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Nokia answers iPhone's blows with its first touchscreen phone - Page 2

post #41 of 142
10/3/08 at 3:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MLP View Post

I wish the 3rd gen iPhone will have an e2e (edge to edge) screen that spans the entire front space of the iPhone. Why can't Apple place the home button at the right side of the phone and the earpiece on the chrome rim? This will allow a large 5" screen that makes video watching, game playing and web surfing much more enjoyable!

Where would the speakers, headphone jack, sim tray and microphone go? They use quite a lot of space, which is why the screen isn't the whole display. iPhone would have to be much thicker at the top and bottom to accommodate the combined thickness of the display plus the components currently in the black space.
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post #42 of 142
10/3/08 at 4:18am
This 'Comes with music' thing is BS and will never take off. The fact is that subscrtion based music will never take off. If people really wanted that then Napster would be the kings not Itunes. Ncie try Nokia but it will take more than this to knock iphone of its perch.

Also we should bear in mind that the 5800 is not the flagshipfor S60 touch. That will come soon but at that point im sure the iphone next gen phone will once again wipe the floor with all.
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post #43 of 142
10/3/08 at 4:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AHeneen View Post

Did you people read the article? :???

What part of Winterspan's resistive touchscreen" implies that you can't use your finger? The iPhone is so innovative for many is the use of a capacitance touchscreen. The resistive touchscreen, what all typical stylus based smartphones use and Winterspan compared it to with his "aka" statement, offers less options to the user simply because you do have to physically press the screen to register an input. Just being able to use a finger doesn't mean it's the same experience as the iPhone's patented capacitance touchscreen display.
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post #44 of 142
10/3/08 at 4:53am
What's the worts that could come from

- Apple makes some NEEDED changes, and makes them Sooner then later
- Apple makes available the "Inexpensive iPhone" sooner then later

A BASIC Iphone at $109.00 ish, will blow the doors off of most anything else that could come down the pike.
- Making this basic model available to any company that wants to sell them
- Making it work on as many networks as possible

Because Apple knows, if they get you to purchase a basic model anything, it will be just a matter of time, before you buy up to the next best model, and then up to the best model.

But ALL of this will need to happen sooner then later, as most of us know, once you have a contract, well, you won't be buying anything else until the contract is done.

Now there is always the chance that Apple is content with just a small part of the High-end phone sales, in which case, all of the above is for not, but I believe Apple is looking for as much as they can get and have, as quick as they can have it. And based on that, I believe some of what I said above will come true sooner then later.

S
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post #45 of 142
10/3/08 at 4:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncee View Post

A BASIC Iphone at $109.00 ish, will blow the doors off of most anything else that could come down the pike.
- Making this basic model available to any company that wants to sell them
- Making it work on as many networks as possible

Because Apple knows, if they get you to purchase a basic model anything, it will be just a matter of time, before you buy up to the next best model, and then up to the best model.

Apple won't make this "Basic" model, as unlike the iPod, there isn't the profit they demand in this area
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post #46 of 142
10/3/08 at 5:12am
I think one interesting point people (in the US and Europe) are neglecting in playing up this new phone...This phone wont even be available for 4-6months. Comparing it against the iPhone as it stands misses the point. While its unlikely any major hardware changes will come in that time (a memory size bump is possible I suppose) do you think Apple and its carriers are gonna remain flat footed against something they can see coming a mile away? They will add features to the software, changes subscription rate pricing, etc. to deal with these new phones, and due to the excellent software model and relatively high pricing, they have a LOT of ability to move quickly in both of the aforementioned areas.

Businesses try to pace themselves and innovations. Even if they are able to deliver a product that is 10x better than their competition, they usually scale it back and deliver a 2-3x advantage so that they have a "management reserve" to deal with unforeseen competition. They could have added many more features to the iPhone already and maybe cut costs in half, but they havent needed to yet.

Competition is good, and while the new Nokia doesnt have any appeal to me as ease of use is as important as capability, more competition will mean Apple has to give us even more.
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post #47 of 142
10/3/08 at 5:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncee View Post

What's the worts that could come from

- Apple makes some NEEDED changes, and makes them Sooner then later
- Apple makes available the "Inexpensive iPhone" sooner then later

A BASIC Iphone at $109.00 ish, will blow the doors off of most anything else that could come down the pike.

