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Apple shares tumble on downgrades from investment banks - Page 2

post #41 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankie View Post

I thought Republicans were good at screwing the little guy and middle class but at least were good at big business...guess they aren't even good at that...

Worse than that is to see stupid or ignorant people STILL voting for them in your next elections...

As for the U.S. crisis, it's just the beginning of the end for a diseased system; you guys really needed a shake-up to realize that the U.S. is a giant sinking ship, with no solidity whatsoever to finance its own debts.

The good thing for Bush et al is that countries haven't YET perceived that the dollar is a moribund and unsustainable currency, so you can still rely on some valuing movements here and there. Apple would be wise to prioritize other markets more and more in the future...

The U.S. is gonna recover ONLY if/when it finally and humbly realizes that it's in dire need of a helping hand from the rest of the world.

No more unipolar world, folks...not even in military terms.
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post #42 of 146
LOL. Looks like I was right.
Fragmentation is not just something we have to acknowledge and accept. Fragmentation is something that we deal with every day, and we must accept it as a fact of the iPhone platform experience.

Ste...
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Fragmentation is not just something we have to acknowledge and accept. Fragmentation is something that we deal with every day, and we must accept it as a fact of the iPhone platform experience.

Ste...
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post #43 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post

How many reports and articles are written explaining how Apple usually bucks the overall market trends? How they can still gain market share (make money), even when the overall computer market is slumping? And yet we still have these buffoons downgrading Apple, because "of weak consumer spending". It amazes me, how they are able to manipulate the market in such a manner. Personally I could care less about stocks and the market, and would love to see Apple's stock completely collapse and Apple buy it all back and privatize itself. It has the cash to do it and have plenty leftover to sustain itself through a depression.

The biggest problem with privitization is that your taxes go up so I doubt Apple would do that.
post #44 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyopiaRocks View Post

- Is it illegal to be that stupid? Perhaps it should be, but legislating against low-IQ behavior might carry unintended consequences...





Quote:
Originally Posted by MyopiaRocks View Post

...
Free advice (that you're free to disregard): People will not be buying apple stock (or any other stock) until banks stop crashing. You will know that banks are in decent shape when the interbank rate resembles historic norms. Interbank rates will trend back to normal when US Treasury bonds start yielding a % even remotely close to the inflation rate (not cause-effect, but the two should trend together in some order). And none of this is happening right now. In fact, as of this morning they're all still heading in the other direction. <--- not to scare anyone, but we should all remember that this is a generational-level recession/correction, akin to a 100-year flood, and not a speedbump... people should invest accordingly.

Well said. Investing = risk. This ride is not over. And to think Congress has a 9% approval rating, assisted in getting us into this mess, and is now working to get us out of it by spending more of our money. It is time to rethink how well "We the People" are being represented.

[/soapbox]
Blog: PowerConferenceCalls.com
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Blog: PowerConferenceCalls.com
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post #45 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gee4orce View Post

Isn't it about time they banned short selling of ALL stocks ? These analysts suddenly predict lowered profits for a stock, lower their estimates, surprise surprise, the stock falls. Someone is making a killing here, and it stinks.

Apple totally baffles the analysts because it just doesn't fit into their models. Is it a tech company ? A media company ? A mobile phone company ? A consumer electronics company ? A hardware company ? A software company ? A retailer ? A manufacturer ? An online retailer ?

The answer to all of those is 'Yes' - unlike any other company that exists. Therefore, Apple gets beat with the same stick that's beating every other stock in each of these markets. It's crazy.

With $21 billion sat in the bank I think Apple's looking pretty damned pretty right about now. I just hope that cash isn't sat in any of THESE banks' accounts....

They should absolutely not ban shorting stocks. The stock market needs to be able to react and trade in both up and down markets. Money always goes the most efficient route to gain profits and right now, those routes are leading away from the US.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #46 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by brlawyer View Post

Worse than that is to see stupid or ignorant people STILL voting for them in your next elections...

