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Nokia, Apple iPhone to lock horns at last on Thursday - Page 3

post #81 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

You're comparing apples and oranges here. The $950 you quote is the unlocked, SIM free price. AT&T subsidize the price of the iPhone and hence why it only costs $200. You can't compare unsubsidized and subsidized prices.

Didn't stop everyone bitching about it when the iPhone was the more expensive unsubsidised price compared to subsidised Nokia phones (particularly the N95), did it?
post #82 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by THT View Post

The more pressure Apple feels, the faster they'll try to move, and with phones like the Tube, the Touch HD, Blackberry Storm, Samsung/LG dujour, I think they are going to feel it. Apple needs to evolve the iPhone and iPhone ecosystem at a faster than breakneck speed.

They need:

1. Multiple models (nano with 3" screen, mid with 3.7" screen, pro with 4" screen),
2. Larger screens (3.7 to 4 inch screens) on the "normal" mid-range
3. More touchscreen surface (expand it to the entire screen surface),
4. Higher resolutions for mid/pro version (720x480 for 3.5+ inch, 480x320 for 3" version)
5. More storage (32 GB Flash, 120 to 240 GB hard disk version),
6. Faster CPU/GPU
7. More memory (256/512 MB)
8. Longer battery life
9. More sensors
10. Better audio (speaker volume, microphone)
11. Better browsing/email/texting features
12. More video (get Hulu, Veoh, Vimeo to deliver H.264 M4V videos or support Flash video)
13. Continue music dominance
14. Allow access to iPod/iPhone port with a port API
15. Create an Input Device API
16. Make a deal for legal DVD ripping/transcoding to the iPhone/iPod

Well items 1-7 and 9 go completely against point 8 as they all need more power.
1,2 and 3 are basically the same point made with different words.
10. Maybe a little bit louder would be nice.
11. They are fine as they are.
12. That's upto the sites in question. They can all do it now if they just add the markup on their sites.
13. Don't see that going down any time soon.
14. I take it you mean Dock connecter?
15. The "Input Device API" is called "Cocoa Touch", as the Input Device is already there (I don't see any other devices offering this). Do you mean a keyboard that could plug into the Dock Connector (i.e. part of 14).
16. There are quite a few DVDs that now include a pre-encoded version for the iPhone/iPod, well spotted. It just needs to be extended to more DVDs. Ripping of a DVD will NEVER be legal due to various new copyright laws.
post #83 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrochester View Post

Haha seriously, anyone who uses this argument actually just makes themselves sound like an idiot. Are you really that stupid that you can't work out that 'Messaging' is for messaging, 'Web' is for the web, and 'Camera' is for the camera? Perhaps 'Music player' starts the music player?! I mean come on, are you for real?! If you seriously can't work out how to do any of those things on an N95, I suggest you need special treatment somewhere.

Right so because your device is a confusing brick, you have the need to insult me, typical, I won't stoop to your level.
post #84 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by genericposts View Post

Your post is absolutely correct. I have read this thread over the last few days and have concluded that Adjei is a constant complainer, or in way over his or her head and in need of some sort of help. How hard is it to look in a manual? Nokia phones are fairly intuitive and require very little (maybe not in this case) user manual look up. The icons are clearly labled and when pressed do exactly what they say they will do. I find this as well with SE phones, LG phones, even Motorola phones. Adjei is just looking for an issue to complain about and failing very miserably in the process. I will not even touch on the rediculousness of the memory card arguement put forth.

Let me get this, so I have to read a bloody manual to figure out how to use the phone.
post #85 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by genericposts View Post

In addition to the arguments put forth in this thread, several people are of the conclusion that everyone wants an iPhone when this is truly not the case. There are many, many people to whom the iPhone simply does not appeal, no matter how "wonderful" the UI is. Case in point, I work in the European office of a large US company but after looking at the iPhone, and its lack of business features (tethering, VoIP via GSM, OBEX file transfer, cut and paste, and other biz features) our IT department made the recommendation to wait and see what Nokia will have to offer because all the current E-series phones, as well as the N-series phones have these basic biz features and applications. As we run an Exchange based mail service, we can plug in with almost any Nokia, or SE phone. The same with our Blackberry users. From a biz prospective, the iPhone is not biz oriented no matter how much Apple likes to say it, or reporters spew the Apple marketing material. With this lack of foresight, and almost one sided view of the world that Apple exhibits. Just because you sell phones in several different countries does not mean that you understand these markets, and in our case cost Apple thousands of iPhones sales.

In the coming months, Nokia will release several levels of touch screen phones, all aimed at specific markets and they will succeed because the very same people that are not purchasing the iPhone will now have a viable alternative.

