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Apple shares tumble on downgrades from investment banks - Page 3

post #81 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by studiomusic View Post

A couple of observations here... saying that you were 40% off on your target days before doesn't instill much confidence in me that you know what you are talking about. Follow the leader on the downgrades?

And, a lot of people know (or think they know) that new laptops are coming out soon, and that the imac and Mac Pro are due for a refresh/remake, thus the sudden moderation in intent to purchase.

I am buying more AAPL at these levels.
I think Apple will buck the trend as consumers want value for their money.


woahhh! you just made my spit coke all over my desk!!

Apple = VFM??

you REALLY think that?

they may make good products, nice and well designed products but nothing they do is VFM.

for the 'internet masses' you could easily put together a really nice rig running Ubu for under $400.
post #82 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by S10 View Post

No Reagan did start the mess. Reaganomics turned out to be a huge failure.
What Clinton did in the 90's was good for everybody and, most importantly, possible with the then healthy economy. Bush turned a great economy into a mess in just a few years, and instead of making good adjustments he worsened them... well for 99% of us, not for the 1% that became hugely rich because of it.


And that bit about the US giving huge amounts of money to the rest of the world and never getting anything back... The US never helped without gaining profit of it themselves, and there is nothing wrong with that, this includes the rebuilding of Europe after WWII, a huge investment from the US, but they earned it back a 100000 times too.

Wait - did you actually read the link or just comment on it? Clinton supporting the giving of loans to people who shouldn't have loans! The market was doing what it was supposed to do. It wasn't giving loans to people who shouldn't have them and then people wanted the market to go crazy and make everybody feel all happy so we started giving out all these loans to people who can't afford them. The "creative" financing Clinton supported was the beginning of the end for this. I'm sure people love to see home ownership going up and up but let's face it, not everybody makes enough money to own a house.

Encouraging companies to give loans to those who can't afford it is a bad idea, flat out. This all started because the fed got involved in private practices and then tried to stop being involved but didn't get rid of the freebies and now we have to go get involved again. Had the Clinton administration not started this policy I find it highly, highly unlikely that the Bush administration would have bothered to try to start it up because we were already in a recession as a correction to the tech bubble of the Clinton administration.

I doubt we got it back 100,000 times over, we may have got a fair chunk of it back but still, it's the premise. If the US is really that F-ed then we need to stop sending money ANYWHERE. Pull the troops, pull all the foreign aid funding, pull all of it. But alas it's really not that bad.

Also, while I'm at it, the purported figure of $10 billion/month is horribly inflated. Why? Do you think all those military members would be "laid off" if we didn't have them over there? Do you think we wouldn't be spending money on advancing our weapons systems? Of course we're spending more than we would otherwise but I have yet to find anyone to get the REAL numbers and report them. The people on side of the aisle say the biggest number and the people on the other side say the smallest. Realistically it's somewhere in between.

And, I don't have a link to it right now but Time ran an article that pointed the end of bi-partisan politics. It was the Monica Lewinsky fiasco... No Monica Lewinsky fiasco and Social Security would be fixed (Newt and Bill were working on that when the Lewinsky fiasco broke). So, thanks Monica - you didn't F Bill but you, unknowlingly, F-ed the rest of us, awesome...
post #83 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archipellago View Post

woahhh! you just made my spit coke all over my desk!!

Apple = VFM??

you REALLY think that?

they may make good products, nice and well designed products but nothing they do is VFM.

for the 'internet masses' you could easily put together a really nice rig running Ubu for under $400.

Well, in his defense. VFM does include ease of use and stability. Also, the operative word in your statement is *could*.

If everyone just made Ubuntu boxes for $400 then there would be no Apple, Dell, HP, Gateway or MS (at least not in their current capacity).
post #84 of 146
What we are seeing is simply the inevitable, eventual consequence of an economic system that is addicted to keeping itself solvent by perpetually borrowing money at rates that are perpetually lower than the rates at which they previously borrowed money. The housing market meltdown is merely the straw that broke the camels back.

Congress just finished voting on the bailout plan, and the Republican members of congress voted it down. There comes a time when it is best to just take your medicine. Banks that have been poorly managed need to be allowed to fail and be acquired by banks that have been managed better. The downturn in the housing market needs to be allowed to run its course. We are probably looking at a recession that will last for a couple of years, but the overall economy will recover, and when it does, it will be far stronger than it has ever been, at any other time in history.