As for the U.S. crisis, it's just the beginning of the end for a diseased system; you guys really needed a shake-up to realize that the U.S. is a giant sinking ship, with no solidity whatsoever to finance its own debts.

The good thing for Bush et al is that countries haven't YET perceived that the dollar is a moribund and unsustainable currency, so you can still rely on some valuing movements here and there. Apple would be wise to prioritize other markets more and more in the future...

The U.S. is gonna recover ONLY if/when it finally and humbly realizes that it's in dire need of a helping hand from the rest of the world.

No more unipolar world, folks...not even in military terms.

Actually it was Clinton that started this mess - I know that makes all of this "it's Bush's fault" thing not quite as good but we should really be after facts - not political spin...

http://www.huduser.org/publications/txt/hdbrf2.txt

Also, the US would be better off if we stopped giving the rest of the world our money but nobody talks about that... The only reason we'd need help is because we've insisted on helping the rest of the world... But I suppose helping the country that's helped the most is out of the question huh?

What about when the banks got together and bought tons of the EURO because it had fallen to 80 cents per USD but they sat idly by and didn't give a crap as the USD fell to less than 70 cents per EURO...
post #47 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gee4orce View Post

Isn't it about time they banned short selling of ALL stocks ? These analysts suddenly predict lowered profits for a stock, lower their estimates, surprise surprise, the stock falls. Someone is making a killing here, and it stinks.

People who do not understand economics should not talk like this.

If you banned short selling, the market would cease to function. If you don't understand why, go read a book. You can start with A Random Walk Down Wall Street.
post #48 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankie View Post

I thought Republicans were good at screwing the little guy and middle class but at least were good at big business...guess they aren't even good at that...

This stinks of ignorance and shouldn't even be here. Apples stock going down has little to do with partisan politics, but hey, you have an internet connection and anonymity, so I guess you have the right to spew any ol' verbal diarrhea you feel like \
post #49 of 146
Here's a link to a post ("Apple Revisited: How Technical Analysis Can Help Fundamental Investors") by a blogger, Andy Cole, on the Seeking Alpha site on why Apple's price is now attractive. (He was bearish on Apple at $162):
http://seekingalpha.com/article/9783...ntal-investors
post #50 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hattig View Post

Hmm, so Apple has $22b in the bank, and the share price is dropping to a very low point. If Apple believe in their future products and profitability, could we expect to see them buy up a lot of their own shares, especially if they tumble below $100? Then they can sell them in the future when they are $200+ again, and raise a metric buttload of cash.

You don't quite understand how stock repurchases work.
post #51 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmc6000 View Post

Actually it was Clinton that started this mess - I know that makes all of this "it's Bush's fault" thing not quite as good but we should really be after facts - not political spin...
http://www.huduser.org/publications/txt/hdbrf2.txt

Here's a recent article arguing the same case:

Another case of collusion? It's time to take a hard look Washington as well as Wall Street
By Peter Brimelow, MarketWatch
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/stor...-CBC6C819F983}
post #52 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

Apple is surrounded by hysteria. Every news item is either proclaimed the greatest advance in human history or as a total disaster. Everything is blown out of proportion. That's why APPL's stock is so volitile.

That and under jobs every product tends to be either a giant hit or a huge disaster. Not much room in between.
post #53 of 146
"She now expects December quarter per-share earnings to decline 8 percent year-over-year, compared to the 29 percent growth witnessed during the June quarter."

This chick is delusional.
post #54 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankie View Post

I thought Republicans were good at screwing the little guy and middle class but at least were good at big business...guess they aren't even good at that...

Sorry Frankie, you have the wrong party to blame. Democrats are the party of the "little guy" remember? At least that's what they've been telling us for years anyway. And you do realize Al Gore is on the board of directors at Apple right?
Just say no to MacMall.  They don't honor their promotions and won't respond to customer inquiries.  There are better retailers out there.
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Just say no to MacMall.  They don't honor their promotions and won't respond to customer inquiries.  There are better retailers out there.
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post #55 of 146
I have to say I love the stock market, and wish I was in there now, but with no short side (they banned short selling in Aus becuase they (rightly) worried people in the US would be looking for a hedge) there's no point.