So how is life at Nokia's headquarters, figuring the need to sign up to defend your company, shameless.
post #86 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by tawilson View Post

Didn't stop everyone bitching about it when the iPhone was the more expensive unsubsidised price compared to subsidised Nokia phones (particularly the N95), did it?

Well said, some people.
post #87 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by tawilson View Post

Didn't stop everyone bitching about it when the iPhone was the more expensive unsubsidised price compared to subsidised Nokia phones (particularly the N95), did it?

Except when you got home with your 'unsubsidized' iphone, the only legal route was to sign up to a contract.
post #88 of 99
Replaceable/upgradeable memory + user replaceable battery goes totally against Apple's 2-year disposable model with iPod and iPhone.

I mean, i bet the top 2 reasons people buy new iPods and iPhones are to get bigger capacity or because the battery life gets terrible and paying apple to replace it isn't worth the hassle/cost of buying a new one.

Anyways, I think maybe the best reason to buy basically any phone other than the iPhone is that EVERY OTHER PHONE the costs more than 50 bucks on the market today has easy-to switch microSD or similar memory, and an easily/cheaply replaceable battery.

My $100 Nokia that I bought a year ago with 512 MB (included) MicroSD became an 8GB phone a couple weeks ago for $60 and next year it'll probably become a 32GB phone for another $60. It's not a difficult to include user replaceable batteries/memory in a phone (about 50 companies do it on almost 100% of their models nowadays.), and the only reason Apple doesn't include it is that they want people to buy a new phone every 2 years, following the iPod model. There's other reason not to have user replaceable batteries and memory.
post #89 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by tawilson View Post

Except, as with >4GB cards, these required HARDWARE changes, and this will probably be the case for these massive cards.

Devices made before the SDHC format (also known as SD 2.0) replaced SD 1.0 don't officially support SDHC, although most SDHC cards do indeed work fine on older, SD capable devices. (since companies didn't test the old products with modern cards, they can't officially support them as it would make them liable in warranty claims)

The SDHC format has a maximum theoretical capacity of 2TB, so any product you buy today that supports SDHC will work with 2TB cards when they become available in 2012 or so...
post #90 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by tawilson View Post

Well items 1-7 and 9 go completely against point 8 as they all need more power.

Nope. CMOS devices get more power efficient with each new node, especially if power efficiency is a design goal (hello PA Semiconductor). I fully expect the next-gen iPhone to have twice as many transistors as the iPhone 3G.

Also, energy density increases, albeit maddeningly slowly, every year for batteries. For this, Apple has a packaging exercise to do to include a larger battery. For instance, the iPhone 3G (1100 mA-hr) actually has a smaller battery than the 1st Gen iPhone (1400 mA-hr). So it has been done before, but will likely come at the cost of less round device, though.

Quote:
1,2 and 3 are basically the same point made with different words.

It can be condensed to one long point yet, but 1 is about expanding the iPhone to 3 model lines, and by suggesting 3", 3.7" and 4.5" screen sizes, I'm implying 3 different phone sizes: a cell phone size (2" width), a smartphone size (2.5" width), and a PDA size (3" width). So the 3" screen is a Tube, Touch Pro, Samsung/LG, dujour competitor. The 3.7" is a Touch HD and Blackberry Storm competitor, and the 4.5" is simply an expensive halo device.

Point number 2 is a comment about the exist iPhone 3G. There's a bit of bezel around the screen, which to me means wasted area and the screen should be made bigger. It looks like a screen of 3.7" or 3.8" could be fit in there. If so, the iPhone will be an even more competitive product.

Point number 3 is increasing the touch surface area to including the areas outside of the screen around the Home button and the ear piece slot. These touch surfaces could be used as 4 virtual buttons for games or something like that.

Quote:
10. Maybe a little bit louder would be nice.

Well, be more ambitious! Add a second speaker and a second microphone for better gaming and audio conference experiences.

Quote:
11. They are fine as they are.

More features is always a plus. If you spend some time thinking about it, you can think of a million. For Safari, better text input UI, better webapp performance, better formatting. For mail, better UI, more searching, filtering.

Quote:
12. That's up to the sites in question. They can all do it now if they just add the markup on their sites.

If Apple doesn't support flash video, Apple should do what they did with Google, make a deal. They made a deal with Google to convert video to H.264. They should start doing that with the other flash video sites such as Hulu, Veo, Vimeo. It circumvents iTunes, but Apple needs to move faster here. Either that or have OTA iTunes video store app, and make more deals to get free stuff on iTunes. (Free is the key, which may mean ad-supported too.)

Quote:
14. I take it you mean Dock connecter?

Yup, the iPod/iPhone connector.