Companies will need cash to carry them through the next 2-3 years, and Apple presently has plenty of cash to do that. I will continue to own the shares of Apple stock that I presently own. I am presently in my mid-fifties, and I fully expect that if I live a normal live expectancy, that I will live to see the Apple stock that I presently own increase in value by at least a factor of ten, if not a hundred. The present dip in the value of Apple stock is merely a small bump in the road.

Apple is opening retail outlets around the world at a remarkable pace, which is an excellent way to spend that excess cash and enhance their future profitability. The iPhone was conceived and implemented as a global product, and it is the first time there has really been a serious, un-compromised effort to evolve the mobile telephone into a highly mobile platform for general computing applications. Anyone who does not realize that this is the manifest evolution of the mobile telephone, and that it is perfectly timed and perfectly executed by Apple, simply lacks vision. There has never, ever been a consumer product that has been so carefully thought through as this. Apple has made mistakes in the past, and they have learned from them. They have thought this product through from every conceivable angle, to include their ability control which applications will be able to run on their proprietary platform. There is the very real potential for this proprietary run-time platform to develop into a de facto standard for devices of this sort, and if this plays out, Apple will be in a very envious and lucrative position. Other companies that make gadgets and that want a piece of that action will have to play on Apples terms, to include Apples terms with respect to the App store being the only source for applications that will be allowed to run on that proprietary platform. That could eventually lead to a situation where courts would intervene, but that sort of intervention would only occur long after Apple has been forced to buy up a bunch of failing banks for lack of anything better to do with all the money theyve accumulated over the years.
post #85 of 146
Let's take a look at the current (29.09.08) Apple Mac landscape:

Products that are SO long overdue an update that, quite frankly, it's embarrassing:
Mac Mini
MacBook
MacBook Pro
Cinema Display

Products that could do with an update soon:
iMac
Mac Pro

Products that are (fairly) up to date:
MacBook Air

Products that are bang up to date:
?

We're in the middle of a full-on recession and it's no surprise that the analysts think that nobody is going to buy Apple's current products in any volume.

But hey, we've got multi-coloured iPods and an iPhone that should have been 3G a year ago.
OK, can I have my matte Apple display, now?
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OK, can I have my matte Apple display, now?
Reply
post #86 of 146
Apple is one of the most innovative American companies. IBM is no slouch either, with thousands of patents and discoveries over the years. I wouldn't bet against either, long term.

Likewise, those that are jumping on the bandwagon and spewing nonsense against the U.S., I wouldn't bet against America.

We've done quite well over the decades with no system of govt. equalling ours in terms of innovation, entrepreneurialism, freedoms, and results.

In fact, without our intervention from time to time, many countries would have suffered greatly or even faded away into history.

We've had a housing bubble pop. It's going to be painful and take time to recover. But we will recover. I guess we have to take the cheap shots while we're down... the price of our long term, world beating successes.

AAPL is probably going to go lower before it recovers, due to external factors beyond their control. I'd wait a little bit and then buy in. This is my humble opinion.
post #87 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmc6000 View Post

Well, in his defense. VFM does include ease of use and stability. Also, the operative word in your statement is *could*.

If everyone just made Ubuntu boxes for $400 then there would be no Apple, Dell, HP, Gateway or MS (at least not in their current capacity).



true, I was thinking in the current spectacular financial climate though.

Apple ARE cheap products but only to make. Good marketing savvy a flase air of increased usibility and quality lets them sell at ridiculous prices.

Mr Jobs is a clever man no doubt. But if no one has any cash then.....
post #88 of 146
And for those interested - oil dropped over 10.5% today!

See - not everything is bad!!

http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/com...rgyprices.html

Edit: It wasn't just the Republicans who voted it down. 2/3 of Republicans voted against it and 40% of Democrats voted against it.
post #89 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archipellago View Post

true, I was thinking in the current spectacular financial climate though.

Apple ARE cheap products but only to make. Good marketing savvy a false air of increased usability and quality lets them sell at ridiculous prices.

Mr Jobs is a clever man no doubt. But if no one has any cash then.....

