think they cared about what OS completed the task of editing the commercial so long as the company they choose did a bang up job. Perhaps we should look at MS and Apple as not being so petty as to "cut off one's nose to spite their face" because they aren't caring about what OS the companies they hire use, so long as they do the work.

PS: Isn't MS the largest 3rd-party OS X developer with Office for Mac? Wouldn't they have plenty of Macs in house to test their software with? Can anyone of use say that we have been coding for Apple as long or have had as many Macs as MS has?

This is probably the only reasonable post I've seen in this tread so far. Anybody else over 13 around here, really..?

Microsoft ad is done by Crispin & Bogusky, advertising agency behind successful Burger King and other campaigns. So they are using Macs... who cares? Microsoft was looking for specific look and feel, not for suck-up drones using only Microsoft products. Personally I'd laugh out loud at MS if I heard they made condition that their ads must be done on Windows platform - now that would be paranoid and then some! As it is, good on them - ad is great. I personally prefer them to Justin Long stuff Apple is serving. They made ad that is heart touching and inspiring, without even mentioning Apple, or Linux, or anyone else. I always respect when someone makes a strong statement without spiting on others, be it in business, politics or anywhere else.

But if some of you so desperately need every possible "reason" to justify their computing purchase, go ahead - indulge yourself...
post #194 of 194
Microsoft is a joke.
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