There is certainly a large group that want to combine an iPod and their phone, but don't want the internet side of things, but Apple won't cater to them so soon as it doesn't look like the iPhone saturation point has been met. Once that happens we'll surely see a new iPhone model that targets a different market segment, like we did with the iPod Mini.

A $100 iPhone won't happen. There just isn't any profit there. The 8GB iPod Nano costs $149. Imagine a $200$250 iPhone Nano that is a basic cellphone with the Nano media player thrown in. This could be subsidized by the carrier making it free for a two year contract, but if I were Apple I'd making any partners agree to only sell it for full price without a contract or at ~$100 with only a one-year contract to help spur new sales with the next revision.
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post #48 of 142
10/3/08 at 5:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by genericposts View Post


The Comes with Music thing will be a hit. DRM free music, able to trasfer it to any device, is an instant hit. Even Amazon is showing great signs of promise. iTunes DRM days may be numbered if they do not start offering DRM free music. As there are several DRM removal scenarios available for iTunes purchased music, and hopefully one coming for video media as well, the 5800 is poised to jump right in the face of Apple in terms of content management, and user experience.

Interesting times are coming.

Just throwing this out there, but there is iTunes Plus, which is DRM free music... It may cost a little more money, but it is available as an option. This is something Apple openly supported earlier this year, encouraging the recording industry to generally turn away from DRM.
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post #49 of 142
10/3/08 at 6:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChronoFlare View Post

Just throwing this out there, but there is iTunes Plus, which is DRM free music... It may cost a little more money, but it is available as an option. This is something Apple openly supported earlier this year, encouraging the recording industry to generally turn away from DRM.

Of course, remembering that most of the music available on iTunes isn't DRM free
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post #50 of 142
10/3/08 at 6:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by genericposts View Post

The Comes with Music thing will be a hit. DRM free music, able to trasfer it to any device, is an instant hit. Even Amazon is showing great signs of promise. iTunes DRM days may be numbered if they do not start offering DRM free music. As there are several DRM removal scenarios available for iTunes purchased music, and hopefully one coming for video media as well, the 5800 is poised to jump right in the face of Apple in terms of content management, and user experience. Not to mention the ability to run applications in the background, the already massive applications portfolio, and the ability to install anything without having to have it blessed by Apple. This phone and subsequent offerings will appeal to the seemingly millions that have no desire to purchase an iPhone. It has to be noted that not everyone wants one and one again, this phone and its follow ups will fill this void, and Nokia will most likely increase its market share.

Interesting times are coming.

No it wont. Do you really think this is going to challange itunes? Firstly so many people download music illegally this wont even make a dent. Secondly subscription services for music isnt the way forward. Otherwise something like napster would be top of the pile not this.
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post #51 of 142
10/3/08 at 6:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bavlondon2 View Post

This 'Comes with music' thing is BS and will never take off. The fact is that subscrtion based music will never take off. If people really wanted that then Napster would be the kings not Itunes. Ncie try Nokia but it will take more than this to knock iphone of its perch.

Did you read the article? The comes with music service is a one year "all you can download" service with a apparently high monthly cap. Once your first year of service is up, you are allowed to keep your music. It is not subscription music that will expire once you stop renewing your subscription.

If it really works as described, this has the potential to radically shake up the music industry. I had subscription music for a while and liked it - though the Windows subscription format was buggy to say the least. Now add that ability to pick and choose the music you want and then keeping it. I see this as being a hit.
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post #52 of 142
10/3/08 at 8:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Of course, remembering that most of the music available on iTunes isn't DRM free

Correct, but I just mean to point out that historically Apple isn't completely against the idea of DRM free music.
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post #53 of 142
10/3/08 at 8:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChronoFlare View Post

Correct, but I just mean to point out that historically Apple isn't completely against the idea of DRM free music.

But someone is against the idea of Apple providing all their msuic DRM free.
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post #54 of 142
10/3/08 at 8:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

But someone is against the idea of Apple providing all their msuic DRM free.

All the major record labels, sans EMI.
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post #55 of 142
10/3/08 at 8:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

I never liked Nokia, their phones are boring. Sony Ericsson have much better phones than Nokia.

Lets be honest here -- Sony Ericsson had good devices 2 years ago but has no chances to fight Nokia or Samsung with current portfolio
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post #56 of 142
10/3/08 at 8:25am
Yawn thrown this is with the other iphone clones.
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post #57 of 142
10/3/08 at 8:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmike View Post

The single fact that you have to use a stylus (other than being unoriginal) makes this thing lame.