But that goes back to my previous point. Has your actual cash flow changed? Mine hasn't - not one cent. In fact, with the market going in the crapper oil went down like mad so I'll actually have more money since I won't have to pay as much for gas. Did my 401k go down? Of course but I'm 26 so I really don't care if it goes down today - I'm all about long term and at no point in our history has the market been lower 40 years later. If anything this is just a great time to buy and capitalize on the dividends to give you more shares!

Glass is half-full for me and has been well known for ages "your perception determines your reality." If we weren't all so plugged into caring about the market it wouldn't be doing nearly as bad (or as well) as it has in the past few years...
post #90 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by satchmo View Post

Unless...it hasn't hit bottom yet.

Tomorrow is the last day of the quarter. Hedge funds like to close out winning positions so they can report quarterly profits. If they've been short AAPL, as many have, there should be a ten-point one-day bounce up from their covering. (Unless the market tanks.)
post #91 of 146
It is just disgusting that these analysts single out Apple for a downgrade during such an uncertain time in the American economy.

These vultures know that any attempt to manipulate a stock price down would be amplified and they will be able to steal Apple stock at an artificially cheap price. If these bastards had decided to downgrade Ford or GM today, those companies could be bankrupted immediately.

People's plans to buy cars are much more adversely affected by the prevailing financial climate than their plans to by computers or iPods or iPhones. This seems like a conspiracy to screw Apple and I hope that an SEC with some balls might want to throw these crooks in jail.
post #92 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Apples going to eat up market share like Bank of America is eating up banks!
Nasdaq is currently valued at 100:1 and the Dow at 10:1 per share to actual value.All these companies are over valued fundamentaly.Apple is going to make strong progress.

Agreed.
post #93 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonard View Post

Even if it hasn't hit bottom yet, it's still a good time to buy for the longterm.

I'm in so we shall see.
"Run faster. History is a constant race between invention and catastrophe. Education helps but it is never enough. You must also run." Leto Atreides II
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"Run faster. History is a constant race between invention and catastrophe. Education helps but it is never enough. You must also run." Leto Atreides II
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post #94 of 146
First: given recent events why does anyone listen to a banker? They've made it abundantly clear they have no idea how to manage our money so why is anyone still listening to them?

Second: investment bankers do have one ace in the hole. They can play both sides of the manipulation game and profit on every move.

Buy a stock
Say positive things to help it rise
Sell the stock
Say negative things to spook the market
Buy it back
Repeat ad nauseam

Morgan Stanley and RBC are laughing again.
post #95 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Messiah View Post

Let's take a look at the current (29.09.08) Apple Mac landscape:

Products that are SO long overdue an update that, quite frankly, it's embarrassing:
Mac Mini
MacBook
MacBook Pro
Cinema Display

Products that could do with an update soon:
iMac
Mac Pro

Products that are (fairly) up to date:
MacBook Air

Products that are bang up to date:
?

We're in the middle of a full-on recession and it's no surprise that the analysts think that nobody is going to buy Apple's current products in any volume.

But hey, we've got multi-coloured iPods and an iPhone that should have been 3G a year ago.

So what should Apple do wise one, I guess updating all their products will just make everything all better right.
post #96 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

I think she is referring to the sub $100 portable market, not desktops. It will seem silly however, if, as many pundits think, Apple has an answer to this market segment in the next event on October 14th or so.

Quite the gamble really. If a person buys stock today at a seriously under-valued $100 or so price, and then *if* Apple comes out with the new mystery device that conquers that market segment in early October, then it's huge profit for anyone who took the risk.

If on the other hand the announcement is just about laptop refreshes that are slightly cheaper, then the stock will dive even further and it's a big loss (at least short term). Interesting days indeed.

Mr. Jobs has a gigantic blind spot when it comes to low priced computers, and Apple in general doesn't usually care what the rest of the market is doing or try to respond to market trends like the sub $100 net books, they just make what they make, knowing that if it's good it will sell. So it's entirely possible that Apple *doesn't* have a sub-100 answer in the works.

Actually she said sub-$1000 PCs not notebooks. I checked this on many websites.

I agree with you about the risk but I believe in the long run aapl will gain most of the losses it suffered this year.