Banning short selling is just stupid. Instead we'll have a long grind down as people hope it will come back up but it keeps going down. Then people will panic. The speculators will stay on the sidelines because they can't hedge any of their (high risk) trades properly. There will be a capitulation because there always is, but it will be more painful. Think pulling off an infected band-aid slowly.

It's the 29th of September. Wednesday is the 1st of October. Don't say investors aren't superstitious. But keep in mind that the market turns at the point of maximum pessimism and maximum optimism. When people believe that the market will never go up again, that the financial system is totally fucked and that they would never put money into stocks, that is the time to buy. We can't be that far off. Meanwhile, people who are long (and lets face it that's everyone who is playing). I hope you have a strong stomach.

Apple will bottom way under $100.
post #56 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmc6000 View Post

So they say the consumer environment isn't good but they haven't based it on any REAL numbers from Apple. Considering the number of people I know that have bought Macs, iPods and iPhones I don't think the average Mac consumer is as affected by this than the likes of Dell and HP. Of course when Apple has their conference call and report great growth and increase revenue, again, I'm sure they'll all just say "Oh they can't do it again" and drive the price down some more. I just love the fact that we live in a hear-say based investment environment rather than a merit and numbers based environment (rolls eyes).

You miss the point.

For growth in unit sales Apple is dependent on PC switchers - the existing user base is a replacement, no growth market. It is these same switchers who are going to be most price sensitive - that's one of the reasons they bought an inexpensive PC in the first place.

So Apple loses new sales while simultaneously bleeding margin.

That's why the stock has so much further downside. The post conference call reaction will be just like the broader market spikes resulting from multiple taxpayer bailouts. After a day or two of euphoria/speculation/short covering they are history and the poor macro environment reasserts itself. A great company like Apple in an economy heading for depression equates to a bad stock. Fundamentals are not a meaningful metric in such an environment - macro factors dominate. Plus, of course, there's the key variable that we dare not discuss - the rock-star CEO's possibly failing health.
post #57 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Knights View Post

Here's a recent article arguing the same case:

Another case of collusion? It's time to take a hard look Washington as well as Wall Street
By Peter Brimelow, MarketWatch
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/stor...-CBC6C819F983}

So, basically, it is our obsession with being PC that has driven us down this path. Lovely...
post #58 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

Funny how she mentioned sub-$1,000 just as rumors about a possible new notebook refresh and possible desktop with price cuts. which will bring the MacBook basic configuration below $1,000. Beside, Apple already have sub-$1,000 computer called Mac Mini but I guess cheap computers should also be ugly and noisy to qualify as cheap.

I think she is referring to the sub $100 portable market, not desktops. It will seem silly however, if, as many pundits think, Apple has an answer to this market segment in the next event on October 14th or so.

Quite the gamble really. If a person buys stock today at a seriously under-valued $100 or so price, and then *if* Apple comes out with the new mystery device that conquers that market segment in early October, then it's huge profit for anyone who took the risk.

If on the other hand the announcement is just about laptop refreshes that are slightly cheaper, then the stock will dive even further and it's a big loss (at least short term). Interesting days indeed.

Mr. Jobs has a gigantic blind spot when it comes to low priced computers, and Apple in general doesn't usually care what the rest of the market is doing or try to respond to market trends like the sub $100 net books, they just make what they make, knowing that if it's good it will sell. So it's entirely possible that Apple *doesn't* have a sub-100 answer in the works.
In Windows, a window can be a document, it can be an application, or it can be a window that contains other documents or applications. Theres just no consistency. Its just a big grab bag of monkey...
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In Windows, a window can be a document, it can be an application, or it can be a window that contains other documents or applications. Theres just no consistency. Its just a big grab bag of monkey...
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post #59 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankie View Post

I thought Republicans were good at screwing the little guy and middle class but at least were good at big business...guess they aren't even good at that...

