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McCain campaign ON HOLD! - Page 4

post #121 of 169
9/26/08 at 11:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sslarson View Post

Back at ya.

The misunderstandings and misconceptions about the Great Depression, the New Deal and related circumstances surrounding these events and responses to them (including the present one) are so deep and pervasive I wouldn't even know where to begin.

Ditto. But I am trying to understand it from many points of view.

Just to answer your question,
Quote:
Did he derail the bailout?

No, he sabotaged it.

Quote:
John McCain was accused last night of sabotaging the Wall Street bail-out with theatrics that reduced America's credit crisis to a showcase for his presidential leadership capabilities.

The furious words for the Republican candidate came after a contentious meeting at the White House between George Bush and congressional leaders scuppered an early deal on a $700bn rescue package. Both McCain and Barack Obama attended the meeting.

The extraordinary session had been called after McCain's stunning announcement on Wednesday that he would suspend his campaign and would seek a delay in tonight's presidential debate to try to personally help steer through a deal on the bail-out. By midday yesterday, congressional leaders said they had reached the outlines of a deal.

But that optimism appeared to have dissipated after the White House meeting.

Democrats and Republicans said that prospects for a deal vanished after McCain had tried to prod his fellow Republicans in another direction. The breakdown cast new uncertainty over Friday night's presidential debate in Mississippi, as well as the future of the bail-out itself.

Way to rush in and save the day...

Well, here we are. The debates are on. But we already know who won don't we.

By the way Ron Paul is hopping mad.
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post #122 of 169
9/26/08 at 11:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sslarson View Post

Blew what? Pick up what pieces? Did he derail the bailout?

McCain did nothing.

Absolutely nothing.

Expect a McCain administration to do exactly the same.

Absolutely nothing.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #123 of 169
9/26/08 at 11:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post

Just to answer your question,

No, he sabotaged it.

Sabotaged. Derailed. Whatever. If he actually prevented it from happening (he probably didn't) that might actually win my vote (probably not though since it was likely accidental and not from some some principled and reasoned stand against the bailout).
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post #124 of 169
9/26/08 at 11:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post

By the way Ron Paul is hopping mad.

Ron Paul is a modern prophet. But you know...he's a complete loon.

I recently read somewhere that Ron Paul was on deck for one of the biggest "I told you so's" in political history. But you know...he's a complete loon.

Ron Paul's been talking about this for some time. But you know...he's a complete loon.
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post #125 of 169
9/26/08 at 11:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sslarson View Post

Back at ya.

The misunderstandings and misconceptions about the Great Depression, the New Deal and related circumstances surrounding these events and responses to them (including the present one) are so deep and pervasive I wouldn't even know where to begin.

Blaming this whole thing on deregulation is just as naive, short-sighted and foolish as saying the health care system is fucked up because it is a "free market".

... is one method of obtaining propositional knowledge, but a fallacy in regard to logic, because the validity of a claim does not follow from the credibility of the source.

If you say it is so, it is not so.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #126 of 169
9/26/08 at 12:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

The US made money on the loan to Chrysler as well as Mexico.

Man, remember when Republicans went apeshit insane over Clinton's Mexico bailout? Yeah, those were good times.

Quote:
As members of Congress stepped up their criticism of President Clinton's $20 billion loan program to prop up the Mexican peso, the House of Representatives voted overwhelmingly this evening to approve a resolution asking that the Administration turn over all its files on Mexico's economy, debts and financial dealings with the United States.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #127 of 169
9/26/08 at 12:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

Man, remember when Republicans went apeshit insane over Clinton's Mexico bailout? Yeah, those were good times.

No fair. History is no longer operative.

Your modern Republican is a creature of the perfect, eternal Now. What was said or done yesterday has no bearing on what is said and done today. Cause and effect are just provisional lines connecting the points you want to make, not hard and fast artifacts of reality.

Everything is possible because nothing is real. They have finally broken free of the constricting bonds of elitist ideas of coherence, sense, and consistency. That shit was only ever for eggheads and liberal college professors, anyway. Main Street has its own, hard won wisdom: Truth is whatever pisses off the people I hate.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #128 of 169
9/26/08 at 12:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

No fair. History is no longer operative.