Look at how many people here are so happy to see Apple stock goes down! They forget that people buy Mac, iPhone, and iPods because they are great products not because Apple shares are high. Apple will keep rolling out great products regardless of the stock price.
post #97 of 146
Macdailynews quotes an article out today in Esquire that strongly insinuates that Jobs is ill. That means that the most likely reason for most of the recent price decline is that this speculation was passed around Wall Street in whispers for the past month. (It's likely that early word of the article leaked out.) It also means that, if Jobs announces his retirement, there won't be much downside left in AAPL, because the shorts have already "sold on the rumor" so heavily. Thus, then will be the time to "buy on the news." Or earlier.
post #98 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hattig View Post

Hmm, so Apple has $22b in the bank, and the share price is dropping to a very low point. If Apple believe in their future products and profitability, could we expect to see them buy up a lot of their own shares, especially if they tumble below $100? Then they can sell them in the future when they are $200+ again, and raise a metric buttload of cash.

Or they can sell their products for a much cheaper price and take the hit on their profits! $399 Mac Mini por favor!

I agree, this would be a perfect opportunity for Apple to buy back their own stock.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #99 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Knights View Post

Macdailynews quotes an article out today in Esquire that strongly insinuates that Jobs is ill. If true, that means that the most likely reason for most of the recent price decline is that this speculation was passed around Wall Street in whispers for the past month. (It's likely that early word of the article leaked out.) It also means that, if Jobs announces his retirement, there won't be much downside left in AAPL, because the shorts have already "sold on the rumor" so heavily. Thus, then will be time to "buy on the news." Or earlier.

When you quoted the Esquire story, you forgot to link it.

Guess what Steve's multi-touch gravestone will say....

"One more thing..."

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #100 of 146
These downgrades were a conspiricy to allow the Hedgefunds to exit short positions, make a ton of money on Puts, and buy back in. The hedgefunds needed to get out before they were forced to make their short positions public. Note these analysts reached exactly the same estimate for 2009 earnings - $5.47. How often does that happen? They also know Apple will announce a Macbook in the under $1000 market in October. These people timed it perfectly. Quarter ends tomorrow. I hope the SEC has a look at this. I don't think they were counting on the failure by congress to approve the bail out bill. They did create the initial downward momentum to the largest drop in the Nasdaq since the Dot Com bubble burst. MS and RBC - shame on you!
post #101 of 146
I get the feeling a lot of folks here had money in AAPL and.... nothing else?

3 years ago, AAPL was worth about 50 bucks a share - did anyone here really think Apple shares were realistically going to stay in the $180-200 range? I'm no expert, but I really thought that was pretty unbelievable.

Everyone here seems to think that the stock is undervalued, but I'm not so sure, and wouldn't be surprised to see it get down to the $75 range until either Apple releases some products that are more feasible to folks with drastically reduced petty cash (if lots of people lose out on their retirement/education savings, that'll really hit vanity electronics), or the economy turns around/gets sorted out.

I'd say the devaluation of the stock also has a little bit to do with the court case going on in Norway (supported by Sweden, Denmark, Germany, Holland, etc.) which could require iTunes/iTunes media to be compatible with non-iPod media players.

With the economy as bad as it is, and only going to get worse, Apple could be in rough shape, especially if it's bread and butter iPods start to slip in their market share...

Anyways, I hope none of you bought in over the past 5 months! If so, you'll probably have lost half your money by the end of the week, and it'll be a tough decision to wait and see if the stock can double in a reasonable time period to make it worth tying up your cash!

And to everyone who thinks this is a conspiracy : if you also think there's an ounce of truth to the X-Files, or that the 9/11 planes were actually missiles launched by the CIA, maybe it's time you cut back on your internets.
post #102 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomaspin View Post

On August 4 in the Comments to this blog I referenced the coming global depression and its disastrous impact on AAPL's stock price. On that day AAPL closed at $153.23 and, of course, I was roundly trashed by many who seemed to misinterpret my comments as being in some way anti-Apple. As I write the stock is at $110.

Given that I use Apple products for all my computing needs that's not quite right, but no matter.

Let me reiterate what I wrote then. In a depression, no one needs a new computer. Worse, no one needs an expensive computer and, yes, for all the studies that prove that Macs are, feature-for-feature, cheaper than their Windows competition, a buyer in a tough economy tends to focus on price. When you can get a new Dell for what - $400? - even a $599 Mini with no screen looks costly by comparison, and hang the features.

Apple may well introduce a more inexpensive line for the holidays. With rising component prices and falling margins this will be a further negative for the stock and as PE ratios fall across the world and bankruptcies rise, the stock is simply either very high risk or a very long term hold. For the risk averse, cash remains king.