That's not correct. You don't have to use a stylus. Using a stylus is just one of possible input methods.
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post #58 of 142
10/3/08 at 9:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by genericposts View Post

Right now it appears that the only real advantage the iPhone has going for it is the screen.

Hardly. I don't have to be an Apple fan to recognize that the iPhone works as a package and there is nothing close to it right now. But it truly shines through it's OS, not its screen.
I love competition and look forward to better things to come.

IMHO The closest thing to the iPhone OS will be Android and both platforms are well positioned for rapid improvements that can't be matched by old-school OS's like WM or certainly not Symbian.

Those will go by the way-side or down into the very low-margin budget phone territory.

Btw. I have used Nokia phones and always loved them for their reliability and great reception, but that was then and this is now. Better specs don't make a better multi-media device.

I have yet to see that Nokia can change their culture away to a more software-centric environment. So far, they appear to be slow on the uptake...
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post #59 of 142
10/3/08 at 10:01am
When Apple presented iPhone, they casted the "iPhone guy", showing the real iPhone experience on video. I watched it, and months later when I got to try the iPhone the experience was matching the video. I was amazed. Never before (for me) has a product presentation lived up to its acclaims before.

This Nokia phone sports a typical Nokia presentation. Flashy rotating phones with on screen mockup interface animation. Nokia have never managed to deliver a smooth user flow with their newer phones. It just never feels solid. I guess if they tried to get someone using the interface on video they wouldn't be able to match Apple's iPhone guy at all, by far. It's probably like running windows 3.11 without the correct graphics driver or something just like their other phones.. Or maybe they've finally learned? hehe.
(I actually like Nokia. But I think they screw up the day they designed their first color screen phone, and evern worse the day they went Symbian..)
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post #60 of 142
10/3/08 at 11:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfman View Post

Hardly. I don't have to be an Apple fan to recognize that the iPhone works as a package and there is nothing close to it right now. But it truly shines through it's OS, not its screen.
I love competition and look forward to better things to come.

If by complete package you mean, a device that is missing functions the a basic phone has, then yes the iPhone is a complete package
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post #61 of 142
10/3/08 at 11:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfman View Post

Hardly. I don't have to be an Apple fan to recognize that the iPhone works as a package and there is nothing close to it right now. But it truly shines through it's OS, not its screen.
I love competition and look forward to better things to come.

IMHO The closest thing to the iPhone OS will be Android and both platforms are well positioned for rapid improvements that can't be matched by old-school OS's like WM or certainly not Symbian.

Those will go by the way-side or down into the very low-margin budget phone territory.

Btw. I have used Nokia phones and always loved them for their reliability and great reception, but that was then and this is now. Better specs don't make a better multi-media device.

I have yet to see that Nokia can change their culture away to a more software-centric environment. So far, they appear to be slow on the uptake...

The problem with Nokia is that they are trying their hands by trying to create single user interface on all their phones whether it is touch or buttons navigation based. The most expensive Nokia phone uses the same basic graphics, navigation menus, and icons as the cheapest one.
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post #62 of 142
10/3/08 at 11:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

If by complete package you mean, a device that is missing functions the a basic phone has, then yes the iPhone is a complete package

Maybe it is about time some features are removed from phones and replaced by better ones. The same way the floppy drive, serial, and parallel connections were removed and replaced by USB ports. I remember the outrage when Apple removed these years back and now everyone else is doing it.
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post #63 of 142
10/3/08 at 11:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

If by complete package you mean, a device that is missing functions the a basic phone has, then yes the iPhone is a complete package

So by not having everything that every device before it has ever had it can't be complete in its own right?


Quote:
Originally Posted by genericposts View Post

Right now it appears that the only real advantage the iPhone has going for it is the screen.

'Only' is an absolute term. I can think of many advantages to the iPhone, even the aesthetics and marketing are advantages to consider when talking about a consumer product.

But if the [I]only[/I ]advantage was its capacitance touchscreen, that is huge advantage that isn't yet match on either the HW or the SW side of things. You can't just plop an iPhone touchscreen into a phone and expect to get the same results. It has to do with many years of designing a proper mobile OS and frameworks and all the UI elements that give the iPhone's touchscreen it's signature look and appeal. Plus, it's the primary input for the device so it's pretty important to get it right. People scoffed at the mouse, too.
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post #64 of 142
10/3/08 at 1:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

Maybe it is about time some features are removed from phones and replaced by better ones. The same way the floppy drive, serial, and parallel connections were removed and replaced by USB ports. I remember the outrage when Apple removed these years back and now everyone else is doing it.