So maybe your stereotype needs readjusting...last two years democrats have controlled the Congress. And if you remember our civics, Congress controlls the spending, not the president
post #60 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by spacevator View Post

So maybe your stereotype needs readjusting...last two years democrats have controlled the Congress. And if you remember our civics, Congress controlls the spending, not the president

Logic doesn't apply well in political threads - just FYI
post #61 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmc6000 View Post

Actually it was Clinton that started this mess - I know that makes all of this "it's Bush's fault" thing not quite as good but we should really be after facts - not political spin...

http://www.huduser.org/publications/txt/hdbrf2.txt

Also, the US would be better off if we stopped giving the rest of the world our money but nobody talks about that... The only reason we'd need help is because we've insisted on helping the rest of the world... But I suppose helping the country that's helped the most is out of the question huh?

What about when the banks got together and bought tons of the EURO because it had fallen to 80 cents per USD but they sat idly by and didn't give a crap as the USD fell to less than 70 cents per EURO...

While the $50B we spend on non-military aid to other countries isn't small potatoes, it kind of pales in comparison to the rest of the budget.

And it's true that Clinton initiated a huge wave of home ownership. I bought my first house through an FHA loan under Clinton and it was a great opportunity. However, after 8 years of a Republican administration and mostly Republican House and Senate, it's hard to blame the current meltdown on a 10-year-old initiative by a previous administration. THAT is virtually the DEFINITION of political spin.
post #62 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booga View Post

While the $50B we spend on non-military aid to other countries isn't small potatoes, it kind of pales in comparison to the rest of the budget.

And it's true that Clinton initiated a huge wave of home ownership. I bought my first house through an FHA loan under Clinton and it was a great opportunity. However, after 8 years of a Republican administration and mostly Republican House and Senate, it's hard to blame the current meltdown on a 10-year-old initiative by a previous administration. THAT is virtually the DEFINITION of political spin.

Fine - blame the Republicans but stop saying 8 years. The Dems have had control for the past 2 so, at most, it's 6. Also, if you're not going to be biased you should blame BOTH Clinton and Bush. Clinton for starting the giving of loans to people who were more likely to default and Bush for continuing the stupid plan.

Yeah, I got my house through an FHA loan as well and it was nice but if I had to save up a little longer to get a house to keep 700 BILLION of tax payer dollars from going to companies who are stupid then I'll deal with that.

Edit: You don't get the whole "straw that broke the camels back" thing huh? This has been building up since Clinton started that plan and it's finally at the point where the camel can't support it any longer...
post #63 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

First, she said, PC unit growth is decelerating to the point where the remaining growth opportunities largely exist in the sub-$1,000 market, a segment where Apple doesn't yet compete.

Bring back the Cube.

Shuttle already make one and it can take a quad CPU:

http://eu.shuttle.com/en/DesktopDefa...70_read-14950/

Note how the price list goes from very cheap up to about £1000 - some of the lowest prices are just the enclosure though.

So many applications but very few models:

http://eu.shuttle.com/en/desktopdefa.../noblendout-1/

But one huge problem - they're hideous.

It doesn't matter how low Apple price the iMac by cutting margins, the display + the laptop parts keep the price high, same with the laptops. If they made a Cube then they can keep margins fairly high but still be about $200-300 cheaper at least.

There would be about 3 purchases from me if they made one 'cos I need to upgrade my home computer and a couple at work could use upgrading but a Mac Pro is too much money. We have the Mini and it's not fast enough and the iMac is shiny as well as not being as fast/cheap as an equivalent Cube. We already have very nice displays so we don't need to buy new ones that can get dead pixels and need sent away like the iMacs we already have that are outside of warranty and won't be replaced with other ones.

I'm not suggesting that Apple's share price drop is because they don't sell this model - everyone is suffering - but there is a huge market that people all over the world keep telling Apple is there for the taking and they just don't do it.