Disclosure: No AAPL position. 100% of position sold for $180 in July.

By the way, banning short sales in AAPL will simply accelerate the drop in the stock price as hedge funds sell their positions to fund accelerating withdrawals. Usual unintended consequence of populist politics.

On the bright side- at least you've learned that any criticism of anything related to Apple (policy, products, strategy, etc) on here equates to Apple bashing by the Kool-Aid Coalition.
post #103 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Messiah View Post

Let's take a look at the current (29.09.08) Apple Mac landscape:

Products that are SO long overdue an update that, quite frankly, it's embarrassing:
Mac Mini
MacBook
MacBook Pro
Cinema Display

Products that could do with an update soon:
iMac
Mac Pro

Products that are (fairly) up to date:
MacBook Air

Products that are bang up to date:
?

We're in the middle of a full-on recession and it's no surprise that the analysts think that nobody is going to buy Apple's current products in any volume.

But hey, we've got multi-coloured iPods and an iPhone that should have been 3G a year ago.

You fail to mention the most important factor in all these products- $$PRICE$$.
The iPod price restructuring was a joke. Innovation is great but not if its unaffordable.
post #104 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by razorpit View Post

Sorry Frankie, you have the wrong party to blame. Democrats are the party of the "little guy" remember? At least that's what they've been telling us for years anyway. And you do realize Al Gore is on the board of directors at Apple right?

Gore? The one who is most responsible for losing a walk-thru election by not mentioning once Clinton economic successes- EVER? He deserves a lot of this blame.
post #105 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Knights View Post

... It also means that, if Jobs announces his retirement, there won't be much downside left in AAPL, because the shorts have already "sold on the rumor" so heavily. Thus, then will be time to "buy on the news." Or earlier.

I don't know about that. IMO, people are kidding themselves if they think Apple can't go lower.

With the ban on short selling of financials it sure looks to me like the hedge funds are shorting all the tech high fliers. Look what happened to GOOG and RIM.

And I agree with the analysts. Apple have a terrible product mix for a recession.
post #106 of 146
as long as the economy doesn't go to great depression levels i'll be more than fine.
i'll buy more stock at $80 [twice what i paid for it last time]

my fear is that at some point the ipod will be the walkman, as in "remember when everyone had a walkman?" just be sure to sell off before that happens.

VFM also includes resale value, fwiw, and apple ranks extremely high in the tech industry.
post #107 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmc6000 View Post

Actually it was Clinton that started this mess - I know that makes all of this "it's Bush's fault" thing not quite as good but we should really be after facts - not political spin...

http://www.huduser.org/publications/txt/hdbrf2.txt

Also, the US would be better off if we stopped giving the rest of the world our money but nobody talks about that... The only reason we'd need help is because we've insisted on helping the rest of the world... But I suppose helping the country that's helped the most is out of the question huh?

What about when the banks got together and bought tons of the EURO because it had fallen to 80 cents per USD but they sat idly by and didn't give a crap as the USD fell to less than 70 cents per EURO...

If only Americans could spell, they could work on "Delusional".

The USA has NOT been giving the rest of the world "our" money. It has been borrowing massively to blow it all on extraordinary waste, ludicrous mountains of consumer products and wars of adventures against countries it has trouble spelling let alone finding on the map.

If the statement was to suggest the USA is a massive Aid donor, it is not that either. In fact it is the most miserly of donors of all developed nations and what it gives is usually military aid or agricultural aid designed to maximise the benefit to US farmers and maximise the harm to the economy of the recipient countries.

With the USA heading to bankruptcy it maybe time to go on a debt diet, starting with reviewing some of those purchases you really couldn't afford. Unfortunately there won't be a market for used plasma TVs, houses made out of ticky-tacky and gas guzzling SUVs, so you may have to see what you can get for the Louisiana Purchase, New Mexico, California and Alaska.

You probably won't get enough to pay off your debts, so some of your children will just have to be put into sweatshops making sneakers and brand name T-Shirts. A task for which they will be useless until they lose some weight and attitude. The rest of you will have to sell yourselves to the sex trade. Moldavia and the Ukraine already have some of the infrastructure and management in place to help you there.