Quote:
15. The "Input Device API" is called "Cocoa Touch", as the Input Device is already there (I don't see any other devices offering this). Do you mean a keyboard that could plug into the Dock Connector (i.e. part of 14).

There's currently no access to Bluetooth or the Dock connector. Both could be used to support accessories (keyboards, controllers, etc.)

Quote:
16. There are quite a few DVDs that now include a pre-encoded version for the iPhone/iPod, well spotted. It just needs to be extended to more DVDs. Ripping of a DVD will NEVER be legal due to various new copyright laws.

Well, Real is taking an interesting tact. They licensed the DVD encoder/decoder like companies need for DVD players. Well, Apple can do like Real and do the same. A user can rip DVDs from their existing collections, side-load it to the iPhone/iPod touch and play. The only legal issue is EULA in regards to letting users put DVD content onto a computer.
post #91 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superbass View Post

Replaceable/upgradeable memory + user replaceable battery goes totally against Apple's 2-year disposable model with iPod and iPhone.

I mean, i bet the top 2 reasons people buy new iPods and iPhones are to get bigger capacity or because the battery life gets terrible and paying apple to replace it isn't worth the hassle/cost of buying a new one.

Anyways, I think maybe the best reason to buy basically any phone other than the iPhone is that EVERY OTHER PHONE the costs more than 50 bucks on the market today has easy-to switch microSD or similar memory, and an easily/cheaply replaceable battery.

My $100 Nokia that I bought a year ago with 512 MB (included) MicroSD became an 8GB phone a couple weeks ago for $60 and next year it'll probably become a 32GB phone for another $60. It's not a difficult to include user replaceable batteries/memory in a phone (about 50 companies do it on almost 100% of their models nowadays.), and the only reason Apple doesn't include it is that they want people to buy a new phone every 2 years, following the iPod model. There's other reason not to have user replaceable batteries and memory.

Right so I guess you'll be keeping the Nokia for the rest of your life, you'll never feel the need to upgrade to anything else because you can just keeping on replacig the SD cards and batteries. I mean Apple is the only compnay that upgrade their products, in fact they even put a gun to your head forcing you to upgrade.
post #92 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adjei View Post

Let me get this, so I have to read a bloody manual to figure out how to use the phone.

There might be pictures. Sorry to imply that you could read. Maybe you can have someone read it for you.
post #93 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adjei View Post

So how is life at Nokia's headquarters, figuring the need to sign up to defend your company, shameless.

This is the best you can do? Is this the only thing that you can gleen from my post? Talk about shameless or ineptitude. Next time try learning something when you go to school, or sorry, it you actually went to school. Your cirucular arguments are proof positive of a failed school system because for all the time you may have spent there, comprehension is not something you picked up. Ignorant comes to mind.
post #94 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by genericposts View Post

This is the best you can do? Is this the only thing that you can gleen from my post? Talk about shameless or ineptitude. Next time try learning something when you go to school, or sorry, it you actually went to school. Your cirucular arguments are proof positive of a failed school system because for all the time you may have spent there, comprehension is not something you picked up. Ignorant comes to mind.

I don't have time to go insulting you on the internet as you seem to do and go and judge your education level. I don't blame you, we're on the internet where anything can be said, I bet you couldn't say half of that crap in my face, nonsense.
post #95 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by genericposts View Post

There might be pictures. Sorry to imply that you could read. Maybe you can have someone read it for you.

I don't blame you.
post #96 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adjei View Post

I don't have time to go insulting you on the internet as you seem to do and go and judge your education level. I don't blame you, we're on the internet where anything can be said, I bet you couldn't say half of that crap in my face, nonsense.

Wow !!!! An Internet threat. Why am I not surprised. Well, considering your nonesensical and totally irrelevant posts, this is right on par for someone of your mentality. Rather than try and prove me wrong in my replies, you resort to saying I work for Nokia. Do you really expect anyone to take you seriously or have you resigned yourself to "loser status" and are happy to take up bandwidth? Maybe you're ADHD. Look into this. Or maybe you are from Alaska.

Your arguements against memory cards descened into you resorting to minutia and changing topics than making a well thought out arguement. Maybe it's simply that you have problems with thinking. Who knows. Not to mention that you have problems with reading user manuals. There seems to be some serious personal issues here. You might want to get back on your meds. Anyway, you can have the last word here. I would hate to trigger an OCD episode on your part.
post #97 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superbass View Post

Devices made before the SDHC format (also known as SD 2.0) replaced SD 1.0 don't officially support SDHC, although most SDHC cards do indeed work fine on older, SD capable devices. (since companies didn't test the old products with modern cards, they can't officially support them as it would make them liable in warranty claims)

The SDHC format has a maximum theoretical capacity of 2TB, so any product you buy today that supports SDHC will work with 2TB cards when they become available in 2012 or so...