Your modern Republican is a creature of the perfect, eternal Now. What was said or done yesterday has no bearing on what is said and done today. Cause and effect are just provisional lines connecting the points you want to make, not hard and fast artifacts of reality.

Everything is possible because nothing is real. They have finally broken free of the constricting bonds of elitist ideas of coherence, sense, and consistency. That shit was only ever for eggheads and liberal college professors, anyway. Main Street has its own, hard won wisdom: Truth is whatever pisses off the people I hate.

I get it. You mean how Republicans used to believe that attacking a man's veteran war service was "just part in parcel of American politics" and how John McCain's veteran war service was "simply out of bounds in American politics and in bad taste."

I get it now.

You mean how Republicans used to believe that changing one's mind after seeing different evident made you a "flip flopper" and how that was completely unacceptable for a president and how John McCain's continuously changing positions today shows that he's "Mavericky"...or something.

I totally get it now.

You mean how getting an expensive hair cut demonstrates how totally out of whack you can be with regular Americans and how John McCain has been paying THOUSANDS of dollars for a special effects make-up artist is just...well...no big deal.

I now fullly understand.

I'm sure that when Obama is elected president the very first thing you'll see congressional Republicans do is demand an immediate rescinding of all expanded presidential powers.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #129 of 169
9/26/08 at 12:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

I get it. You mean how Republicans used to believe that attacking a man's veteran war service was "just part in parcel of American politics" and how John McCain's veteran war service was "simply out of bounds in American politics and in bad taste."

I get it now.

You mean how Republicans used to believe that changing one's mind after seeing different evident made you a "flip flopper" and how that was completely unacceptable for a president and how John McCain's continuously changing positions today shows that he's "Mavericky"...or something.

I totally get it now.

You mean how getting an expensive hair cut demonstrates how totally out of whack you can be with regular Americans and how John McCain has been paying THOUSANDS of dollars for a special effects make-up artist is just...well...no big deal.

I now fullly understand.

I'm sure that when Obama is elected president the very first thing you'll see congressional Republicans do is demand an immediate rescinding of all expanded presidential powers.

You got it. They'll also rediscover religion on the deficit and small government, decry any and all appointments of even mildly liberal Democrats to governmental posts as "rank politicalization of the federal bureaucracy", decide that "up and down votes" are pointless, demand the transparency in the executive that they worked so hard to eliminate, regard all foreign entanglements as stupid at best and "wag the dog" subject changing at worst, and immediately seek to open as many investigations as possible into the "scandals" of our "war time president", the better to hamstring his ability to see to governance.

Which, at the end of the day, seems to be the final uniting principle: prove Government Doesn't Work by fucking it up as hard as you can.

And, as reliably as the sun rises in the east, certain members of this board will be absolutely shocked that we find any of this in any way hypocritical or cynical or insane, since, they will be at some pains to explain, the circumstances are entirely different.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #130 of 169
9/26/08 at 12:44pm
After this is all over I think it will be a long while until the voting public forgives the republicans for all this crap they've heaped on everyone. What a mess!

And what a 3 ring circus!

http://www.comcast.net/articles/tv/2...ain.Letterman/

You don't want to piss off Letterman.

I think McSame is just about done now.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #131 of 169
9/26/08 at 12:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sslarson View Post

Back at ya.

The misunderstandings and misconceptions about the Great Depression, the New Deal and related circumstances surrounding these events and responses to them (including the present one) are so deep and pervasive I wouldn't even know where to begin.

Blaming this whole thing on deregulation is just as naive, short-sighted and foolish as saying the health care system is fucked up because it is a "free market".

And believing that because Mises's completely nonsensical and reality ignoring theory is logically consistent, doesn't mean any acolyte of the Austrian school knows what the hell is going on.

The mere fact that Austrian economists (if you can call them that) have tautological theories explaining everything and are NEVER wrong should suggest to any thinking person that something as profoundly stupid as intelligent design is the basis of their trust in the free market.
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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post #132 of 169
9/26/08 at 12:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardeeharhar View Post

And believing that because Mises's completely nonsensical and reality ignoring theory is logically consistent, doesn't mean any acolyte of the Austrian school knows what the hell is going on.