PC manufacturers are already there and they have the users so they will never see any growth there. Apple don't have the market and can take a significant portion so that they don't suffer so much during this period. Maybe they don't have to care with so much money in the bank but why try to compete with PC manufacturers when the market is strong? They can do some serious damage if they hit the PC crowd right in their comfort zone.

If they don't release new machines soon whatever they are, it looks likely AAPL will slide below 100.

I'm not sure why they released the iphones first to be honest. The back to school segment is already in school probably with whatever new laptop they had to get so they're not exactly going to jump on a new model in the middle of October.
post #64 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmc6000 View Post

Actually it was Clinton that started this mess - I know that makes all of this "it's Bush's fault" thing not quite as good but we should really be after facts - not political spin...

http://www.huduser.org/publications/txt/hdbrf2.txt

No, this started with the Fed basically printing money and flooding lenders with easy capital, leading to foolish lending practices which lured dangerously uninformed homebuyers into catastrophic situations.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #65 of 146
Apples going to eat up market share like Bank of America is eating up banks!
Nasdaq is currently valued at 100:1 and the Dow at 10:1 per share to actual value.All these companies are over valued fundamentally.Apple is going to make strong progress.
The EU economy is $16 trillion a year and it's percentage of debt is considerably lower than the US.Maybe,it's not fair to compare the two,but it makes the euro look even more attractive,adding further weight to the falling dollar and in turn the US debt.
We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #66 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmc6000 View Post

Fine - blame the Republicans but stop saying 8 years. The Dems have had control for the past 2 so, at most, it's 6. Also, if you're not going to be biased you should blame BOTH Clinton and Bush. Clinton for starting the giving of loans to people who were more likely to default and Bush for continuing the stupid plan.

Yeah, I got my house through an FHA loan as well and it was nice but if I had to save up a little longer to get a house to keep 700 BILLION of tax payer dollars from going to companies who are stupid then I'll deal with that.

Edit: You don't get the whole "straw that broke the camels back" thing huh? This has been building up since Clinton started that plan and it's finally at the point where the camel can't support it any longer...

I think you misunderstand the problem. The problem is lack of oversight on stupid interest-only loans and packaging them into "investment vehicles" that had a skewed risk analysis. Clinton was right, and his plan was sound. The problem was the subsequent "keep the government out of business" mentality removed almost all oversight and allowed the system to melt down.

As for the "6 years versus 8" I did say "most of the last 8 years". But if you want to be picky, the Republicans had control of Congress from 1994-2006, with 6 of those years also having control of the executive branch, and it's hard to fix everything overnight. Especially when you only have a 50/49 (plus Lieberman, if you count him) majority in the senate. You can't even call a vote on a bill with 51 votes in the senate.

With 6 years of Republicans dominating essentially all three branches of government, the current nation pretty much exactly reflects the outcome of a country run according to Republican ideals.
post #67 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

That and under jobs every product tends to be either a giant hit or a huge disaster. Not much room in between.

Which products have been a huge disaster ?
post #68 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

No, this started with the Fed basically printing money and flooding lenders with easy capital, leading to foolish lending practices which lured dangerously uninformed homebuyers into catastrophic situations.

It's simply AMAZING how Republican defenders CAN spin the truth...you have had 8 DAMN years to lead a giant country, just to bring it to its knees...

Yes, it IS BUSH's fault for deciding to engage in an illegal war that bleeds billions of dollars per year.

Yes, it IS BUSH's fault to let the Fed flood your fragile market with worthless dollars, soon to become a big collection of green paper all over the world.

Yes, it IS BUSH's fault to let Wall Street play with financials as if they were a game of monopoly without a single drop of decent regulation.

And you STILL wanna vote for that old man and his whorish vice-president? Gimme a break, yankees! GO FIGURE!
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post #69 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

No, this started with the Fed basically printing money and flooding lenders with easy capital, leading to foolish lending practices which lured dangerously uninformed homebuyers into catastrophic situations.

The truth is the borrower/homebuyer actually fund the "loans" they take. Banks do not lend money they create it.
post #70 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by brlawyer View Post

Yes, it IS BUSH's fault to let Wall Street play with financials as if they were a game of monopoly without a single drop of decent regulation.