What? Like basic bluetooth functionality? Or background applications, a basic function that is needed for the device to be taken seriously in a business environment
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post #65 of 142
10/3/08 at 1:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

What? Like basic bluetooth functionality? Or background applications, a basic function that is needed for the device to be taken seriously in a business environment

If the background apps the iPhone allows don't fit your needs then don't get an iPhone. There are pros and cons with every device depending on the customer. YOU CAN'T HAVE ONE DEVICE FIT EVERYONE'S NEEDS. The iPhone is not the 2nd coming of Christ. It is not the Jesus Phone. Note that Jesus doesn't fit everyone's religious needs. RiM sells to its market segment, the iPhone to its segment, Nokia to its segment. There is overlap, but they all serve their purpose.
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post #66 of 142
10/3/08 at 1:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

If the background apps the iPhone allows don't fit your needs then don't get an iPhone. There are pros and cons with every device depending on the customer. YOU CAN'T HAVE ONE DEVICE FIT EVERYONE'S NEEDS. The iPhone is not the 2nd coming of Christ. It is not the Jesus Phone. Note that Jesus doesn't fit everyone's religious needs. RiM markets to it's market segment, the iPhone to its segment, Nokia to it's segment. There is overlap, but they all serve their purpose.

Very true, it is a pity others share that view. The majority of people on this site think there is no other phone/mobile device that is as capable as the iPhone
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post #67 of 142
10/3/08 at 2:34pm
for the record, nokia is the largest cellphone manufacturer in the world; a position they arrived at by focusing solely on cell phones and abandoning other business units making everything from monitors to rubber. Apple, is spreading themselves thin. show of hands for everyone who thinks Apple
s computer division is being neglected. honestly. i would say Nokia knows a thing or two about cellphones.

being defensive about apple is one thing, but to presume that nokia has their head up their posterior is another. the 58xx series has been a low-to-mid range affordable phone with emphasis on music. this one is no different.

btw, i probably own more apple devices than most of you; so fanboys...save your breath.

and would it be too far from the truth to say that if everyone under the sun had an apple product / iphone, most of us eventually wouldn't want one.

lets give credit where credit is due, and not bitc* and moan about 'me too devices'
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post #68 of 142
10/3/08 at 3:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by yb1 View Post

for the record, nokia is the largest cellphone manufacturer in the world; a position they arrived at by focusing solely on cell phones and abandoning other business units making everything from monitors to rubber. Apple, is spreading themselves thin. show of hands for everyone who thinks Apple
s computer division is being neglected. honestly. i would say Nokia knows a thing or two about cellphones.

Note to Nokia fans, Nokia has 7% marketshare in the USA, and Appleinsider is a USA centric meesage forum. Nokia is like a has been here, maybe a never was in the USA. On top of that, there are few if any subsidized N-series phones here. They are all sold unsubsidized at astronomical $700+, and maybe after a year, at $400. Not only that, most of them don't support the HSDPA frequencies used in the USA, and obviously there's maybe only one or two el cheap or free CDMA phones available.

Quote:
being defensive about apple is one thing, but to presume that nokia has their head up their posterior is another. the 58xx series has been a low-to-mid range affordable phone with emphasis on music. this one is no different.

Of course Nokia knows a thing about cell phones, but something is wrong with their business model when their marketshare has shrunken from 20% to 7% in the USA over the last few years. On top of that, Apple is a very American company. Very US-centric in mentality. The Tube has a long way to go before it can dent the USA market.

If Nokia can't get the Tube subsidized, it's going to cost $300+ in the the USA, and that ain't no price for a low or mid-range phone.
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post #69 of 142
10/3/08 at 3:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerryn View Post

Did you read the article? The comes with music service is a one year "all you can download" service with a apparently high monthly cap. Once your first year of service is up, you are allowed to keep your music. It is not subscription music that will expire once you stop renewing your subscription.

If it really works as described, this has the potential to radically shake up the music industry. I had subscription music for a while and liked it - though the Windows subscription format was buggy to say the least. Now add that ability to pick and choose the music you want and then keeping it. I see this as being a hit.

TANSTAAFL. There aint no such thing as a free lunch. Inscribed that into your very soul.