Um, lets not get ahead of ourselves. It's highly doubtful that any product today will support anything more than a 32 GB SDHC card due to the undoubted electrical specification changes that'll happen to support 32+ GB. Ie, today's SDHC 2.0 devices will not support anything more than 32 GB.

But memory capacity isn't necessarily the crux of the issue. The presence of an SD/SDHC card is a usability nightmare. It might not be if the OS is capable of presenting multiple storage devices (the onboard storage + memory card) as one storage device, but as of today, users have to work to navigate to the data on different storage devices. That aint Apple. To top that off, having more than 1 SD/SDHC cards makes it an even more difficult usability problem. Only specialists need apply in situations where 2 or 3 or 4 cards are needed.

Apple's strategy has a capacity limitation, but it's a more usable device. There's enough memory there to satisfy 90% of the consumers who want the device. The continuous upgrade cycle is also a good market strategy for them, and it's not really that horrible of one to the consumer. They ship a 16 GB iPhone and a 32 GB iPod touch. Both these models will be waterfalled down the line and a 32 GB iPhone and 64 GB iPod touch model will be available in the next 4 months or so. This planned obsolescence strategy is a good one as they undoubtedly make much more money from users replacing devices compared to lost device sales due to the lack of SD card slot. The percentage of users who would rather buy a more storage as compared to buying a new device? I bet negligibly small. Way too small to go after.

Think about it. A 64 GB microSDHC card is at least 2 to 3 years away. Presuming today's phone can support more than 32 GB, a user has the choice of buying the increased storage or buying a new device at least 2 generations better. That's got to be a vanishingly small number of people who would rather keep the existing device and buy more storage. Apple's market strategy is correct, forget them.

Now, we've got issues not offering a hard drive based iPhone and iPod touch, but that's another thread.
post #98 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by THT View Post

Um, lets not get ahead of ourselves. It's highly doubtful that any product today will support anything more than a 32 GB SDHC card due to the undoubted electrical specification changes that'll happen to support 32+ GB. Ie, today's SDHC 2.0 devices will not support anything more than 32 GB.

But memory capacity isn't necessarily the crux of the issue. The presence of an SD/SDHC card is a usability nightmare. It might not be if the OS is capable of presenting multiple storage devices (the onboard storage + memory card) as one storage device, but as of today, users have to work to navigate to the data on different storage devices. That aint Apple. To top that off, having more than 1 SD/SDHC cards makes it an even more difficult usability problem. Only specialists need apply in situations where 2 or 3 or 4 cards are needed.

Apple's strategy has a capacity limitation, but it's a more usable device. There's enough memory there to satisfy 90% of the consumers who want the device. The continuous upgrade cycle is also a good market strategy for them, and it's not really that horrible of one to the consumer. They ship a 16 GB iPhone and a 32 GB iPod touch. Both these models will be waterfalled down the line and a 32 GB iPhone and 64 GB iPod touch model will be available in the next 4 months or so. This planned obsolescence strategy is a good one as they undoubtedly make much more money from users replacing devices compared to lost device sales due to the lack of SD card slot. The percentage of users who would rather buy a more storage as compared to buying a new device? I bet negligibly small. Way too small to go after.

Think about it. A 64 GB microSDHC card is at least 2 to 3 years away. Presuming today's phone can support more than 32 GB, a user has the choice of buying the increased storage or buying a new device at least 2 generations better. That's got to be a vanishingly small number of people who would rather keep the existing device and buy more storage. Apple's market strategy is correct, forget them.

Now, we've got issues not offering a hard drive based iPhone and iPod touch, but that's another thread.

Wrong:

http://www.intomobile.com/2008/02/24...nokia-n95.html

Where did you get your info?
post #99 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by genericposts View Post

Wrong:

http://www.intomobile.com/2008/02/24...nokia-n95.html

Where did you get your info?

This doesn't say anything about an N95 supporting a 2 TB microSD card. It's just a news item saying that the N95 can support a 16 GB microSDHC card, even though Nokia advertises that it only supports 8 GB cards. The author than says the SDHC standard theoretically supports up to 2 terabytes. Wow! ISure, it can theoretically support 2 TB.

But current phones only support microSDHC cards up to 32 GB because the SDHC standards body is limiting SDHC support to 32 GB, even though it can support more. There's a lot of good reasons for doing this. One of them is the standards body is likely holding back because they want to increase the transfer rate for cards above 32 GB, and probably have a new limit of 256 GB. They may want to change the form factor as well.
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