The mere fact that economists (if you can call them that) have tautological theories explaining everything and are NEVER wrong should suggest to any thinking person that something as profoundly stupid as intelligent design is the basis of their trust in the free market.


You mean these Austrian dudes?

This "grave crisis" is completely phony

Quote:
See this excellent posting by Robert Higgs, who has an eye for these things. He looks at the credit markets to find that there is not calamitous shortage. "The sky is not falling. Lenders continue to lend at high rates, and the economy continues to operate reasonably well."

I'm glad that someone has said it. The only real crisis is the one being created by the response. As the days have dragged on, it is becoming increasingly obvious that that the Bush administration is attempting to turn a series of business failures in the midst of a downturn--with traceable errors rooted in government policy--into a scary national calamity as a way of looting the country on behalf of the government and its friends.

Another way to say that is that this "crisis" is really a big fake that the policy response can turn into something real. In the same way that the Bush administration turned the criminal events of 9-11 into an act of war requiring a globalized military response--which has generated more terrorism and destruction--it is taking some splashy business failures in a few sectors of the economy, failures which signal the existence of an economic downturn, and attempting to turn them into a rationale for full-scale financial socialism that really would be our doom.

Actually, I agree with that last paragraph.

Jon Stewart agrees. \

But all this economic mumbo-jumbo still has me head spinning, no thanks to all the politicians, pundits and just plain idiots out there.
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post #133 of 169
9/26/08 at 2:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post

Jon Stewart agrees. \

Scary.


Quote:
As the days have dragged on, it is becoming increasingly obvious that that the Bush administration is attempting to turn a series of business failures in the midst of a downturn--with traceable errors rooted in government policy--into a scary national calamity as a way of looting the country on behalf of the government and its friends.

Lest anyone want to lay all of this at Bush's feet (some of it surely should be) let's not take our eyes off congress who a) controls appropriations, and b) is controlled by the Democrats. Are there any Democrats that are standing up against this theft?

This is a bipartisan clusterfuck.

The only "negotiating" going on here is to arrange for the following:

1. Who gets (political) cover to avoid any blame for creating this problem
2. Who will get political credit for "saving" America

And, most importantly...

3. How to divide up the loot
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post #134 of 169
9/26/08 at 4:51pm
I do believe that this unfortunate series of events in the banking industry has been ginned up considerably by the White House to help turn the election in McCain's favor. Of that I'm certain.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #135 of 169
9/26/08 at 5:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

I do believe that this unfortunate series of events in the banking industry has been ginned up considerably by the White House to help turn the election in McCain's favor. Of that I'm certain.


Well they did the wrong thing if that's true. McSame's numbers have been dropping.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #136 of 169
9/26/08 at 5:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sslarson View Post

Scary.




Lest anyone want to lay all of this at Bush's feet (some of it surely should be) let's not take our eyes off congress who a) controls appropriations, and b) is controlled by the Democrats. Are there any Democrats that are standing up against this theft?

This is a bipartisan clusterfuck.

The only "negotiating" going on here is to arrange for the following:

1. Who gets (political) cover to avoid any blame for creating this problem
2. Who will get political credit for "saving" America

And, most importantly...

3. How to divide up the loot

Let's not take our eyes off of the fact that we didn't get into this over night and and 6 out of the last 8 years has been republican / republican.

They'll get the blame and rightly so. No one competent has been at the wheel all of that time. This is much like the Savings and Loan debacle of the 80's. And guess what republican presidental candidate was for deregulation then?

http://current.com/items/89331099_ev...crisis?xid=216

Also polls show most voting americans feel the same way.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #137 of 169
9/26/08 at 5:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Well they did the wrong thing if that's true. McSame's numbers have been dropping.

They certainly screwed the pooch. That's for sure. But that's because they don't have a disciplined candidate to drive the concept home.

Step #1 was Cheney's curious hand in the George/Russia confrontation. That was designed to help McCain use his biggest asset, foreign policy, and make himself look decisive, strong, and presidential.

Step #2 was to help shore up McCain's strength by pushing an unnecessary bailout plan that McCain could use to his advantage.