If you are looking for any sympathy or good will, remember "You're either with us or ag'in us!"
post #108 of 146
Ugh, staying away from the politics. Also, blaming politicians for playing the blame game is circular if you ask me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

Funny how she mentioned sub-$1,000 just as rumors about a possible new notebook refresh and possible desktop with price cuts. which will bring the MacBook basic configuration below $1,000. Beside, Apple already have sub-$1,000 computer called Mac Mini but I guess cheap computers should also be ugly and noisy to qualify as cheap.

Apple's desktops tend to get ignored, relatively speaking anyway. A cheaper notebook would make a bigger splash. Notebooks are about 60-65% of Apple's computer business by units.

Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

LOL. Looks like I was right.

Don't claim a win until it actually hits your specific predictions. Your original predictions were for "around $90", others said "between $85 and $95". Only later were you fudging the numbers upwards to make your predictions fit the data and say that's what you predicted all along. You even called $118 "pretty close" even though it doesn't fall within that range, nevermind get close. Even $105 isn't close enough to $95 especially given you were specific enough to give a range.
post #109 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by gastroboy View Post

If only Americans could spell, they could work on "Delusional".

The USA has NOT been giving the rest of the world


We understand jealousy and envy. You don't have to love us. It's fine that you love our economy and our world-class computer companies. You may have heard of one called Apple?

We also can't help that the world seeks a flight to quality with our treasuries. I mean, we put them out there and Japan and China just can't get enough! It is a free market and countries are free to purchase as they please.

With a 14 trillion dollar economy that's the most innovative in the world and a stable political system, who can blame them! Why do you think Apple is based here? We are the land of iPods.
post #110 of 146
Does anyone else find it interesting the a company as fundamentally sound as Apple can get its balls kicked so badly by an industry (investment banking) so fundamentally unsound that it is in the middle of a hairball that threatens to bring the whole country to its knees. Why does anybody listen to any of these guys any more?
post #111 of 146
I just hope that Ma and Pa investors got out of Apple's stock in time to avoid what's coming. When hedge funds sell the remainder of their Apple stocks, it won't be pretty...

Apple computers are overpriced by $300 to $500.

Steve Jobs lined his pockets with a $1 billion back dated stock option bonus and spread another $1 billion among his puppet Vice-Presidents. That's why everything Apple is so expensive.

Going forward, either the company will compete and lower its prices, or it will die a slow death, being limited to a 5% market share of Mac faithfuls.

\\\
post #112 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by bugsnw View Post

We understand jealousy and envy. You don't have to love us. It's fine that you love our economy and our world-class computer companies. You may have heard of one called Apple?

We also can't help that the world seeks a flight to quality with our treasuries. I mean, we put them out there and Japan and China just can't get enough! It is a free market and countries are free to purchase as they please.

With a 14 trillion dollar economy that's the most innovative in the world and a stable political system, who can blame them! Why do you think Apple is based here? We are the land of iPods.

Mumble, mumble mumble.

I don't think you know how far into debt you are.

You are like the fat pudgy middle aged guy looking into the mirror and seeing a bronzed young athlete.

btw The hand-on-heart-flag thing doesn't work outside the USA, we weren't fed the bowl of dog food when the bell rang as youngsters.
post #113 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by ouragan View Post

I just hope that Ma and Pa investors got out of Apple's stock in time to avoid what's coming. When hedge funds sell the remainder of their Apple stocks, it won't be pretty...

Apple computers are overpriced by $300 to $500.

Steve Jobs lined his pockets with a $1 billion back dated stock option bonus and spread another $1 billion among his puppet Vice-Presidents. That's why everything Apple is so expensive.

Going forward, either the company will compete and lower its prices, or it will die a slow death, being limited to a 5% market share of Mac faithfuls.

\\\

Here comes the useless trool know it all and his obsession with Steve Jobs.
post #114 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adjei View Post

Here comes the useless trool know it all and his obsession with Steve Jobs.

I don't agree with his assessment that Apple is on its knees but he has hit on 2 sore points.

Steve Jobs is virtually synonymous with the modern successful Apple and will leave it headless when he goes, and he and the board of directors have bled away a massive part of the profits, just as the CEOs and execs of the major finance institutions have done.