And you STILL wanna vote for that old man and his whorish vice-president?

Your last sentence shows your intelligence. I always say they should teach basic economics and finance in school, right up there with reading, writing, and math/science.

The current financial meltdown is not due to low taxes or evil doings by the Fed. The market's failures are complex and go back a ways. There is plenty of blame to go around. During Clinton's admin, taxes were so high that people were employing dangerous strategies to avoid taxes.

During Bush's term, banks were allowed to give loans to people who could not pay back the loans. Similar to throwing people who can't swim in a pool and then acting surprised when they drown.

Greed does not self regulate. We need intelligent regulations. Key word: Intelligent. If we knee jerk this and the pendulum swings too far the other way, we'll be back discussing unintended consequences of crossing the line between free market capitalism and over control.

Apple doesn't operate in a vacuum. It's stock will take a hit as the economy sorts out the bailout package and housing finds a floor. Right now, Fear is in control.

Deflating bubbles are painful. We've had two rather painful ones since the early 90s.
post #71 of 146
This is a HUGE buy opportunity for those wanting to get into AAPL.

Seriously, you will thank yourself in 3 months.

Don't be left saying 'I wish I had gotten in when AAPL was...', cos now is that time, they say buy low, well here is your chance.
post #72 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by bugsnw View Post

Your last sentence shows your intelligence. I always say they should teach basic economics and finance in school, right up there with reading, writing, and math/science.

The current financial meltdown is not due to low taxes or evil doings by the Fed. The market's failures are complex and go back a ways. There is plenty of blame to go around. During Clinton's admin, taxes were so high that people were employing dangerous strategies to avoid taxes.

During Bush's term, banks were allowed to give loans to people who could not pay back the loans. Similar to throwing people who can't swim in a pool and then acting surprised when they drown.

Greed does not self regulate. We need intelligent regulations. Key word: Intelligent. If we knee jerk this and the pendulum swings too far the other way, we'll be back discussing unintended consequences of crossing the line between free market capitalism and over control.

Apple doesn't operate in a vacuum. It's stock will take a hit as the economy sorts out the bailout package and housing finds a floor. Right now, Fear is in control.

Deflating bubbles are painful. We've had two rather painful ones since the early 90s.

I surely have had more high-level Economics than you, judging from your pitiful answer. Bush's government would've been able to see the writing on the wall, as any reasonable economist would tell you. But they stated the OPPOSITE and said all was fine. This has nothing to do with Democrat policies that occurred 8 years ago. This has to do with the "laissez faire, laissez passer" orientation that has proven ruined for years and years in several other situations. And also with financing a gigantic deficit via other countries that, just now, are realizing their mistakes.

I am glad you said my last statement shows my intelligence, as I would never vote for the continuation of such ridiculous policies. Reality is: your government has always trusted that the "invisible" hand of the market would regulate itself.

Fact: a financial system without clear and firm regulations is like a balloon in the air. And the bubble is bursting badly now, and solely because of your "deregulated" beliefs.
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post #73 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Jack View Post

This is a HUGE buy opportunity for those wanting to get into AAPL.

Seriously, you will thank yourself in 3 months.

Don't be left saying 'I wish I had gotten in when AAPL was...', cos now is that time, they say buy low, well here is your chance.

Unless...it hasn't hit bottom yet.
post #74 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by brlawyer View Post

It's simply AMAZING how Republican defenders CAN spin the truth...you have had 8 DAMN years to lead a giant country, just to bring it to its knees...

Yes, it IS BUSH's fault for deciding to engage in an illegal war that bleeds billions of dollars per year.

Yes, it IS BUSH's fault to let the Fed flood your fragile market with worthless dollars, soon to become a big collection of green paper all over the world.

Yes, it IS BUSH's fault to let Wall Street play with financials as if they were a game of monopoly without a single drop of decent regulation.

And you STILL wanna vote for that old man and his whorish vice-president? Gimme a break, yankees! GO FIGURE!