Step #3 was to get all this to explode just before or around October. I believe this was their big October surprise plan that came about two weeks early.

The problem is that McCain is erratic and probably too decisive (read radically impulsive) and goes off message one day to the next. Love or hate George Bush, but he was a master campaigner.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #138 of 169
9/26/08 at 5:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

They certainly screwed the pooch. That's for sure. But that's because they don't have a disciplined candidate to drive the concept home.

Step #1 was Cheney's curious hand in the George/Russia confrontation. That was designed to help McCain use his biggest asset, foreign policy, and make himself look decisive, strong, and presidential.

Step #2 was to help shore up McCain's strength by pushing an unnecessary bailout plan that McCain could use to his advantage.

Step #3 was to get all this to explode just before or around October. I believe this was their big October surprise plan that came about two weeks early.

The problem is that McCain is erratic and probably too decisive (read radically impulsive) and goes off message one day to the next. Love or hate George Bush, but he was a master campaigner.

The other problem is that Bush is loathed by substantial percentages of his own party, at this point. If congressional Republicans had toed the line, they could have orchestrated the appearance of McCain coming in to save the day. But a big chunk of them told Bush to shove it, leaving McCain having to navigate between shoring up the pres and alienating the winger contingent. From what I've read, he ended up just coming off noncommittal and completely unhelpful.

Of course, it probably would have helped if had taken a second to familiarize himself with any of the proposals on the table. Did someone tell him that the fix was in and all he had to do was show up and look determined, and his ducks would fall in a row? Cause he sure didn't seem like he intended anything substantiative.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #139 of 169
9/27/08 at 3:53pm
Anywho, I've guess we've moved on to "who won the debate", but, uh, McCain made a huge fucking deal about how the Worst Financial Crisis Ever made an old Navy hand such as himself realize that is was time for "all hands on deck" to meet that train head on!

No time for bullshit! All bets are off! Suspend the campaign and cancel the debates, this is the most important thing ever, ever ever!

And then he cancelled Letterman, went on the network news shows instead, spoke at a conference, and eventually got around to making his way to Washington, showed up unprepared and by all accounts kind of disinterested, then did the debate anyway. I think his campaign ads were down for what, 20 minutes?

And now? Any sense of urgency from McCain? Or did he just lose interest, just like he lost interest in Georgia?

I mean, holy fucking shit. How can a politician be this publicly erratic and still have any standing at all? Does half the country have some kind of goggles on that make this kind of thing look decisive?

Biggest problem in the history of the world, John, remember? Oh yeah, that was more than 24 hours ago, so probably not.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #140 of 169
9/27/08 at 3:58pm
If I were president, I'd sit the democrats and the republicans down and say "stop the bullshit."

I would also tell the Mormons and the Baptists to "stop the bullshit."
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #141 of 169
9/27/08 at 4:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter View Post

If I were president, I'd sit the democrats and the republicans down and say "stop the bullshit."

I would also tell the Mormons and the Baptists to "stop the bullshit."

But first? I'd look in the mirror and say "stop the bullshit."
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #142 of 169
9/27/08 at 4:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

But first? I'd look in the mirror and say "stop the bullshit."

I would also sit the Brahman bulls down with the Hereford bulls and say "stop the horseshit."
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #143 of 169
9/27/08 at 4:26pm
McCain's and angry, angry man. If things don't go well in the weeks to come, I wonder if we'll get some kind of serious, on-tape blowup?

I mean, he's been doing this a long time, so I assume he knows how to keep it together, but doesn't it seem like lately he's fraying at the edges? He just doesn't seem...... good.

Campaigns are stressful, he's not gettin' any younger, and if he seems to be headed for a loss..... who knows? Maybe he'll try to defeat Obama with his bare hands.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #144 of 169
9/27/08 at 5:32pm
I'm sure McCain is absolutely furious that his last chance at the presidency is going to be destroyed by "that boy". Seething, I'm sure.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #145 of 169
9/27/08 at 6:59pm
McCain didn't show up for the bailout negotiations today.