Both can make Apple vulnerable if the tide and economy turn against the luxury end of the market.
post #115 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmc6000 View Post

Wait - did you actually read the link or just comment on it? Clinton supporting the giving of loans to people who shouldn't have loans! The market was doing what it was supposed to do. It wasn't giving loans to people who shouldn't have them and then people wanted the market to go crazy and make everybody feel all happy so we started giving out all these loans to people who can't afford them. The "creative" financing Clinton supported was the beginning of the end for this. I'm sure people love to see home ownership going up and up but let's face it, not everybody makes enough money to own a house.

The article I linked to told how we got started on this slippery slope, but the damage during the first eight (say) years was relatively minor. It could even be argued that the price to Fannie & Freddie from absorbing the losses on bad loans was outweighed by the social benefits of more widespread home ownership. The real danger emerged when lending standards were loosened further, especially in conjunction with a rise of house prices way above their historic relationship to income levels, making the possibility of a catastrophic (to lenders) price decline more likely. (And furthermore when the Fed kept the interest rate so low that there was lots of credit available.) This loosening of creditworthiness was mainly the fault of the current administration, because it happened on its watch.

And it may have done more than silently acquiesce in the practice. About three (?) months ago I read a newspaper story claiming that an official at Fannie said that HUD had, in recent years, twisted Fannie's arm to make it accept low-quality loans. HUD denied it (natch). Another mark against the current administration, or anyway against Greenspan, was his opposition to reining in the use of derivatives. These, combined with low-quality loans and overpriced houses, created a towering house of cards that threatens to crush us if it falls.

OTOH, the administration might have acted more responsibly if it hadn't feared that it would be pilloried by the opposition for acting like a party pooper, Scrooge, or worse.
post #116 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by gastroboy View Post

You are like the fat pudgy middle aged guy looking into the mirror and seeing a bronzed young athlete.

LMAOROF
I gotta use this sometime...oh my!
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post #117 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomaspin View Post

In a depression, no one needs a new computer. Worse, no one needs an expensive computer and, yes, for all the studies that prove that Macs are, feature-for-feature, cheaper than their Windows competition, a buyer in a tough economy tends to focus on price. When you can get a new Dell for what - $400? - even a $599 Mini with no screen looks costly by comparison, and hang the features.

You don't seem to understand that hardware features are not the issue when you buy a Mac. It is the software that counts, it makes you productive, you can make a better impression, and possibly start a creative career. This is the perception of buying a Mac. The quality of the software and years of (word of mouth) advertising made it so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomaspin View Post

Apple may well introduce a more inexpensive line for the holidays. With rising component prices and falling margins this will be a further negative for the stock and as PE ratios fall across the world and bankruptcies rise, the stock is simply either very high risk or a very long term hold. For the risk averse, cash remains king.

Yep, and the world will come to an end tomorrow.
post #118 of 146
LOL

I remember saying at the beginning of the summer Apple was going to hit $99.00 in a matter of months. I don't post much. You can click my name and find the post very easily.

I'd like to say I told you so to all the people who insulted me and are losing their shirts.

"Told you so" feels good once and a while.

I'm still saying it will tank even lower.

The crash crash hasn't come yet. For APPL there is a psychological resistance at around $100. All stocks usually have a psychological resistance on nice round numbers. Especially $100.

If it drops below say $93.00 watch for the sky to fall.
post #119 of 146
How may this crisis affect Apples release schedule?
Will they delay the introduction of their new laptops - trying to avoid releasing high end products while "the market" is screaming for cheapish low end netbooks?
Thoughts?
post #120 of 146
With ALL companies share prices tumbling and "economic chaos" rampant around the world, Apple is poised with lots of cash. I expect to see lots of quiet announcements of high-quality software and hardware firms being purchased on the cheap by Apple, giving them even greater leverage to compete more efficiently. My guess is we'll most likely see acquisitions in the pro apps, and chip designers (maybe video boards, too), and system utilities that can be evolved into part of the OS offering.

As for the economics and politics "debate" -- my two cents.
  • Stupid people made bad loans.
  • REALLY stupid people used their homes for cash to buy non-durable goods.
  • Greedy bankers invested in the stupid loans.
  • Stupid and greedy politicians (uhh, that means ALL of them, in every country) can't legislate intelligence they don't already possess.
  • The current war in the Middle East was started by Saddam Hussein when he invaded Kuwait. It is now perpetuated by fundamentalist religious zealots seeking to grab regional power and money, and who are fighting the coalition forces who are there to contain them to an area that will limit the chances of physical harm to their own populations.
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