Not all of us
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
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post #75 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booga View Post

I think you misunderstand the problem. The problem is lack of oversight on stupid interest-only loans and packaging them into "investment vehicles" that had a skewed risk analysis. Clinton was right, and his plan was sound. The problem was the subsequent "keep the government out of business" mentality removed almost all oversight and allowed the system to melt down.

As for the "6 years versus 8" I did say "most of the last 8 years". But if you want to be picky, the Republicans had control of Congress from 1994-2006, with 6 of those years also having control of the executive branch, and it's hard to fix everything overnight. Especially when you only have a 50/49 (plus Lieberman, if you count him) majority in the senate. You can't even call a vote on a bill with 51 votes in the senate.

With 6 years of Republicans dominating essentially all three branches of government, the current nation pretty much exactly reflects the outcome of a country run according to Republican ideals.

But you're giving all credit to Clinton for the work of Clinton combined with a Republican Congress. If Clinton's plan was sound and right (no idea how in the world you can argue that giving loans to people who are of higher risk to default can EVER be construed as sound or right but ok) then you need to give credit to BOTH the congress and the president. So, either both Clinton and Bush were stupid to encourage this OR the Republican Congress of 1994-2000 did a good job. I won't argue with either conclusion.

I've always been one to support a split Executive and Legislative branch. Almost nothing of usefullness happens when 1 party is in charge of all of it. If you don't like what the Republicans have been doing it's not because they are Republicans it's because Congress, the Senate and the president were all of the same party and they didn't even care about working across the aisle. Don't make the same mistake again...
post #76 of 146
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Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Not all of us

Hopefully you might be able to show the rest of the world that you are still a sane country based on sound principles, multilateral cooperation and conformity with international law...hopefully.
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iMac Intel 27" Core i7 3.4, 16GB RAM, 120GB SSD + 1TB HD + 4TB RAID 1+0, Nuforce Icon HDP, OS X 10.9.1; iPad Air 64GB; iPhone 5 32GB; iPod Classic; iPod Nano 4G; Apple TV 2.
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post #77 of 146
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Originally Posted by brlawyer View Post

Fact: a financial system without clear and firm regulations is like a balloon in the air. And the bubble is bursting badly now, and solely because of your "deregulated" beliefs.

Arguing that an analogy that you just made up is "Fact" is a pretty bad argument - just FYI...
post #78 of 146
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She cut her price target on the Mac maker's shares from $178 to $115.

And people want to bail these pricks out? Apple will produce a hefty profit this quarter and this fraud is allowing large chunks of stock to be consolidated with a few power brokers.

What a joke.
post #79 of 146
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Originally Posted by bigmc6000 View Post

Actually it was Clinton that started this mess - I know that makes all of this "it's Bush's fault" thing not quite as good but we should really be after facts - not political spin...

http://www.huduser.org/publications/txt/hdbrf2.txt

Also, the US would be better off if we stopped giving the rest of the world our money but nobody talks about that... The only reason we'd need help is because we've insisted on helping the rest of the world... But I suppose helping the country that's helped the most is out of the question huh?

What about when the banks got together and bought tons of the EURO because it had fallen to 80 cents per USD but they sat idly by and didn't give a crap as the USD fell to less than 70 cents per EURO...

No Reagan did start the mess. Reaganomics turned out to be a huge failure.
What Clinton did in the 90's was good for everybody and, most importantly, possible with the then healthy economy. Bush turned a great economy into a mess in just a few years, and instead of making good adjustments he worsened them... well for 99% of us, not for the 1% that became hugely rich because of it.


And that bit about the US giving huge amounts of money to the rest of the world and never getting anything back... The US never helped without gaining profit of it themselves, and there is nothing wrong with that, this includes the rebuilding of Europe after WWII, a huge investment from the US, but they earned it back a 100000 times too.
post #80 of 146
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Originally Posted by satchmo View Post

Unless...it hasn't hit bottom yet.

Even if it hasn't hit bottom yet, it's still a good time to buy for the longterm.
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