Quote:
Asked why Mr. McCain did not go to Capitol Hill after coming back to Washington to help with negotiations, [McCain adviser] Mr. Salter replied that “he can effectively do what he needs to do by phone.’’
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post #146 of 169
9/27/08 at 7:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

I'm sure McCain is absolutely furious that his last chance at the presidency is going to be destroyed by "that boy". Seething, I'm sure.

I'm waiting for my friends from the "Donate to Obama" thread to blow a collective gasket over the use of "boy."

... not holding my breath.
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post #147 of 169
9/27/08 at 7:44pm
Barack Obama, John McCain and the Language of Race

Quote:
A blatant example surfaced earlier this month, when a Georgia Republican, Representative Lynn Westmoreland, described the Obamas as uppity in response to a reporters question. Mr. Westmoreland, who actually stood by the term when given a chance to retreat, later tried to excuse himself by saying that the dictionary definition carried no racial meaning. That seems implausible. Mr. Westmoreland is from the South, where the vernacular meaning of the word has always been clear.

The Jim Crow South institutionalized racial paternalism in its newspapers, which typically denied black adults the courtesy titles of Mr. and Mrs. and reduced them to children by calling them by first names only. Representative Geoff Davis, Republican of Kentucky, succumbed to the old language earlier this year when describing what he viewed as Mr. Obamas lack of preparedness to handle nuclear policy. That boys finger does not need to be on the button, he said.

Quote:
Mr. Obama seems to understand that he is always an utterance away from a statement or a phrase that could transform him in a campaign ad from the affable, rational and racially ambiguous candidate into the archetypical angry black man who scares off the white vote. His caution is evident from the way he sifts and searches the language as he speaks, stepping around words that might push him into the danger zone.

These maneuvers are often painful to watch. The troubling part is that they are necessary.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #148 of 169
9/27/08 at 7:50pm
Quote:
I'm waiting for my friends from the "Donate to Obama" thread to blow a collective gasket over the use of "boy."

... not holding my breath.

You mean you think we should be mad at Northgate for using the phrase, in quotes, in a context that makes it clear he's referencing a notorious remark by a Republican congressman and linking it to McCain's sense of privilege?

Why?
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #149 of 169
9/27/08 at 7:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

You mean you think we should be mad at Northgate for using the phrase, in quotes, in a context that makes it clear he's referencing a notorious remark by a Republican congressman and linking it to McCain's sense of privilege?

Why?

Anything to throw a discussion off course, as Camp McCain has shown they will do whenever they get an opportunity.

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #150 of 169
9/27/08 at 8:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

You mean you think we should be mad at Northgate for using the phrase, in quotes, in a context that makes it clear he's referencing a notorious remark by a Republican congressman and linking it to McCain's sense of privilege?

Why?

I love this. Go read what happened to my "quotes defense." What a riot!
How did we know that he was referencing Davis and not Carter, or that he's not the eeeevil racist that I was painted as by some of the gallery here in PO?

The defended double standard rolls on.
"Stand Up for Chuck"
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"Stand Up for Chuck"
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post #151 of 169
9/27/08 at 8:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

I love this. Go read what happened to my "quotes defense." What a riot!
How did we know that he was referencing Davis and not Carter, or that he's not the eeeevil racist that I was painted as by some of the gallery here in PO?

The defended double standard rolls on.

Well, there's "double standards", and then there's "context that children could grasp."

I don't see the point of these games.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #152 of 169
9/27/08 at 8:20pm
Quote:
JIM LEHRER: And do you think that -- if it happens that he is elected, or even just being nominated, is -- will send positive ripple effects throughout the country on the race issue?

JIMMY CARTER: Around the world. Around the world. And I think it already has sent a wave of approbation and admiration in many countries around the world, just knowing that this black boy who grew up with just a loving mother and grandparents -- and that was about all he had to start with -- does now have a chance to become the nominee of the Democratic Party for president.

And Rose and I have visited a few more than 125 nations since I left the White House. And we've seen a disillusionment about our country in the last eight years, with a lot of things happening, like torturing of prisoners and that sort of thing. I won't go into detail about that.

But I don't think there's any doubt that there's a spirit and a bright, new hope for America within this country and around the world. And if Obama is elected, which I think he is going to be, then I think that will be the transforming race for the end of racism, and prejudice, and hatred between races in this country.