If read up on the Comes with Music deal, it does have some limitations: the music has DRM and is limited to the purchased device and the computer in which you sync it too. If you buy a new device within a couple of years, the music can be transfered (and erased from the previous device). Nice incentive for buying new devices. After two years, the honeymoon is over, and you'll pay for the music again when you purchase a new mobile. Actually, the less than 2 year thing is strange to me too, since I would expect every CWM phone to have part of its revenue go to the music labels.

This is an interesting strategy to say the least. It's very phone centric and very Anti-Apple. I'm not sure how much I would trust it, but best of luck to Nokia.
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post #70 of 142
10/3/08 at 5:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by yb1 View Post

for the record, nokia is the largest cellphone manufacturer in the world; a position they arrived at by focusing solely on cell phones and abandoning other business units making everything from monitors to rubber. Apple, is spreading themselves thin. show of hands for everyone who thinks Apple
s computer division is being neglected. honestly. i would say Nokia knows a thing or two about cellphones.

being defensive about apple is one thing, but to presume that nokia has their head up their posterior is another. the 58xx series has been a low-to-mid range affordable phone with emphasis on music. this one is no different.

btw, i probably own more apple devices than most of you; so fanboys...save your breath.

and would it be too far from the truth to say that if everyone under the sun had an apple product / iphone, most of us eventually wouldn't want one.

lets give credit where credit is due, and not bitc* and moan about 'me too devices'

Your first post here is to insult the "fanboys" and declare yourself the expert?

Classy.
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post #71 of 142
10/3/08 at 5:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Your first post here is to insult the "fanboys" and declare yourself the expert?

Classy.

Maybe the delivery is wrong but it does not make his info invalid. I notice that you did not jump on those other "classy" Appleistas (I borrowed this word from someone in this or another thread but it is appropriate for some) that carry the Apple banner.

If you are going to comment on one, you need to comment on the others to remain balanced.
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post #72 of 142
10/3/08 at 5:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Very true, it is a pity others share that view. The majority of people on this site think there is no other phone/mobile device that is as capable as the iPhone

Great post.
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post #73 of 142
10/3/08 at 7:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

If by complete package you mean, a device that is missing functions the a basic phone has, then yes the iPhone is a complete package

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

What? Like basic bluetooth functionality? Or background applications, a basic function that is needed for the device to be taken seriously in a business environment

In the your first post you said it lacks basic phone features while in the next one you relate those features to business use! Basic phones are not usually business friendly. We all know that every phone is missing few features. It is what important that counts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Very true, it is a pity others share that view. The majority of people on this site think there is no other phone/mobile device that is as capable as the iPhone

You forget to mention that there are as many people here who insist on considering the iPhone (actually every Apple product) a failure because it is missing some features while praising other phones that misses much more.
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post #74 of 142
10/4/08 at 3:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

In the your first post you said it lacks basic phone features while in the next one you relate those features to business use! Basic phones are not usually business friendly. We all know that every phone is missing few features. It is what important that counts.

Well actually you are wrong. There are a number of basic phones that have things like BT, or IRDA, which can be used to tether a device to the phone for data (say for SFA applications).

Also, for most business users, the companies want them to have basic features, the majority don't need data, don't need a fancy interface, don't need installable applications. They need a device that can make phones calls, and receive text messages. They don't like them spending unnecessary money.

Why don't they write that app for the iphone then I hear you say, hmm, background applications work really well when someone rings you...

Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

You forget to mention that there are as many people here who insist on considering the iPhone (actually every Apple product) a failure because it is missing some features while praising other phones that misses much more.

I consider the iPhone a failure in the same way i consider Apple screwing up their other products, especially in Europe, they try and continue with an American sales method, which doesn't work here
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post #75 of 142
10/4/08 at 4:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by THT View Post

Note to Nokia fans, Nokia has 7% marketshare in the USA, and Appleinsider is a USA centric meesage forum. Nokia is like a has been here, maybe a never was in the USA. On top of that, there are few if any subsidized N-series phones here. They are all sold unsubsidized at astronomical $700+, and maybe after a year, at $400. Not only that, most of them don't support the HSDPA frequencies used in the USA, and obviously there's maybe only one or two el cheap or free CDMA phones available.

You mean similar to that fact that Apple has next to no marketshare outside the USA? It is been like that for a long time, and will continue to be like that until Apple learns how to adapt to other markets properly.