JIM LEHRER: That's quite a statement.

JIMMY CARTER: I believe it's true.

President Carter Mulls Historical Significance of Barack Obama
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
post #153 of 169
9/27/08 at 8:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I don't see the point of these games.

Ya know, come to think of it, I didn't see the point of the "let's make the case that Jubelum is a racist even after he explained his reference and then had the accusation beat to death" game, either.

"Stand Up for Chuck"
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"Stand Up for Chuck"
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post #154 of 169
9/27/08 at 9:14pm
Quote:
Inside John McCains campaign the expectation is growing that there will be a popularity boosting pre-election wedding in Alaska between Bristol Palin, 17, and Levi Johnston, 18, her schoolmate and father of her baby. It would be fantastic, said a McCain insider. You would have every TV camera there. The entire country would be watching. It would shut down the race for a week.

Link.

I have never seen someone run for president who was so intent on shutting down his campaign to run for the presidency.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #155 of 169
9/27/08 at 9:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Well, there's "double standards", and then there's "context that children could grasp."

I don't see the point of these games.

Duh, addabox! The point is that Jimmy Carter is bad, and so we should be able to call people whatever racial slurs we want!
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #156 of 169
9/28/08 at 6:07am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter View Post

Link.

I have never seen someone run for president who was so intent on shutting down his campaign to run for the presidency.

Can you imagine your 17 year old, barely dry behind the ears, getting MARRIED to her boyfriend because he knocked her up?
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post #157 of 169
9/28/08 at 11:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outsider View Post

Can you imagine your 17 year old, barely dry behind the ears, getting MARRIED to her boyfriend because he knocked her up?

Can you imagine being a professional political operative and being excited about it because it'll shut down the campaign?
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #158 of 169
9/28/08 at 1:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter View Post

Can you imagine being a professional political operative and being excited about it because it'll shut down the campaign?

There's a pretty good exegesis of McCain's hero driven narrative over at Kos:

Quote:
So we have seen McCain struggle to recapture the glory of years past in an effort to once again be embraced by this nation (this time, in the voting booth, not on the tarmac). The actions of this campaign--especially in the last several weeks--have been those of a candidate in search of a "Commander Codpiece" moment, a moment where the candidate can exude leadership and radiate toughness. The campaign, in other words, has been in search of an event that will match the campaign's narrative of heroism to reality. A daunting task, indeed.

.....

Quote:
In this world, McCain is the Don Quixote candidate, staggering through the campaign, searching in vain for a moment which will make America see the McCain of old, the one who was revered and cheered as a hero. Seizing upon crisis after crisis--real or manufactured, big or small--he is a single-man cavalry riding a unicorn of bipartisanship, galloping towards the outrage of the day, rescuing his country in the hour of its need and causing the world to gasp and dip its head in awe of his saving leadership.

Shutting down his campaign is an effort to move the narrative from "politics" to "heroics."

I'm not sure how a wedding works with this- maybe he kills a bear that tries to eat the bride? Or maybe anything but "politics"-- hoe down, beer bender, killing spree-- is starting to look really good to McCain, at this point.

"I'm shutting down the campaign and me and Sarah are going to drive across the country in this totally cherry Impala and, like, take turns sleeping and drive all night and, my friends, it will be awesome!"
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #159 of 169
9/28/08 at 1:22pm
I'm not sure I agree. It seems to me that the more people see of McPalin, the more they don't like them. And so stopping campaigning works in his favor, because people then just operate on what they *think* about McPalin, rather than the actuality of McPalin.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #160 of 169
9/28/08 at 1:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter View Post

I'm not sure I agree. It seems to me that the more people see of McPalin, the more they don't like them. And so stopping campaigning works in his favor, because people then just operate on what they *think* about McPalin, rather than the actuality of McPalin.

I think that's the handler's strategy, for sure, but I think McCain hisself really, really, really wants a bullhorn and a pile of rubble to climb up on.

Would be kind of awesome if he killed him a bear, though. Although, the way the campaign has been going, he'd accidently kill Bristol, Levi would marry the bear, and they'd claim that that was the plan all along and to suggest otherwise would be racist.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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