As for Nokia, and CDMA phones, have a read up about Qualcomm, and their anti-competive practices.


Quote:
Originally Posted by THT View Post

Of course Nokia knows a thing about cell phones, but something is wrong with their business model when their marketshare has shrunken from 20% to 7% in the USA over the last few years. On top of that, Apple is a very American company. Very US-centric in mentality. The Tube has a long way to go before it can dent the USA market.

If Nokia can't get the Tube subsidized, it's going to cost $300+ in the the USA, and that ain't no price for a low or mid-range phone.

ok, let's look at some stats shall we...

http://www.gsmworld.com/news/statist...tats_q2_08.pdf
http://www.gsmworld.com/documents/20_year_factsheet.pdf

ok, on the first link subscriber connections Q2 2008

GSM 80.79%, including HSPA varieties, 85%

Could be one reason not to flock to CDMA2000 etc...

USA/Canada 7.65% of the connections...

wow, big market there, I think Apple has more to be worried about than Nokia has.

Asia/Pacific is the market to go for, and another market Apple struggles in, the phones are over priced for the majority of people, and the plans associated with them are either too expensive, or too low for the data caps.

Look at the second link, especially the YoY growth. Huge growth there for the USA compared to the other markets (especially China), Nokia already has a good handle on the practice of providing networks with branded phones (as terrible as the concept is), how is Apple in that arena (well they will drop features as AT&T ask I suppose)
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post #76 of 142
10/4/08 at 4:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

I consider the iPhone a failure in the same way i consider Apple screwing up their other products, especially in Europe, they try and continue with an American sales method, which doesn't work here

I am with you here. I work for a large American company which has me based in here in Europe and I can say that Apple is very short sighted in their biz models when it comes to Europe. What works in the US does not always translate to what will work in Europe. Nokia it seems understands this by not spending too much time and effort in the US. Nokia will concentrate on other markets that have a similar European strategy, and they will make their money there. As you mentioned, the basic phone has the ability to do things that the iPhone simply can not do, and in some cases, vice versa. Apple can not seriously consider the iPhone an Enterprise phone with the way it is configured. It is a great media device that happens to make phone calls. Nothing more, nothing less.
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post #77 of 142
10/4/08 at 4:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post


As for Nokia, and CDMA phones, have a read up about Qualcomm, and their anti-competive practices.

Qualcomm practices brought about GSM. The Europeans were not going to license their tech, so they created their own.
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post #78 of 142
10/4/08 at 9:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

You mean similar to that fact that Apple has next to no marketshare outside the USA? It is been like that for a long time, and will continue to be like that until Apple learns how to adapt to other markets properly.

Sure. But it's a matter of perspective with Apple's USA bread and butter and Nokia indifference to the USA. Apple is only going for 1% or 2% marketshare. The profitable, higher end of the market. If relegated to "smartphone" marketshare, they are trying for about 15%.

But the matter at hand is how is Nokia going to dent Apple? They aren't and the Tube aint going to do it for many business reasons. Nokia has 7% marketshare in the USA, they refuse to offer more than a fraction of their phone portfolio here, and they apparently can't or won't make deals with American carriers.

How in the world is the Tube going to change that? It probably won't be sold in the USA until Summer of 2009. Not only that, they are offering music subscription service that only allows consumers to play the music on CWM registered devices, have decided to play with the devil by paying music labels for every CWM device sold (that doesn't sound like a good precedent to me), and "your" music goes poof if CWM dies.

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As for Nokia, and CDMA phones, have a read up about Qualcomm, and their anti-competive practices.

ok, let's look at some stats shall we...

http://www.gsmworld.com/news/statist...tats_q2_08.pdf
http://www.gsmworld.com/documents/20_year_factsheet.pdf

ok, on the first link subscriber connections Q2 2008

GSM 80.79%, including HSPA varieties, 85%

Could be one reason not to flock to CDMA2000 etc...

USA/Canada 7.65% of the connections...

wow, big market there, I think Apple has more to be worried about than Nokia has.

Asia/Pacific is the market to go for, and another market Apple struggles in, the phones are over priced for the majority of people, and the plans associated with them are either too expensive, or too low for the data caps.

Look at the second link, especially the YoY growth. Huge growth there for the USA compared to the other markets (especially China), Nokia already has a good handle on the practice of providing networks with branded phones (as terrible as the concept is), how is Apple in that arena (well they will drop features as AT&T ask I suppose)

I don't give a flying fig about CDMA versus GSM. I was just commenting on Nokia's lack of effort in the USA. There's a reason most of the board don't really know about or care about Nokia. It's amply demonstrated with the 7% marketshare figure (a downward trend too). It's amply demonstrated with Nokia only offering a small fraction of their portfolio through American carriers, selling N-series phones unsubsidized, and not even trying for the CDMA market (which is half the market, but I understand the business reason for not doing so).

Samsung, LG and Motorola are better regarded here among consumers, let alone RIM.
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post #79 of 142
10/4/08 at 10:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by THT View Post

Sure. But it's a matter of perspective with Apple's USA bread and butter and Nokia indifference to the USA. Apple is only going for 1% or 2% marketshare. The profitable, higher end of the market. If relegated to "smartphone" marketshare, they are trying for about 15%.

But the matter at hand is how is Nokia going to dent Apple? They aren't and the Tube aint going to do it for many business reasons. Nokia has 7% marketshare in the USA, they refuse to offer more than a fraction of their phone portfolio here, and they apparently can't or won't make deals with American carriers.

How in the world is the Tube going to change that? It probably won't be sold in the USA until Summer of 2009. Not only that, they are offering music subscription service that only allows consumers to play the music on CWM registered devices, have decided to play with the devil by paying music labels for every CWM device sold (that doesn't sound like a good precedent to me), and "your" music goes poof if CWM dies.



I don't give a flying fig about CDMA versus GSM. I was just commenting on Nokia's lack of effort in the USA. There's a reason most of the board don't really know about or care about Nokia. It's amply demonstrated with the 7% marketshare figure (a downward trend too). It's amply demonstrated with Nokia only offering a small fraction of their portfolio through American carriers, selling N-series phones unsubsidized, and not even trying for the CDMA market (which is half the market, but I understand the business reason for not doing so).

Samsung, LG and Motorola are better regarded here among consumers, let alone RIM.

You make a lot of sense but as far as Nokia is concerned, I would not waste much time on the US as well. If I can still sell phones there (probably still more than Apple. Not sure but someone will be more than happy here to rush to Apple's defense) and make a profit why put a lot of time and resources in a highly fragmented market. On any given day, Nokia out sells RIM, LG, Moto, Samsung and SE combine (close to it for sure) so if they can get more of the market than anyone else with not as much effort, why not. I am quite sure that if Nokia saw real sales potential in the US, they would make a earnest effort in generating sales.

The difference between the Tube (5800 Express) and the iPhone is that the Tube fulfills the phone part to a higher degree than the iPhone. It will be interesting to see if Apple makes a real attempt to make the iPhone more "phone" like. Simple things like tethering, or VoIP over GSM/3G would make a huge impact.
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post #80 of 142
10/4/08 at 11:51am
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Originally Posted by genericposts View Post

You make a lot of sense but as far as Nokia is concerned, I would not waste much time on the US as well. If I can still sell phones there (probably still more than Apple. Not sure but someone will be more than happy here to rush to Apple's defense) and make a profit why put a lot of time and resources in a highly fragmented market. On any given day, Nokia out sells RIM, LG, Moto, Samsung and SE combine (close to it for sure) so if they can get more of the market than anyone else with not as much effort, why not. I am quite sure that if Nokia saw real sales potential in the US, they would make a earnest effort in generating sales.

No need to rationalize Nokia's poor performance in the USA nor any reason to go insulting the cell phone market in the USA.

Quote:
The difference between the Tube (5800 Express) and the iPhone is that the Tube fulfills the phone part to a higher degree than the iPhone. It will be interesting to see if Apple makes a real attempt to make the iPhone more "phone" like. Simple things like tethering, or VoIP over GSM/3G would make a huge impact.

VOIP (over WiFi) is already available as a 3rd party app for the iPhone. Tethering and bandwidth hogging apps are still hampered by the limitations of the cell networks. Tethering will likely become available eventually, but it'll come at least an additional $15/month cost.

But as has been talked about time and again, Apple is a 90% company when it comes to features. They choose the features that are the most useful to people, make it easy and fun to use, and market it as such. The features that are rarely used or are of limited usefulness, or sometimes, features that are against Apple's strategic goals, aren't supported. The strategy works as is demonstrated by Apple's success. So the answer to your musing is pretty much, no. They'll always trail in the spec shootouts.
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